Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[georgephillip]

How do they calculate it under socialism?

"The labor theory of value provides both a moral and a conceptual foundation for an equitable and efficient socialism.

"Given modern information technology, a system of planning can work.

"Markets in consumer goods are required, but not markets for the means of production.

"We advocate a system of payment in labor-tokens, and argue for its superiority over the wages system in terms of both equity and economic efficiency."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257982894_Value_markets_and_socialism

 

[bripat9643]

"The labor theory of value provides both a moral and a conceptual foundation for an equitable and efficient socialism.

"Given modern information technology, a system of planning can work.

"Markets in consumer goods are required, but not markets for the means of production.

"We advocate a system of payment in labor-tokens, and argue for its superiority over the wages system in terms of both equity and economic efficiency."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257982894_Value_markets_and_socialism

You didn't explain how they calculate it. You merely spewed your dogma.

Your claims are all false.

 

[georgephillip]

still waiting on that successful socialist country. where is it?

Still waiting for that definition of "successful".

 

[bripat9643]

Still waiting for that definition of "successful".

Provides a high standard of living in terms of material wealth.

 

[georgephillip]

So? Do you really believe government can/should fix the birth lottery?

The white-supremacist, patriarchal government that created the legal institutions and norms that produced the "winners" in the birth lottery have a responsibility to correct their previous errors. Throwing acid in a woman's face is an act of terror only conservatives would suggest.

 

[GHook20]

https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/fil...-_is_capitalism_compatible_with_democracy.pdf

"Capitalism and democracy follow different logics: unequally distributed property rights on the one hand, equal civic and political rights on the other; profit oriented trade within capitalism in contrast to the search for the common good within democracy; debate, compromise and majority decision-making within democratic politics versus hierarchical decision-making by managers and capital owners.

"Capitalism is not democratic, democracy not capitalist.

"During the first postwar decades, tensions between the two were moderated through the socio-political embedding of capitalism by an interventionist tax and welfare state.

"Yet, the financialization of capitalism since the 1980s has broken the precarious capitalist-democratic compromise."

Reagan's tax cuts facilitated low interest rates and financial bubbles to promote US financial expansion by making real estate speculation and junk-bond corporate takeovers effectively exempt from income taxation.

This set in motion a chain-reaction of asset price inflation that is still polarizing this economy today.

The primary mode of accumulation has become financial, enabling investment bankers to replace government planners.

Please tell us again what you did for a living until retirement?

I will quote you: “various minimum wage jobs…”

 

[georgephillip]

True, and I couldn't be happier about it. The people who produced the wealth have demonstrated competence at managing producing enterprise

The people who produce the wealth in a capitalist system have no say about what to produce, where to produce it, or how to distribute any surplus. A small minority of society who "own" the means of production make those crucial decisions.

 

[georgephillip]

What you call "Finance capitalism," which is really crony capitalism. It's not capitalism at all.

Wrong again.
Don't you ever tire of reproving your ignorance?

"Characteristics of today’s rentier capitalism

"The drive for capital gains in real estate and the stock market.

"Whereas the old industrial capitalism sought profits, the new finance capitalism seeks capital gains mainly in the form of higher land prices and prices for other rent-yielding assets.

"Partly this is an attempt to sidestep income taxation"

Financial Capitalism v. Industrial Capitalism | Michael Hudson

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wrong again.
Don't you ever tire of reproving your ignorance?

"Characteristics of today’s rentier capitalism

"The drive for capital gains in real estate and the stock market.

"Whereas the old industrial capitalism sought profits, the new finance capitalism seeks capital gains mainly in the form of higher land prices and prices for other rent-yielding assets.

"Partly this is an attempt to sidestep income taxation"

Financial Capitalism v. Industrial Capitalism | Michael Hudson

Carroll Quigley? Sounds like a loon.
Another marxist economist?

 

[dblack]

The people who produce the wealth in a capitalist system have no say about what to produce, where to produce it, or how to distribute any surplus.

Bullshit. They have total say. Everyone in a free market has the right to say "no", to refuse to go along with anything they don't agree with.

 

[dblack]

A small minority of society who "own" the means of production make those crucial decisions.

Yes. That's what ownership means. It's the right, and the responsibility, to allocate resources. If they do it well, they are assigned more wealth to control, if they do it badly, if they squander resources instead of using them productively, they'll lose their wealth and someone else will have a turn. Command economies (socialism) have no such moderating incentive structure.

 

[jc456]

Homeless Population by State 2021

Homeless is poor? Haha haha

 

[jc456]

So you don’t want Americans great! Got it! Traitor

 

[georgephillip]

Capitalism has only been around for 250-300 years, at most.

Closer to five hundred and it was born of piracy.

In 1603 three ships owned by the Dutch East India Company captured a Portuguese merchant ship off the coast of Singapore.

Among its treasures was 70 tons of Chinese gold which sold at auction for the equivalent of 130 million dollars. The richness of the prize sparked all sorts of private litigation.

The Dutch raiders were not part of a royal navy, nor were they privateers carrying a "letter of marque"

They were employees of the world's first major corporation, and their windfall profits showed the strength of the new capitalist approach to exploration and empire.

Jacob van Heemskerck - Wikipedia

 

[bripat9643]

Closer to five hundred and it was born of piracy.

How do you figure 500? Do you believe capitalism existed in the time of Columbus? And it was not born of piracy. Why do you keep making these assinigned and obviously wrong statements?

In 1603 three ships owned by the Dutch East India Company captured a Portuguese merchant ship off the coast of Singapore.

Among its treasures was 70 tons of Chinese gold which sold at auction for the equivalent of 130 million dollars. The richness of the prize sparked all sorts of private litigation.

The Dutch raiders were not part of a royal navy, nor were they privateers carrying a "letter of marque"

They were employees of the world's first major corporation, and their windfall profits showed the strength of the new capitalist approach to exploration and empire.

Jacob van Heemskerck - Wikipedia

The Dutch East India Company was not a corporation in the modern sense. For one thing, the Dutch government granted it a monopoly on all trade in a certain geographic area. For another, it had its own laws and even its own army and navy. That ain't capitalism, moron. The economic model is much closer to Feudalism than anything else.

 

[georgephillip]

Capitalism has killed almost no one. When you consider all the people capitalism has saved, the ledger decidedly favors capitalism . Famine used to be regular occurrence in the world. Millions of people died. Capitalism put an end to it. Capitalism also put an end to many infections diseases that killed millions.

Capitalism has killed millions over the past five hundred years, and it continues killing, maiming, and displacing millions more today for the greater glory of private profit.

"The Middle Passage was notorious for its brutality and for the overcrowded, unsanitary conditions on the ships.

"The trip took a few weeks to several months.

"The captives were packed tightly into tiers below decks and were typically chained together.

"The almost continuous dangers faced by the captives included epidemic diseases, attack by pirates, and physical, sexual, and psychological abuse at the hands of their captors.

"Historians estimate that between 15 and 25 percent of the enslaved Africans bound for the Americas died aboard slave ships.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Capitalism has killed millions over the past five hundred years, and it continues killing, maiming, and displacing millions more today for the greater glory of private profit.

"The Middle Passage was notorious for its brutality and for the overcrowded, unsanitary conditions on the ships.

"The trip took a few weeks to several months.

"The captives were packed tightly into tiers below decks and were typically chained together.

"The almost continuous dangers faced by the captives included epidemic diseases, attack by pirates, and physical, sexual, and psychological abuse at the hands of their captors.

"Historians estimate that between 15 and 25 percent of the enslaved Africans bound for the Americas died aboard slave ships.

The first stage of the triangular trade started in Europe. A typical trade route began in Liverpool, England. A ship would leave Liverpool with a cargo of manufactured goods such as textiles, metals, firearms, linen, and alcoholic beverages. The ship would sail to the west coast of Africa. People from the interior of Africa were often captured and taken to the coast bordering the Gulf of Guinea. This area was called the Slave Coast. There the goods from the European ship would be traded for Africans who were enslaved.

West Africans were selling slaves to Europeans? That's awful!

 

[bripat9643]

How do you figure 500? Do you believe capitalism existed in the time of Columbus? And it was not born of piracy. Why do you keep making these assigning and obviously wrong statements?



The Dutch East India Company was not a corporation in the modern sense. For one thing, the Dutch government granted it a monopoly on all trade in a certain geographic area. For another, it had its own laws and even its own army and navy. The economic model is much closer to Feudalism than anything else. That ain't capitalism, moron.

Capitalism has killed millions over the past five hundred years, and it continues killing, maiming, and displacing millions more today for the greater glory of private profit.

"The Middle Passage was notorious for its brutality and for the overcrowded, unsanitary conditions on the ships.

"The trip took a few weeks to several months.

"The captives were packed tightly into tiers below decks and were typically chained together.

"The almost continuous dangers faced by the captives included epidemic diseases, attack by pirates, and physical, sexual, and psychological abuse at the hands of their captors.

"Historians estimate that between 15 and 25 percent of the enslaved Africans bound for the Americas died aboard slave ships.

That wasn't capitalism, moron. Economists generally describe the economic system in place in the 17th and 18th century as mercantilism. it was tightly controlled by the monarch with the intention of producing a positive balance of trade and revenues for the Crown.

 

[georgephillip]

again, that quack thinks socialism worked somewhere. You and I can't solve insanity such as his.

You're too MAGA to comprehend what you read.

Bolivia’s Remarkable Socialist Success Story

 

[jc456]

You're too MAGA to comprehend what you read.

Bolivia’s Remarkable Socialist Success Story

Why do the people want to come here?