Zone1 Christian or allegedly Christian religions that disbelieve in eternal punishment (Hell)

[notmyfault2020]

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Well, look at what the human-founded "christian" religions have cooked up? (no pun intended.. laugh)

I didn't know the 7th Day A disbelieved in Hell. Then there is #6 on this list: Universalists who "argue that if hell exists, the punishment there is meant to correct erring sinners, and will serve as a remedial, and cannot be everlasting punishment." That describes Purgatory but OMG, that's so Catholic-sounding..! Can't have that! No sirreeeBob.. So we'll just tweak the Catholic thing and voila'--perfect doctrine!

These folks don't believe God, who is purported to be Love itself, would allow eternal punishment. Well, that's interesting because a lot of Christian denoms claim to go by the Bible alone and the Bible clearly states that there IS eternal punishment. JESUS used that exact term in Mt 25:31. So yeh, as some of us already knew, a lot of these Bible-alone folks twist and distort the Words in that Book when they find something that doesn't sound right to them. OMG! Eternal misery? No way.. can't be.. We have to "splain" this so we don't lose congregants..

 

[surada]

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Well, look at what the human-founded "christian" religions have cooked up? (no pun intended.. laugh)

I didn't know the 7th Day A disbelieved in Hell. Then there is #6 on this list: Universalists who "argue that if hell exists, the punishment there is meant to correct erring sinners, and will serve as a remedial, and cannot be everlasting punishment." That describes Purgatory but OMG, that's so Catholic-sounding..! Can't have that! No sirreeeBob.. So we'll just tweak the Catholic thing and voila'--perfect doctrine!

These folks don't believe God, who is purported to be Love itself, would allow eternal punishment. Well, that's interesting because a lot of Christian denoms claim to go by the Bible alone and the Bible clearly states that there IS eternal punishment. JESUS used that exact term in Mt 25:31. So yeh, as some of us already knew, a lot of these Bible-alone folks twist and distort the Words in that Book when they find something that doesn't sound right to them. OMG! Eternal misery? No way.. can't be.. We have to "splain" this so we don't lose congregants..

Neither Jews nor Muslims believe in eternal hell.

 

[occupied]

The prevailing christian view of the afterlife doesn't really make sense and does not seem to be the creation of a supposedly perfect, merciful God.

 

[notmyfault2020]

The prevailing christian view of the afterlife doesn't really make sense and does not seem to be the creation of a supposedly perfect, merciful God.

Maybe the problem is humans, who think what they think RE mercy and whatever else

Isaiah 55 (I believe it is 55) says that God said

"Your thoughts [He was apparently speaking to a prophet aka a human being] are not My thoughts, your ways are not My ways"

I never used to believe in such a thing as eternal punishment either. I am just as human as anyone else -- it was/is understandable to think that way. However, tht does not mean that such a thought is absolute, objective Truth with a capital T.

And then it seemed that God wanted to actually SHOW me that, yes, Hell exists and is eternal. I never had a problem believing in Hell, esp for people like Hitler and Stalin and Mao.. but I never dreamed that "most people end up in Hell" as the saints have said.

It was not the Church that changed my mind (for one thing, I was in the novus ordo "church" until recently and they tossed Hell out atVatican II, pretty much). No, it was EXPERIENCE that showed me there is a Hell and it lasts forever.

It would take all day to explain what I mean and you likely wouldn't buy it anyway...? I don't know. I don't know u from Adam.. But suffice it to say that I was shown through the rosary and also through LEARNING about my world.. how utterly evil it is, how lacking in charity and etc... and as you may have observed, Re that last thing..

Vis a vis charity.. Things are getting exponentially worse by the DAY. Peole just don't give a damn about others anymore.. So where do they go when they die if they do not repent? They go where there is malice because that is what they have propagated in the world, that is what they promoted and engaged in. So why would they go to a Place like Heaven where there is no malice? They wouldn't even WANT to be there...

 

[occupied]

Maybe the problem is humans, who think what they think RE mercy and whatever else

Isaiah 55 (I believe it is 55) says that God said

"Your thoughts [He was apparently speaking to a prophet aka a human being] are not My thoughts, your ways are not My ways"

I never used to believe in such a thing as eternal punishment either. I am just as human as anyone else -- it was/is understandable to think that way. However, tht does not mean that such a thought is absolute, objective Truth with a capital T.

And then it seemed that God wanted to actually SHOW me that, yes, Hell exists and is eternal. I never had a problem believing in Hell, esp for people like Hitler and Stalin and Mao.. but I never dreamed that "most people end up in Hell" as the saints have said.

It was not the Church that changed my mind (for one thing, I was in the novus ordo "church" until recently and they tossed Hell out atVatican II, pretty much). No, it was EXPERIENCE that showed me there is a Hell and it lasts forever.

It would take all day to explain what I mean and you likely wouldn't buy it anyway...? I don't know. I don't know u from Adam.. But suffice it to say that I was shown through the rosary and also through LEARNING about my world.. how utterly evil it is, how lacking in charity and etc... and as you may have observed, Re that last thing..

Vis a vis charity.. Things are getting exponentially worse by the DAY. Peole just don't give a damn about others anymore.. So where do they go when they die if they do not repent? They go where there is malice because that is what they have propagated in the world, that is what they promoted and engaged in. So why would they go to a Place like Heaven where there is no malice? They wouldn't even WANT to be there...

If you believe God is perfect and merciful then it follows that the afterlife is also a perfect and merciful thing. What this might be is entirely speculation. Accepting the idea of everlasting damnation is to attribute some pretty negative qualities to God that makes him not worthy of worship. If he's just a vengeful, jealous monster that will hold a grudge forever then he's no better than the average human.

 

[JoeB131]

The problem is our views of Hell and Satan are more based on Dante and Milton than anything in the Bible.

 

[surada]

The problem is our views of Hell and Satan are more based on Dante and Milton than anything in the Bible.

True... You took the words out of my mouth.

 

[notmyfault2020]

If you believe God is perfect and merciful then it follows that the afterlife is also a perfect and merciful thing. What this might be is entirely speculation. Accepting the idea of everlasting damnation is to attribute some pretty negative qualities to God that makes him not worthy of worship. If he's just a vengeful, jealous monster that will hold a grudge forever then he's no better than the average human.

sorry, but this sounds ridiculous. That's not to say that your thoughts are invalid... I suppose it just sounds ridiuclous to me because I am just "not there" anymore..

For one thing, he who frames the question basically frames the answer as well. Who said God is "just a vengeful, jealous monster"?

So there's that... I don't recall anyone here saying that...

 

[notmyfault2020]

True... You took the words out of my mouth.

not me. I am not familiar with those writers except for snippets from their writings heard here and there

 

[occupied]

sorry, but this sounds ridiculous. That's not to say that your thoughts are invalid... I suppose it just sounds ridiuclous to me because I am just "not there" anymore..

For one thing, he who frames the question basically frames the answer as well. Who said God is "just a vengeful, jealous monster"?

So there's that... I don't recall anyone here saying that...

If God will subject you to eternal agony for any reason he's a monster. The very idea of a human mind trapped in any kind of eternal existence is horrific. The traditional vision of joining some heavenly chorus and praising the God for eternity sounds like Hell. At least in Hell you get to still be yourself rather than just another voice saying the same thing for eternity.

 

[notmyfault2020]

If God will subject you to eternal agony for any reason he's a monster. The very idea of a human mind trapped in any kind of eternal existence is horrific. The traditional vision of joining some heavenly chorus and praising the God for eternity sounds like Hell. At least in Hell you get to still be yourself rather than just another voice saying the same thing for eternity.

well, you don't understand and you have a lot of stereotypical nonsense in your post.. the old sitting on a cloud with a harp thing.

That's what the devil wants you to think so he can drag you into Hell. A lot of the saints, most reliable people u could hope to know.. speak of Hell and what it is like.

And for the 1000th time, God does not send people to Hell. People sned themselves. So maybe you should be asking the Q

Why are people so self-loathing that they would let sin destroy them, in this life and in the next?

I can understand the feeling, however.. that God does not care. I've been there. In fact, because I have been through so much relationship hell, I am damaged. That means that I think God is bad every time I go through some difficult experience or another. Does that mean God is bad? or does it mean that I think everyone is bad at this point? I mean, when a person experiences X number of bad things/people.. you just don't believe much in good anymore. But again, does that mean there is no good? Does that mean there is no God who is good, does it mean there is no Heaven where all evil ceases?

At the leaast we can say "Not necessarily..."

 

[JoeB131]

well, you don't understand and you have a lot of stereotypical nonsense in your post.. the old sitting on a cloud with a harp thing.

That's what the devil wants you to think so he can drag you into Hell. A lot of the saints, most reliable people u could hope to know.. speak of Hell and what it is like.

And for the 1000th time, God does not send people to Hell. People sned themselves. So maybe you should be asking the Q

Why are people so self-loathing that they would let sin destroy them, in this life and in the next?

Wow, you make God sound like a Batman villain or an evil genie. Give someone an impossible choice, and then stick it to them when they make the wrong one.

 

[themirrorthief]

Wow, you make God sound like a Batman villain or an evil genie. Give someone an impossible choice, and then stick it to them when they make the wrong one.

the flesh goes to the grave...you cannot burn a spirit...it has no flesh

 

[occupied]

well, you don't understand and you have a lot of stereotypical nonsense in your post.. the old sitting on a cloud with a harp thing.

That's what the devil wants you to think so he can drag you into Hell. A lot of the saints, most reliable people u could hope to know.. speak of Hell and what it is like.

And for the 1000th time, God does not send people to Hell. People sned themselves. So maybe you should be asking the Q

Why are people so self-loathing that they would let sin destroy them, in this life and in the next?

I can understand the feeling, however.. that God does not care. I've been there. In fact, because I have been through so much relationship hell, I am damaged. That means that I think God is bad every time I go through some difficult experience or another. Does that mean God is bad? or does it mean that I think everyone is bad at this point? I mean, when a person experiences X number of bad things/people.. you just don't believe much in good anymore. But again, does that mean there is no good? Does that mean there is no God who is good, does it mean there is no Heaven where all evil ceases?

At the leaast we can say "Not necessarily..."

I'm just talking about the illogical idea of eternal reward and punishment. Any eternal existence would drive you mad. Minds aren't meant for infinite time spans. The problem of evil in the world is another topic.

 

[notmyfault2020]

the flesh goes to the grave...you cannot burn a spirit...it has no flesh

who says?

God made the spirit of man, not you. And you don't know enough about God to say that a spirit cannot burn. When you deny the existence of Hell you are denying 10s of thousands of years of Jewish and Catholic and Protestant beliefs.. That alone does not make you wrong. But I have learned ... I feel from God himself.. that Hell really exists. For one, you look around and see that even 'Christians' do not obey Jesus. Does that mean they are going to Hell? It depends and it's not for me to say. The reason we cannot condemn others even when we see them in mortal sin is because only God knows just how ignorant of His laws that person is.. only God knows that person, etc.. and yet people judge others and cut them out of their lives bc they are imperfect according to their criteria (not God's)... and, well... I just see a lot of sin.. in others, in myself... I don't believe I am easily going to be allowed into heaven anymore than anyone else... Sometimes when I feel esp close to God, I feel I will make it. Other times... But I cannot, as per St Paul, judge myself even. And one time in the Real Presence (found in Catholic Churches, normally anyhow), Jesus took me to a very serene and peaceful, other-worldy place... can't even put words on it.. so today, when I strt feeling like I'm not going to make it or thedevil's telling me that or...? I think of tht time when Jesus... just took over.. made me forget all about my sinfulness and etc.. and took me to that awesome place of perfect peace. Does that experience mean I will go straight to Heaven if i were to die right now? No, I do not think it means that. Maybe Jesus was just trying to show me what I had to look forward to? Maybe he knew that I would one day not have access to his Presence and would need this memory to give me hope when my weak humanity was taking over...?

 

[notmyfault2020]

I'm just talking about the illogical idea of eternal reward and punishment. Any eternal existence would drive you mad. Minds aren't meant for infinite time spans.

When you die, you leave your limited, sinful body behind. The spirit is eternal and made for eternity. It never gets old or tired

 

[JoeB131]

the flesh goes to the grave...you cannot burn a spirit...it has no flesh

I didn't say anything about burning.

As stated earlier, our images of "Hell" owe more to Dante and Milton than the Bible.

But let's assume that Hell is a pretty bad place, whether it be burning, freezing, darkness or a PowerPoint presentation that never ends.

Who actually deserves to go there?

Murderers and rapists? Sure.

Someone who wasn't born in the right religion or didn't worship God in the right way. That seems a bit messed up, yo!

And now we come to my favorite- Jeff Dahmner in Heaven and Ann Frank in hell!

Jeff Dahmner, the Milwaukee Cannibal, actually qualified for heaven. He begged forgiveness, found Jesus, was baptized into the faith and was then brained by a fellow inmate. He found salvation, which the Bible says is possible. So up to heaven he goes and hopefully, he doesn't run into anyone he ate up there, because that would be awkward.

Meanwhile, Ann Frank never accepted Jesus into her life. If fact, one could imagine her cursing Jesus as her Christian captors tortured and murdered her and her family. So down to hell she goes and hopefully she doesn't run into any Nazis down there because that would be awkward.

 

[occupied]

When you die, you leave your limited, sinful body behind. The spirit is eternal and made for eternity. It never gets old or tired

Have you ever thought about eternity? Do you feel like you can grasp just how long that is? You can't. The mathematics of very large numbers gives us a glimpse at eternity and it is terrifying. If your spirit can somehow handle existing long past the heat death of the universe then that's not you any longer. Just some lobotomized remnant staring blindly into the void of endless time.

 

[norwegen]

Have you ever thought about eternity? Do you feel like you can grasp just how long that is? You can't. The mathematics of very large numbers gives us a glimpse at eternity and it is terrifying. If your spirit can somehow handle existing long past the heat death of the universe then that's not you any longer. Just some lobotomized remnant staring blindly into the void of endless time.

Why would you think of eternity in terms of duration?

How can infinity be subject to any physical constraints?

 

[occupied]

Why would you think of eternity in terms of duration?

How can infinity be subject to any physical constraints?

Eternity is by definition an infinite duration of time.

In a couple of hundred billion years from now an event called the heat death of the universe will occur. It will be the last meaningful thing that will ever happen. Eternity will have barely begun and there will still be an infinity of time left. If we are still around we will not even remember the comparative eyeblink we were alive. The whole idea is ludicrous. Why would you want to exist that long? It's terrifying.