Charles Koch: Clinton could be better president than a GOP pick

[Brain357]

AND NOTHING like These events have occurred during Obama's bumbling!
Remember Recession... Dot.com bust....9/11.... worst hurricanes in history...and you ignorantly call Bush a DISASTER?

Go start a new thread if you want to claim bush was great, should get some good laughs. Bush was a disaster, even repubs admit it now. Jeb was laughed out of the running. The leading repub candidate is a bush basher. Stop embarrassing yourself.

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

 

[Brain357]

Why don't those brothers just dry up, what do they do drink blood of something?

This proves Trump is killing the GOP....

That's OK.

The GOP needs to be gutted and rebuilt, anyway.

America needs a Party of the Common Man.

The Democrats stopped being that party decades ago.

Time for the Grand Old Party to return to its Populist roots.

Something that it lost, the better part of a century ago, and that America is only just now figuring-out.

This is NOT about a dying Conservatism...

This is about preserving a few salient points from that dying mindset, and incorporating those into a Populist agenda, as the Grand Old Party reclaims its name.

The Gordian Knot within the Republican Party needs to be hacked apart, and an Insider cannot be the one to do it.

Time to press the Reset Button on the GOP, and sit back and watch the fun, as LibTards start shitting their pants and losing elections on a very large scale.

We do need a party of the common man. One that uses some common sense rather than being owned by money.

 

[Andylusion]

AND NOTHING like These events have occurred during Obama's bumbling!
Remember Recession... Dot.com bust....9/11.... worst hurricanes in history...and you ignorantly call Bush a DISASTER?

Go start a new thread if you want to claim bush was great, should get some good laughs. Bush was a disaster, even repubs admit it now. Jeb was laughed out of the running. The leading repub candidate is a bush basher. Stop embarrassing yourself.

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

 

[Clementine]

.

Uh-oh, now what?


Clinton could be better president than a GOP pick: Charles Koch
Apr 24, 2016

US Republican Party’s biggest donor Charles Koch says “it’s possible” that Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton could make a better president than the remaining GOP candidates based on the example set by her husband’s years in the White House.

In an interview with ABC News to air on Sunday, when asked whether it's possible that another Clinton could be better than another Republican, Koch responded, "It's possible. It's possible."

He added that he believes Bill Clinton was a better president "in some ways" than George W. Bush.

"In other ways, I mean [Bill Clinton] wasn't an exemplar. But as far as the growth of government, the increase in spending, It was 2.5 times [more] under Bush than it was under Clinton," Koch said.

In his interview, Koch noted that is a result of his disgust with the rhetoric in the Republican primary, and he even suggested Clinton could be a better choice for the country than the remaining crop of GOP candidates.

<snip>

The brothers have contributed heavily to conservative campaigns and think tanks. They are among the best-known Republican donors, and potential GOP candidates court their favor.

The Kochs spent some $400 million on US politics in 2015 and are planning to cash out about $900 million to shape this year’s presidential election.

Will the Koch's support Hillary monetarily or will they cut off funds to Republicans or...?

.

Unlike Soros, the Kochs have always supported both parties. I suppose libs like them now since they will get behind Hillary.

 

[Brain357]

AND NOTHING like These events have occurred during Obama's bumbling!
Remember Recession... Dot.com bust....9/11.... worst hurricanes in history...and you ignorantly call Bush a DISASTER?

Go start a new thread if you want to claim bush was great, should get some good laughs. Bush was a disaster, even repubs admit it now. Jeb was laughed out of the running. The leading repub candidate is a bush basher. Stop embarrassing yourself.

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

 

[S.J.]

Why don't those brothers just dry up, what do they do drink blood of something?

This proves Trump is killing the GOP....

Why, because for the first time in 100 years we finally have a candidate who isn't owned by big corporations? Apparently you think being a puppet is a good thing.

Apparently you think being a moron is a good thing.

No, if I thought that, I would like you.

 

[Andylusion]

AND NOTHING like These events have occurred during Obama's bumbling!
Remember Recession... Dot.com bust....9/11.... worst hurricanes in history...and you ignorantly call Bush a DISASTER?

Go start a new thread if you want to claim bush was great, should get some good laughs. Bush was a disaster, even repubs admit it now. Jeb was laughed out of the running. The leading repub candidate is a bush basher. Stop embarrassing yourself.

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

I thought Koch was the embodiment of all that is evil. So you are agreeing with evil? Shouldn't that make you question this?

By the way, love how you can laugh at my post... but you can't answer it.

I asked specific questions. How exactly should Bush, who had only been in office a matter of eight months, magically had known about the 9/11 attacks, and prevented it?

Should he have operated on intel we didn't have, instead of the intel that we did have?

You can't answer that, but you can laugh at it. That's funny.

 

[healthmyths]

AND NOTHING like These events have occurred during Obama's bumbling!
Remember Recession... Dot.com bust....9/11.... worst hurricanes in history...and you ignorantly call Bush a DISASTER?

Go start a new thread if you want to claim bush was great, should get some good laughs. Bush was a disaster, even repubs admit it now. Jeb was laughed out of the running. The leading repub candidate is a bush basher. Stop embarrassing yourself.

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

To support your statement:"the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget."
IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

Now Obama BENEFITEd from "TARP" in that here are the FACTS... TARP was REPAID with a profit!
$672 billion paid back of the $616B outlay meaning a $56B profit! Again this was all counted as revenue in Obama's years!

 

[JimH52]

Go start a new thread if you want to claim bush was great, should get some good laughs. Bush was a disaster, even repubs admit it now. Jeb was laughed out of the running. The leading repub candidate is a bush basher. Stop embarrassing yourself.

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

I thought Koch was the embodiment of all that is evil. So you are agreeing with evil? Shouldn't that make you question this?

By the way, love how you can laugh at my post... but you can't answer it.

I asked specific questions. How exactly should Bush, who had only been in office a matter of eight months, magically had known about the 9/11 attacks, and prevented it?

Should he have operated on intel we didn't have, instead of the intel that we did have?

You can't answer that, but you can laugh at it. That's funny.

While Bush vacationed, 9/11 warnings went unheard.

 

[healthmyths]

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

I thought Koch was the embodiment of all that is evil. So you are agreeing with evil? Shouldn't that make you question this?

By the way, love how you can laugh at my post... but you can't answer it.

I asked specific questions. How exactly should Bush, who had only been in office a matter of eight months, magically had known about the 9/11 attacks, and prevented it?

Should he have operated on intel we didn't have, instead of the intel that we did have?

You can't answer that, but you can laugh at it. That's funny.

While Bush vacationed, 9/11 warnings went unheard.

From your LINK!!!!
Update, April 15, 2004: On Wednesday evening, after the hearings, a CIA spokesman called reporters to tell them Tenet had misspoken: It turns out he did brief Bush in August 2001, twice—on Aug. 17 and Aug. 31. Assuming the correction is true, it doesn't negate the point. The first briefing, which the spokesman described as uneventful, took place before Tenet learned about Moussaoui. The second occurred after the president returned to Washington.

 

[Brain357]

Go start a new thread if you want to claim bush was great, should get some good laughs. Bush was a disaster, even repubs admit it now. Jeb was laughed out of the running. The leading repub candidate is a bush basher. Stop embarrassing yourself.

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

I thought Koch was the embodiment of all that is evil. So you are agreeing with evil? Shouldn't that make you question this?

By the way, love how you can laugh at my post... but you can't answer it.

I asked specific questions. How exactly should Bush, who had only been in office a matter of eight months, magically had known about the 9/11 attacks, and prevented it?

Should he have operated on intel we didn't have, instead of the intel that we did have?

You can't answer that, but you can laugh at it. That's funny.

When did I ever call Koch evil? Trump thinks bush could have done something and he has the majority of repub support. Sorry but the argument has been lost, everyone agrees bush was a disaster.

 

[Liminal]

If he fails to support the GOP, he, in effect, supports Clinton.

Wrong again. Trump doesn't want his money so it makes absolutely no difference. Try again.

I wonder what Donald Trump intends to do about the corrupting influence of money in politics? My guess would be nothing.

The key word there is "guess".

Wrong. The key word there is "nothing".

Wrong, the key word there is "idiot", as in "Liminal".

Not much to you, is there little man.

 

[healthmyths]

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

I thought Koch was the embodiment of all that is evil. So you are agreeing with evil? Shouldn't that make you question this?

By the way, love how you can laugh at my post... but you can't answer it.

I asked specific questions. How exactly should Bush, who had only been in office a matter of eight months, magically had known about the 9/11 attacks, and prevented it?

Should he have operated on intel we didn't have, instead of the intel that we did have?

You can't answer that, but you can laugh at it. That's funny.

When did I ever call Koch evil? Trump thinks bush could have done something and he has the majority of repub support. Sorry but the argument has been lost, everyone agrees bush was a disaster.

You know when I read "Everyone agrees bush was a disaster" I find that just hilariously juvenile! "EVERYONE"???
That means 310 million people. EVERYONE???? Who in the hell is "EVERYONE" because when idiots like you obviously FORGET THESE EVENTS...
YOU CERTAINLY ARE NOT one the COMPRISES intelligent rational human being!
THESE events occurred and Bush had to do what NO president has ever had to do...CONTEND with these events while IDIOTS like you and these IDIOTS
HELPED the enemy! When will you asses understand your hatred of America is one of the reasons America is hated now!

Tell me you idiot...DID THESE EVENTS OCCUR or DID THE NOT???
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/2003-07-17-recession_x.htm

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/24/the-dot-com-bubble-how-to-lose-5-trillion/

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1124969/posts
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1461420/posts

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: http://bizfinance.about.com/od/currentevents/tp/Top_Ten_Fin_Events_Decade.htm

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history. 2,215 lives lost
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/damage1980.asp

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
http://www.bea.gov/National/index.htm
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/12/20081221-2.html

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/sam-dealey/2008/09/10/barney-franks-fannie-and-freddie-muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

 

[Stephanie]

You know the dems are desperate when they take ONE word (could) from people the HATE and turn it into an endorsement for the witch Hillary. too dang funny

 

[Brain357]

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

I thought Koch was the embodiment of all that is evil. So you are agreeing with evil? Shouldn't that make you question this?

By the way, love how you can laugh at my post... but you can't answer it.

I asked specific questions. How exactly should Bush, who had only been in office a matter of eight months, magically had known about the 9/11 attacks, and prevented it?

Should he have operated on intel we didn't have, instead of the intel that we did have?

You can't answer that, but you can laugh at it. That's funny.

When did I ever call Koch evil? Trump thinks bush could have done something and he has the majority of repub support. Sorry but the argument has been lost, everyone agrees bush was a disaster.

You know when I read "Everyone agrees bush was a disaster" I find that just hilariously juvenile! "EVERYONE"???
That means 310 million people. EVERYONE???? Who in the hell is "EVERYONE" because when idiots like you obviously FORGET THESE EVENTS...
YOU CERTAINLY ARE NOT one the COMPRISES intelligent rational human being!
THESE events occurred and Bush had to do what NO president has ever had to do...CONTEND with these events while IDIOTS like you and these IDIOTS
HELPED the enemy! When will you asses understand your hatred of America is one of the reasons America is hated now!

Tell me you idiot...DID THESE EVENTS OCCUR or DID THE NOT???
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history. 2,215 lives lost
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
http://www.bea.gov/National/index.htm
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/12/20081221-2.html

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/sam-dealey/2008/09/10/barney-franks-fannie-and-freddie-muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

You can keep babbling, but it has already been decided and even repubs agree he was a disaster. Things happen during every presidency. The good ones deal with them well and they don't go down as complete disasters. Bush failed and made bad things worse with his policies. Jeb was laughed out of the race because of his brothers record. Your claims are just comical now.

 

[JimH52]

You know the dems are desperate when they take ONE word (could) from people the HATE and turn it into an endorsement for the witch Hillary. too dang funny

Oh Staph, you crack me up!

 

[S.J.]

Wrong again. Trump doesn't want his money so it makes absolutely no difference. Try again.

I wonder what Donald Trump intends to do about the corrupting influence of money in politics? My guess would be nothing.

The key word there is "guess".

Wrong. The key word there is "nothing".

Wrong, the key word there is "idiot", as in "Liminal".

Not much to you, is there little man.

Enough to know you have no substance.

 

[Andylusion]

So why don't you use the INTERNET to prove these STATEMENTS WRONG?
BECAUSE YOU CAN"T!
Again... THESE EVENTS occurred that have never occurred in any Presidency.
PLEASE tell the millions of people affected by these events that they NEVER OCCURRED!
Recession??
Are you aware that a recession started under Clinton and became official 3/01 ended 11/01?
Because idiots don't seem to comprehend... RECESSIONS are like large ships.. it takes miles to turn one...i.e. so does a "RECESSION"...
it doesn't just start the day NBER states... it is a slow degradation and it started under CLINTON!!!
Source: USATODAY.com - It's official: 2001 recession only lasted eight months

A Major $8 trillion market loss
Are you aware that the dot.com bust occurred and cost $8 trillion in losses?
Again Clinton laid claim BUT someone had to pay and it occurred during Bush's first year!
$8 trillion in market losses MEAN lost tax revenue.
PLUS JOBS!!!!
According to the Los Angeles Times, when the dot-com bubble burst, it wiped out $8 trillion dollars in market value for tech companies.
More than half of the Internet companies created since 1995 were gone by 2004 -
and hundreds of thousands of skilled technology workers were out of jobs.
Source: The dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion

The worst attacks on the USA in History.. 3,000 deaths!!!
Obviously most of you are UNAWARE 9/11 cost 3,000 lives, $2 trillion in lost businesses,market values assets.
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100 JUST in New York.
Are you aware this happened???

Now before you idiots say "well Bush should have known"! DUMMIES... ever hear of the Gorelick Memo signed under CLINTON??
Gorelick Memo that created the wall between FBI & CIA thus no knowledge of the 9/11 bombers shared with the FBI!!!
Looks especially imprudent 10 years later.
Because the memo created a barrier for U.S. intelligence agencies to share information with the FBI, one of its unintended consequences may have been to prevent the FBI from receiving the necessary intelligence to stop the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the worst in American history.
Gorelick Memo Allegedly Impeded Probe of Clinton Fundraising Scandal
1995 memo [Clinton presidency-concerned about Chinese election sales] Gorelick wrote, stated explicitly that they would “go beyond what is legally required, [to] prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation.” GORELICK Memo!
Here read what NOT my words but other sources:
Jamie Gorelick’s wall barred anti-terror investigators from accessing the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, already in custody on an immigration violation shortly before 9/11.
At the time, an enraged FBI investigator wrote a prophetic memo to headquarters about the wall.
Whatever has happened to this — someday someone will die — and wall or not — the public will not understand why we were not more effective in throwing every resource we had at certain problems…..especially since the biggest threat to us UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection.
So, a year before the 9/11 attacks, a special unit in the U.S. military was aware of the presence of an al-Queda cell in Brooklyn, New York, and sought to share its information with the FBI but was stopped cold.Why?Because (as described in the April 16, 2004 Washington Times piece) “on March 4, 1995, [Jamie Gorelick, the then number 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department, sent a 4-page directive] to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that ‘go beyond what is legally required,’ in order to avoid ‘any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance’ that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.”
Could 9/11 Have Been Prevented? The Gorelick Memo and What We Knew

Year 2001: September 11 Terrorist Attacks
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were the events that helped shape other financial events of the decade. After that terrible day in September 2001, our economic climate was never to be the same again. It was only the third time in history that the New York Stock Exchange was shut down for a period of time. In this case, it was closed from September 10 - 17. Besides the tragic human loss of that day, the economic loss cannot even be estimated. Some estimate that there was over $60 billion in insurance losses alone. Airlines didn't fly for 3 days!
Approximately 18,000 small businesses were either displaced or destroyed in Lower Manhattan after the Twin Towers fell. There was a buildup in homeland security on all levels. 9/11 caused a catastrophic financial loss for the U.S.
Source: 10 Events That Rocked the Financial World

Anthrax Attacks...
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others.

$1 trillion in losses due to the WORST Hurricane SEASONS in history.
The worst, Katrina made landfall in Louisiana as a Category 3 in 2005. It took 1,836 lives and caused $81.2 billion in damages. It quickly became the biggest natural disaster in U.S. history, almost destroying New Orleans due to severe flooding.
Rank Disaster Year Deaths Damage* $250 Billion in damages in the 8 disasters of the top 15 disasters in history!
1. Hurricane Katrina (LA/MS/AL/FL) 2005 1833 $133,800,000,000
6. Hurricane Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 112 $27,000,000,000
7. Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 35 $17,100,000,000
8. Hurricane Rita (TX/LA) 2005 119 $17,100,000,000
9. Hurricane Charley (FL) 2004 35 $16,500,000,000
12. Midwest Floods 2008 24 $15,000,000,000
13. Hurricane Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 57 $13,000,000,000
14. 30-State Drought 2002 0 $11,400,000,000
Costliest U.S. Weather Disasters | Weather Underground

THESE events OCCURRED!
YET in SPITE of:
a) 400,000 jobs lost due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita ,
b) 2,800,000 jobs lost in alone due to 9/11,
c) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts... In spite of nearly $8 trillion in lost businesses, market values, destroyed property..

IN SPITE of the above:
2002 $157.8 billion deficit.. also 9/11 occurred and tax revenues lowered for years later due to dot.com/9-11 losses against revenue.
2003 $377.6 billion deficit.. BRAND new cabinet Homeland Security, plus loans made to businesses.. again tax revenues down..affect of 9/11
2004 $412.7 billion deficit.. Revenues up by 5.5% spending increased and economy getting back.
2005 $318.3 billion deficit.. revenues up by 14.5% deficit decreasing at rate of 22%
2006 $248.2 billion deficit.. revenues up by 11.7% deficit decrease 22%
2007 $160.7 billion deficit.. revenues up by 6.7% deficit decrease 35%
2008 $458.6 billion deficit.. revenues down and deficit INCREASED TARP loan mostly...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=20

AFTER the tax cuts Federal Tax REVENUES Increased an average of 9.78% per year!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historical

OH and yea how about THESE EVENTS that no other President ever experienced: 1) Dot.com bust-- 2) 9/11 3) Worst hurricane SEASONS...All of which made these numbers worse BUT still there was growth!!!
BEA National Economic Accounts
Average annual growth over 8 years 2.9% IN Spite of all the events AND if the housing bubble caused by the below people hadn't occurred it would have
been: 4.4% compared to what now???
2001 2.3% increase
2002 2.4%
2003 6.8%
2004 6.4%
2005 5.4%
2006 4.6%
2007 3.2%
2008 -7.7%

Failure to heed GWB warnings about the potential housing bust!
GWB's administration was LAUGHED AT BY Democrats Frank and Dodd after 17 times trying to get Fannie/Freddie fixed!
"Over the past six years, the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.
President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.
Setting the Record Straight: The Three Most Egregious Claims In The New York Times Article On The Housing Crisis

Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis .
The more people exaggerate these problems,
the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."...
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and
called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze
Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle


ONCE again I'm asking you idiot Bush bashers to prove the above statements WRONG! REFUTE the FACTS that
1) a recession started under Clinton.
2) dot.com bust started under Clinton cost $8 trillion market losses, lost jobs!
3) Clinton's Gorelick Memo prevented the CIA from Warning the FBI about 9/11.
4) 9/11 occurred
5) Anthrax attacks happened right after 9/11
6) Worst hurricane SEASONS in history occurred


Please refute these events occurred and in doing so prove these cataclysmic events didn't occur and didn't affect the country. Prove me wrong!

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

I thought Koch was the embodiment of all that is evil. So you are agreeing with evil? Shouldn't that make you question this?

By the way, love how you can laugh at my post... but you can't answer it.

I asked specific questions. How exactly should Bush, who had only been in office a matter of eight months, magically had known about the 9/11 attacks, and prevented it?

Should he have operated on intel we didn't have, instead of the intel that we did have?

You can't answer that, but you can laugh at it. That's funny.

While Bush vacationed, 9/11 warnings went unheard.

We had known that Al-qaeda was pushing to attack the US since the 1990s. Clinton was warned repeatedly about terrorist attacks.

We know for a fact that Clinton was warned in 1996 about Osama Bin Laden, and that the Saudi Government even offered to help us get him.

And this was after the 1992 Yemen bombing, and the 1993 WTC bombing. Clinton did nothing at all to even attempt to stop Al-qaeda. Which attacked again in 1998 embassies bombing. The 2000 USS Cole bombing.

Now..... Why is it that you expect President Bush to have done something to prevent an attack in just 8 months...... when you apparently have no problem with Clinton who didn't do anything to prevent that attack, or any other attack, in 8 YEARS?

And what exactly did you expect Bush to do in ONE MONTH from the warning? The warning wasn't specific. I didn't have a specific target... just a list of possible targets, only some of which were in the US. It didn't have specific people. Just a list of possible terrorists.

It's pretty easy with 20/20 hindsight that "they should have know it was these people who would get on planes, and ram them into buildings."

Even if Bush had more specific information, you can't just tell the FBI "go find..... everyone.... everywhere... and stop them". They didn't know where everyone was, or even everyone that was involved. Or what they intended to do. They had not flown planes into buildings before. Pretty easy for the arm-chair computer general 15 years later, to claim he would have known. No, you would not.

It's also hypocritical to demand that Bush do in 8 months, what Clinton didn't even attempt to do in 8 years.

 

[Star]

Yes many things happened under Bush and he dealt with them poorly. 9/11 happened under his watch and in response he started two pointless wars that cost us more lives and destabilized the whole region. He was a disaster and everyone knows it including Charles Koch, Trump and most republicans. He gave tax breaks that ruined the balanced budget he was handed by Clinton. Probably the worst president ever.

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

I thought Koch was the embodiment of all that is evil. So you are agreeing with evil? Shouldn't that make you question this?

By the way, love how you can laugh at my post... but you can't answer it.

I asked specific questions. How exactly should Bush, who had only been in office a matter of eight months, magically had known about the 9/11 attacks, and prevented it?

Should he have operated on intel we didn't have, instead of the intel that we did have?

You can't answer that, but you can laugh at it. That's funny.

While Bush vacationed, 9/11 warnings went unheard.

We had known that Al-qaeda was pushing to attack the US since the 1990s. Clinton was warned repeatedly about terrorist attacks.

We know for a fact that Clinton was warned in 1996 about Osama Bin Laden, and that the Saudi Government even offered to help us get him.

And this was after the 1992 Yemen bombing, and the 1993 WTC bombing. Clinton did nothing at all to even attempt to stop Al-qaeda. Which attacked again in 1998 embassies bombing. The 2000 USS Cole bombing.

Now..... Why is it that you expect President Bush to have done something to prevent an attack in just 8 months...... when you apparently have no problem with Clinton who didn't do anything to prevent that attack, or any other attack, in 8 YEARS?

And what exactly did you expect Bush to do in ONE MONTH from the warning? The warning wasn't specific. I didn't have a specific target... just a list of possible targets, only some of which were in the US. It didn't have specific people. Just a list of possible terrorists.

It's pretty easy with 20/20 hindsight that "they should have know it was these people who would get on planes, and ram them into buildings."

Even if Bush had more specific information, you can't just tell the FBI "go find..... everyone.... everywhere... and stop them". They didn't know where everyone was, or even everyone that was involved. Or what they intended to do. They had not flown planes into buildings before. Pretty easy for the arm-chair computer general 15 years later, to claim he would have known. No, you would not.

It's also hypocritical to demand that Bush do in 8 months, what Clinton didn't even attempt to do in 8 years.

Andylusion said: "Clinton did nothing at all to even attempt to stop Al-Qaeda"

Are you history challenged or is your memory so short you've forgotten:
FLASHBACK: Conservative Lawmakers Decried Clinton’s Attacks Against Osama As ‘Wag the Dog’

Below are several quotes gleaned from the above link...


Rep. Jim Gibbons (R-NV):
“‘Look at the movie Wag the Dog. I think this has all the elements of that movie,’ Rep. Jim Gibbons, R-Nev., said. ‘Our reaction to the embassy bombings should be based on sound credible evidence, not a knee-jerk reaction to try to direct public attention away from his personal problems.'” [Ottawa Citizen, 8/21/98]

Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA):
“There’s an obvious issue which will be raised internationally about the response here as to whether there is any diversionary motive involved. … I have deliberated consciously any references to Ms. Monica Lewinsky, but when you ask the question in very blunt terms, the president’s current problems have to be on the minds of many people.” [CNN, 8/20/98]

Former Sen. John Ashcroft (R-MO):
“‘We support the president out of a sense of duty whenever he deploys military forces, but we’re not sure – were these forces sent at this time because he needed to divert our attention from his personal problems?‘ Ashcroft said during the taping of a TV program in Manchester, N.H.” [St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 8/21/98]

Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX):
“I’m very supportive of the strike that has happened, but I will tell you that the timing is very questionable. This was the day that Monica Lewinsky has gone back to the grand jury, evidently enraged. Certainly that information will be overshadowed.” [Dallas Morning News, 8/21/98]

Former Sen. Dan Coats (R-IN):
“Coats (R-IN), a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a statement, ‘While there is clearly much more we need to learn about this attack and why it was ordered today, given the president’s personal difficulties this week, it is legitimate to question the timing of this action.‘” [CNN, 8/20/98]

Former Rep. Dave Weldon (R-FL):
“Although most in Congress rallied around Clinton on Thursday, two Republican U.S. senators and one Central Florida congressman broke with the tradition of standing behind a president during a foreign crisis.Sen. Daniel Coats, R-Ind., Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., and U.S. Rep. Dave Weldon, R-Palm Bay, publicly questioned Clinton’s motives in launching the attacks so soon after his public admission of a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky. … ‘The president has, indeed, broken the trust of the American people, and these are legitimate questions that must be answered.’” [Orlando Sentinel, 8/21/98]

Former Rep. Bob Barr (R-GA):
“All I’m saying is if factors other than good intelligence, military necessity, being prepared for the consequences entered into it, then it is wrong, and it appears that one of those factors that may have entered into it is to take something that could have been done a week ago and do it today in an effort to divert some attention.” [Fox News, 8/20/98]

.

 

[Andylusion]

So you are on the side of Koch? I thought Koch was bad? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that Bush should have magically known about 9/11 and prevented it? How?

Are you saying we should not have done anything about Osama Bin Laden, just like Clinton?

Are you saying that our president when presented with a decade worth of evidence that Saddam was thwarting UN inspections, violating the cease fire, and was attempting to get WMDs.... that he should have done nothing?

I find it hypocritical that you claim Bush should have done something about 9/11.... when there was no concrete evidence, and yet should have done absolutely nothing about Saddam, when we had tons of intel on him.

And again, the tax breaks didn't ruin the budget. Sorry but facts trump your partisan BS. The increase in deficits started BEFORE the tax cuts were passed. And the deficits declined AFTER the tax cuts passed.

What ruined the budget was the sub-prime crash, which Clinton started in 1997.

Yes me and Koch seem to agree Clinton was way better than the second Bush.

I thought Koch was the embodiment of all that is evil. So you are agreeing with evil? Shouldn't that make you question this?

By the way, love how you can laugh at my post... but you can't answer it.

I asked specific questions. How exactly should Bush, who had only been in office a matter of eight months, magically had known about the 9/11 attacks, and prevented it?

Should he have operated on intel we didn't have, instead of the intel that we did have?

You can't answer that, but you can laugh at it. That's funny.

While Bush vacationed, 9/11 warnings went unheard.

We had known that Al-qaeda was pushing to attack the US since the 1990s. Clinton was warned repeatedly about terrorist attacks.

We know for a fact that Clinton was warned in 1996 about Osama Bin Laden, and that the Saudi Government even offered to help us get him.

And this was after the 1992 Yemen bombing, and the 1993 WTC bombing. Clinton did nothing at all to even attempt to stop Al-qaeda. Which attacked again in 1998 embassies bombing. The 2000 USS Cole bombing.

Now..... Why is it that you expect President Bush to have done something to prevent an attack in just 8 months...... when you apparently have no problem with Clinton who didn't do anything to prevent that attack, or any other attack, in 8 YEARS?

And what exactly did you expect Bush to do in ONE MONTH from the warning? The warning wasn't specific. I didn't have a specific target... just a list of possible targets, only some of which were in the US. It didn't have specific people. Just a list of possible terrorists.

It's pretty easy with 20/20 hindsight that "they should have know it was these people who would get on planes, and ram them into buildings."

Even if Bush had more specific information, you can't just tell the FBI "go find..... everyone.... everywhere... and stop them". They didn't know where everyone was, or even everyone that was involved. Or what they intended to do. They had not flown planes into buildings before. Pretty easy for the arm-chair computer general 15 years later, to claim he would have known. No, you would not.

It's also hypocritical to demand that Bush do in 8 months, what Clinton didn't even attempt to do in 8 years.

Andylusion said: "Clinton did nothing at all to even attempt to stop Al-Qaeda"

Are you history challenged or is your memory so short you've forgotten:
FLASHBACK: Conservative Lawmakers Decried Clinton’s Attacks Against Osama As ‘Wag the Dog’

Below are several quotes gleaned from the above link...


Rep. Jim Gibbons (R-NV):
“‘Look at the movie Wag the Dog. I think this has all the elements of that movie,’ Rep. Jim Gibbons, R-Nev., said. ‘Our reaction to the embassy bombings should be based on sound credible evidence, not a knee-jerk reaction to try to direct public attention away from his personal problems.'” [Ottawa Citizen, 8/21/98]

Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA):
“There’s an obvious issue which will be raised internationally about the response here as to whether there is any diversionary motive involved. … I have deliberated consciously any references to Ms. Monica Lewinsky, but when you ask the question in very blunt terms, the president’s current problems have to be on the minds of many people.” [CNN, 8/20/98]

Former Sen. John Ashcroft (R-MO):
“‘We support the president out of a sense of duty whenever he deploys military forces, but we’re not sure – were these forces sent at this time because he needed to divert our attention from his personal problems?‘ Ashcroft said during the taping of a TV program in Manchester, N.H.” [St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 8/21/98]

Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX):
“I’m very supportive of the strike that has happened, but I will tell you that the timing is very questionable. This was the day that Monica Lewinsky has gone back to the grand jury, evidently enraged. Certainly that information will be overshadowed.” [Dallas Morning News, 8/21/98]

Former Sen. Dan Coats (R-IN):
“Coats (R-IN), a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a statement, ‘While there is clearly much more we need to learn about this attack and why it was ordered today, given the president’s personal difficulties this week, it is legitimate to question the timing of this action.‘” [CNN, 8/20/98]

Former Rep. Dave Weldon (R-FL):
“Although most in Congress rallied around Clinton on Thursday, two Republican U.S. senators and one Central Florida congressman broke with the tradition of standing behind a president during a foreign crisis.Sen. Daniel Coats, R-Ind., Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., and U.S. Rep. Dave Weldon, R-Palm Bay, publicly questioned Clinton’s motives in launching the attacks so soon after his public admission of a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky. … ‘The president has, indeed, broken the trust of the American people, and these are legitimate questions that must be answered.’” [Orlando Sentinel, 8/21/98]

Former Rep. Bob Barr (R-GA):
“All I’m saying is if factors other than good intelligence, military necessity, being prepared for the consequences entered into it, then it is wrong, and it appears that one of those factors that may have entered into it is to take something that could have been done a week ago and do it today in an effort to divert some attention.” [Fox News, 8/20/98]

.

Yeah, and it was. Conservative law makers knew that firing a few missiles, wasn't going to do diddly jack against Osama, or his terror network. AND IT DID NOT. Clearly history proved those conservatives right.

Moreover, the timing of the attack was OBVIOUSLY designed. Clinton had the information on the aspirin pill factory for months. Nothing new happened in August of 1998, that prompted Clinton to authorize it's destruction. The plant had been in operation since July of 1997, and the connections and suspected VX production, was known for over a year. Why attack August 20th of 1998?

There was no new evidence. They didn't attempt to collect any further proof. No new report about the plant came out. Why attack the plant then? There is only one possible reason the attack came on August 20th, 1998. Because just three days prior, he videotaped the non-stop lie fest, where he asked how to define the word "is", and if alone, really meant alone, if there were other people in the White House when he was 'alone'.

There was absolutely no logical, or even plausible reason to fire missiles into Sudan on that week in August, over any other week that year. No new information came out, no reports finally written, no super secret spy intel showed up. The only thing that happened that week in August, was that 3 days before he gave his non-stop lie fest. He did in fact, wag the dog. He used an attack on an aspirin factory, to distract from problems at home.

The conservatives were 100% right.