Bryan Fischer: "No More Mosques, Period"

[goldcatt]

A truly astounding thought. I heard an author the other day (she wrote the book about the angry god). She is Muslim and considered "apostate." She lives under a constant threat of death, accordingly. She too said that there is no "radical" Islam versus "moderate" Islam. There is but one Islam.

well, ask Kalam, the radicals are not Muslim, they are apostate

But there are no radicals islamists. There is but one Islam. All who disagree (presumably including Kalam, therefore) are the ones who are actually guilty of apostasy.

Unless Daniel Pipes is right and there is a division. Of course, that would mean that Wafa Sultan (the author of the the book, A God Who Hates) who is herself Muslim born and raised is the one who is mistaken, misguided and wrong.

Hmmm...has anybody ever been mistaken, misguided and wrong about their religion?

 

[Liability]

well, ask Kalam, the radicals are not Muslim, they are apostate

But there are no radicals islamists. There is but one Islam. All who disagree (presumably including Kalam, therefore) are the ones who are actually guilty of apostasy.

Unless Daniel Pipes is right and there is a division. Of course, that would mean that Wafa Sultan (the author of the the book, A God Who Hates) who is herself Muslim born and raised is the one who is mistaken, misguided and wrong.

Hmmm...has anybody ever been mistaken, misguided and wrong about their religion?

Undoubtedly. But the burka does make her perspective seem a bit more valid, as does the death penalty for speaking contrary thoughts out loud.

 

[goldcatt]

But there are no radicals islamists. There is but one Islam. All who disagree (presumably including Kalam, therefore) are the ones who are actually guilty of apostasy.

Unless Daniel Pipes is right and there is a division. Of course, that would mean that Wafa Sultan (the author of the the book, A God Who Hates) who is herself Muslim born and raised is the one who is mistaken, misguided and wrong.

Hmmm...has anybody ever been mistaken, misguided and wrong about their religion?

Undoubtedly. But the burka does make her perspective seem a bit more valid, as does the death penalty for speaking contrary thoughts out loud.

Good point. I'll have to read that book now and see what she has to say. Thanks a lot pal, homework!

 

[Liability]

Hmmm...has anybody ever been mistaken, misguided and wrong about their religion?

Undoubtedly. But the burka does make her perspective seem a bit more valid, as does the death penalty for speaking contrary thoughts out loud.

Good point. I'll have to read that book now and see what she has to say. Thanks a lot pal, homework!

LOL. I tell ya what. I just now downloaded the free first chapter (or part of the first chapter?) on my Nook. If I like it, I'll buy it, too. Maybe we can compare notes. Homework all around. Then drinks. Tha Malcontent runs an e-tavern around here somewhere, too. Drynks after homework.

 

[Kalam]

Wafa Sultan never immersed herself in any sort of study of Islamic theology or jurisprudential thought. Her criticisms are of the so-called "Islamic World"; she lacks the knowledge to distinguish between the actual teachings of Islam and the syncretized, jahili version of "Islam" we see practiced more widely today. She and similar writers are chiefly opportunists who use the Wests' ignorant fear to generate book sales.

This book is the most accurate description of the status of Islam today. It's also quite concise for a work of such magnitude:
Ma'alim fi al-Tariq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kalam]

All who disagree (presumably including Kalam, therefore) are the ones who are actually guilty of apostasy.

 

[Kalam]

You dont eat an elephant all at once, Islam will have to be dismantled one mosque at a time .
There is no Islam that does not subscribe to the subjugation and eradication of all non muslims according to its founding documents,

A truly astounding thought. I heard an author the other day (she wrote the book about the angry god). She is Muslim and considered "apostate." She lives under a constant threat of death, accordingly. She too said that there is no "radical" Islam versus "moderate" Islam. There is but one Islam.

well, ask Kalam, the radicals are not Muslim, they are apostate

Most apostates aren't radicals.

 

[DiveCon]

A truly astounding thought. I heard an author the other day (she wrote the book about the angry god). She is Muslim and considered "apostate." She lives under a constant threat of death, accordingly. She too said that there is no "radical" Islam versus "moderate" Islam. There is but one Islam.

well, ask Kalam, the radicals are not Muslim, they are apostate

Most apostates aren't radicals.

so the radicals ARE Muslims?

 

[Kalam]

well, ask Kalam, the radicals are not Muslim, they are apostate

Most apostates aren't radicals.

so the radicals ARE Muslims?

Which ones?

For the most part, we aren't fit to judge who is and isn't a Muslim. When so-called Muslim leaders forsake Shari'ah in favor of despotism or Western-style democracy, however, they have clearly forsaken Islam.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Kalam does not have the authority to label a muslim an apostate.

 

[DiveCon]

Most apostates aren't radicals.

so the radicals ARE Muslims?

Which ones?

For the most part, we aren't fit to judge who is and isn't a Muslim. When so-called Muslim leaders forsake Shari'ah in favor of despotism or Western-style democracy, however, they have clearly forsaken Islam.

i asked you

see the ? at the end?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

so the radicals ARE Muslims?

Which ones?

For the most part, we aren't fit to judge who is and isn't a Muslim. When so-called Muslim leaders forsake Shari'ah in favor of despotism or Western-style democracy, however, they have clearly forsaken Islam.

i asked you

see the ? at the end?

I wonder if in "Kalam's Islam" there is any punishment for leaving Islam like there is in the real Islam ?

 

[Kalam]

Which ones?

For the most part, we aren't fit to judge who is and isn't a Muslim. When so-called Muslim leaders forsake Shari'ah in favor of despotism or Western-style democracy, however, they have clearly forsaken Islam.

i asked you

see the ? at the end?

I wonder if in "Kalam's Islam" there is any punishment for leaving Islam like there is in the real Islam ?

There is one Islam and you know nothing of it.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: A Bedouin gave the Pledge of allegiance to Allah's Apostle for Islam and the Bedouin got a fever, whereupon he said to the Prophet, "Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet refused. He came to him (again) saying, "Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet refused. Then (the Bedouin) left (Madinah). Allah's Apostle said: "Madinah is like a pair of bellows: it expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good." - Sahih Bukhari, Ahkam, no. 89​

It is a capital offense if the act of irtidad involves fasad.

 

[Kalam]

Kalam does no have the authority to label a muslim an apostate.

Source?

 

[Kalam]

so the radicals ARE Muslims?

Which ones?

For the most part, we aren't fit to judge who is and isn't a Muslim. When so-called Muslim leaders forsake Shari'ah in favor of despotism or Western-style democracy, however, they have clearly forsaken Islam.

i asked you

see the ? at the end?

You'll have to be more specific. That's why I asked.

 

[DiveCon]

Which ones?

For the most part, we aren't fit to judge who is and isn't a Muslim. When so-called Muslim leaders forsake Shari'ah in favor of despotism or Western-style democracy, however, they have clearly forsaken Islam.

i asked you

see the ? at the end?

You'll have to be more specific. That's why I asked.

any of them

tell us which radicals are apostate and which ones arent

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

i asked you

see the ? at the end?

I wonder if in "Kalam's Islam" there is any punishment for leaving Islam like there is in the real Islam ?

There is one Islam and you know nothing of it.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: A Bedouin gave the Pledge of allegiance to Allah's Apostle for Islam and the Bedouin got a fever, whereupon he said to the Prophet, "Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet refused. He came to him (again) saying, "Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet refused. Then (the Bedouin) left (Madinah). Allah's Apostle said: "Madinah is like a pair of bellows: it expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good." - Sahih Bukhari, Ahkam, no. 89​

It is a capital offense if the act of irtidad involves fasad.

Why not use the Quran to illustrate the penalty for apostasy in Islam?

 

[Kalam]

I wonder if in "Kalam's Islam" there is any punishment for leaving Islam like there is in the real Islam ?

There is one Islam and you know nothing of it.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: A Bedouin gave the Pledge of allegiance to Allah's Apostle for Islam and the Bedouin got a fever, whereupon he said to the Prophet, "Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet refused. He came to him (again) saying, "Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet refused. Then (the Bedouin) left (Madinah). Allah's Apostle said: "Madinah is like a pair of bellows: it expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good." - Sahih Bukhari, Ahkam, no. 89​

It is a capital offense if the act of irtidad involves fasad.

Why not use the Quran to illustrate the penalty for apostasy in Islam?

There is no specifically stated penalty for irtidad in the Qur'an. Even Maududi (RA) acknowledges that only those who "instigated apostasy" were deserving of death according to his interpretation of At-Tawbah.

The hadith above shows that execution cannot be the hadd punishment for irtidad; Rasul Allah (SAWS) would have applied it himself in that case.

 

[Kalam]

i asked you

see the ? at the end?

You'll have to be more specific. That's why I asked.

any of them

tell us which radicals are apostate and which ones arent

I don't know which specific groups you consider radical.

 

[DiveCon]

You'll have to be more specific. That's why I asked.

any of them

tell us which radicals are apostate and which ones arent

I don't know which specific groups you consider radical.

well, for a start, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah