Bertrand Russell On Israel

[Sunni Man]

Yes, we are doing so much better now than when we blessed Israel.....

The U.S. still gives the rogue state of Israel $3 billion dollars annually and tons of military weapons.

How many more blessings could we give the Zionist freeloaders?? .......

Are you referring to these people Sunni? The ones referred to here in the Qur'an?

"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"

"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

Yes, I am.

Bani Israel (tribe of Israel)

The people whom Allah (G-d) gave the land of Israel.

But he kicked them off the land when they started worshipping idols and broke their covenant with him. .....

 

[Sunni Man]

Northern Irish Protestant probably. The Irish Catholics remember how Protestant settlers took over their island and how long it took to get them out of part of it. They had to endure the same oppression and occupation that the Palestinian Christians and Muslims are undergoing now.

Irish Ram is a protestant "Orange Man"......which aren't real Irish ......because a real Irish person is a Catholic. .....

 

[Hossfly]

Anyone with half a brain recognizes the fact that Israel is nothing but a troublemaking land thief; consequently, it should come as no surprise to practically everyone, that a person with a full brain, like Bertrand Russell's, saw it in the same manner. Israel is no friend to America . . . our continued association with her, in my opinion, brings dire consequences for all of us in the form of a poor image to others abroad, and that, too, of having to go to war for her protection yet once again.

Anyone with even half a brain, Pishy realizes what a very good anti-Semite you are, and you will search and search for anything or anyone who has anything to say against the Jews. I wonder why you didn't tell us what Thomas Jefferson said against the Muslims, or were you too busy playing "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," a friend who would not hesitate of doing you in the same as they would any other Infidel? Actually I prefer what Eric Hoffer said about the Jews.

Articles Eric Hoffer Revisited

 

[Grendelyn]

Although I find the odds against it almost impossible, I do believe that no Zionist land thief supporter posting under this subject, as of yet, has elected to call Bertrand Russell an anti-Semite . . . give yourselves a hand, perhaps in a million years you'll evolve into something resembling a caring human being.

 

[toastman]

Yes, we are doing so much better now than when we blessed Israel.....

The U.S. still gives the rogue state of Israel $3 billion dollars annually and tons of military weapons.

How many more blessings could we give the Zionist freeloaders?? .......

That's because Israel is surrounded by Muslim scum from all corners In the last 7 decades, Israel has done an excellent job in eliminating the Islamic cockroaches that have attacked her

 

[MJB12741]

Have you noticed how when someone makes rational sense like the Irish Ram, those who can only rely on links to support their argument jump all over those who can think?

 

[Hossfly]

Although I find the odds against it almost impossible, I do believe that no Zionist land thief supporter posting under this subject, as of yet, has elected to call Bertrand Russell an anti-Semite . . . give yourselves a hand, perhaps in a million years you'll evolve into something resembling a caring human being.

Perhaps some day you will evolve into a decent human being, Pishy, instead of being an anti-Semitic who had her few minutes of fame on Stormfront.com. Of course, we will have to wait and see how caring Pishy is toward the other people in the rest of the Middle East, people who are being killed right and left. Does she even follow what is happening or is she only interested in demonizing the Jews so she uses the Palestinian Arabs as her pawns?

 

[RoccoR]

Grendelyn, et al,

In direct response to the Bertrand Russell presentation.

But first, we must remember just who Russell was:

• An Aristocrat: 3rd Earl of Kingston Russell --- Viscount Amberley (Horsham District of West Sussex) and Viscount of Ardsalla (County Tipperary); Grandson of The Right Honorable The First Earl of Russell --- (Jack) Russell KG GCMG PC, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (1865-1866)
• Philosopher (Trinity College, Cambridge), Mathematician,
  • Short stint as a Diplomatic Attaché at the British embassy in Paris (1894).
  • Additionally studied Social Democracy, Berlin ---
  • Additionally Studied Bolshevism in Russia (1920)
• Anti-War Activist (Conscientious Objector WWI),
  • Sentenced (1919) for six months imprisonment for a pacifistic article he had written in the "Tribunal." While in prison, Russell wrote Introduction to Mathematical Philosophy..
  • "No Conscription fellowship and was fined £ 100 (1918) as the author of a leaflet criticizing a sentence of two years on a conscientious objector."
• British Order of Merit
• Fellow of the Royal Society
  • Awarded the Sylvester Medal “for the encouragement of mathematical research.”
  • Awarded de Morgan medal of the London Mathematical Society
• Nobel Prize in Literature (1950) for the Paper: "Logical Atomism" (Contemporary British Philosophy. Personal Statements, First series. Lond. 1924)
• And above all else: He lived and died a Welshman in the stanch Gilbert and Sullivan Victorian-era fashion (1836–1911) - He is Englishman. (Not American.)

My thumbnail, on the life of Bertrand Russell (one of the most brilliant men of the 20th Century) is really simplistic and does not do justice to all the honors and recognition he received from among his peers. But it does have a direct being on my comment. I have a couple of his products on my bookshelves; very hard reads. Few would reach to challenge him.

(SIDEBAR) I think that the general format and overall presentation of Bertrand Russell's last commentary was excellent and quite moving. I commend the producers (For the Peaceful Dismantlement of Zionist Apartheid).​

Anyone with half a brain recognizes the fact that Israel is nothing but a troublemaking land thief; consequently, it should come as no surprise to practically everyone, that a person with a full brain, like Bertrand Russell's, saw it in the same manner. Israel is no friend to America . . . our continued association with her, in my opinion, brings dire consequences for all of us in the form of a poor image to others abroad, and that, too, of having to go to war for her protection yet once again.

(COMMENT) --- An Opposing Point of View ---

Russell, like many academicians of his era, learned how things are suppose to work in an ideal environment where, --- ceterus paribus --- given all other variable (all else being equal) --- justice and equality were constant. In particular, Russell's claim to fame was in Philosophy, were he used mathematics to substantiate various philosophical conditions. And as I need not remind anyone here, the math behind logical and critical thinking is impervious to emotional driven arguments. This strain run through all his great arguments. The reason Russell is not a Christian was because he essentially ran through all the arguments deductively (for the existence of a Supreme Being) and determined that none of them seemed to be logically "valid." He used this very same process in evaluating the conflict between the Israel and Palestinian Conflict.

A deductive argument is said to be valid if and only if it takes a form that makes it impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion nevertheless to be false. Otherwise, a deductive argument is said to be invalid.

A deductive argument is sound if and only if it is both valid, and all of its premises are actually true. Otherwise, a deductive argument is unsound.​

Thus, what is absent from the Russell argument is the accumulated emotion that orbits the central disputes and the impact of the accumulated consequences that impact both sides of the dispute.

In 1970, when Bertrand Russell made the address (more than four decades ago), his general position was:

• That there was an miscalculation made.
• That the use of air power on Egypt would not be sufficient to induce surrender.
• The use of Israeli air power will fail its "essential purpose."
• That the use of Israeli air power would be "condemned" by the world.

• That it was a tragedy that a "foreign power" gave Palestine to another people to "create a new state."
• That this tragic action was the cause of refugee and displaced persons.
• That with every new conflict, the numbers of refugees and displaced persons increases.
• That the refugees and displaced have a "right of return."
• That the "right of return" is a central issue to the continuing conflict.
• That a "permanent and just settlement" on the issue of the "right of return" is essential to peace.
• Justice requires that Israel withdrawal from the territory occupied in 1967.

I believe that Russell actually believed what he wrote. But I would challenge his oratory on the following basis:

I do not believe that either the US or Israel thought that "Air Power" alone can achieve peace; not then and not now. It is just one tool in the overall toolbox. This was made clear during WWII and is just as valid today as it was then. There is a limit to what "Air Power" can achieve; but it is an essential component to any comprehensive military action. Thus, while the conclusion that "The bombing raids deep into Egyptian territory will not persuade the civilian population to surrender," is not accurate in that it was only one aspect of the conflict. The overall conduct of the conflicts must be evaluated in determining the essential reason for the establishment of the Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979. And that the Treaty itself, at least in part, suggests that the use of Israeli Air Power played a role in the subsequent conflicts that ultimately resulted in peace between Israel and Egypt.

The perspective that "their (Arab Palestinians) country was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State" is incorrect. The territory was not "given" to anyone by a "foreign power." It was NO Palestinian territory, but rather --- a territory under the Mandate of the Allied Powers to establish a Jewish National Home. And the UN, having the trustee management of the territory in 1948, presented a plan by which the remainder of the Mandate Territory was partitioned and a faction of residents were allowed to exercise their (Jewish People) "right to self-determination."

Relative to the refugees and displaced persons; Russell said: "It is abundantly clear that the refugees have every right to the homeland from which they were driven, and the denial of this right is at the heart of the continuing conflict." He did not include that millions that claim the "right;" but those that were displaced. The Palestinians claim that more than 5 million people (plus) have a right to return; when, in fact there are less than 60,000 people (as of 2012) that were refugees and displaced.​

While Bertrand Russell, in 1970, could afford to look at the scope and nature of the problem, --- he failed to count for:

• The magnitude of the Problem.
• The fact that the Arab Palestinian has openly rejected to engage in good faith negotiations; time and time again.
• That the Jewish People acted in good faith, completed the "Steps Preparatory to Independence," in accordance with the Trusteeship.
• That the Jewish People have unreconcilable differences that cannot be evaluated mathematically.

As wonderfully produced and emotionally moving the presentation was, Bertrand Russell's oratory and logic failed to address the essential that truly describe the 21st Century dispute we face today.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Grendelyn]

Whatever they require to remain a people in their own land. And a peace treaty isn't it. Want to know who isn't going to be laughing Penelope? The God that gave them that land. When the world forces them to give up land for the sake of peace, we are going to see destruction like we have never seen on this earth. That's God not smiling. Want to avoid that? Leave their little postage stamp of earth ALONE. It is just that simple.

If there's one thing that I detest, it's those like you, Irish Ram, that use your mythical god to control and frighten others as a means to make them see things your way. Bertrand Russell, truly was intelligent for he didn't believe in Christianity nor, too, did he believe in God. Mmmm, atheism . . . I love it! The world will be a much better place when the evilness of religion is once and for all finally eradicated from our planet. ~ Susan
PS In all likelihood, you'll probably an atheist, too . . . that is to say, a control-freak atheist . . . .

 

[MJB12741]

Whatever they require to remain a people in their own land. And a peace treaty isn't it. Want to know who isn't going to be laughing Penelope? The God that gave them that land. When the world forces them to give up land for the sake of peace, we are going to see destruction like we have never seen on this earth. That's God not smiling. Want to avoid that? Leave their little postage stamp of earth ALONE. It is just that simple.

If there's one thing that I detest, it's those like you, Irish Ram, that use your mythical god to control and frighten others as a means to make them see things your way. Bertrand Russell, truly was intelligent for he didn't believe in Christianity nor, too, did he believe in God. Mmmm, atheism . . . I love it! The world will be a much better place when the evilness of religion is once and for all finally eradicated from our planet. ~ Susan
PS In all likelihood, you'll probably an atheist, too . . . that is to say, a control-freak atheist . . . .

Poor Pish, so lost in her delusions. You see Pish, religion is not the cause of the world's problems. It is & always has been ---the result.

 

[Daniyel]

Haha the usual "enlightened people" turns out to be a cheap racist trash that excuse their position with everything they have, including the poor Palestinians..Just like the Nazis! but of course you are not offended when I call you Nazis, obviously you're gonna repeat what you just said a million times before - deflect it on the Jews with smarty reply like ''YOU ARE TREATING PALESTINIANS LIKE THE NAZIS'' - because you filth don't really have a grip, may God take you all.

 

[Grendelyn]

Haha the usual "enlightened people" turns out to be a cheap racist trash that excuse their position with everything they have, including the poor Palestinians..Just like the Nazis! but of course you are not offended when I call you Nazis, obviously you're gonna repeat what you just said a million times before - deflect it on the Jews with smarty reply like ''YOU ARE TREATING PALESTINIANS LIKE THE NAZIS'' - because you filth don't really have a grip, may God take you all.

We're not offended when you call us Nazis because we are not Nazis, you horse's caboose you.

 

[Hossfly]

Haha the usual "enlightened people" turns out to be a cheap racist trash that excuse their position with everything they have, including the poor Palestinians..Just like the Nazis! but of course you are not offended when I call you Nazis, obviously you're gonna repeat what you just said a million times before - deflect it on the Jews with smarty reply like ''YOU ARE TREATING PALESTINIANS LIKE THE NAZIS'' - because you filth don't really have a grip, may God take you all.

We're not offended when you call us Nazis because we are not Nazis, you horse's caboose you.

For a woman who always wanted others to think she had this huge vocabulary, one would think that she could find something else to say besides calling people a "horse's caboose." Maybe, underneath it all, Pishy is worried about middle-age spread showing in her keester since she is around 50 now and had been bringing up "caboose" for years.. Remember, Pishy, when you turned 40, you wondered what you were going to do with your life. Sounds like you are leading the same old life as before.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Northern Irish Protestant probably. The Irish Catholics remember how Protestant settlers took over their island and how long it took to get them out of part of it. They had to endure the same oppression and occupation that the Palestinian Christians and Muslims are undergoing now.

Irish Ram is a protestant "Orange Man"......which aren't real Irish ......because a real Irish person is a Catholic. .....

You just run your mouth. My ancestors came from Moneymore, Ireland to America about 250 years ago.
They ceased to be Catholic when a priest slapped my aunt and she slapped him back, and then threw him out of her house. I come from that hearty stock.

So, how come Allah wants the Jews to have Israel, and you don't. Maybe you aren't a real Muslim.....

 

[The Irish Ram]

Whatever they require to remain a people in their own land. And a peace treaty isn't it. Want to know who isn't going to be laughing Penelope? The God that gave them that land. When the world forces them to give up land for the sake of peace, we are going to see destruction like we have never seen on this earth. That's God not smiling. Want to avoid that? Leave their little postage stamp of earth ALONE. It is just that simple.

If there's one thing that I detest, it's those like you, Irish Ram, that use your mythical god to control and frighten others as a means to make them see things your way. Bertrand Russell, truly was intelligent for he didn't believe in Christianity nor, too, did he believe in God. Mmmm, atheism . . . I love it! The world will be a much better place when the evilness of religion is once and for all finally eradicated from our planet. ~ Susan
PS In all likelihood, you'll probably an atheist, too . . . that is to say, a control-freak atheist . . . .

Are you a drinker? You just called me an atheist who has a God that I use to scare you.
I didn't write Revelation, but I can inform you as to what it says. If I didn't warn you, then I would be remiss. What you do with the information falls under your control, not mine.

And I bet old Bertrand believes in Christ now!

 

[Penelope]

Northern Irish Protestant probably. The Irish Catholics remember how Protestant settlers took over their island and how long it took to get them out of part of it. They had to endure the same oppression and occupation that the Palestinian Christians and Muslims are undergoing now.

Irish Ram is a protestant "Orange Man"......which aren't real Irish ......because a real Irish person is a Catholic. .....

You just run your mouth. My ancestors came from Moneymore, Ireland to America about 250 years ago.
They ceased to be Catholic when a priest slapped my aunt and she slapped him back, and then threw him out of her house. I come from that hearty stock.

So, how come Allah wants the Jews to have Israel, and you don't. Maybe you aren't a real Muslim.....

Oh I knew you weren't Catholic, but stuck in one of those end time churches, do you send money to those poor Israelites as well? Adultery over and over again. You know the bible so well you'd realize that, remember King Cyrus, had to be called into help the Israelites, a Persian, imagine that . That temple has been destroyed , time to move on, put the plow to the field and don't look back, you may turn into a pillar of salt.

 

[docmauser1]

... And as I need not remind anyone here, the math behind logical and critical thinking is impervious to emotional driven arguments. ...

Ah! The palistan cheercrowd must be school dropouts, or somesuch, then!

 

[Daniyel]

Northern Irish Protestant probably. The Irish Catholics remember how Protestant settlers took over their island and how long it took to get them out of part of it. They had to endure the same oppression and occupation that the Palestinian Christians and Muslims are undergoing now.

Irish Ram is a protestant "Orange Man"......which aren't real Irish ......because a real Irish person is a Catholic. .....

You just run your mouth. My ancestors came from Moneymore, Ireland to America about 250 years ago.
They ceased to be Catholic when a priest slapped my aunt and she slapped him back, and then threw him out of her house. I come from that hearty stock.

So, how come Allah wants the Jews to have Israel, and you don't. Maybe you aren't a real Muslim.....

Oh I knew you weren't Catholic, but stuck in one of those end time churches, do you send money to those poor Israelites as well? Adultery over and over again. You know the bible so well you'd realize that, remember King Cyrus, had to be called into help the Israelites, a Persian, imagine that . That temple has been destroyed , time to move on, put the plow to the field and don't look back, you may turn into a pillar of salt.

Sura 17:7 In the Quran.

 

[Penelope]

Northern Irish Protestant probably. The Irish Catholics remember how Protestant settlers took over their island and how long it took to get them out of part of it. They had to endure the same oppression and occupation that the Palestinian Christians and Muslims are undergoing now.

Irish Ram is a protestant "Orange Man"......which aren't real Irish ......because a real Irish person is a Catholic. .....

You just run your mouth. My ancestors came from Moneymore, Ireland to America about 250 years ago.
They ceased to be Catholic when a priest slapped my aunt and she slapped him back, and then threw him out of her house. I come from that hearty stock.

So, how come Allah wants the Jews to have Israel, and you don't. Maybe you aren't a real Muslim.....

Oh I knew you weren't Catholic, but stuck in one of those end time churches, do you send money to those poor Israelites as well? Adultery over and over again. You know the bible so well you'd realize that, remember King Cyrus, had to be called into help the Israelites, a Persian, imagine that . That temple has been destroyed , time to move on, put the plow to the field and don't look back, you may turn into a pillar of salt.

Sura 17:7 In the Quran.

[17:7] "If you work righteousness, you work righteousness for your own good, but if you commit evil you do so to your own detriment. Thus, when the second time comes to pass, they will defeat you and enter the mosque (masjid), just as they did the first time. They will wipe out all the gains you had accomplished."

Its obvious whoever wrote down the Quran knew what was in the Talmud or Torah, don't you think?

I see the elite of Israel like to enter the Mosque, it must irritate you to no end that mosque is there, if you do decide to destroy that Mosque, I bet there will be hell to pay.

 

[pbel]

Anyone with half a brain recognizes the fact that Israel is nothing but a troublemaking land thief; consequently, it should come as no surprise to practically everyone, that a person with a full brain, like Bertrand Russell's, saw it in the same manner. Israel is no friend to America . . . our continued association with her, in my opinion, brings dire consequences for all of us in the form of a poor image to others abroad, and that, too, of having to go to war for her protection yet once again.

Even Einstein refused the Israeli Presidency at its inception, he did not believe in Zionism.