Baker Who Won’t Make Cakes for Same-Sex Weddings Appeals Mandatory Re-Education Order

[dblack]

Both shouldn't be outlawed, except when government does it, but it still doesn't make them the same.

Well sure. But in the context of the conversation, they should be treated the same under the law, right?

Why? How does sexuality get lumped with race, and thus gets the same protection, while things like the fact I am fat, or ugly, or like Star Wars doesn't.

Those should all be treated the same. I'm just emphasizing that we have important agreement with folks like Seawytch, that this approach to law is stupid and should be changed.

Race had to have certain protections because of this countries history of it, in particular slavery. The only slavery I can connect to homosexuality is based on a fetish subset of the community, and was voluntary.

It think it could have been dealt with in other ways. This one was/is obviously problematic.

 

[martybegan]

That is pure conjecture. The laws are on the books and people sue. People sue when they are refused service because of their gender, race, religion and disability. It's not just the gays suing.

Either get rid of the laws that say I must serve you or add me to the list so you must serve me. It's that simple.

Its all about you, ain't it. and your dismissal of my point means you have no counter for it.

and now you are adding disability to it? Since when is that even remotely in the same discussion?

You know that disability is protected by law now too...you cannot refuse service based on a customer's disabilities either.

and as a basis, it was a good idea, but like Civil rights legislation it gets taken to absurdities. Having all hotels either put in chaiir lifts for their pools
or shut down their pools for everyone is an example of that absurdity.

Americans with Disabilities Act opens pools to disabled swimmers - CNN.com

 

[Seawytch]

It should be OK, as long as they don't work for the government.

And again, as much as you try to equate them, your race does not equal who you like to bugger.

And again, their interpretation of scripture was wrong. There is zero real reference to racism being acceptable in the bible. There is plenty of reference to homosexuality being unacceptable.

Finally, when it comes to non mandatory services such as wedding cakes and photography, the races have the good sense to not try to procure the services of people who don't want to do said service. They also have the infrastructure to take care of their own. Homosexuals don't have the numbers to pull that off, so you have to go outside your group to get some services. You also want the acceptance from non homosexuals, and thus the hissy fits and lawsuits.

That is pure conjecture. The laws are on the books and people sue. People sue when they are refused service because of their gender, race, religion and disability. It's not just the gays suing.

Either get rid of the laws that say I must serve you or add me to the list so you must serve me. It's that simple.

Its all about you, ain't it. and your dismissal of my point means you have no counter for it.

and now you are adding disability to it? Since when is that even remotely in the same discussion?

It's all about equality. If I can't legally discriminate against you, you shouldn't be able to legally discriminate against me. I can't refuse to serve a Christian, despite my deeply held beliefs about Christians, but you want them to be able to refuse to serve me. We should both be able to refuse to serve the other.

Disability is one of those minorities protected by Federal Public Accommodation laws, that's how.

 

[martybegan]

Well sure. But in the context of the conversation, they should be treated the same under the law, right?

Why? How does sexuality get lumped with race, and thus gets the same protection, while things like the fact I am fat, or ugly, or like Star Wars doesn't.

Those should all be treated the same. I'm just emphasizing that we have important agreement with folks like Seawytch, that this approach to law is stupid and should be changed.

Race had to have certain protections because of this countries history of it, in particular slavery. The only slavery I can connect to homosexuality is based on a fetish subset of the community, and was voluntary.

It think it could have been dealt with in other ways. This one was/is obviously problematic.

I don't truly believe Seawytch on the concept of removing PA laws. Again, to me she wants acceptance, not tolerance.

 

[martybegan]

That is pure conjecture. The laws are on the books and people sue. People sue when they are refused service because of their gender, race, religion and disability. It's not just the gays suing.

Either get rid of the laws that say I must serve you or add me to the list so you must serve me. It's that simple.

Its all about you, ain't it. and your dismissal of my point means you have no counter for it.

and now you are adding disability to it? Since when is that even remotely in the same discussion?

It's all about equality. If I can't legally discriminate against you, you shouldn't be able to legally discriminate against me. I can't refuse to serve a Christian, despite my deeply held beliefs about Christians, but you want them to be able to refuse to serve me. We should both be able to refuse to serve the other.

Disability is one of those minorities protected by Federal Public Accommodation laws, that's how.

Again, your view is just "its all me me me me me"

Instead of just going to another fucking baker, its time to ruin them, and fuck everyone else.

 

[Seawytch]

Either get rid of the laws that say I must serve you or add me to the list so you must serve me. It's that simple.

So you could get behind an effort to repeal PA laws?

Absolutely. I much prefer public shaming, incredibly funny Yelp reviews and running bigots out on a rail.

Big push to get rid of these laws is there? Anyone anywhere putting forth legislation?

(don't bother, the answer is no)

 

[Seawytch]

Its all about you, ain't it. and your dismissal of my point means you have no counter for it.

and now you are adding disability to it? Since when is that even remotely in the same discussion?

It's all about equality. If I can't legally discriminate against you, you shouldn't be able to legally discriminate against me. I can't refuse to serve a Christian, despite my deeply held beliefs about Christians, but you want them to be able to refuse to serve me. We should both be able to refuse to serve the other.

Disability is one of those minorities protected by Federal Public Accommodation laws, that's how.

Again, your view is just "its all me me me me me"

Instead of just going to another fucking baker, its time to ruin them, and fuck everyone else.

I can't refuse service to someone on the basis of race, religion, gender, country of origin, disability, etc...I guess it's all about "them, them, them" eh? They aren't tough enough to find another business so they have to have all these "special laws" protecting them?

Sound like you just think gays are icky and this gives you cover.

 

[dblack]

Either get rid of the laws that say I must serve you or add me to the list so you must serve me. It's that simple.

So you could get behind an effort to repeal PA laws?

Absolutely. I much prefer public shaming, incredibly funny Yelp reviews and running bigots out on a rail.

Big push to get rid of these laws is there? Anyone anywhere putting forth legislation?

(don't bother, the answer is no)

Currently the answer is no. But the more we add to "the list", the more we'll see people question the PA concept. That's why I say "pile on" - the more the merrier! Maybe at some point, rather than having a list of "protected classes", we'll just switch to having a list of "scapegoat classes" - approved targets for discrimination. Wouldn't that be awesome?

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's all about equality. If I can't legally discriminate against you, you shouldn't be able to legally discriminate against me. I can't refuse to serve a Christian, despite my deeply held beliefs about Christians, but you want them to be able to refuse to serve me. We should both be able to refuse to serve the other.

Disability is one of those minorities protected by Federal Public Accommodation laws, that's how.

Again, your view is just "its all me me me me me"

Instead of just going to another fucking baker, its time to ruin them, and fuck everyone else.

I can't refuse service to someone on the basis of race, religion, gender, country of origin, disability, etc...I guess it's all about "them, them, them" eh? They aren't tough enough to find another business so they have to have all these "special laws" protecting them?

Sound like you just think gays are icky and this gives you cover.

Quite frankly I wouldn't care if any business refused me service.

Why on earth would I want to spend my hard earned money in a business that will not value me as a customer?

 

[martybegan]

Oh really? It wasn't a Woolworth's call?

The law in South Carolina at the time. Fitting because the Greensboro protest was the most prominent.

"No persons, firms, or corporations, who or which furnish meals to passengers at station restaurants or station eating houses, in times limited by common carriers of said passengers, shall furnish said meals to white and colored passengers in the same room, or at the same table, or at the same counter."

List of Jim Crow law examples by State - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Who cares about South Carolina? The Woolworths lunch counter event I've been talking about was in Nashville Tennessee.

and the Wikipedia page references Nashville's Jim crow LAWS, which probably were similar to the one I quoted from South Carolina.

 

[Seawytch]

Both shouldn't be outlawed, except when government does it, but it still doesn't make them the same.

Well sure. But in the context of the conversation, they should be treated the same under the law, right?

Why? How does sexuality get lumped with race, and thus gets the same protection, while things like the fact I am fat, or ugly, or like Star Wars doesn't.

Race had to have certain protections because of this countries history of it, in particular slavery. The only slavery I can connect to homosexuality is based on a fetish subset of the community, and was voluntary.

How does religion get lumped in with race and thus get the same protections?

 

[martybegan]

It's all about equality. If I can't legally discriminate against you, you shouldn't be able to legally discriminate against me. I can't refuse to serve a Christian, despite my deeply held beliefs about Christians, but you want them to be able to refuse to serve me. We should both be able to refuse to serve the other.

Disability is one of those minorities protected by Federal Public Accommodation laws, that's how.

Again, your view is just "its all me me me me me"

Instead of just going to another fucking baker, its time to ruin them, and fuck everyone else.

I can't refuse service to someone on the basis of race, religion, gender, country of origin, disability, etc...I guess it's all about "them, them, them" eh? They aren't tough enough to find another business so they have to have all these "special laws" protecting them?

Sound like you just think gays are icky and this gives you cover.

Nope, i just respect the rights of people who think "gays are icky." I have no need for laws that allow me to be bigoted, because I am not. However if someone wants to be, and as long as they are not the government or work for a company that does government work, and ESPECIALLY if they work in a non essential service, they should be able to without the fear of GOVERNMENT repercussions.

 

[martybegan]

Well sure. But in the context of the conversation, they should be treated the same under the law, right?

Why? How does sexuality get lumped with race, and thus gets the same protection, while things like the fact I am fat, or ugly, or like Star Wars doesn't.

Race had to have certain protections because of this countries history of it, in particular slavery. The only slavery I can connect to homosexuality is based on a fetish subset of the community, and was voluntary.

How does religion get lumped in with race and thus get the same protections?

It shouldn't either. However you are operating on the concept of a wrong allowing another wrong to be A-OK. So you laud people being ruined for not accepting your lifestyle just because you can't do what you want to do.

And guess what? If you are smart about it, you can. And I doubt anyone would sue you, they would probably just go somewhere else and patronize someone else.

 

[Seawytch]

So you could get behind an effort to repeal PA laws?

Absolutely. I much prefer public shaming, incredibly funny Yelp reviews and running bigots out on a rail.

Big push to get rid of these laws is there? Anyone anywhere putting forth legislation?

(don't bother, the answer is no)

Currently the answer is no. But the more we add to "the list", the more we'll see people question the PA concept. That's why I say "pile on" - the more the merrier! Maybe at some point, rather than having a list of "protected classes", we'll just switch to having a list of "scapegoat classes" - approved targets for discrimination. Wouldn't that be awesome?

A lot of things would be awesome, just not likely. There is no political will. Even the tribble head Rand Paul is backing of his bullshit on the Civil Rights Act, denying he ever said anything about it. Why? Because there is no political will to get rid of PA laws or to make changes to the Civil Rights Act.

In fact, the political will is in the other direction, protect gays like all the other minorities are protected. Did you know that you can fire people for being gay in about 30 states but a majority of Americans don't think you can and believe you shouldn't' be able to?

 

[dblack]

Absolutely. I much prefer public shaming, incredibly funny Yelp reviews and running bigots out on a rail.

Big push to get rid of these laws is there? Anyone anywhere putting forth legislation?

(don't bother, the answer is no)

Currently the answer is no. But the more we add to "the list", the more we'll see people question the PA concept. That's why I say "pile on" - the more the merrier! Maybe at some point, rather than having a list of "protected classes", we'll just switch to having a list of "scapegoat classes" - approved targets for discrimination. Wouldn't that be awesome?

A lot of things would be awesome, just not likely. There is no political will. Even the tribble head Rand Paul is backing of his bullshit on the Civil Rights Act, denying he ever said anything about it. Why? Because there is no political will to get rid of PA laws or to make changes to the Civil Rights Act.

In fact, the political will is in the other direction, protect gays like all the other minorities are protected.

All other minorities aren't protected. Only a select few.

Did you know that you can fire people for being gay in about 30 states but a majority of Americans don't think you can and believe you shouldn't' be able to?

I hear ya. But, as I suggested, the more we add to the protected classes, the more people are saying "wtf?" We learn slow, but sometimes, eventually, we get it.

 

[Redfish]

It's all about equality. If I can't legally discriminate against you, you shouldn't be able to legally discriminate against me. I can't refuse to serve a Christian, despite my deeply held beliefs about Christians, but you want them to be able to refuse to serve me. We should both be able to refuse to serve the other.

Disability is one of those minorities protected by Federal Public Accommodation laws, that's how.

Again, your view is just "its all me me me me me"

Instead of just going to another fucking baker, its time to ruin them, and fuck everyone else.

I can't refuse service to someone on the basis of race, religion, gender, country of origin, disability, etc...I guess it's all about "them, them, them" eh? They aren't tough enough to find another business so they have to have all these "special laws" protecting them?

Sound like you just think gays are icky and this gives you cover.

Do you agree that gay couples should pay for contraceptives for single women? Obamacare makes you do just that.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Considering they had to segregate lunch counters based on local laws, again, it was government doing it, and I have already said that should not happen.

Oh really? It wasn't a Woolworth's call?

The law in South Carolina at the time. Fitting because the Greensboro protest was the most prominent.

"No persons, firms, or corporations, who or which furnish meals to passengers at station restaurants or station eating houses, in times limited by common carriers of said passengers, shall furnish said meals to white and colored passengers in the same room, or at the same table, or at the same counter."

List of Jim Crow law examples by State - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't believe that Woolworth's was in a train, bus, or airport. IIRC it was a building downtown.


>>>>

 

[martybegan]

Oh really? It wasn't a Woolworth's call?

The law in South Carolina at the time. Fitting because the Greensboro protest was the most prominent.

"No persons, firms, or corporations, who or which furnish meals to passengers at station restaurants or station eating houses, in times limited by common carriers of said passengers, shall furnish said meals to white and colored passengers in the same room, or at the same table, or at the same counter."

List of Jim Crow law examples by State - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't believe that Woolworth's was in a train, bus, or airport. IIRC it was a building downtown.


>>>>

Its the best one I could find, but you get the idea. its acutally kind of hard to find the wording of the laws.

 

[Ibentoken]

That is pure conjecture. The laws are on the books and people sue. People sue when they are refused service because of their gender, race, religion and disability. It's not just the gays suing.

Either get rid of the laws that say I must serve you or add me to the list so you must serve me. It's that simple.

Its all about you, ain't it. and your dismissal of my point means you have no counter for it.

and now you are adding disability to it? Since when is that even remotely in the same discussion?

It's all about equality. If I can't legally discriminate against you, you shouldn't be able to legally discriminate against me. I can't refuse to serve a Christian, despite my deeply held beliefs about Christians, but you want them to be able to refuse to serve me. We should both be able to refuse to serve the other.

Disability is one of those minorities protected by Federal Public Accommodation laws, that's how.

It's about freedom. You don't have the right to force me to labor for you against my religious beliefs.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Its all about you, ain't it. and your dismissal of my point means you have no counter for it.

and now you are adding disability to it? Since when is that even remotely in the same discussion?

It's all about equality. If I can't legally discriminate against you, you shouldn't be able to legally discriminate against me. I can't refuse to serve a Christian, despite my deeply held beliefs about Christians, but you want them to be able to refuse to serve me. We should both be able to refuse to serve the other.

Disability is one of those minorities protected by Federal Public Accommodation laws, that's how.

It's about freedom. You don't have the right to force me to labor for you against my religious beliefs.

Nonsense.

Public accommodations laws are perfectly Constitutional and in no way "violate" religious freedom.

The case law can be cited for you again if you missed it the first several times.