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How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.
A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
From 1:46...
There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.
How should we settle this dillema?
No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.
The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.
Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.
Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.
On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?
You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.
The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?
I think "dust" is the key word here.et al,
OK, what does everyone have to say now that the dust has settled on the Paris Summit?
V/R
R
(COMMENT)et al,
OK, what does everyone have to say now that the dust has settled on the Paris Summit?
V/R
R
Well, since the main parties to the conflict weren't even there, not much was accomplished.
Now that the two state solution is dead and one state looms on the horizon people are trying to revive the two state solution to save Israel from itself.So, what was the purpose? What was the intent and outcome?
Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".And how they hold no water in light of real documents.On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?
A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
From 1:46...
There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.
How should we settle this dillema?
No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.
The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.
Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.
Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.
On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?
You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.
The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?
Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.
It's only value was to set the record straight once and for all that a two-state is what the world prefers and its border should be the 967 border.et al,
OK, what does everyone have to say now that the dust has settled on the Paris Summit?
V/R
R
Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.One way to solve the Jewish problem with Palestinians is not to heed the ignorant codswallop of a Palestinian Mufti but between men and women of reason and compassion to recognize the rights of the Palestinian people now under Israeli blockade and occupation to have their own state and live in peace as well as their claims on the land of their birth and that of their fathers.A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.
How should we settle this dillema?
Thank You for pointing out that it's a Jewish problem with Palestinians, not a political one. This is more accurate regarding the history of Palestine.
One cannot disregard the words of the Palestinian Mufti and his son heading the same position today and dictating much of the Palestinian agenda.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.One way to solve the Jewish problem with Palestinians is not to heed the ignorant codswallop of a Palestinian Mufti but between men and women of reason and compassion to recognize the rights of the Palestinian people now under Israeli blockade and occupation to have their own state and live in peace as well as their claims on the land of their birth and that of their fathers.
Thank You for pointing out that it's a Jewish problem with Palestinians, not a political one. This is more accurate regarding the history of Palestine.
One cannot disregard the words of the Palestinian Mufti and his son heading the same position today and dictating much of the Palestinian agenda.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
And do you know when and WHY this "brutal" blockade and occupation began?Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.Thank You for pointing out that it's a Jewish problem with Palestinians, not a political one. This is more accurate regarding the history of Palestine.
One cannot disregard the words of the Palestinian Mufti and his son heading the same position today and dictating much of the Palestinian agenda.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.One way to solve the Jewish problem with Palestinians is not to heed the ignorant codswallop of a Palestinian Mufti but between men and women of reason and compassion to recognize the rights of the Palestinian people now under Israeli blockade and occupation to have their own state and live in peace as well as their claims on the land of their birth and that of their fathers.
Thank You for pointing out that it's a Jewish problem with Palestinians, not a political one. This is more accurate regarding the history of Palestine.
One cannot disregard the words of the Palestinian Mufti and his son heading the same position today and dictating much of the Palestinian agenda.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
What do you think would happen if the blockade was lifted, there were no fences and the border was open?Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.Thank You for pointing out that it's a Jewish problem with Palestinians, not a political one. This is more accurate regarding the history of Palestine.
One cannot disregard the words of the Palestinian Mufti and his son heading the same position today and dictating much of the Palestinian agenda.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.Thank You for pointing out that it's a Jewish problem with Palestinians, not a political one. This is more accurate regarding the history of Palestine.
One cannot disregard the words of the Palestinian Mufti and his son heading the same position today and dictating much of the Palestinian agenda.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
What do you think would happen if the blockade was lifted, there were no fences and the border was open?Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
1948.And do you know when and WHY this "brutal" blockade and occupation began?Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
1948.And do you know when and WHY this "brutal" blockade and occupation began?Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
From 1:46...
There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.
How should we settle this dillema?
No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.
The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.
Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.
Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.
On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?
You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.
The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?
Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.
Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.Thank You for pointing out that it's a Jewish problem with Palestinians, not a political one. This is more accurate regarding the history of Palestine.
One cannot disregard the words of the Palestinian Mufti and his son heading the same position today and dictating much of the Palestinian agenda.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
2000.1948.And do you know when and WHY this "brutal" blockade and occupation began?Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
Israelis and Palestinians both need to look forward now, not back.The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.
The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.
Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.
Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.
On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?
You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.
Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.
Splitting hairs.... They have been there since the time of Moses.
Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
Then they should have accepted the multiple peace deals, because that would have ended the blockade.
Stop giving excuses. That's childish. No more excuses, thanks.
Remember when the blockade was to be lifted when schilit (SP?) was released.The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.
The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.
Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.
Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.
On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?
You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.
Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.
Splitting hairs.... They have been there since the time of Moses.
Whatever some men of good will in Israel have tried to do, the brutal blockade and occupation of the Palestinian Territories has undone.Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.
Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?
Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.
I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.
Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.
How could they have possibly been more accommodating? The government of Israel, has tried many times to not only be accommodating, but agree to Palestine statehood, and given them land and territory.
The last attempt was 2006 to 2008.
EHUD Olmert is a giant of contemporary Middle East politics. As Israel's prime minister he made war - twice - in Lebanon in 2006, and in the Gaza Strip earlier this year. He's also tried to make peace, offering the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, the most extensive concessions any Israeli leader has ever brought to the table in the search for a settlement.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f266b2fec6cab7f6b49fc3d8c1bee82f
Ehud Olmert attempted to give massive concessions in order to find a peace deal, that would create a Palestinian state, that would divide Jerusalem, give nearly all the West Bank, and more than all of Gaza, and even ..... get this... he promised to guarantee 'right-of-return' for Arabs, granting them Israeli citizenship, AND reclaiming their former property.
This is massive.
Now read what happened:
From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan.
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again.
This is the exact same thing that happened at the 2000 Camp David accords. Israel laid out statehood, with territory, and Yasser Arafat, turned it down.
The Arabs do not want a peace deal. Not a final peace deal. They want to scream about peace, throw stones about peace, go to the UN about peace, demand the world's attention about peace.... but they do not want peace.
The moment that they sign a deal, and create a Palestinian State, they know that any attack on Israel will turn world opinion away from them, and all their help will dry up.
So, they'll scream, they'll preach, they will cry on TV, and weep for the cameras, and they'll do whatever they can to drum up support for them with a back drop of "oh we just want our own state, and peace!".... in reality they'll never sign a peace deal ever. They will drag this out until the end of time, and string along as many fools as they can, to support their genocidal cause to kill the Jews.
Then they should have accepted the multiple peace deals, because that would have ended the blockade.
Stop giving excuses. That's childish. No more excuses, thanks.
