Can Paris summit save two-state solution?

[P F Tinmore]

Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.

I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.

Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.

How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.

The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.

EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.
​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f

Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.

This is massive.

Now read what happened:

From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.

On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.

He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.​

This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.

The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.

The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.

So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.

Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.

And do you know when and WHY this "brutal" blockade and occupation began?

1948.

2000.

1994.

 

[Hollie]

Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.

On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?

You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.

The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?

Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.

Splitting hairs.... They have been there since the time of Moses.

Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?

Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.

Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.

I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.

Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.

How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.

The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.

EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.
​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f

Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.

This is massive.

Now read what happened:

From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.

On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.

He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.​

This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.

The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.

The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.

So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.

Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.

Then they should have accepted the multiple peace deals, because that would have ended the blockade.

Stop giving excuses. That's childish. No more excuses, thanks.

Remember when the blockade was to be lifted when schilit (SP?) was released.

That lie came and went.

You're upset that acts of Islamic terrorism weren't rewarded.

Pal'istanian Mentality™

 

[Andylusion]

How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.

The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.

EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.
​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f

Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.

This is massive.

Now read what happened:

From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.

On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.

He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.​

This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.

The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.

The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.

So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.

Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.

And do you know when and WHY this "brutal" blockade and occupation began?

1948.

2000.

1994.

The Israelis attempted to loosen the blockade, and allowed things in like concrete for example. The result was that Hamas built massive underground tunnel networks so they could attack places, and escape without being seen. That actually created a physical, literal, terrorist network.

So as any nation would do, they reinforced the blockade again.

 

[Andylusion]

Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.

On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?

You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.

The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?

Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.

Splitting hairs.... They have been there since the time of Moses.

Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?

Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.

Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.

I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.

Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.

How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.

The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.

EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.
​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f

Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.

This is massive.

Now read what happened:

From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.

On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.

He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.​

This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.

The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.

The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.

So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.

Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.

Then they should have accepted the multiple peace deals, because that would have ended the blockade.

Stop giving excuses. That's childish. No more excuses, thanks.

Israelis and Palestinians both need to look forward now, not back.

Great idea. Good luck with that.

 

[Hollie]

Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.

On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?

You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.

The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?

Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.

Splitting hairs.... They have been there since the time of Moses.

Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?

Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.

Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.

I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.

Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.

How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.

The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.

EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.
​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f

Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.

This is massive.

Now read what happened:

From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.

On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.

He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.​

This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.

The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.

The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.

So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.

Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.

Then they should have accepted the multiple peace deals, because that would have ended the blockade.

Stop giving excuses. That's childish. No more excuses, thanks.

Israelis and Palestinians both need to look forward now, not back.

From a sidebar found at Post-Gazette.com:

The United Nations Development Program, in a report published last year, described in often painful detail some of the factors that have contributed to the decline of science and the rise of extremism in Arab societies. Among them are:

- Increases in average income have been lower in the Arab world than anywhere else for 20 years, except for the poorest African countries. "If such trends continue...it will take the average Arab citizen 140 years to double his or her income, whole other regions are set to achieve that level in a matter of less than 10 years," the report noted. One in 5 Arabs lives on less than $2 a day.

- Arab unemployment is the highest in the developing world.

- Surveys show more than half of young Arabs want to leave their countries and live in theUnited States or other industrialized countries where opportunities are better.

- The Arab brain drain is the world's worst, with about 25 percent of new graduates in science, medicine and engineering emigrating each year.

- About 1 in 4 Arab adults can neither read nor write. This is a particular problem among Arab women, 50 per cent of whom are illiterate. Many children do not attend school.

- The quality of education has declined, with many schools teaching mainly interpretations of the Koran, rather than other knowledge or skills.

- Less than 0.6 per cent of Arabs use the Internet and barely 1.2 percent have access to a personal computer. There are 18 computers per 1,000 Arabs, compared to the global average of 78.3.

- During the entire 20th century, fewer than 10,000 books were translated into Arabic -- equivalent to the number translated into Spanish in a single year. Religious books account for 17 per cent of new publications in Arab countries, compared to a world average of 5 per cent.

- Censorship stifles ideas, information and innovation. Numerous censors review book manuscripts, each with the power to edit text or demand revisions.

 

[Eloy]

How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.

The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.

EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.
​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f

Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.

This is massive.

Now read what happened:

From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.

On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.

He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.​

This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.

The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.

The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.

So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.

Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.

And do you know when and WHY this "brutal" blockade and occupation began?

1948.

2000.

1994.

Indeed there have been many Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity but the international community did nothing due to fear of the Americans. Now everyone is putting on the record that a two-state solution along 1967 borders will be the only acceptable plan to satisfy world opinion.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.

The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?

Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.

Splitting hairs.... They have been there since the time of Moses.

Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.

I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.

Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.

How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.

The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.

EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.
​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f

Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.

This is massive.

Now read what happened:

From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.

On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.

He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.​

This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.

The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.

The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.

So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.

Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.

Then they should have accepted the multiple peace deals, because that would have ended the blockade.

Stop giving excuses. That's childish. No more excuses, thanks.

Remember when the blockade was to be lifted when schilit (SP?) was released.

That lie came and went.

You're upset that acts of Islamic terrorism weren't rewarded.

Pal'istanian Mentality™

Not relevant. It was just one of Israel's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of lies.

 

[Hollie]

The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?

Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.

Splitting hairs.... They have been there since the time of Moses.

How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.

The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.

EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.
​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f

Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.

This is massive.

Now read what happened:

From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.

On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.

He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.​

This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.

The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.

The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.

So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.

Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.

Then they should have accepted the multiple peace deals, because that would have ended the blockade.

Stop giving excuses. That's childish. No more excuses, thanks.

Remember when the blockade was to be lifted when schilit (SP?) was released.

That lie came and went.

You're upset that acts of Islamic terrorism weren't rewarded.

Pal'istanian Mentality™

Not relevant. It was just of Israel's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of lies.

It certainly is relevant. Rewarding acts of Islamic terrorism only emboldens Islamic terrorists.

Your heroes in hezbollocks learned the hard way in 2006 that islamo-kidnapping has consequences.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.

Splitting hairs.... They have been there since the time of Moses.

Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.

Then they should have accepted the multiple peace deals, because that would have ended the blockade.

Stop giving excuses. That's childish. No more excuses, thanks.

Remember when the blockade was to be lifted when schilit (SP?) was released.

That lie came and went.

You're upset that acts of Islamic terrorism weren't rewarded.

Pal'istanian Mentality™

Not relevant. It was just of Israel's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of lies.

It certainly is relevant. Rewarding acts of Islamic terrorism only emboldens Islamic terrorists.

Your heroes in hezbollocks learned the hard way in 2006 that islamo-kidnapping has consequences.

Indeed, Israel uses it as an excuse to bomb the crap out of civilians.

 

[Hollie]

Splitting hairs.... They have been there since the time of Moses.
Then they should have accepted the multiple peace deals, because that would have ended the blockade.

Stop giving excuses. That's childish. No more excuses, thanks.

Remember when the blockade was to be lifted when schilit (SP?) was released.

That lie came and went.

You're upset that acts of Islamic terrorism weren't rewarded.

Pal'istanian Mentality™

Not relevant. It was just of Israel's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of lies.

It certainly is relevant. Rewarding acts of Islamic terrorism only emboldens Islamic terrorists.

Your heroes in hezbollocks learned the hard way in 2006 that islamo-kidnapping has consequences.

Indeed, Israel uses it as an excuse to bomb the crap out of civilians.

Indeed, your Islamic terrorist heroes proved their cowardice by waging war from civilian areas.

But then, Arab-Moslem victims of Arab-Moslem terrorism are a valuable propaganda tool.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Remember when the blockade was to be lifted when schilit (SP?) was released.

That lie came and went.

You're upset that acts of Islamic terrorism weren't rewarded.

Pal'istanian Mentality™

Not relevant. It was just of Israel's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of lies.

It certainly is relevant. Rewarding acts of Islamic terrorism only emboldens Islamic terrorists.

Your heroes in hezbollocks learned the hard way in 2006 that islamo-kidnapping has consequences.

Indeed, Israel uses it as an excuse to bomb the crap out of civilians.

Indeed, your Islamic terrorist heroes proved their cowardice by waging war from civilian areas.

But then, Arab-Moslem victims of Arab-Moslem terrorism are a valuable propaganda tool.

Israel even attacks Palestinian civilians in the West Bank where there are no rockets.

So that is just one of Israel's stupid excuses.

 

[Hollie]

You're upset that acts of Islamic terrorism weren't rewarded.

Pal'istanian Mentality™

Not relevant. It was just of Israel's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of lies.

It certainly is relevant. Rewarding acts of Islamic terrorism only emboldens Islamic terrorists.

Your heroes in hezbollocks learned the hard way in 2006 that islamo-kidnapping has consequences.

Indeed, Israel uses it as an excuse to bomb the crap out of civilians.

Indeed, your Islamic terrorist heroes proved their cowardice by waging war from civilian areas.

But then, Arab-Moslem victims of Arab-Moslem terrorism are a valuable propaganda tool.

Israel even attacks Palestinian civilians in the West Bank where there are no rockets.

So that is just one of Israel's stupid excuses.

Islamic terrorism carries consequences.

How lucky for you that dead Islamic terrorists are such a convenient propaganda tool.

 

[Andylusion]

You're upset that acts of Islamic terrorism weren't rewarded.

Pal'istanian Mentality™

Not relevant. It was just of Israel's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of lies.

It certainly is relevant. Rewarding acts of Islamic terrorism only emboldens Islamic terrorists.

Your heroes in hezbollocks learned the hard way in 2006 that islamo-kidnapping has consequences.

Indeed, Israel uses it as an excuse to bomb the crap out of civilians.

Indeed, your Islamic terrorist heroes proved their cowardice by waging war from civilian areas.

But then, Arab-Moslem victims of Arab-Moslem terrorism are a valuable propaganda tool.

Israel even attacks Palestinian civilians in the West Bank where there are no rockets.

So that is just one of Israel's stupid excuses.

Jewish man attacked by west bank terrorists, killing him, leaving a wounded widow, and two children.

Yeah, they don't have rockets, but that doesn't stop them from being dogs that need shot and put down.

Stop your excuses. You attack the Israelis, and then cry that they shoot back. Any country where you shot their citizens, would result in them stomping you.

Quite frankly, the Israeli response is quite tame compared to what the US would do to you, if you were next to Texas, and shooting at them.

And quite frankly, the response from Texas would be tame compared to what the Russians would do to you, if you lived next to them, and were shooting Russians.

Honestly, Israel has had a more restrained and reasonable response to your murderous terrorists, than anyone else would have.

Remember what the Russians did in Afghanistan? Some terrorist with his kids and wife, just shot at them, they'd level half the town, killing everyone with the terrorist.

Remember how Israel just cleared those concrete tunnels and blew them up? Russia would punch a bunch of holes in drums of diesel fuel, roll them down into the tunnels and caves of Afghanistan, and set all of them on fire.... women children, and the terrorists. Burn them all alive. And not give a second thought to it.

These Arabs should be thanking G-d every day. Not for victory over Israel, but that Israel is the most patient, and lenient country they could be fighting. If it was any other group than the Jews, there would be large greasy spots out in the desert, and nothing left of Gaza or the West Bank. Anyone else, and it would be Chernobyl exclusion zone in the middle east.

 

[Eloy]

Not relevant. It was just of Israel's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of lies.

It certainly is relevant. Rewarding acts of Islamic terrorism only emboldens Islamic terrorists.

Your heroes in hezbollocks learned the hard way in 2006 that islamo-kidnapping has consequences.

Indeed, Israel uses it as an excuse to bomb the crap out of civilians.

Indeed, your Islamic terrorist heroes proved their cowardice by waging war from civilian areas.

But then, Arab-Moslem victims of Arab-Moslem terrorism are a valuable propaganda tool.

Israel even attacks Palestinian civilians in the West Bank where there are no rockets.

So that is just one of Israel's stupid excuses.

View attachment 107252

Jewish man attacked by west bank terrorists, killing him, leaving a wounded widow, and two children.

Yeah, they don't have rockets, but that doesn't stop them from being dogs that need shot and put down.

Stop your excuses. You attack the Israelis, and then cry that they shoot back. Any country where you shot their citizens, would result in them stomping you.

Quite frankly, the Israeli response is quite tame compared to what the US would do to you, if you were next to Texas, and shooting at them.

And quite frankly, the response from Texas would be tame compared to what the Russians would do to you, if you lived next to them, and were shooting Russians.

Honestly, Israel has had a more restrained and reasonable response to your murderous terrorists, than anyone else would have.

Remember what the Russians did in Afghanistan? Some terrorist with his kids and wife, just shot at them, they'd level half the town, killing everyone with the terrorist.

Remember how Israel just cleared those concrete tunnels and blew them up? Russia would punch a bunch of holes in drums of diesel fuel, roll them down into the tunnels and caves of Afghanistan, and set all of them on fire.... women children, and the terrorists. Burn them all alive. And not give a second thought to it.

These Arabs should be thanking G-d every day. Not for victory over Israel, but that Israel is the most patient, and lenient country they could be fighting. If it was any other group than the Jews, there would be large greasy spots out in the desert, and nothing left of Gaza or the West Bank. Anyone else, and it would be Chernobyl exclusion zone in the middle east.

A Jewish man was attacked and killed?
How many Palestinians, including babies asleep in their cradles, have been attacked and killed by settlers?
I rather think your outrage is reserved for the injury to Jews.
The illegal settlements need to be closed and their Jewish colonists repatriated from Palestine to Israel.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes this is interesting. But provides no real guidance; contributes nothing towards a solution.

So, what was the purpose? What was the intent and outcome?

Now that the two state solution is dead and one state looms on the horizon people are trying to revive the two state solution to save Israel from itself.

(ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION)

In The Status Quo There Is --- A Freedom Tax:

• Let's just maintain the existing state of affairs.

§ Israel really does not want to absorb the West Bank or Gaza Strip. That would be tantamount to giving citizenship to a segment of the population that has no real potential for working in the best interest of Israel; and would introduce a viral and parasitic condition into one of the inventive, creative, energetic and constructive nations in the modern world today. Israel makes many times more of a positive contribution to humanity (in is existence since 1948) than the entire Arab Middle East Region since the time of Nobel Endowment in 1895.
​

• Let Israel slowly back away gradually disengage from any substantive interaction with the Palestinians in any way (political, border crossing, utilities, economic and commercial, etc --- no work permits for employment).
• Renenforce the security barrier and complete the construction.
•• Divert funding into three directions.

§ Construction Project: Relocation Properties ---

ø Compensation their lost residents, f
ø Reconstruction for the loss of their homes, farms and businesses
​

§ Construction Project: Desalinization Plans ---

ø A giant gas driven (Source: Dedicated Spur Line from the Dalit Field Development) Desalinization Plant Complex in the vicinity of Israeli Central District (Netanya), with a protected aqueduct straight into Nabulus (West Bank). From there, branching off in three directions (North, East, South).
ø A giant gas driven (Source: Dedicated Spur Line from the Tamar Field Development) Desalinization Plant Complex with aqueduct branch; one NE to Jerusalem. one SE to Berrsheba.
ø A giant gas driven (Source: Underground Mini-nuclear Reactor with steam turbine generators) Desalinization Plant Complex in Eilat (Gulf of Aqaba) to improve the land and irrigation of the desert to the north and NW.
​

§ Once utilities are established and the ground becomes agriculturally sound, begin to move West Bank Settlers to newly improved lands on a line between Dimona to Eilat (Gulf of Aqaba).
​

• Israel will have to continue to tolerate the Arab Palestinian Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence. It will even have to be prepared to conduct military operations such to deplete and exhaust hostile Arab Palestinian arms and supplies.
​

While it is possible for the Arab Palestinians to suddenly jump up and turn, politically, 180º in the opposite direction; the probability is ever remote. Instead, the Freedom Tax is the cost, vigilance, and preparedness in the inevitable violence so promised by the Arab Palestinians themselves. And! It will be in the slings and arrows of the international community as Israel decisively answers the Arab Palestinian call for a thrashing (yet again).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

As the Jews continue to encroach and surround the areas that the native Palestinians inhabit, the Palestinians, regrettably, will have to emulate the more aggressive freedom fighting tactics of the ANC in South Africa. Unfortunately, the Jews seem to be more uncompromising than the Boers.

But, they also need the rise of charismatic leader like Mandela (Abbas won't do), to help mobilize the international community against Israeli apartheid. This induces sanctions.

The international sanctions, even though the U.S. and Britain resisted initially, were an important element that brought the ruling whites to the table. BDS is a start, but individual economic sanctions imposed by individual countries and blocs e.g. the EU, and sporting sanctions were also important. FIFA's upcoming sanctioning of Israeli football is a start, but only affects the settlements. As the International Olympic Committee, UEFA and other sporting federations follow FIFA's lead Israel, like Apartheid South Africa will become more isolated and that tends to bring people around in terms of compromise.

It will take time, but time is on the side of the Palestinians. Hopefully, the result will be similar to the relatively peaceful transition to a multi-ethnic and democratic state, as occurred in South Africa.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not relevant. It was just of Israel's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of lies.

It certainly is relevant. Rewarding acts of Islamic terrorism only emboldens Islamic terrorists.

Your heroes in hezbollocks learned the hard way in 2006 that islamo-kidnapping has consequences.

Indeed, Israel uses it as an excuse to bomb the crap out of civilians.

Indeed, your Islamic terrorist heroes proved their cowardice by waging war from civilian areas.

But then, Arab-Moslem victims of Arab-Moslem terrorism are a valuable propaganda tool.

Israel even attacks Palestinian civilians in the West Bank where there are no rockets.

So that is just one of Israel's stupid excuses.

View attachment 107252

Jewish man attacked by west bank terrorists, killing him, leaving a wounded widow, and two children.

Yeah, they don't have rockets, but that doesn't stop them from being dogs that need shot and put down.

Stop your excuses. You attack the Israelis, and then cry that they shoot back. Any country where you shot their citizens, would result in them stomping you.

Quite frankly, the Israeli response is quite tame compared to what the US would do to you, if you were next to Texas, and shooting at them.

And quite frankly, the response from Texas would be tame compared to what the Russians would do to you, if you lived next to them, and were shooting Russians.

Honestly, Israel has had a more restrained and reasonable response to your murderous terrorists, than anyone else would have.

Remember what the Russians did in Afghanistan? Some terrorist with his kids and wife, just shot at them, they'd level half the town, killing everyone with the terrorist.

Remember how Israel just cleared those concrete tunnels and blew them up? Russia would punch a bunch of holes in drums of diesel fuel, roll them down into the tunnels and caves of Afghanistan, and set all of them on fire.... women children, and the terrorists. Burn them all alive. And not give a second thought to it.

These Arabs should be thanking G-d every day. Not for victory over Israel, but that Israel is the most patient, and lenient country they could be fighting. If it was any other group than the Jews, there would be large greasy spots out in the desert, and nothing left of Gaza or the West Bank. Anyone else, and it would be Chernobyl exclusion zone in the middle east.

What were those people doing in Palestine?

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Again, exactly what did Israel do to get the tag "Apartheid."

"The crime of apartheid" [ICC-RS Article 7 (2d)] means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

Nothing contained in the present Charter [Chapter 1 Article 2(7)] shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
​

As the Jews continue to encroach and surround the areas that the native Palestinians inhabit, the Palestinians, regrettably, will have to emulate the more aggressive freedom fighting tactics of the ANC in South Africa. Unfortunately, the Jews seem to be more uncompromising than the Boers.

But, they also need the rise of charismatic leader like Mandela (Abbas won't do), to help mobilize the international community against Israeli apartheid. This induces sanctions.

The international sanctions, even though the U.S. and Britain resisted initially, were an important element that brought the ruling whites to the table. BDS is a start, but individual economic sanctions imposed by individual countries and blocs e.g. the EU, and sporting sanctions were also important. FIFA's upcoming sanctioning of Israeli football is a start, but only affects the settlements. As the International Olympic Committee, UEFA and other sporting federations follow FIFA's lead Israel, like Apartheid South Africa will become more isolated and that tends to bring people around in terms of compromise.

It will take time, but time is on the side of the Palestinians. Hopefully, the result will be similar to the relatively peaceful transition to a multi-ethnic and democratic state, as occurred in South Africa.

(FACTS)

The CIA World Factbook - Israel

Ethnic groups:

• Jewish 74.8% (of which Israel-born 75.6%)

§ Europe/America/Oceania-born 16.6%,
§ Africa-born 4.9%,
§ Asia-born 2.9%,
​

• non-Jewish 25.2% (mostly Arab) (2015 est.)
​

Religions:

• Jewish 74.8%,

Jews in Israel are also divided according their level of religious observance:

§ Ultra-Orthodox (12%),
§ Religious (10%),
§ Traditional (35%),
§ Secular (43%).
​

• Muslim 17.6%, (Approximatel 1.2M numbers vary depending on the source)
• Christian 2%,
• Druze 1.6%,
(OR --- ≈ 122K ican be thought of as 8.2% of the Arab population)
(Most speak Arabic and identify as Arabs // most believe in reincarnation // closed communities and accept no converts)
(There is a history of Arab nationalists persecuting the Druze)
• Other 4% (2015 est.)
​

(COMMENT)

The State of Israel has a population of some 8.27M inhabitants. And normally, when we talk about "Apartheid," we talk about the minority being oppressed by the Majority in the domestic venue. We are not talking about the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Druze: Approximately 134,000 Druze currently live in Israel, in 17 settlements on Mount Carmel, in the Galilee and on the Golan Heights. This is not by government decree but is of their own choosing.

Circassians: Members immigrated and established the Village of Rikhaniya and Kafr Kama.

Samaritans: There are less than a 100 Samaritans left in Israel. They are evenly split between Nablus (Shkhem) and Holon (Kholon).

Since the Declaration of Indepence from the British Mandate and UN Trusteeship, over some 2.7M Jews have immigrated to Israel from over a 100 different countries; including ≈ 60,000 immigrants from Ethiopia.

I'm not quite sure that the "Apartheid" of South Africa is anything like Israel. No government is perfect. Israel is doing more than most in this regard.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

If you are supporting the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank (former Jordanian Sovereign Territory) and the Gaza Strip (former Occupied Egyptian Territory), WHAT connection does that have to do with the accusation of "Apartheid"????

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Again, exactly what did Israel do to get the tag "Apartheid."

"The crime of apartheid" [ICC-RS Article 7 (2d)] means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

You answered your own question.

 

[Eloy]

montelatici, et al,

Again, exactly what did Israel do to get the tag "Apartheid."

"The crime of apartheid" [ICC-RS Article 7 (2d)] means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

Nothing contained in the present Charter [Chapter 1 Article 2(7)] shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
​

As the Jews continue to encroach and surround the areas that the native Palestinians inhabit, the Palestinians, regrettably, will have to emulate the more aggressive freedom fighting tactics of the ANC in South Africa. Unfortunately, the Jews seem to be more uncompromising than the Boers.

But, they also need the rise of charismatic leader like Mandela (Abbas won't do), to help mobilize the international community against Israeli apartheid. This induces sanctions.

The international sanctions, even though the U.S. and Britain resisted initially, were an important element that brought the ruling whites to the table. BDS is a start, but individual economic sanctions imposed by individual countries and blocs e.g. the EU, and sporting sanctions were also important. FIFA's upcoming sanctioning of Israeli football is a start, but only affects the settlements. As the International Olympic Committee, UEFA and other sporting federations follow FIFA's lead Israel, like Apartheid South Africa will become more isolated and that tends to bring people around in terms of compromise.

It will take time, but time is on the side of the Palestinians. Hopefully, the result will be similar to the relatively peaceful transition to a multi-ethnic and democratic state, as occurred in South Africa.

(FACTS)

The CIA World Factbook - Israel

Ethnic groups:

• Jewish 74.8% (of which Israel-born 75.6%)

§ Europe/America/Oceania-born 16.6%,
§ Africa-born 4.9%,
§ Asia-born 2.9%,
​

• non-Jewish 25.2% (mostly Arab) (2015 est.)​

Religions:

• Jewish 74.8%,

Jews in Israel are also divided according their level of religious observance:

§ Ultra-Orthodox (12%),
§ Religious (10%),
§ Traditional (35%),
§ Secular (43%).
​

• Muslim 17.6%, (Approximatel 1.2M numbers vary depending on the source)
• Christian 2%,
• Druze 1.6%,
(OR --- ≈ 122K ican be thought of as 8.2% of the Arab population)
(Most speak Arabic and identify as Arabs // most believe in reincarnation // closed communities and accept no converts)
(There is a history of Arab nationalists persecuting the Druze)
• Other 4% (2015 est.)​

(COMMENT)

The State of Israel has a population of some 8.27M inhabitants. And normally, when we talk about "Apartheid," we talk about the minority being oppressed by the Majority in the domestic venue. We are not talking about the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Druze: Approximately 134,000 Druze currently live in Israel, in 17 settlements on Mount Carmel, in the Galilee and on the Golan Heights. This is not by government decree but is of their own choosing.

Circassians: Members immigrated and established the Village of Rikhaniya and Kafr Kama.

Samaritans: There are less than a 100 Samaritans left in Israel. They are evenly split between Nablus (Shkhem) and Holon (Kholon).

Since the Declaration of Indepence from the British Mandate and UN Trusteeship, over some 2.7M Jews have immigrated to Israel from over a 100 different countries; including ≈ 60,000 immigrants from Ethiopia.

I'm not quite sure that the "Apartheid" of South Africa is anything like Israel. No government is perfect. Israel is doing more than most in this regard.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

If you are supporting the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank (former Jordanian Sovereign Territory) and the Gaza Strip (former Occupied Egyptian Territory), WHAT connection does that have to do with the accusation of "Apartheid"????

Most Respectfully,
R

Arab (Palestinian) citizens in Israel are 2nd class but the vision Israel has in mind for the Occupied Territories such as continued blockade of Gaza and Reservations for Palestinians in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem is the very definition of apartheid.