Bitcoin is fiat money. Another banker scam.

[ShootSpeeders]

Anyone who thinks it was created by some anonymous jap is a fool. The banksters created it. They say it is not fiat or gold but it is indeed fiat. Bitcoin is backed by nothing. The bitcoin shills tell us it is not fiat because only 21 million bitcoins can ever exist. But remember

1. That is an arbitrary number that can be changed at any time.

2. There are also many other crypto-currencies that are really just bitcoin with another name

3. The difficulty level of the problems that must be "mined" to create bitcoin can be altered at will too.

Any non-fiat money must be backed by something and that something must be rare.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I doubt seriously it would classify as money of any sort right now. It is incredibly unstable, it is held by relatively few people with a huge concentration held by even fewer people. If you bought a bitcoin 2 years ago, the last thing would have wanted to do is spend it on anything considering its value has increased over 30 times.

 

[waltky]

Bitcoin mine in Slovenia hacked...

Bitcoin Worth Millions Stolen Days Before US Exchange Opens
December 07, 2017 — A bitcoin mining company in Slovenia has been hacked for the possible theft of tens of millions of dollars, just days before the virtual currency, which hit a record above $15,000 on Thursday, is due to start trading on major U.S. exchanges.

NiceHash, a company that mines bitcoins on behalf of customers, said it is investigating a security breach and will stop operating for 24 hours while it verifies how many bitcoins were taken. Research company Coindesk said that a wallet address referred to by NiceHash users indicates that about 4,700 bitcoins had been stolen. At Thursday's record price of about $15,000, that puts the value at over $70 million. There was no immediate response from NiceHash to an emailed request for more details. “The incident has been reported to the relevant authorities and law enforcement and we are cooperating with them as a matter of urgency,” it said. The statement urged users to change their online passwords.

Slovenian police are investigating the case together with authorities in other states, spokesman Bostjan Lindav said, without providing details. The hack will put a spotlight on the security of bitcoin just as the trading community prepares for the currency to start trading on two established U.S. exchanges. Futures for bitcoin will start trading on the Chicago Board Options Exchange on Sunday evening and on crosstown rival CME Group's platforms later in the month. That has increased the sense among some investors that bitcoin is gaining in mainstream legitimacy after several countries, like China, tried to stifle the virtual currency.

A bitcoin logo is displayed at the Inside Bitcoins conference and trade show in New York.​

As a result, the price of bitcoin has jumped in the past year, particularly so in recent weeks. On Thursday it surged to over $15,000, up $1,300 in less than a day, according to Coindesk. At the start of the year, one bitcoin was worth less than $1,000. Bitcoin is the world's most popular virtual currency. Such currencies are not tied to a bank or government and allow users to spend money anonymously. They are basically lines of computer code that are digitally signed each time they are traded. A debate is raging on the merits of such currencies. Some say they serve merely to facilitate money laundering and illicit, anonymous payments. Others say they can be helpful methods of payment, such as in crisis situations where national currencies have collapsed.

Miners of bitcoins and other virtual currencies help keep the systems honest by having their computers keep a global running tally of transactions. That prevents cheaters from spending the same digital coin twice. Online security is a vital concern for such dealings. In Japan, following the failure of a bitcoin exchange called Mt. Gox, new laws were enacted to regulate bitcoin and other virtual currencies. Mt. Gox shut down in February 2014, saying it lost about 850,000 bitcoins, possibly to hackers.

Bitcoin Worth Millions Stolen Days Before US Exchange Opens

 

[waltky]

Woman uses bitcoin to launder money for ISIS...

N.Y. woman attempted to send bitcoin to Islamic State, feds say
Dec. 15, 2017 -- A New York woman was charged with several financial crimes in an effort to send bitcoin to the Islamic State, according to an indictment unsealed in federal court Thursday.

The U.S. Attorney's Office of the Eastern District of New York charged Zoobia Shahnaz, 27, with bank fraud, conspiracy to commit money laundering and three substantive counts of money laundering. Prosecutors said Shahnaz, "defrauded numerous financial institutions and obtained over $85,000 in illicit proceeds, which she converted to Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. She then laundered and transferred the funds out of the country to support the [Islamic State]." "As alleged, the defendant Zoobia Shahnaz engaged in a bank fraud scheme, purchased bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and laundered money overseas, intending to put thousands of dollars into the coffers of terrorists," Acting United States Attorney Rohde said in a statement.

Prosecutors said Shahnaz, a U.S. citizen, lied to obtain a $22,500 loan and fraudulently applied for more than 12 credit cards to buy Bitcoin and other currencies over the internet. "She then engaged in a pattern of financial activity, culminating in several wire transactions, totaling over $150,000, to individuals and apparent shell entities in Pakistan, China and Turkey," prosecutors said.

Shahnaz is not being charged with terrorism-related crimes. But she faces up to 30 years for the bank fraud charge and 20 years on each money laundering count.

N.Y. woman attempted to send bitcoin to Islamic State, feds say

 

[Natural Citizen]

It's currency competition. And the dollar is already down 98% since the creation of the Federal Reserve and its collection wing, the IRS, both in 1913. It's worth about 4 cents of its original value. The only reason the dollar hasn't tanked yet is because the politicians keep kicking that can down the road so it doesn't tank on their watch. It will fail. It is not a question of if. It's a question of when.

Cryptocurrency is one step closer to defeating that monopoly on money and to starve that worthless vampire once and for all.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Woman uses bitcoin to launder money for ISIS...

N.Y. woman attempted to send bitcoin to Islamic State, feds say
Dec. 15, 2017 -- A New York woman was charged with several financial crimes in an effort to send bitcoin to the Islamic State, according to an indictment unsealed in federal court Thursday.

The U.S. Attorney's Office of the Eastern District of New York charged Zoobia Shahnaz, 27, with bank fraud, conspiracy to commit money laundering and three substantive counts of money laundering. Prosecutors said Shahnaz, "defrauded numerous financial institutions and obtained over $85,000 in illicit proceeds, which she converted to Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. She then laundered and transferred the funds out of the country to support the [Islamic State]." "As alleged, the defendant Zoobia Shahnaz engaged in a bank fraud scheme, purchased bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and laundered money overseas, intending to put thousands of dollars into the coffers of terrorists," Acting United States Attorney Rohde said in a statement.

Prosecutors said Shahnaz, a U.S. citizen, lied to obtain a $22,500 loan and fraudulently applied for more than 12 credit cards to buy Bitcoin and other currencies over the internet. "She then engaged in a pattern of financial activity, culminating in several wire transactions, totaling over $150,000, to individuals and apparent shell entities in Pakistan, China and Turkey," prosecutors said.

Shahnaz is not being charged with terrorism-related crimes. But she faces up to 30 years for the bank fraud charge and 20 years on each money laundering count.

N.Y. woman attempted to send bitcoin to Islamic State, feds say

Yeah, and our elected leaders historically print federal reserve notes to send weapons, vehicles, and rations to terrorists to overthrow and install governments abroad. What's your point?

Is it a coincidence that a century of warfare coincides with a century of central banking?

 

[USNavyVet]

Is it a coincidence that a century of warfare coincides with a century of central banking?

Correlation is not causation.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Correlation is not causation.

Oh. Okay. So that 726 billion dollar check for the 2018 tab to place armed men, vehicles, and bases from the United States federal government on the shores of nations abroad to antagonize, I mean defense spending, is gonna come out of our store of value, then? Silly me. I thought we were 21 trillion in the hole and holding onto what's left of a 4 cent dollar.

 

[USNavyVet]

Correlation is not causation.

Oh. Okay. So that 726 billion dollar check for the 2018 tab to place armed men, vehicles, and bases from the United States federal government on the shores of nations abroad to antagonize, I mean defense spending, is gonna come out of our store of value, then? Silly me. I thought we were 21 trillion in the hole and holding onto what's left of a 4 cent dollar.

Your wild fantasies do not constitute causation. Try again.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Correlation is not causation.

Oh. Okay. So that 726 billion dollar check for the 2018 tab to place armed men, vehicles, and bases from the United States federal government on the shores of nations abroad to antagonize, I mean defense spending, is gonna come out of our store of value, then? Silly me. I thought we were 21 trillion in the hole and holding onto what's left of a 4 cent dollar.

Your wild fantasies do not constitute causation. Try again.

Go color, moron.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Threads like these are when the statists on the right come out, folks. Wait for it. There'll be more. You know how they like to call you lefties statists? Nobody ever calls a spade on the so called right a spade. If you want to see it demonstrated right properly, stick around. I aim to please.

 

[USNavyVet]

Correlation is not causation.

Oh. Okay. So that 726 billion dollar check for the 2018 tab to place armed men, vehicles, and bases from the United States federal government on the shores of nations abroad to antagonize, I mean defense spending, is gonna come out of our store of value, then? Silly me. I thought we were 21 trillion in the hole and holding onto what's left of a 4 cent dollar.

Your wild fantasies do not constitute causation. Try again.

Go color, moron.

Maybe when you grow up you'll have adult conversations.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Maybe when you grow up you'll have adult conversations.

I tried. But unfortunately you seem to be another one of these radical statists who thinks he's a conservative. I see a lot of those around here.

To be clear, though, ya disingenous statist, you said: ''Your wild fantasies do not constitute causation. Try again.''

You're the one who started the romper room, pal. Not me.

And before you pop off about correlation or causation in anything I type on this board you might want to check the facts about what I'm talking about first. Because I promise you that I already have. If I didn't, I wouldn't type it.

 

[USNavyVet]

Maybe when you grow up you'll have adult conversations.

I tried. But infortunately you seem to be another one of these radical statists who thinks he's a conservative. I see a lot of those around here.

Before you pop off about correlation or causation in any of thing I type on this board you might want to check the facts about what I'm talking about first. Because I promise you that I already have. If i didnt, I wouldn't type it.

And you still haven't shown causation. Interesting. Maybe when you get to high school they'll teach you about that.

 

[Natural Citizen]

And you still haven't shown causation. Interesting. Maybe when you get to high school they'll teach you about that.

Please. Do you think you're the first radical statist who thinks he's a conservative to whom I've had to explain our Keynesian monetary policy? It's been done. Many times over. None of the radical statist, self described "conservatives" understand monetary policy around here that I've seen, yet you're gonna pop off about causation to someone who actually does a great deal? Get real.

Lucky for you I keep a copy of my postings on the topic because I usually have to say it all twenty times over again to my confused 'conservative' friends who are so routinely indoctrinated with this foolish idea that we have capitalism. The socialists love you guys. Do you know that? Do you know why? I'll tell you why. It's because they're the only ones who can actually recognize a genuine socialist monetary policy when they see it. That's why. While today's modern, mainstream, American 'conservatives' believe they're defending capitalism, the socialists know that you're actually defending a socialist monetary policy that depends on the government telling the market what to do instead of the market telling the government what to do like it should be. Keynesianism, to be clear. Today's conservatives are routinely useful idiots to them. Why do you think they're so interested in it arguing with you? Wake up. We have interventionism. And they know it. We have a planned economy. And they know it. We have a welfare state. And they know it. We have inflationism (correctly defined means a surplus of printed currency and debt, price rise is only a consequence of it) And they know it. We have central economic planning by a central bank. And they know it. We have a belief in deficit financing. And they know it. It is so far removed from free-market capitalism that it’s foolish for people to label it capitalism. And they know that, too. That is a problem. The socialist recognize it for what it is. The real socialists, mind you. Why don't the conservatives? Why do conservatives refer to a patently socialist monetary policy as capitalism?

Anyway. This explanation I grabbed from the last time I had to do it around here. Spare_change, I think it was. I'm sure you now him, right? He's another one singing praise the Lord and pass the ammunition with a serving of some of that deficit spending that turns into trillions in revolving debt and never-ending interest payments from the taxpayers with what little bit of that 4 cent dollar they have left of they're spending power.


Here's how it works. The politicians aren't running on the idea of spending less. They instead say ''vote for me because I'll make sure that the government provides you with more free stuff than my opponent say's he will.' Of course, there's no such as a free lunch, is there? Of course there isn't. So to provide that supposed free stuff that they ran on, the politicians vote for the country to spend more than its income. This is called deficit spending. We used to run on cutting spending. What happened? To pay for that deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. So, let us learn what a bond is. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest. But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest. As we move through this process, the big banks are there taking a cut every step of the way. This is not by chance, which I'll explain.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? I'll tell you how. The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has a zero balance, because their isn't a single penny in it. They're creating 'currency''. Which is different than ''money''. I'll get to that later. Of course, when you or I write a check, the money has to be in there. Right? To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating ''money.” The Federal Reserve then hands those checks to the banks and at this point ''currency'' springs into existence. The banks then take that ''currency'' and buy more bonds at the next Treasury auction. You see?

Now. What is a check? A check is also an IOU. When you write a check, you're making a note that says here's my IOU for cash, all you have to do is go to the bank and pick it up. This particular process is very important that you understand, Mr. Spare_change. Pay attention here, please, because we're gonna come back to this later in my long-winded post to explain how this affects you and I.

So. Before moving on, let's recap what we have thus far. The Treasury issues IOU bonds. The banks then buy those IOU bonds with ''currency.'' The Federal Reserve then writes IOU checks and hands them to the banks in exchange for the Treasury's IOU Bonds. Thus ''currency'' is created. What's really happening here is that the Federal Reserve and the Treasury are just swapping IOUs using the banks as middle men and, presto, ''currency'' magically comes into existence. This process repeats over and over and over and over and over again, enriching the banks and indebting the public by raising the national debt. The end result is that there is a build-up of bond at the Federal Reserve and 'currency' at the Treasury. This process is where all paper ''currency'' comes from. The Federal Reserve and the government incorrectly call it ''base money'' because they don't know the difference between ''money'' and ''currency.'' It's correctly called ''base currency'' because it is not ''money.'' It is ''currency.''

''Money'' has to be a store of value and maintain its purchasing power over long periods of time.' But the base currency that is piling up as a consequence of the process which I've explained is nothing more than a receipt for a claim check on an IOU bond. So it's really nothing but a supply of numbers. So, then the Treasury now deposits the newly created ''currency'' into the various branches of the government and the politicians I mentioned in the very sentence here who were claiming they were going to give you free stuff say, 'hey thanks for that.'' Then the government does some deficit spending on public works, social programs, and, of course, your wars, Mr. Spare_change, to include paying weapons manufacturers and contractors, along with the soldiers' pays. The government employees, contractors, and soldiers then deposit their pay in the banks.

Now. When they deposit this ''currency'' into the bank, they're not actually depositing it into an account to be held safely in trust to them. Instead, you're actually loaning the bank your ''currency'' and they can do pretty much whatever they please with it to include gambling in the stock market, and loaning it out at a profit, of course. This is where the process of ''currency'' really gets cranking. This is where fractional reserve lending comes into play. Now, what does that mean? It means precisely what it says. It means that the banks reserve only a fraction of your deposit and they loan the rest out. Though rates vary, I'll use a 10% ratio here to explain the process. If you deposit 100 'dollars' into your account, the bank legally takes 90 'dollars' of it out and loans it out without telling you. The bank must hold 10 'dollars' of your deposit in reserve just in case you want some of it. These reserves are called 'vault cash.' Now, why does your bank account still say that you have 100 'dollars' if they stole 90 of it? It's because the bank left IOUs that it created called 'bank credit' in its place. That's why. To reference the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, they say that "Commercial banks create checkbook money whenever they grant a loan, simply by adding new deposit dollars in accounts on their books in exchange for a borrower's IOU." End quote. These are nothing but numbers that the banks type into their computers. And even though these 'bank credit' IOU numbers are very different from 'base currency' numbers, because they only exist in computers, they are still 'currency.' So now there is 190 dollars in existence. Created out of the 100 dollars deposited. You see?

Of course, the reason people take out loans from the bank is to buy something. So the borrower takes the 90 'dollars' that the bank loaned to him from your account and he pays the seller of the item. Then the seller deposits that money into his account and his bank loans out 90% of that 'currency' and leaves 'bank credits' in its place. So now theres' 271 'dollars' in existence from the original 90. This process repeats and repeats and repeats until it's under a 10% reserve ratio and all backed by 100 'dollars' of 'vault cash." Of course, some rates of deposits are only 3%. Some are 0%. The result is the expansion of the 'currency' supply by the banks. Of course, 'currency' is not 'money.'

So let us recap the second aspect of the process which I've just explained. When 'currency' is deposited into the banks, the banks get to lend it out and then it gets redeposited and lent out again, over and over and over again creating 'bank credit' all along the way. This is where the vast supply of our 'currency' comes from. In fact around 96% of all 'currency' that is created is created by the banking system.

Now. At first, massive amounts of 'currency' spewing into society might sound like a fun idea. At least until you remember that the prices of every day goods and services act as a sponge on an expanding 'currency' supply. The more 'currency' we have, the more prices will rise. This is where 'inflation' comes from. The true definition of inflation is an expansion of the currency supply. Rising prices are merely the symptom. Our entire 'currency' supply is nothing but a few dollars whipped up in this scam where the Treasury and the Federal Reserve swap glorified IOUs and a bunch of numbers that the banks just type into their computers. That's it. That's our entire currency supply. It's a set of numbers. Some of them printed and most oft hem typed. There is nothing else.

But...we work for some of that 'currency' supply. True wealth is your time. Which we trade away hour by hour, day by day, week by week, year by year, for numbers that somebody printed on pieces of paper and punched into bank computers. We are what gives the 'currency' its value, soldier boy. Here comes the bad part...which I shared earlier in the thread via the Keynesian economics explanation to your friend...who didn't watch it and pawned off some bunk graph in response. We work hard so that we can save some of that 'currency' so that we can pay the 'tax' collector in the United States known as the IRS. They then turn it over to the Treasury so that the Treasury can pay the principal plus interest on that bond that the Federal Reserve bought with a check which is drawn on an account that has nothing in it.

So. Let us recap the third aspect of this process which I've explained because this is where the system begins to rob the poor, middle class and seniors on a massive scale. Much of our taxes are not used on schools, roads, and public services. They're used to pay interest on bonds that the federal reserve bought with a check which was drawn on an account that has nothing in it. Here, the Federal Reserve is committing fraud. Recall that before the establishment of the Federal Reserve, there was no need for personal income tax. The Federal Reserve was created in 1913 and in that very same year, the constitution was amended to allow income tax via the 16th amendment by an unconstitutionl act of Congress. Do you really think that this was just a coincidence? The true solution is the practical view which is to to repeal it and get back to free market economy where the market tells the government what to do instead of the other way around, the statist way, where the government tells the market what to do. That's the actual 'conservative' solution. Wha you're saying is keep the same statist monetary policy except you're only wanting the neocons to benefit from it for your wars and endless militarism. Ask yourself how much income tax you've paid over your lifetime and realize that much of it has been siphoned away by those who own the system. We'll get to them after we learn the mumbo jumbo of the 'debt ceiling' delusion.

The debt ceiling delusion is based on a paradox. Meaning there was interest due on that bond, and there was interest due on ever one of those loans that the banks made. That means that there is interest due on every dollar in existence. Let's ask a question. If you borrow the very first dollar in existence and you promise to pay it back plus another dollar's worth of interest, where do you get the second dollar to pay the interest? The answer is that you have to borrow that dollar into existence and promise to pay it back with interest as well. So, now there are 2 dollars in existence, but you now owe 4. And so on, and so on, and so on, and so on. It keeps happening over and over and over again. The result is that there is never enough 'currency' to pay the debt. There is always more debt in the system than there is 'currency' in existence to pay the debt. Therefore the entire system is impossible. It is finite. It will come to an end one day. Right now the dollar is 98% down from 1913. 98%. We're almost there, Rambo, and you want to go create more debt. Are ya plum stupid? What would happen if the government stopped borrowing to do deficit spending? Are the payments on those Treasury bonds going to stop? What would happen if the public stopped borrowing and going deeper into debt? Are your house and car payments going to stop? No. They're not. There is a payment due every month on the principal plus the interest on every dollar in existence and those payments do not stop. If we stop borrowing, then no new 'currency' is created to replace the 'currency' that we used to make those payments. Whether you're making a payment on a loan or paying a tax to make a payment on a Treasury bond, the portion of the payment that goes to pay off the principal extinguishes that portion of the debt. BUT...the debt also extinguishes the 'currency.' When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other. If we just pay off the principal only, all of the loans and Treasury bonds that exist, the entire 'currency' supply vanishes. So, if we don't go deeper into debt every year, the whole thing goes into a deflationary collapse under the weight of those payments.

People always talk about balancing the budget, bringing down the debt, and living within our means. But they don't understand that this is deflationary. It is impossible to do under our current monetary system without collapsing the entire economy. This is why any talk of a debt ceiling is not only ridiculous, it's delusional. The system is designed to require ever-increasing levels of debt just to continue. And that's why politicians will always kick the can down the road and raise the so-called debt ceiling over and over again until the whole system finally collapses under its own weight. In other words, they don't want it to collapse under their watch. The founding fathers of the United States knew the dangers of central banking and they fought to free themselves from this very thing. The Revolutionary War started out as a tax revolt. But now we must pay tax just to have a monetary system. Having just suffered through the hyper-inflation of the continental dollar, which was printed into oblivion to fund the Revolutionary War, they understood the dangers of a debt based monetary system. So to protect future generations from institutional theft and out of control government, they wrote in the constitution that only gold and silver can be 'money' for the simple fact that you can't print it. Personally, I don't care what it is, but we need a competing currency if we're to survive. Our current system is not only unconstitutional, but it robs us of the liberty and prosperity that our forefathers fought and died for. And we're all feeling the effects of ignoring the constitution right now. By forcing more currency into circulation our purchasing power is diluted. Inflation is a slow, insidious stealth tax that is simply the result of this debt based monetary system.

This system empowers those who create the currency and receive it first because they get to spend it into circulation before it has an effect on the economy. They're stealing purchasing power from the poor, middle class, and seniors, and transferring it to the banks and the government every hour of every day of every week of every year. Because of this false monetary system. And the people at the top know it. To quote the Federal Reserve itself, ''The decrease in purchasing power incurred by holders of money due to inflation imparts gains to the issuers of money." This is a fraud. It is a pyramid scheme. It is a ponzi scheme. It is a scam. Our entire monetary policy is nothing more than a form of legalized theft.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of 6% as of November 2016. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks a 6% dividend., again, as of November 2016. As thed ollar crashes, it'll fluctuate. This is purposely complex and very few understand it. And that's okay. It's why people who do understand it take the time to explain it. Our system is Keynesian. And to quote Keynes, himself, ''By this means government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people, and not one man in a million will detect the theft." Presented correctly, however, anyone can understand the system regardless of the complexity of it.

So. On a final note, let us recap the entire context of this communication.

Step1: The government creates glorified IOUs via Treasury Bonds. These bonds increase our national debt and put the public on the hook to pay it back.

Step2: IOUs are swapped to create 'currency.' The Treasury sells the bonds to the banks. The banks then turn around and sell our national debt at a profit to the Federal Reserve, which they likely own. Again, the share holders receive annually a 6% dividend as of November 2016. From the Fed's own webpage. The Federal Reserve then opens its checkbook which is from an account without a penny in it and buys those IOU with their own IOW in the form of the check from an account with 0 balance.They give those checks to the banks and 'currency' is created out of thin air. Then the whole process repeats over and over and over again. This results in a build-up of bonds at the Federal Reserve and a build-up of currency at the Treasury which is really just a supply of numbers. The Treasury then deposits the numbers into the various branches of the government and then we get to step 3.

Step 3: The government spends the numbers on promises, public works, social programs, and yes, Mr. Spare_change...your wars. Your unconstitutional, undeclared, imperialist military occupation all over the world. Then government employees soldiers, military contractors, weapons manufacturers, and everybody else deposit their pay into the banks. Then we get to step 4.

Step 4: The banks multiply the numbers by magically creating more IOU through fractional reserve lending where they steal a portion of everyone's deposit and lend it out. That 'currency' gets redeposited and then a portion is stolen again. And the process repeats over andover and over again, magnifying the currency supply exponentially. Then we the people work for some of those numbers. Which brings us to step 5 where our numbers are taxed.

Step 5: We pay tax to the IRS who then turns out numbers over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on bonds that were purchased by the Federal Reserve with a check from nothing. Then we get to step 6. The debt ceiling delusion.

Step 6: The debt ceiling delusion.The system is designed to require ever-increasing levels of debt and will eventually collapse under its own weight because politicians and pundits always kick the can down the road so it doesn't happen on their watch. And finally, we get to step 7. Secret owners take their cut.

Step 7: The world's largest banks own the Federal Reserve. Those banks make a profit selling our national debt to the Federal Reserve. They make a profit when the Federal Reserve pays them interest on the reserves held at the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve pays them a 6% dividend (as of nov. 2016) on their ownership of the Federal Reserve.

This system is fundamentally evil. It funnels wealth from the working population to the government and the banking sector. It is the cause of the artificial booms and busts of modern economies and it causes great disparity of wealth between the rich and the poor, middle class, and seniors. The working class. And it is only possible because we no longer use real money. We use 'currency.' Worst of all, it is a form of enslavement. Bond is the root word of bondage. Whenever a government issues a bond, it is a promise to make us pay tax in the future.

I'll leave you with a great quote from a letter from George Washington, written to James Madison on the topic. He said, and correctly so, ''No generation has the right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence." By stealing from prosperity from tomorrow so that we can spend it today, we enslave ourselves and future generations.

This system relies in the public being ignorant to its function. And respectfully, you are one such person who is not only ignorant to it, but a useful idiot to its function with your constant warmongering against people who haven't done anything to us. Your wars cost money that we don't have. They are unconstitutional absent any congressional declaration. And I've just explained how it gets paid for.


Spare_change said:

Second ----- " ... Bring the troops home and build bases in our own country..." makes very poor fiscal sense. It is much cheaper to preposition assets than it is to keep them in-country and then transfer them when a crisis arrives. I'm not even going to discuss the tactical folly of such an approach (you obviously have no idea of the length of time necessary to ready a unit for transfer)


Moot. Refer to the above.

And I'll have you know that I often see the battlefield in a warehouse sized sandbox full of toy soldiers and trucks before any troop ever sets foot on a foreign land. That's all I'll say about that here. Ever.


Spare_change said:


Let's create a fictional scenario ..... Russia decides to attack Germany. If the US isn't there, they walk thru Germany in about 3 weeks. (Yeah, I used to work at Plans in the Pentagon). Then, the US is faced with a choice -- attempt to dislodge an entrenched army from Germany (keeping in mind that we can't put assets in place in less than 3 months), or allow them to own Germany. Keep in mind it took from 2 Aug 90 (the date of Iraq invasion of Kuwait) until 17 Jan 91 to muster the resources necessary for Desert Storm (and that's with troops stationed much closer to Baghdad than Kansas City).

Of course, we would bluster and stomp our foot, but the liberals wouldn't allow us to actually respond. We would have abrogated our responsibility under NATO. The minute we do that - the rest of Europe is threatened. It is nonsensical - and quite naive - to believe that the military resources exist in Europe to stop a Russian advance.

Then, all of Europe and half of Asia is mustered against us. It only becomes a matter of time - to re-arm and re-trench - until they are at our shores - much stronger and much more emboldened by our "cowardice" in the face of a challenge. So, we end up fighting in the streets of Charleston, SC (the most likely point of initial entry into the US for an invading army) or Richmond, VA or any of a number of other points of vulnerability.


No. Let's not. That's the nonsense that drives the wasteful creation of 'currency' for constant militarism ad every other welfare out of thin air. Fear mongering. Remember weapons of mass destruction? That was a fictional scenario, too, and look what that got us. Remember Gulf of Tonkin? You neocons always need a boogyman to justify over 900 bases in countries where people haven't even done anything to us, right? You're blowing up buildings and bridges just to pay to have it rebuilt form worthless printed debt and wiping put the people each and every step of the way. You're no different than the anyone on the left whom you'd call a statist.


Spare_change said:

So, like it or not - we can fight them here OR we can prevent them from even beginning.


No. We can mind our own business and start being a little concerned with the wiping out of the savings of the entire American population just so you can play with your boom stick and install shadow governments abroad in order to steal their resources. None of it is constitutional unless you can provide a declaration of war. Real defense spending is building bases here at home.

All your words seem to indicate is that you want to send troops all over the world on government created debt in order to invite blowback. And make no mistake, that militarism is why we get blowback such as 911. This horse puckey about them hating us for our freedom is just that. Horse puckey. They hate us because we're constantly bombing their countries into oblivion and installing our own shadow governments in order to rape them for their resources. I don't doubt that much of the standard neocon saber rattling from the general population has something to do with the fact that they're brown either.

Republicans used to run and get elected on ending the wars. What happened?

I'll tell you what happened. It's no irony that a century of warfare has been accompanied by a century of Keynesian central banking where the government dictates the economy.

 

[USNavyVet]

And you still haven't shown causation. Interesting. Maybe when you get to high school they'll teach you about that.

Please. Do you think you're the first radical statist who thinks he's a conservative to whom I've had to explain our Keynesian monetary policy? It's been done. Many times over. None of the radical statist, self described "conservatives" understand monetary policy around here that I've seen, yet you're gonna pop off about causation to someone who actually does a great deal? Get real.

Lucky for you I keep a copy of my postings on the topic because I usually have to say it all twenty times over again to my confused 'conservative' friends who are so routinely indoctrinated with this foolish idea that we have capitalism. The socialists love you guys. Do you know that? Do you know why? I'll tell you why. It's because they're the only ones who can actually recognize a genuine socialist monetary policy when they see it. That's why. While today's modern, mainstream, American 'conservatives' believe they're defending capitalism, the socialists know that you're actually defending a socialist monetary policy that depends on the government telling the market what to do instead of the market telling the government what to do like it should be. Keynesianism, to be clear. Today's conservatives are routinely useful idiots to them. Why do you think they're so interested in it arguing with you? Wake up. We have interventionism. And they know it. We have a planned economy. And they know it. We have a welfare state. And they know it. We have inflationism (correctly defined means a surplus of printed currency and debt, price rise is only a consequence of it) And they know it. We have central economic planning by a central bank. And they know it. We have a belief in deficit financing. And they know it. It is so far removed from free-market capitalism that it’s foolish for people to label it capitalism. And they know that, too. That is a problem. The socialist recognize it for what it is. The real socialists, mind you. Why don't the conservatives? Why do conservatives refer to a patently socialist monetary policy as capitalism?

Anyway. This explanation I grabbed from the last time I had to do it around here. Spare_change, I think it was. I'm sure you now him, right? He's another one singing praise the Lord and pass the ammunition with a serving of some of that deficit spending that turns into trillions in revolving debt and never-ending interest payments from the taxpayers with what little bit of that 4 cent dollar they have left of they're spending power.


Here's how it works. The politicians aren't running on the idea of spending less. They instead say ''vote for me because I'll make sure that the government provides you with more free stuff than my opponent say's he will.' Of course, there's no such as a free lunch, is there? Of course there isn't. So to provide that supposed free stuff that they ran on, the politicians vote for the country to spend more than its income. This is called deficit spending. We used to run on cutting spending. What happened? To pay for that deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. So, let us learn what a bond is. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest. But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest. As we move through this process, the big banks are there taking a cut every step of the way. This is not by chance, which I'll explain.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? I'll tell you how. The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has a zero balance, because their isn't a single penny in it. They're creating 'currency''. Which is different than ''money''. I'll get to that later. Of course, when you or I write a check, the money has to be in there. Right? To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating ''money.” The Federal Reserve then hands those checks to the banks and at this point ''currency'' springs into existence. The banks then take that ''currency'' and buy more bonds at the next Treasury auction. You see?

Now. What is a check? A check is also an IOU. When you write a check, you're making a note that says here's my IOU for cash, all you have to do is go to the bank and pick it up. This particular process is very important that you understand, Mr. Spare_change. Pay attention here, please, because we're gonna come back to this later in my long-winded post to explain how this affects you and I.

So. Before moving on, let's recap what we have thus far. The Treasury issues IOU bonds. The banks then buy those IOU bonds with ''currency.'' The Federal Reserve then writes IOU checks and hands them to the banks in exchange for the Treasury's IOU Bonds. Thus ''currency'' is created. What's really happening here is that the Federal Reserve and the Treasury are just swapping IOUs using the banks as middle men and, presto, ''currency'' magically comes into existence. This process repeats over and over and over and over and over again, enriching the banks and indebting the public by raising the national debt. The end result is that there is a build-up of bond at the Federal Reserve and 'currency' at the Treasury. This process is where all paper ''currency'' comes from. The Federal Reserve and the government incorrectly call it ''base money'' because they don't know the difference between ''money'' and ''currency.'' It's correctly called ''base currency'' because it is not ''money.'' It is ''currency.''

''Money'' has to be a store of value and maintain its purchasing power over long periods of time.' But the base currency that is piling up as a consequence of the process which I've explained is nothing more than a receipt for a claim check on an IOU bond. So it's really nothing but a supply of numbers. So, then the Treasury now deposits the newly created ''currency'' into the various branches of the government and the politicians I mentioned in the very sentence here who were claiming they were going to give you free stuff say, 'hey thanks for that.'' Then the government does some deficit spending on public works, social programs, and, of course, your wars, Mr. Spare_change, to include paying weapons manufacturers and contractors, along with the soldiers' pays. The government employees, contractors, and soldiers then deposit their pay in the banks.

Now. When they deposit this ''currency'' into the bank, they're not actually depositing it into an account to be held safely in trust to them. Instead, you're actually loaning the bank your ''currency'' and they can do pretty much whatever they please with it to include gambling in the stock market, and loaning it out at a profit, of course. This is where the process of ''currency'' really gets cranking. This is where fractional reserve lending comes into play. Now, what does that mean? It means precisely what it says. It means that the banks reserve only a fraction of your deposit and they loan the rest out. Though rates vary, I'll use a 10% ratio here to explain the process. If you deposit 100 'dollars' into your account, the bank legally takes 90 'dollars' of it out and loans it out without telling you. The bank must hold 10 'dollars' of your deposit in reserve just in case you want some of it. These reserves are called 'vault cash.' Now, why does your bank account still say that you have 100 'dollars' if they stole 90 of it? It's because the bank left IOUs that it created called 'bank credit' in its place. That's why. To reference the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, they say that "Commercial banks create checkbook money whenever they grant a loan, simply by adding new deposit dollars in accounts on their books in exchange for a borrower's IOU." End quote. These are nothing but numbers that the banks type into their computers. And even though these 'bank credit' IOU numbers are very different from 'base currency' numbers, because they only exist in computers, they are still 'currency.' So now there is 190 dollars in existence. Created out of the 100 dollars deposited. You see?

Of course, the reason people take out loans from the bank is to buy something. So the borrower takes the 90 'dollars' that the bank loaned to him from your account and he pays the seller of the item. Then the seller deposits that money into his account and his bank loans out 90% of that 'currency' and leaves 'bank credits' in its place. So now theres' 271 'dollars' in existence from the original 90. This process repeats and repeats and repeats until it's under a 10% reserve ratio and all backed by 100 'dollars' of 'vault cash." Of course, some rates of deposits are only 3%. Some are 0%. The result is the expansion of the 'currency' supply by the banks. Of course, 'currency' is not 'money.'

So let us recap the second aspect of the process which I've just explained. When 'currency' is deposited into the banks, the banks get to lend it out and then it gets redeposited and lent out again, over and over and over again creating 'bank credit' all along the way. This is where the vast supply of our 'currency' comes from. In fact around 96% of all 'currency' that is created is created by the banking system.

Now. At first, massive amounts of 'currency' spewing into society might sound like a fun idea. At least until you remember that the prices of every day goods and services act as a sponge on an expanding 'currency' supply. The more 'currency' we have, the more prices will rise. This is where 'inflation' comes from. The true definition of inflation is an expansion of the currency supply. Rising prices are merely the symptom. Our entire 'currency' supply is nothing but a few dollars whipped up in this scam where the Treasury and the Federal Reserve swap glorified IOUs and a bunch of numbers that the banks just type into their computers. That's it. That's our entire currency supply. It's a set of numbers. Some of them printed and most oft hem typed. There is nothing else.

But...we work for some of that 'currency' supply. True wealth is your time. Which we trade away hour by hour, day by day, week by week, year by year, for numbers that somebody printed on pieces of paper and punched into bank computers. We are what gives the 'currency' its value, soldier boy. Here comes the bad part...which I shared earlier in the thread via the Keynesian economics explanation to your friend...who didn't watch it and pawned off some bunk graph in response. We work hard so that we can save some of that 'currency' so that we can pay the 'tax' collector in the United States known as the IRS. They then turn it over to the Treasury so that the Treasury can pay the principal plus interest on that bond that the Federal Reserve bought with a check which is drawn on an account that has nothing in it.

So. Let us recap the third aspect of this process which I've explained because this is where the system begins to rob the poor, middle class and seniors on a massive scale. Much of our taxes are not used on schools, roads, and public services. They're used to pay interest on bonds that the federal reserve bought with a check which was drawn on an account that has nothing in it. Here, the Federal Reserve is committing fraud. Recall that before the establishment of the Federal Reserve, there was no need for personal income tax. The Federal Reserve was created in 1913 and in that very same year, the constitution was amended to allow income tax via the 16th amendment by an unconstitutionl act of Congress. Do you really think that this was just a coincidence? The true solution is the practical view which is to to repeal it and get back to free market economy where the market tells the government what to do instead of the other way around, the statist way, where the government tells the market what to do. That's the actual 'conservative' solution. Wha you're saying is keep the same statist monetary policy except you're only wanting the neocons to benefit from it for your wars and endless militarism. Ask yourself how much income tax you've paid over your lifetime and realize that much of it has been siphoned away by those who own the system. We'll get to them after we learn the mumbo jumbo of the 'debt ceiling' delusion.

The debt ceiling delusion is based on a paradox. Meaning there was interest due on that bond, and there was interest due on ever one of those loans that the banks made. That means that there is interest due on every dollar in existence. Let's ask a question. If you borrow the very first dollar in existence and you promise to pay it back plus another dollar's worth of interest, where do you get the second dollar to pay the interest? The answer is that you have to borrow that dollar into existence and promise to pay it back with interest as well. So, now there are 2 dollars in existence, but you now owe 4. And so on, and so on, and so on, and so on. It keeps happening over and over and over again. The result is that there is never enough 'currency' to pay the debt. There is always more debt in the system than there is 'currency' in existence to pay the debt. Therefore the entire system is impossible. It is finite. It will come to an end one day. Right now the dollar is 98% down from 1913. 98%. We're almost there, Rambo, and you want to go create more debt. Are ya plum stupid? What would happen if the government stopped borrowing to do deficit spending? Are the payments on those Treasury bonds going to stop? What would happen if the public stopped borrowing and going deeper into debt? Are your house and car payments going to stop? No. They're not. There is a payment due every month on the principal plus the interest on every dollar in existence and those payments do not stop. If we stop borrowing, then no new 'currency' is created to replace the 'currency' that we used to make those payments. Whether you're making a payment on a loan or paying a tax to make a payment on a Treasury bond, the portion of the payment that goes to pay off the principal extinguishes that portion of the debt. BUT...the debt also extinguishes the 'currency.' When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other. If we just pay off the principal only, all of the loans and Treasury bonds that exist, the entire 'currency' supply vanishes. So, if we don't go deeper into debt every year, the whole thing goes into a deflationary collapse under the weight of those payments.

People always talk about balancing the budget, bringing down the debt, and living within our means. But they don't understand that this is deflationary. It is impossible to do under our current monetary system without collapsing the entire economy. This is why any talk of a debt ceiling is not only ridiculous, it's delusional. The system is designed to require ever-increasing levels of debt just to continue. And that's why politicians will always kick the can down the road and raise the so-called debt ceiling over and over again until the whole system finally collapses under its own weight. In other words, they don't want it to collapse under their watch. The founding fathers of the United States knew the dangers of central banking and they fought to free themselves from this very thing. The Revolutionary War started out as a tax revolt. But now we must pay tax just to have a monetary system. Having just suffered through the hyper-inflation of the continental dollar, which was printed into oblivion to fund the Revolutionary War, they understood the dangers of a debt based monetary system. So to protect future generations from institutional theft and out of control government, they wrote in the constitution that only gold and silver can be 'money' for the simple fact that you can't print it. Personally, I don't care what it is, but we need a competing currency if we're to survive. Our current system is not only unconstitutional, but it robs us of the liberty and prosperity that our forefathers fought and died for. And we're all feeling the effects of ignoring the constitution right now. By forcing more currency into circulation our purchasing power is diluted. Inflation is a slow, insidious stealth tax that is simply the result of this debt based monetary system.

This system empowers those who create the currency and receive it first because they get to spend it into circulation before it has an effect on the economy. They're stealing purchasing power from the poor, middle class, and seniors, and transferring it to the banks and the government every hour of every day of every week of every year. Because of this false monetary system. And the people at the top know it. To quote the Federal Reserve itself, ''The decrease in purchasing power incurred by holders of money due to inflation imparts gains to the issuers of money." This is a fraud. It is a pyramid scheme. It is a ponzi scheme. It is a scam. Our entire monetary policy is nothing more than a form of legalized theft.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of 6% as of November 2016. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks a 6% dividend., again, as of November 2016. As thed ollar crashes, it'll fluctuate. This is purposely complex and very few understand it. And that's okay. It's why people who do understand it take the time to explain it. Our system is Keynesian. And to quote Keynes, himself, ''By this means government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people, and not one man in a million will detect the theft." Presented correctly, however, anyone can understand the system regardless of the complexity of it.

So. On a final note, let us recap the entire context of this communication.

Step1: The government creates glorified IOUs via Treasury Bonds. These bonds increase our national debt and put the public on the hook to pay it back.

Step2: IOUs are swapped to create 'currency.' The Treasury sells the bonds to the banks. The banks then turn around and sell our national debt at a profit to the Federal Reserve, which they likely own. Again, the share holders receive annually a 6% dividend as of November 2016. From the Fed's own webpage. The Federal Reserve then opens its checkbook which is from an account without a penny in it and buys those IOU with their own IOW in the form of the check from an account with 0 balance.They give those checks to the banks and 'currency' is created out of thin air. Then the whole process repeats over and over and over again. This results in a build-up of bonds at the Federal Reserve and a build-up of currency at the Treasury which is really just a supply of numbers. The Treasury then deposits the numbers into the various branches of the government and then we get to step 3.

Step 3: The government spends the numbers on promises, public works, social programs, and yes, Mr. Spare_change...your wars. Your unconstitutional, undeclared, imperialist military occupation all over the world. Then government employees soldiers, military contractors, weapons manufacturers, and everybody else deposit their pay into the banks. Then we get to step 4.

Step 4: The banks multiply the numbers by magically creating more IOU through fractional reserve lending where they steal a portion of everyone's deposit and lend it out. That 'currency' gets redeposited and then a portion is stolen again. And the process repeats over andover and over again, magnifying the currency supply exponentially. Then we the people work for some of those numbers. Which brings us to step 5 where our numbers are taxed.

Step 5: We pay tax to the IRS who then turns out numbers over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on bonds that were purchased by the Federal Reserve with a check from nothing. Then we get to step 6. The debt ceiling delusion.

Step 6: The debt ceiling delusion.The system is designed to require ever-increasing levels of debt and will eventually collapse under its own weight because politicians and pundits always kick the can down the road so it doesn't happen on their watch. And finally, we get to step 7. Secret owners take their cut.

Step 7: The world's largest banks own the Federal Reserve. Those banks make a profit selling our national debt to the Federal Reserve. They make a profit when the Federal Reserve pays them interest on the reserves held at the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve pays them a 6% dividend (as of nov. 2016) on their ownership of the Federal Reserve.

This system is fundamentally evil. It funnels wealth from the working population to the government and the banking sector. It is the cause of the artificial booms and busts of modern economies and it causes great disparity of wealth between the rich and the poor, middle class, and seniors. The working class. And it is only possible because we no longer use real money. We use 'currency.' Worst of all, it is a form of enslavement. Bond is the root word of bondage. Whenever a government issues a bond, it is a promise to make us pay tax in the future.

I'll leave you with a great quote from a letter from George Washington, written to James Madison on the topic. He said, and correctly so, ''No generation has the right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence." By stealing from prosperity from tomorrow so that we can spend it today, we enslave ourselves and future generations.

This system relies in the public being ignorant to its function. And respectfully, you are one such person who is not only ignorant to it, but a useful idiot to its function with your constant warmongering against people who haven't done anything to us. Your wars cost money that we don't have. They are unconstitutional absent any congressional declaration. And I've just explained how it gets paid for.


Spare_change said:

Second ----- " ... Bring the troops home and build bases in our own country..." makes very poor fiscal sense. It is much cheaper to preposition assets than it is to keep them in-country and then transfer them when a crisis arrives. I'm not even going to discuss the tactical folly of such an approach (you obviously have no idea of the length of time necessary to ready a unit for transfer)


Moot. Refer to the above.

And I'll have you know that I often see the battlefield in a warehouse sized sandbox full of toy soldiers and trucks before any troop ever sets foot on a foreign land. That's all I'll say about that here. Ever.


Spare_change said:


Let's create a fictional scenario ..... Russia decides to attack Germany. If the US isn't there, they walk thru Germany in about 3 weeks. (Yeah, I used to work at Plans in the Pentagon). Then, the US is faced with a choice -- attempt to dislodge an entrenched army from Germany (keeping in mind that we can't put assets in place in less than 3 months), or allow them to own Germany. Keep in mind it took from 2 Aug 90 (the date of Iraq invasion of Kuwait) until 17 Jan 91 to muster the resources necessary for Desert Storm (and that's with troops stationed much closer to Baghdad than Kansas City).

Of course, we would bluster and stomp our foot, but the liberals wouldn't allow us to actually respond. We would have abrogated our responsibility under NATO. The minute we do that - the rest of Europe is threatened. It is nonsensical - and quite naive - to believe that the military resources exist in Europe to stop a Russian advance.

Then, all of Europe and half of Asia is mustered against us. It only becomes a matter of time - to re-arm and re-trench - until they are at our shores - much stronger and much more emboldened by our "cowardice" in the face of a challenge. So, we end up fighting in the streets of Charleston, SC (the most likely point of initial entry into the US for an invading army) or Richmond, VA or any of a number of other points of vulnerability.


No. Let's not. That's the nonsense that drives the wasteful creation of 'currency' for constant militarism ad every other welfare out of thin air. Fear mongering. Remember weapons of mass destruction? That was a fictional scenario, too, and look what that got us. Remember Gulf of Tonkin? You neocons always need a boogyman to justify over 900 bases in countries where people haven't even done anything to us, right? You're blowing up buildings and bridges just to pay to have it rebuilt form worthless printed debt and wiping put the people each and every step of the way. You're no different than the anyone on the left whom you'd call a statist.


Spare_change said:

So, like it or not - we can fight them here OR we can prevent them from even beginning.


No. We can mind our own business and start being a little concerned with the wiping out of the savings of the entire American population just so you can play with your boom stick and install shadow governments abroad in order to steal their resources. None of it is constitutional unless you can provide a declaration of war. Real defense spending is building bases here at home.

All your words seem to indicate is that you want to send troops all over the world on government created debt in order to invite blowback. And make no mistake, that militarism is why we get blowback such as 911. This horse puckey about them hating us for our freedom is just that. Horse puckey. They hate us because we're constantly bombing their countries into oblivion and installing our own shadow governments in order to rape them for their resources. I don't doubt that much of the standard neocon saber rattling from the general population has something to do with the fact that they're brown either.

Republicans used to run and get elected on ending the wars. What happened?

I'll tell you what happened. It's no irony that a century of warfare has been accompanied by a century of Keynesian central banking where the government dictates the economy.

You think I'm a radical statist? lol. Idiot.

 

[Natural Citizen]

You think I'm a radical statist? lol. Idiot.

I thought you were interested in causation. I give it to you thoroughly and you're no longer interested in it?

Right now you're a waste of my bandwidth. If you ask for something and I give it to you thoroughly, it's common courtesy to acknowledge it. What's your problem?

Show us that conservative wisdom of yours. Tell us why you think your assumption about causation as a response to my words was a conservative one.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

I. The only reason the dollar hasn't tanked yet is because the politicians keep kicking that can down the road so it doesn't tank on their watch. It will fail. It is not a question of if. It's a question of when.

The dollar is a mess but so are the other major currencies. Fiat money will collapse though it could be 20 years away.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Remember this about the crypto-currencies. THERE ARE NO BARRIERS TO ENTRY. Anyone cal start up a bitcoin clone and hundreds of people have!!! Cryptos are not fiat money, they are SUPER-fiat money.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

If we really want to get rid of fiat money, let's go back to the gold standard. The world was on it for thousands of years till WW1 happened. There is no need for bitcoin. BTC is a scam.