Bernie Sanders thinks our government should be more like the ones found in Scandanavia

[Kosh]

The far left socialist Bernie Sanders wants the US to be like the far left ruled Europe.. Go figure!

Anyone trying to compare a country the size of New York to all of the US is just plain stupid..

 

[Billy000]

He can move there then, let this remain the one country where we have negative rights.

1. A negative right is a right not to be subjected to an action of another person or group; negative rights permit or oblige inaction. A positive right is a right to be subjected to an action or another person or group; positive rights permit or oblige action.

Political philosopher Isaiah Berlin clarified the distinction in a famous lecture titled “Two Concepts of Liberty.” If negative liberty is concerned with the freedom to pursue one’s interests according to one’s own free will and without “interference from external bodies,” then positive liberty takes up the “degree to which individuals or groups” are able to “act autonomously” in the first place (Berlin, 1958).1 In other words, what are the conditions under which individuals shape their understandings of their own free will? What gives individuals a positive idea about how they should act, rather than negative limitations on how they may not act?

There was some disagreement about the relative importance of these two conceptions during the debates over the Universal Declaration and its Conventions.While the U.S. had adopted a welfare state model under the New Deal reforms of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, economic and social rights were not part of the American political tradition in the same way they had been for many continental European governments or the increasingly powerful Soviet Union.

American disinclination to positive liberty can be attributed in part to the ideological campaign against the Soviet Union during the Cold War. The Soviets gave a high place to the collective over the individual. This meant priority for positive liberty, which they believed empowered the state to take sweeping action to provide for the well-being and “self-realization” of its citizens, sometimes at the expense of individual civil and political rights, such as the right to political participation.

Many in the West, however, viewed the Soviet position skeptically as a veiled attempt to return to the excesses of authoritarianism that the United Nations system of governance was designed to had been set up to prevent. Great injustices have often been committed for the benefit of the collective good. Berlin and others were wary of “the way in which the apparently noble ideal of freedom as self-mastery or self-realization had been twisted and distorted by the totalitarian dictators of the twentieth century” (Berlin, 1958)Insisting upon the primacy of negative rights, however, impedes the advancement of social justice by making it more difficult to justify allocating resources to help the underprivileged yet easy to justify inaction.

Ultimately, it remains an open question whether the positive and negative forms of liberty are two aspects of a common conception of rights or two distinct types of rights that are closely related without being identical.

The rest of the world is governed under a prevailing system of positive rights, including totalitarian shitholes.

Norway has the best democracy in Europe.

 

[Billy000]

If deficit is so much of an issue in Scandinavia, then the wealthy simply need to be taxed more.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

If deficit is so much of an issue in Scandinavia, then the wealthy simply need to be taxed more.

...

lol

Show us proof that if the wealthy people there were hypothetically taxed at 100% that they could ever repay their deficit.

 

[Billy000]

If deficit is so much of an issue in Scandinavia, then the wealthy simply need to be taxed more.

...

lol

Show us proof that if the wealthy people there were hypothetically taxed at 100% that they could ever repay their deficit.

I don't know their deficit. Do you? Either way, it would only get worse without more revenue. You do know that is how it works right?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

He's right. Sander's entire political position is dictated by FACTS. You know those pesky things republicans try to avoid to win over a stupid American populace.

Bernie Sanders I can beat Hillary Clinton - CBS News

He has a long shot. I know that. He probably ultimately won't become president, but you know his message will at least be heard. Hopefully something comes out of that.

The Koch brothers donated close to a billion to the republican campaign. Thats twice as much of the funding for the entire 2012 republican campaign. Two guys essentially comprise an entire third party.

Why are average joe republicans okay with that?

Bernie Sanders ALONG WITH MORONS LIKE YOU can go to hell.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

He's right. Sander's entire political position is dictated by FACTS. You know those pesky things republicans try to avoid to win over a stupid American populace.

Bernie Sanders I can beat Hillary Clinton - CBS News

He has a long shot. I know that. He probably ultimately won't become president, but you know his message will at least be heard. Hopefully something comes out of that.

The Koch brothers donated close to a billion to the republican campaign. Thats twice as much of the funding for the entire 2012 republican campaign. Two guys essentially comprise an entire third party.

Why are average joe republicans okay with that?

Bernie Sanders ALONG WITH MORONS LIKE YOU can go to hell.

Quoted for obvious truth

 

[oldernwiser]

He's right. Sander's entire political position is dictated by FACTS. You know those pesky things republicans try to avoid to win over a stupid American populace.

Bernie Sanders I can beat Hillary Clinton - CBS News

He has a long shot. I know that. He probably ultimately won't become president, but you know his message will at least be heard. Hopefully something comes out of that.

The Koch brothers donated close to a billion to the republican campaign. Thats twice as much of the funding for the entire 2012 republican campaign. Two guys essentially comprise an entire third party.

Why are average joe republicans okay with that?

Bernie Sanders ALONG WITH MORONS LIKE YOU can go to hell.

I'll meet you there Grampa - because if old Bernie does toss his hat in the ring, I might be the only one in NC to vote for him but vote for him I surely will. Unlike the rest of the field - and that includes Republicans and Democrats alike - Bernie is the only one who will tell it like he sees it and do for the country not what a tiny fraction of reactionary dolts demand, but what needs doing. And as Billy000 said, even if he doesn't win, he surely will have an impact on the discussion.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

He's right. Sander's entire political position is dictated by FACTS. You know those pesky things republicans try to avoid to win over a stupid American populace.

Bernie Sanders I can beat Hillary Clinton - CBS News

He has a long shot. I know that. He probably ultimately won't become president, but you know his message will at least be heard. Hopefully something comes out of that.

The Koch brothers donated close to a billion to the republican campaign. Thats twice as much of the funding for the entire 2012 republican campaign. Two guys essentially comprise an entire third party.

Why are average joe republicans okay with that?

Bernie Sanders ALONG WITH MORONS LIKE YOU can go to hell.

I'll meet you there Grampa - because if old Bernie does toss his hat in the ring, I might be the only one in NC to vote for him but vote for him I surely will. Unlike the rest of the field - and that includes Republicans and Democrats alike - Bernie is the only one who will tell it like he sees it and do for the country not what a tiny fraction of reactionary dolts demand, but what needs doing. And as Billy000 said, even if he doesn't win, he surely will have an impact on the discussion.

Apparently you misunderstood what Fuck Bernie ment

Not sure how but I can only guess that you're a leftie to be so confused on such a simple matter

 

[oldernwiser]

He's right. Sander's entire political position is dictated by FACTS. You know those pesky things republicans try to avoid to win over a stupid American populace.

Bernie Sanders I can beat Hillary Clinton - CBS News

He has a long shot. I know that. He probably ultimately won't become president, but you know his message will at least be heard. Hopefully something comes out of that.

The Koch brothers donated close to a billion to the republican campaign. Thats twice as much of the funding for the entire 2012 republican campaign. Two guys essentially comprise an entire third party.

Why are average joe republicans okay with that?

Bernie Sanders ALONG WITH MORONS LIKE YOU can go to hell.

I'll meet you there Grampa - because if old Bernie does toss his hat in the ring, I might be the only one in NC to vote for him but vote for him I surely will. Unlike the rest of the field - and that includes Republicans and Democrats alike - Bernie is the only one who will tell it like he sees it and do for the country not what a tiny fraction of reactionary dolts demand, but what needs doing. And as Billy000 said, even if he doesn't win, he surely will have an impact on the discussion.

Apparently you misunderstood what Fuck Bernie ment

Not sure how but I can only guess that you're a leftie to be so confused on such a simple matter

Oh - I'm not so daft as that, Gramps. I don't think Bernie has a chance in hell at taking the primaries - and it's a pity too, because I know I'll hate myself for voting for Hillary. But I'll do that too if I have to.

 

[Billy000]

He's right. Sander's entire political position is dictated by FACTS. You know those pesky things republicans try to avoid to win over a stupid American populace.

Bernie Sanders I can beat Hillary Clinton - CBS News

He has a long shot. I know that. He probably ultimately won't become president, but you know his message will at least be heard. Hopefully something comes out of that.

The Koch brothers donated close to a billion to the republican campaign. Thats twice as much of the funding for the entire 2012 republican campaign. Two guys essentially comprise an entire third party.

Why are average joe republicans okay with that?

Bernie Sanders ALONG WITH MORONS LIKE YOU can go to hell.

Lol come on Gramps. You can't even come up with an argument for why he is wrong. Counter his facts, or get lost.

 

[bripat9643]

He can move there then, let this remain the one country where we have negative rights.

1. A negative right is a right not to be subjected to an action of another person or group; negative rights permit or oblige inaction. A positive right is a right to be subjected to an action or another person or group; positive rights permit or oblige action.

Political philosopher Isaiah Berlin clarified the distinction in a famous lecture titled “Two Concepts of Liberty.” If negative liberty is concerned with the freedom to pursue one’s interests according to one’s own free will and without “interference from external bodies,” then positive liberty takes up the “degree to which individuals or groups” are able to “act autonomously” in the first place (Berlin, 1958).1 In other words, what are the conditions under which individuals shape their understandings of their own free will? What gives individuals a positive idea about how they should act, rather than negative limitations on how they may not act?

There was some disagreement about the relative importance of these two conceptions during the debates over the Universal Declaration and its Conventions.While the U.S. had adopted a welfare state model under the New Deal reforms of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, economic and social rights were not part of the American political tradition in the same way they had been for many continental European governments or the increasingly powerful Soviet Union.

American disinclination to positive liberty can be attributed in part to the ideological campaign against the Soviet Union during the Cold War. The Soviets gave a high place to the collective over the individual. This meant priority for positive liberty, which they believed empowered the state to take sweeping action to provide for the well-being and “self-realization” of its citizens, sometimes at the expense of individual civil and political rights, such as the right to political participation.

Many in the West, however, viewed the Soviet position skeptically as a veiled attempt to return to the excesses of authoritarianism that the United Nations system of governance was designed to had been set up to prevent. Great injustices have often been committed for the benefit of the collective good. Berlin and others were wary of “the way in which the apparently noble ideal of freedom as self-mastery or self-realization had been twisted and distorted by the totalitarian dictators of the twentieth century” (Berlin, 1958)Insisting upon the primacy of negative rights, however, impedes the advancement of social justice by making it more difficult to justify allocating resources to help the underprivileged yet easy to justify inaction.

Ultimately, it remains an open question whether the positive and negative forms of liberty are two aspects of a common conception of rights or two distinct types of rights that are closely related without being identical.

The rest of the world is governed under a prevailing system of positive rights, including totalitarian shitholes.

Norway has the best democracy in Europe.

You mean because it's an all-white democracy?

 

[RUNVS]

Scandinavian countries are sparsely populated, white, Christian and rich in natural resources...what was Bernie saying?

Actually Scandinavian countries have some of the highest rates of atheism in the world.

 

[oldernwiser]

The far left socialist Bernie Sanders wants the US to be like the far left ruled Europe.. Go figure!

Anyone trying to compare a country the size of New York to all of the US is just plain stupid..

I know how you'd prefer to ignore facts and step straight into the "America is Exceptional" rhetoric, but you might want to read this first. And you do know that the combined size of the Scandinavian countries (yes, if you either read the article or listened to the video, Bernie named them all) almost equal the size of the US, right? If you throw Singapore into the mix - as they also have a social democrat running the show there - the population size exceeds the US.

 

[Meathead]

I think American women should look more like Scandinavians, but there you go.

 

[Claudette]

Almost all of Europe, Scandanavian countries included, are social democracys. Cradle to grave care for all payed for by those who work.

Why would anyone want to have drive and determination to better themselves. No need. The Govt will take care of you payed for by those that work. Those that don't get the same rights, privileges and care as those that do.

Good deal for the freeloaders and those that work don't seem to know the difference.

Bernie should move to Scandanavia. His utipian dreams would be answered.

 

[bripat9643]

The far left socialist Bernie Sanders wants the US to be like the far left ruled Europe.. Go figure!

Anyone trying to compare a country the size of New York to all of the US is just plain stupid..

I know how you'd prefer to ignore facts and step straight into the "America is Exceptional" rhetoric, but you might want to read this first. And you do know that the combined size of the Scandinavian countries (yes, if you either read the article or listened to the video, Bernie named them all) almost equal the size of the US, right? If you throw Singapore into the mix - as they also have a social democrat running the show there - the population size exceeds the US.

Singapore is one of the least socialist countries on the planet. The biggest problem arguing with liberals is the compulsion to make up their own definitions for words.

 

[bripat9643]

Scandinavian countries are sparsely populated, white, Christian and rich in natural resources...what was Bernie saying?

Actually Scandinavian countries have some of the highest rates of atheism in the world.

They aren't Muslims, are they?

 

[Mac1958]

Why would anyone want to have drive and determination to better themselves. No need. The Govt will take care of you payed for by those that work.

That's essentially the trade-off here. On a macro level, we would be looking at a less dynamic economy, a lower "standard of living".

I put "standard of living" in quotes because it would be interesting to examine what that would actually look like. Fewer toys, less conspicuous consumption? A reduced cultural pressure to chase those things because we think they'll make us "happy"? A reduced need for anti-depressives as a result, perhaps?

Just saying. The obvious danger is that we would go too far. But it's a reasonable conversation to have. Unfortunately, reason is very difficult to find currently.

At least Sanders is being honest.

.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yeap, the liberals and their moronic notion that there is some utopia out there where we can all live in harmony. Perhaps under a big tree and we all turn into blue flying creatures in a distant land.

Of course to the left the illegitimate American ideal is and always has been a false premise. Regardless of the fact that everyone has been granted opportunity.

To them, anything that is unfair, is unrighteous. Of course. Cause somewhere out there, there is a land where everyone is equal and there is no struggle. Everyone can freely smoke pot along with whatever substance that they deem as good.

Of course, yeah America sucks. Which must be the reason why so many from these failed fucking socialist countries are so desperate to get here.

Fucking liberals and their utter fucking mindless bullshit. Let Mexico border those countries, let them have a socialist fuck have an open door policy and let us see how great things will be in those subarctic countries.

You stupid fucking moronic ignorant liberals. You think you are all so fucking smart, while being such deranged fucking morons at the exact same time.

It's always somebody else's fault that America has lost its way. It's the blacks, or the Mexicans or the liberals. It's not the greed, the arrogance, or the abandonment of the principles the founders laid down.

You've lost your equal opportunity for all. Lots of people are working hard all of their lives and ending up with nothing. The game is now rigged against them.

If you don't pull yourselves together and stop blaming others for the situation, you will continue to fall apart.

I live in a country where we don't have to arm ourselves against our neighbours, and our constitution says we have an obligation to help others.

Nobody is successful by themselves. That's a myth. Everyone you ever met who inspired you, taught you, provided you with opportunities, advised you, worked with you or for you, helped you succeed. The infrastructure provided by government gives you a safe, secure environment in which you can work with assurance that you will profit from your success.

It used to be that when a company was successful, its employees were rewarded because their work made that company successful. With the huge corporations today, management is so far removed from workers that they have lost respect or even interest in the people working for them.

When companies were small enough that the owners knew everyone by name, their employees' welfare and well being mattered to them. Americans now work longer hours, for no additional compensation. Corporate executives earn many times more money than they used to by managing for the bottom line.

It's important for businesses to show a profit and a decent return on investment but when corporations are recording record profits year after year, executives recording records pay raises year after year, why isn't any of this money going to the workers who make this success possible? It's because executives never see these people, don't know them and don't care about them.