Zone1 Christendom's Trinity - Where Did It Come From?

[Cougarbear]

onefour1:

The word diety and the word godhead cannot be translated from the same Greek word because they don't mean the same thing. The translators of the King James Version were Trinitarians, and so they deliberately inserted fabricated words such as godhead into their version of the Judeo-Christian Bible in order to mislead the gullible.

The word godhead was invented from the fabricated word godhede. The word godhede didn't show up in the Bible until 1382 when John Wycliffe published his English translation.

Alter2Ego

Why? Because you say so? Deity is a plural word as well.

onefour1:

The word diety and the word godhead cannot be translated from the same Greek word because they don't mean the same thing. The translators of the King James Version were Trinitarians, and so they deliberately inserted fabricated words such as godhead into their version of the Judeo-Christian Bible in order to mislead the gullible.

The word godhead was invented from the fabricated word godhede. The word godhede didn't show up in the Bible until 1382 when John Wycliffe published his English translation.

Alter2Ego

So, in Col 2:9, Jesus Christ is called deity which also means God. Therefore, in John1:1, In the beginning was the Word (Jesus or Jehovah as God/Deity. And, the Word was WITH God. He's not beside himself. He is with another Deity, God the Father. And, the word was God/Deity. No question then that there are two Deities mentioned here. Therefore, it is appropriate to insert or clarify Colossians 2:9 with "Godhead." the Greek word then is plural in Colossians. Nothing fabricated, just clarified.

What is the Godhead? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Godhead? Is the Godhead the same thing as the Trinity? Is the idea of a Godhead biblical?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Alter2Ego]

Why? Because you say so? Deity is a plural word as well.

So, in Col 2:9, Jesus Christ is called deity which also means God. Therefore, in John1:1, In the beginning was the Word (Jesus or Jehovah as God/Deity. And, the Word was WITH God. He's not beside himself. He is with another Deity, God the Father. And, the word was God/Deity. No question then that there are two Deities mentioned here. Therefore, it is appropriate to insert or clarify Colossians 2:9 with "Godhead." the Greek word then is plural in Colossians. Nothing fabricated, just clarified.

What is the Godhead? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Godhead? Is the Godhead the same thing as the Trinity? Is the idea of a Godhead biblical?

www.gotquestions.org

Cougarbear:

Below is John 1:1 broken down into its three independent clauses.

"[CLAUSE #1] In the beginning was the Word, [CLAUSE #2] and the Word was with God, [CLAUSE #3] and the Word was God."


The person referred to as "the Word" at John 1:1 (Clause #1) cannot be Jehovah the Father, because scripture says Jehovah the Father does not have a beginning and does not have an end.

"{1} LORD JEHOVAH, you have been a dwelling place for us for a generation of generations. {2} Before the mountains would have been brought forth, or ever you would have brought forth the world, or the world had ever been acquired, from eternity unto eternity you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)


"{1} Prayer to Moses the man of God. O Jehovah, thou wert a refuge to us in generation and generation. {2} Before the mountains were born, and the earth shall be begun, and the habitable globe, and from forever even to forever, thou art God." (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Smith's Literal Translation)

​

"{1} O Jehovah, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations. {2} Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, From everlasting to everlasting, you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- New World Translation)

​

John 1:1 at Clause #1 can only apply to Jesus (the son) who is repeatedly referred to as having been "begotten."

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16 -- King James Version)


The problem with Trinitarians is that they focus on Clause #3 which was manipulated by the Trinitarian translators who deliberately ignored Clause #1 and Clause #2, as well as other parts of the context within John chapter 1.


Alter2Ego

 

[kjw47]

You've failed with me. Pathetically I might add. All you have managed is to miss the seeds with your horse manure and contaminate the world.

You reason out of this heart-Jeremiah 17:9 as most on Earth do. Jesus warned all they don't know the true God=John 15:20-21

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

Below is John 1:1 broken down into its three independent clauses.

"[CLAUSE #1] In the beginning was the Word, [CLAUSE #2] and the Word was with God, [CLAUSE #3] and the Word was God."


The person referred to as "the Word" at John 1:1 (Clause #1) cannot be Jehovah the Father, because scripture says Jehovah the Father does not have a beginning and does not have an end.

"{1} LORD JEHOVAH, you have been a dwelling place for us for a generation of generations. {2} Before the mountains would have been brought forth, or ever you would have brought forth the world, or the world had ever been acquired, from eternity unto eternity you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)


"{1} Prayer to Moses the man of God. O Jehovah, thou wert a refuge to us in generation and generation. {2} Before the mountains were born, and the earth shall be begun, and the habitable globe, and from forever even to forever, thou art God." (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Smith's Literal Translation)

​

"{1} O Jehovah, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations. {2} Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, From everlasting to everlasting, you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- New World Translation)

​

John 1:1 at Clause #1 can only apply to Jesus (the son) who is repeatedly referred to as having been "begotten."

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16 -- King James Version)


The problem with Trinitarians is that they focus on Clause #3 which was manipulated by the Trinitarian translators who deliberately ignored Clause #1 and Clause #2, as well as other parts of the context within John chapter 1.


Alter2Ego

Well, the verse says "In the beginning." So, there was a beginning. That means by your opinion Jehovah cannot be the Father. Which makes sense since you also believe "God" is the Father and cannot be the Son. Therefore, you are wrong with by your own word. Fortunately, Jesus Christ is the Word full of grace and truth. And, it is Jehovah, the Son, that came to Moses. Most likely the Father was there too as he was with Jehovah when they appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith. The Lord God of the OT is Jehovah, Jesus Christ as John 10:34 and Psalms 82:6 prove. Jesus said, "I said ye are gods" referring to what he told David in Psalms 82:6. And, I also told you that ye are children of the most high God, the Father.

 

[Cougarbear]

You reason out of this heart-Jeremiah 17:9 as most on Earth do. Jesus warned all they don't know the true God=John 15:20-21

That is correct that you do not know the everlasting Godhead.

 

[kjw47]

That is correct that you do not know the everlasting Godhead.

Isaiah 44:6-I am YHVH(Jehovah) beside me ( not we as you serve) there is no other God.
Gods word proves your darkness.

 

[Cougarbear]

Isaiah 44:6-I am YHVH(Jehovah) beside me ( not we as you serve) there is no other God.
Gods word proves your darkness.

Been over that poor opinion of that scripture.

 

[irosie91]

Not all Christians accept the he Catholic trinity

Freud has his own concept of that which is THREE----see his
book "ON DREAMS"

 

[Alter2Ego]

Well, the verse says "In the beginning." So, there was a beginning. That means by your opinion Jehovah cannot be the Father. Which makes sense since you also believe "God" is the Father and cannot be the Son. Therefore, you are wrong with by your own word. Fortunately, Jesus Christ is the Word full of grace and truth. And, it is Jehovah, the Son, that came to Moses. Most likely the Father was there too as he was with Jehovah when they appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith. The Lord God of the OT is Jehovah, Jesus Christ as John 10:34 and Psalms 82:6 prove. Jesus said, "I said ye are gods" referring to what he told David in Psalms 82:6. And, I also told you that ye are children of the most high God, the Father.

Cougarbear:

Where are you getting that nonsense from? I have repeatedly informed those reading this thread that Jehovah is the Father. I also showed you at Post 102 scripture at Psalm 90:1-2 that says Jehovah the Father does not have a beginning. Below, once again, are three renditions of Psalm 90:1-2.

"{1} LORD JEHOVAH, you have been a dwelling place for us for a generation of generations. {2} Before the mountains would have been brought forth, or ever you would have brought forth the world, or the world had ever been acquired, from eternity unto eternity you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)


"{1} Prayer to Moses the man of God. O Jehovah, thou wert a refuge to us in generation and generation. {2} Before the mountains were born, and the earth shall be begun, and the habitable globe, and from forever even to forever, thou art God." (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Smith's Literal Translation)

​

"{1} O Jehovah, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations. {2} Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, From everlasting to everlasting, you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- New World Translation)

Jehovah (the father) is clearly identified by name in those three quotations, and each of them say in plain language that he is "from eternity unto eternity" which is the same as "from forever to forever" and also means "from everlasting to everlasting." All of those expressions that I bolded and quoted mean the same thing: Jehovah does not have a beginning and does not have an end. In other words, Jehovah has always existed.

Meanwhile, scripture at John 1:1, Clause #1, says Jesus aka "the Word" had a beginning. "In the beginning was the Word...." That single clause #1 debunks Christendom's Trinity, because according to the official Trinity doctrine, the Father, Son, and holy spirit/holy ghost are supposed to be co-eternal.



Alter2Ego

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

Where are you getting that nonsense from? I have repeatedly informed those reading this thread that Jehovah is the Father. I also showed you at Post 102 scripture at Psalm 90:1-2 that says Jehovah the Father does not have a beginning. Below, once again, are three renditions of Psalm 90:1-2.

"{1} LORD JEHOVAH, you have been a dwelling place for us for a generation of generations. {2} Before the mountains would have been brought forth, or ever you would have brought forth the world, or the world had ever been acquired, from eternity unto eternity you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)


"{1} Prayer to Moses the man of God. O Jehovah, thou wert a refuge to us in generation and generation. {2} Before the mountains were born, and the earth shall be begun, and the habitable globe, and from forever even to forever, thou art God." (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Smith's Literal Translation)

​

"{1} O Jehovah, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations. {2} Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, From everlasting to everlasting, you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- New World Translation)

Jehovah (the father) is clearly identified by name in those three quotations, and each of them say in plain language that he is "from eternity unto eternity" which is the same as "from forever to forever" and also means "from everlasting to everlasting." All of those expressions that I bolded and quoted mean the same thing: Jehovah does not have a beginning and does not have an end. In other words, Jehovah has always existed.

Meanwhile, scripture at John 1:1, Clause #1, says Jesus aka "the Word" had a beginning. "In the beginning was the Word...." That single clause #1 debunks Christendom's Trinity, because according to the official Trinity doctrine, the Father, Son, and holy spirit/holy ghost are supposed to be co-eternal.



Alter2Ego

See, you are interpreting the words based on your own confirmation bias. Jehovah is NOT the Father. He is the Son. Elohim is the Father. Both are God's and members of the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The scriptures back this up.

 

[Alter2Ego]

See, you are interpreting the words based on your own confirmation bias. Jehovah is NOT the Father. He is the Son. Elohim is the Father. Both are God's and members of the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The scriptures back this up.

Cougarbear:

I just quoted you Psalms 90:1-2 that says Jehovah has no beginning, so obviously Jehovah is not the Son.


"{1} LORD JEHOVAH, you have been a dwelling place for us for a generation of generations. {2} Before the mountains would have been brought forth, or ever you would have brought forth the world, or the world had ever been acquired, from eternity unto eternity you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)


John 1:1 says Jesus/the Word had a beginning.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."


Jesus/the Word is the created Son who had a beginning.


Alter2Ego

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

I just quoted you Psalms 90:1-2 that says Jehovah has no beginning, so obviously Jehovah is not the Son.


"{1} LORD JEHOVAH, you have been a dwelling place for us for a generation of generations. {2} Before the mountains would have been brought forth, or ever you would have brought forth the world, or the world had ever been acquired, from eternity unto eternity you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2 -- Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)


John 1:1 says Jesus/the Word had a beginning.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."


Jesus/the Word is the created Son who had a beginning.


Alter2Ego

Your problem with this is you have no idea what it means Jehovah or Elohim has no beginning. And, why does it say from "eternity" to "eternity" since eternity means forever. And, in John 1:1 it is talking about the beginning of the universe or earth, not Jehovah or Elohim. Good grief. Are you using copilot or something to come up with this stuff?

 

[Alter2Ego]

Your problem with this is you have no idea what it means Jehovah or Elohim has no beginning. And, why does it say from "eternity" to "eternity" since eternity means forever. And, in John 1:1 it is talking about the beginning of the universe or earth, not Jehovah or Elohim. Good grief. Are you using copilot or something to come up with this stuff?

Cougarbear:

The word elohim is nothing more than a title meaning "god." The term elohim is applied to the true God, Jehovah (the Father), as well as to false gods and even to humans who are in positions of power.

"Elohim, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges...."

Elohim | Ancient, Monotheistic, Supreme Being | Britannica

Elohim, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeṭim),

www.britannica.com

Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

Your problem with this is you have no idea what it means Jehovah or Elohim has no beginning. And, why does it say from "eternity" to "eternity" since eternity means forever. And, in John 1:1 it is talking about the beginning of the universe or earth, not Jehovah or Elohim. Good grief. Are you using copilot or something to come up with this stuff?

Cougarbear:

That's false. John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word...." and makes no mention of the universe.

Alter2Ego

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

The word elohim is nothing more than a title meaning "god." The term elohim is applied to the true God, Jehovah (the Father), as well as to false gods and even to humans who are in positions of power.

"Elohim, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges...."

Elohim | Ancient, Monotheistic, Supreme Being | Britannica

Elohim, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeṭim),

www.britannica.com

Alter2Ego

No, you have it backwards. God is the title. Elohim is the name of one of the God's in the Godhead. When you write "Elohim, the GOD of Israel" it clarifies God as the title, not the name. Like Alter of Ego. Ego is the title and Alter is the name. See, it's how you read and interpret what is written that counts. Jehovah is not the Father. Jehovah is the Son, Jesus Christ. In John 10:34, he says, "Is it not written in your law, I SAID, Ye are gods?" He's plainly telling the people he said it to David in Psalms 82:6. Why is this so hard to understand? So, your definition from Britannica is incorrect about Elohim. The God of Israel is Jehovah, Jesus Christ. Are you going to believe Britannica or Jesus Christ? Tick-Tock-Tick-Tock.......

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

That's false. John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word...." and makes no mention of the universe.

Alter2Ego

In the beginning of what? Why do you suppose it's the beginning before the universe was organized or created? I'm going to revert back to the Genesis 1:1 since we are talking about John 1:1. Makes sense now. The beginning of the written word concerning God and his dealings with mankind.

Now that we have that cleared up, it is correct that there was no beginning to God or any of us for that matter. We are all energy which has existed forever and ever. Just like there is no smallest number. Wrap your head around that one too. Energy or intelligence and God the Father was the greatest of all intelligences. At least the first Father because as man is now, "God the Father once was. As God the Father is now, man may become." (I can hear your head exploding)

 

[Alter2Ego]

In the beginning of what? Why do you suppose it's the beginning before the universe was organized or created? I'm going to revert back to the Genesis 1:1 since we are talking about John 1:1. Makes sense now. The beginning of the written word concerning God and his dealings with mankind.

Now that we have that cleared up, it is correct that there was no beginning to God or any of us for that matter. We are all energy which has existed forever and ever. Just like there is no smallest number. Wrap your head around that one too. Energy or intelligence and God the Father was the greatest of all intelligences. At least the first Father because as man is now, "God the Father once was. As God the Father is now, man may become." (I can hear your head exploding)

Cougarbear:

I'm glad you asked.

When scripture at John 1:1, Clause #1 says: "In the beginning was the Word," it's talking about the beginning of creation. Scripture says Jesus (the Son) was the very first of Jehovah (the Father's) creations.

Since Jesus is a created being, he could not possibly be part of a trinity with Jehovah the Father? Why not? Because in the official definition of Christendom's Trinity, it says the Father, Son, and holy spirit are co-eternal.


Christendom's Trinity is defined as follows:
"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things both visible and indivisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be three persons, of ONE substance, power, and ETERNITY; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."

Article I: Of faith in the Holy Trinitymb-soft.com is registered with Pair Domains


Definition of eternal:
"without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( temporal ):"

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

An eternal person cannot have a beginning. John 1:1 at Clause #1 says Jesus had a beginning.


Alter2Ego

 

[theHawk]

Although Trinity is the most important doctrine within most of Christendom's 41,000 denominations, Trinitarians ignore the following facts:



1. There are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible in support of the dogma of a 3-in-1 god, in which there are three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) that are co-equal and co-eternal.

2. Neither Jesus Christ nor his disciples of the 1st century AD promoted the teaching that there are three persons within a "godhead," all of whom are co-equal and co-eternal.

3. Trinity did not become official Christian teaching until the 4th century AD, some 300 years after Jesus Christ left the earthly scene and returned to heavenly life, and some 300 years after the last book of the Bible was written.


It would surprise some that there were trinity gods throughout the pagan world for centuries before the idea of a 3-in-1 god was adopted by Christendom. Below are four such examples:


A. In the 2nd century BCE (two centuries before Jesus Christ came to the earth), Egypt had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Horus, (2) Osiris, and (3) Isis.


B. In the 2nd century B.C.E., Babylon had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Ishtar, (2) Sin, and (3) Shamash.


C. In the 1st century C.E., Palmyra, which was an ancient city in Syria, had a triune god which consisted of (1) moon god, (2) Lord of Heavens, and (3) sun god.


D. Even the Hindus in India have their own trinity of gods, as follows: (1) Brahma, (2) Vishnu, and (3) Shiva.



QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:

1. If the teaching of a Trinity god is essential to Christianity, how is it that the doctrine is nowhere to be found in scriptures within Jehovah's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible?



2. If Jesus Christ is part of a trinity in which he has the same power (co-equal) and the same eternity (co-eternal) as Jehovah the Father, how is it that the scriptures repeatedly inform us that Jesus Christ is subservient to Almighty God Jehovah (indicating inequality) and why is it that scripture tells us over and over again that Jesus Christ is "begotten" (indicating he had a beginning)?



3. Why did it take two Roman Emperors/politicians, neither of whom were Christians, to enforce the official Trinity dogma some 300 years after Jesus Christ left the earthly scene?

It’s all in the Old Testament.

Exodus 23:20-22
“Behold, I will send an angel before you to protect you on your way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21 Pay heed to him and listen to his voice and do not rebel against him for he will not pardon your transgression since my name is in him.22 If you listen to his voice and do what I will tell you, I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

Only God can forgive sins. Yet God is saying he will send “an angel”, a messenger, to lead the Hebrews and that he has the power to forgive.


In Judges chapter 6, Gideon meets “an angel” yet the angel is confirmed to actually be the Lord (6:16, 6:21-23).

The Spirit of the Lord is also in this same chapter.
34 “The Spirit of the Lord came upon Gideon, and he blew his trumpet,”


And of course there is Genesis chapters 18 and 19, when Abraham meets three men, all are addressed as The Lord.

And why is the Lord having a conversion with himself?

17;The Lord said, “Should I keep hidden from Abraham what I am about to do, 18 for Abraham shall become a great and powerful nation and all of the nations of the earth shall be blessed through him? 19 I chose him so that he would instruct his sons and his family after him to observe the ways of the Lord and to act with justice and righteousness so that the Lord might fulfill what he has promised to Abraham.”

Two of them depart for Sodom and one remains with Abraham:
22 While the two men departed and journeyed toward Sodom, Abraham remained standing before the Lord.

So clearly the man with Abraham is the Lord. Yet also the two men who arrive at Sodom and meet Lot in chapter 19 are also God. They destroy Sodom:
24 The Lord then rained sulfur and fire from the heavens upon Sodom and Gomorrah.


God manifests himself as three personalities. It’s in the oldest books of the Bible.

So your claim this is all “made up” thousands of years later is a complete and total lie.


You are obviously bought into the lies of Satan and are trying to deceive people from the truth. You are a heretic.

 

[theHawk]

An eternal person cannot have a beginning. John 1:1 at Clause #1 says Jesus had a beginning

The Son is eternal.

When he became incarnate through the Virgin Mary, he became human as well. His human life had a beginning and a death (the separation of the soul/spirit from the body).

 

[Street Juice]

Judeo-Christian Bible i

LOL. The "Judeo-Christian Bible?" What the Holy Jehovan fuck is that?

NT God: Love your neighbors.
OT God: Genocide your neighbors.

Christian: Duh...Dem is the same God...cauz, you know...uh...that man on TV said so and that's why I'm stupid as a doorknob and easily manipulated and am literally helping Jews commit genocide. Because godsaid and stuff like that....duh....drool...

Jew: Teeheehee