Zone1 Mary's sinlessness

[ninja007]

So Jesus sinned?

God cannot sin.

 

[ninja007]

You're straining to avoid the question. I say that a person is standing before God with all sin forgiven. It doesn't matter how that happened, it is the case. God is welcoming that person into His presence for eternity. Is that person full of grace or not?

she missed that little detail about how flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.

 

[ninja007]

Certainly highly favored, coming from God, means sinless. Anyhow, the RCC declared it so as a matter of faith and morals. That edict was verified by Mary herself at Lourdes.

God disagrees.

 

[ninja007]

i guess according to the rcc false teachings, since mary was sinless she couldve died on the cross for our sins instead. blasphemy- Jesus will look on every rc person at judgement and say i never knew you. they do not trust in Jesus as Savior- btw a prerequisite to going to heaven.

 

[Meriweather]

You're straining to avoid the question.

It is my answer that is being avoided. I've stated clearly the forgiveness of sins is not synonymous with being full of grace. I have stated clearly that Jesus taught turning away from the sin (repentance) for the forgiveness of that sin. I have stated covering up is not the same as there being nothing to cover. I have stated you see grace differently--and that's alright.

Why can't you accept my answer?

 

[Meriweather]

THEY ARE NOT PAULS WORDS- THEY ARE THE HOLY SPIRITS, BTW MARY SAID HERSELF SHE NEEDED A SAVIOR.

Then it follows they are not Luke's words, but the words of the Holy Spirit. Mary did not say she "needed" a savior. She said, "My soul rejoices in God my savior." God's saving grace was already present in Mary. And, as you say...words of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Meriweather]

i guess according to the rcc false teachings, since mary was sinless she couldve died on the cross for our sins instead. blasphemy- Jesus will look on every rc person at judgement and say i never knew you. they do not trust in Jesus as Savior- btw a prerequisite to going to heaven.

That overlook the awe of God himself becoming man and laying down his life for His people, which is true teaching passed on through the Catholic faith.

 

[BreezeWood]

God cannot sin.

they do not sin ... for justice they punish the guilty.

bottom line - would it make sense to be a sinner in heaven ...

nothing or anything to do w/ the desert religions - abraham moses jesus or mohamed.

 

[BreezeWood]

That overlook the awe of God himself becoming man and laying down his life for His people, which is true teaching passed on through the Catholic faith.

madeup by them in the 4th century - than just becoming sinless, self determination as the path to the everlasting being the true events of the 1st century those people gave their lives for. repudiation of the prevailing religion and hereditary idolatry.

 

[Mashmont]

God cannot sin.

But you said "ALL" have sinned. At least we now know you allow that there are exceptions.

 

[hadit]

It is my answer that is being avoided. I've stated clearly the forgiveness of sins is not synonymous with being full of grace. I have stated clearly that Jesus taught turning away from the sin (repentance) for the forgiveness of that sin. I have stated covering up is not the same as there being nothing to cover. I have stated you see grace differently--and that's alright.

Why can't you accept my answer?

Because I disagree with it. Forgiveness of sin requires grace, or God's unmerited favor. It cannot be earned, someone cannot go before God and demand that He forgive their sin because they did a bunch of prescribed penances, it's a gift, pure and simple. Therefore, someone who is completely forgiven IS full of grace, because they do not deserve it, which in turn means that one of the major verses that you claim proves Mary's sinlessness does not necessarily do so.

 

[Meriweather]

Because I disagree with it.

I know you disagree, which doesn't affect me. I've stood before God once, for a few seconds. It's not about feeling forgiven. It is not about feeling grace. It is about being filled with an overwhelming love. Love is a grace to receive and to experience. When someone loves that much, when/if we can love that much--it is that love that erases any desire to commit any sin/hurt against the beloved. It is also probably impossible to hold any sin against the beloved--even if sin were possible--where that amount of love is.

Our difference: You want to be forgiven sins. I want to avoid sin. One cannot be given forgiveness for what one has not done. Therefore, to me, forgiveness is different from grace. Grace can be given, the grace to grow in love.

 

[hadit]

I know you disagree, which doesn't affect me. I've stood before God once, for a few seconds. It's not about feeling forgiven. It is not about feeling grace. It is about being filled with an overwhelming love. Love is a grace to receive and to experience. When someone loves that much, when/if we can love that much--it is that love that erases any desire to commit any sin/hurt against the beloved. It is also probably impossible to hold any sin against the beloved--even if sin were possible--where that amount of love is.

Our difference: You want to be forgiven sins. I want to avoid sin. One cannot be given forgiveness for what one has not done. Therefore, to me, forgiveness is different from grace. Grace can be given, the grace to grow in love.

That counters what I posted from Romans 5-6. I'll stick with Romans.

 

[Meriweather]

That counters what I posted from Romans 5-6. I'll stick with Romans.

"Stick" is a good description, so stick with it. Jesus died for sinners. For you, that's where it ends. I understand that. For others, Jesus dying for sinners is the beginning. He has redeemed mankind with a love and grace so great, it fills and inspires people to quit their sin and become good. You happen to be content with sins because you believe all sins are forgiven. For you forgiveness is synonymous with grace, so full forgiveness is synonymous with fullness of grace.

 

[hadit]

"Stick" is a good description, so stick with it. Jesus died for sinners. For you, that's where it ends. I understand that. For others, Jesus dying for sinners is the beginning. He has redeemed mankind with a love and grace so great, it fills and inspires people to quit their sin and become good. You happen to be content with sins because you believe all sins are forgiven. For you forgiveness is synonymous with grace, so full forgiveness is synonymous with fullness of grace.

It is incorrect to say I am content with sin. Did you not read the passage from Romans I posted that spoke directly against that?

 

[Meriweather]

It is incorrect to say I am content with sin. Did you not read the passage from Romans I posted that spoke directly against that?

That verse is about committing even more sins to get more grace. That's not what this discussion is about. It's about fullness of grace and the idea that the fullness of forgiveness is the same as fullness of grace.

 

[rstrats]

Yes, the Saduccees and Pharisees taught incorrect things.

What were a couple of those teachings?

 

[Cougarbear]

What were a couple of those teachings?

Take the Saduccees, they refused to go beyond the Torah. They rejected the supernatural and belief in angels, demons, heaven, hell and, again, resurrection. Thus, rejected their Messiah.

 

[ding]

What were a couple of those teachings?

It didn’t seem like he answered your question. Seems like you caught him shooting from the hip.