Audit The Fed Vote Proves Democrats are Liars

[Hedgology]

It's tax payers money going to the gov't. Why shouldn't there be an audit of the whole dang shebang?

If they have nothing to hide then they should say go ahead. We should know how they handle the currency and money of this country.

Yes............they should be audited.

The Federal Reserve isn't funded by government.

They control our currency..............which is a countries currency...........so screw them...

Audit their asses.

That's not correct. The Fed influences currency via interest rates.

It's a nations currency they are influencing.............so sorry.........we would like to make sure you aren't double dealing with a nations currency with your influence.

Audit them.

That doesn't make any sense; and probably one of the many reasons why we don't want just anyone messing around with monetary policy.

 

[eagle1462010]

It's tax payers money going to the gov't. Why shouldn't there be an audit of the whole dang shebang?

If they have nothing to hide then they should say go ahead. We should know how they handle the currency and money of this country.

Yes............they should be audited.

The Federal Reserve isn't funded by government.

They control our currency..............which is a countries currency...........so screw them...

Audit their asses.

That's not correct. The Fed influences currency via interest rates.

It's a nations currency they are influencing.............so sorry.........we would like to make sure you aren't double dealing with a nations currency with your influence.

Audit them.

That doesn't make any sense; and probably one of the many reasons why we don't want just anyone messing around with monetary policy.

Those auditing would be experts in the field.................and why just anyone messing with our monetary policy

Excuse me............but thanks for the reason for experts to audit them.

 

[Hedgology]

The Federal Reserve isn't funded by government.

They control our currency..............which is a countries currency...........so screw them...

Audit their asses.

That's not correct. The Fed influences currency via interest rates.

It's a nations currency they are influencing.............so sorry.........we would like to make sure you aren't double dealing with a nations currency with your influence.

Audit them.

That doesn't make any sense; and probably one of the many reasons why we don't want just anyone messing around with monetary policy.

Those auditing would be experts in the field.................and why just anyone messing with our monetary policy

Excuse me............but thanks for the reason for experts to audit them.

You're confused…

It's not the auditing process that is the problem; it's what happens after the audit. Preventing the GAO, the auditing arm of Congress, from second guessing monetary policy decisions is a way of insulating monetary policy from political influence. As I've mentioned previously, political pressures shaping monetary policy is bad for economic growth. There is tons of economic data supporting this conclusion.

I think I've already said that; not that I expected you to understand, at this point…

 

[NightFox]

The NY Fed publishes details on the Fed's Open Market Operations, both temporary and permanent, as well as their discount window operations. These are regularly audited .

The Fed doesn't really engage in lending facilities, but even when it did, the Term Auction Facility (TAF), Primary Dealer Credit Facility (PDCF), and Term Securities Lending Facility (TSLF) were the only tools at their disposal, which was regularly reviewed during the financial crisis when it was utilized.

Again, I'm not sure what you think isn't regularly reviewed, but the only activities that are not audited (by law) are monetary policy operations and transactions carried out by the Fed on behalf of other central banks.

So you're arguing that the Fed is already audited but not fully audited? Yeah that's been my assertion all along, welcome aboard.

The fact that you have a difficult time telling me what should be audited tells me you don't have a good grasp on how central banks operate

I don't have a difficult time with anything or than understanding your reluctance to go read the bill that you're opposing, if you're asking me to generate cliff notes for you then you're going to be sorely disappointed since that effort would not yield an attractive value proposition.

Monetary policy is politicized because central banks don't want you to review complicated matters? Do you know what the word politicized means?

Do you understand what the word means? what do you call the series of Audit the Fed bills that have been introduced in Congress over the last 5 or so years, what do you call a Rasmussen Poll (2013) that indicates that 74% of the American People support a full audit of the fed with the results being made available to the public? Hate to break this to you but it's only a matter of time before the Audit the Fed bill DOES pass..

OR, maybe the Fed doesn't what you to see their secrets is because, historically, in capitalist economies, elected leadership have set the objectives of central banks. There is already a ton of evidence, backed up by economic research, that giving politicians power over interest rates and the supply of credit hurts the economy over time. This is because politicians, who only favor re-election, prefer more growth now, even if it means tons of inflation later on.

Politicians and their appointees ALREADY have it, how do you think the Executive Branch in collusion with certain members of Congress were able to lean on the Fed to relax lending standards which was one of the principle culprits in the last catastrophe (2008)? Who appoints the Fed governors? Do you think that Fed is currently answerable to Congress? Apparently you want to keep the political influence that already exists over monetary policy back in the smoke filled rooms rather than being *GASP* subjected to the review of the peasantry that can't possibly grasp the complicated sorcery of the high priests in the central bank are up to.

Given your sentiment, it doesn't really sound like you have a high aptitude for economies. Considering this, I have no interest in allowing the fed to give you, and the rest of people who think like you, access to information that is well above your pay grade.

Your arrogance certainly explains why you'd defend an institution like the Fed from scrutiny by the people that is was empowered to serve. One wonders if you ever deign to venture forth from your Ivory Tower to survey the actual results of the system you're trying so hard to protect.

 

[Centinel]

Most likely because we don't want our monetary operations politicized by the political hacks who don't understand monetary policy.

When the several sovereign states came together and established their union, they gave it a small specific set of powers. These powers are enumerated in article I, section 8. Which of these enumerated powers allows congress to conduct "monetary policy"?

 

[Care4all]

was the bill asking for a monthly full audit of the fed? If it was, then that is what could be dangerous in this day and age.... the Partisan rhetoric and actions of Congress depending on election year or a President they like or don't like and all that political garbage, is what could hurt the whole system.....congress reviewing the audit monthly makes them more hands on, but I don't trust congress to do the right thing for us either and make this whole process political, and not in the best interest of the nation....or the World, which their actions would affect.

(just look how congress has handled our debt ceiling and caused our credit rating to go down, costing all of us tax payers more money each year because our credit rating is lower or in jeopardy of being lowered due to Congress's partisan incompetence)

NOT that I trust the Fed either...it's a catch 22

If Congress had not been such IDIOTS in their actions on monetary issues such as the debt ceiling and shown their cards of political parisanship previously, as they have done...I would probably be all for it. lock stock and barrel.

buttttt...I dunno if I trust the gvt gao as being an independent audit and congress having the ability to influence the fed on a monthly basis through their dog and pony shows and crapola before the world, and depending on how the political wind is blowing, making some critical decisions on our behalf.

Maybe a full audit once a year would be a good compromise?

 

[Hedgology]

So you're arguing that the Fed is already audited but not fully audited? Yeah that's been my assertion all along, welcome aboard.

Everything independent firms review is fully audited.

I don't have a difficult time with anything or than understanding your reluctance to go read the bill that you're opposing, if you're asking me to generate cliff notes for you then you're going to be sorely disappointed since that effort would not yield an attractive value proposition.

Your reluctance to tell me what you believe should be audited by the Federal Reserve, and its member banks, just tells me how little you know about what you are complaining about.

Do you understand what the word means? what do you call the series of Audit the Fed bills that have been introduced in Congress over the last 5 or so years, what do you call a Rasmussen Poll (2013) that indicates that 74% of the American People support a full audit of the fed with the results being made available to the public? Hate to break this to you but it's only a matter of time before the Audit the Fed bill DOES pass..

You're confused…

The politicization of monetary policy entails that FOMC policymakers enact favorable monetary decisions, depending upon which party controls congress or the white house. Currently, this isn't happening, and has never happened.

As for your claim about the 74% of American people who support a Fed audit, 76% people according to Pew Research don't even know who the current Fed Chairperson is.

But yeah, I care about their opinion on monetary policy…

Politicians and their appointees ALREADY have it,

I'll bite. How do politicians have power over interest rates and the supply of credit? No person who wanted to be taken seriously would ever make this claim.

how do you think the Executive Branch in collusion with certain members of Congress were able to lean on the Fed to relax lending standards which was one of the principle culprits in the last catastrophe (2008)? Who appoints the Fed governors? Do you think that Fed is currently answerable to Congress? Apparently you want to keep the political influence that already exists over monetary policy back in the smoke filled rooms rather than being *GASP* subjected to the review of the peasantry that can't possibly grasp the complicated sorcery of the high priests in the central bank are up to.

The Fed doesn't need to answer to Congress because that is how monetary policy remains objective and independent. Who appoints the Federal Board of Governors is relevant because monetary policy doesn't change based on who is currently in the White House. Over the past 15 years, we've had three Fed Chairmen under three different administrations, and monetary policy has virtually remained unchanged. This is because economics is a science, and the purpose of keeping the Fed and Congress separate is to separate science from political tomfoolery.

And lending standards has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve. I guess it's safe to assume you don't understand how banking works, either…

Your arrogance certainly explains why you'd defend an institution like the Fed from scrutiny by the people that is was empowered to serve. One wonders if you ever deign to venture forth from your Ivory Tower to survey the actual results of the system you're trying so hard to protect.

I want to take you seriously, but I'm having a difficult time. There are ways of sounding uninformed without sounding completely clueless.

 

[NightFox]

was the bill asking for a monthly full audit of the fed?

No, GAO audit to take place within 1 year of passage, findings and conclusions to be submitted to Congress within 90 days of completion.

 

[Hedgology]

Most likely because we don't want our monetary operations politicized by the political hacks who don't understand monetary policy.

When the several sovereign states came together and established their union, they gave it a small specific set of powers. These powers are enumerated in article I, section 8. Which of these enumerated powers allows congress to conduct "monetary policy"?

Congress enacts statutory objectives for monetary policy: full employment, price stability, and moderate long-term interest rates.

I've never argued that it should be up to Congress to determine how to achieve these ends.

 

[NightFox]

I want to take you seriously, but I'm having a difficult time. There are ways of sounding uninformed without sounding completely clueless.

*YAWN* naked arrogance is so boring, try your hand at doing it with some wit and maybe you'll manage to produce something of value.

Yeah I'd like to take you seriously too but I find that it's impossible to lend credence to someone that obviously spends so much time navel gazing that the day to day realities of society have become a complete mystery to 'em. Try not to get too apoplectic when the bill does eventually pass, the sun will still keep shining afterwards (it'll just be shining a bit brighter).

"The status quo sucks." -- George Carlin

 

[Care4all]

was the bill asking for a monthly full audit of the fed?

No, GAO audit to take place within 1 year of passage, findings and conclusions to be submitted to Congress within 90 days of completion.

ahhh, thank you, I should have paid more attention when skimming the op link article...

 

[NightFox]

ahhh, thank you, I should have paid more attention when skimming the op link article...

My Pleasure Madame.

 

[BluesLegend]

Only the private sector needs to be audited, government is to be trusted /sarcasm * infinity

 

[Centinel]

Congress enacts statutory objectives for monetary policy: full employment, price stability, and moderate long-term interest rates.

I've never argued that it should be up to Congress to determine how to achieve these ends.

None of congress' enumerated powers would allow it to enact such statutory objectives,

 

[imawhosure]

double post, sorry

 

[imawhosure]

The left wants to ignore the constitution on virtually every level, and in fact over ride it as much as possible until it needs to cite it, and then use it in error to prop up a straw man debate point.

Unless what is going on is "top secret," why is it more facts are bad, less facts are good, in the world according to some on the left?

 

[Mad Scientist]

I agree. It could be "dangerous" to know the who, what, when, where and why of our Nations Money Supply.

 

[Hedgology]

Congress enacts statutory objectives for monetary policy: full employment, price stability, and moderate long-term interest rates.

I've never argued that it should be up to Congress to determine how to achieve these ends.

None of congress' enumerated powers would allow it to enact such statutory objectives,

It already enumerated these objectives since the Fed's inception, so I don't understand what you are getting at.

 

[Centinel]

It already enumerated these objectives since the Fed's inception, so I don't understand what you are getting at.

Okay, let me back up a step or two.

When the states formed their union, they gave congress the power to create laws, but only laws stemming from certain delegaged powers. Congress' legislative powers are enumerated in article I, section 8 of the constitution.

Here are the legislative powers of congress:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

So if you peruse this list of legislative powers, you won't find any power to establish a federal reserve bank, or to establish statutory objectives for monetary policy.

Since the constitution grants congress no such legislative power, I am in favor of the federal reserve act and all related legislation to be repealed and the federal reserve dismantled and eliminated.

 

[Hedgology]

It already enumerated these objectives since the Fed's inception, so I don't understand what you are getting at.

Okay, let me back up a step or two.

When the states formed their union, they gave congress the power to create laws, but only laws stemming from certain delegaged powers. Congress' legislative powers are enumerated in article I, section 8 of the constitution.

Here are the legislative powers of congress:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

So if you peruse this list of legislative powers, you won't find any power to establish a federal reserve bank, or to establish statutory objectives for monetary policy.

It's not Congress's objective. It's the Fed's.

Since the constitution grants congress no such legislative power, I am in favor of the federal reserve act and all related legislation to be repealed and the federal reserve dismantled and eliminated.

That's not a very good reason…