Zone1 On the fall of Lucifer

[toobfreak]

Not only no hell but no human race.

Explain.

 

[Woodznutz]

Explain.

Paradise earth was made for the angels. If they had not sinned God wouldn't have needed a plan of restoration. Recall that the sin of Eve (and Adam) was just a reenactment of Lucifers rebellion.

 

[onefour1]

I believe the true church cannot be identified by any particular denomination. The church is a spiritual organism led by the Holy Spirit.

Recall that the church went into hiding for 1260 years. It is unlikely that there was a unified church during that period.

I think you are referring to the woman (who is the church) mentioned in Revelation 12:1-6. She flees in the wilderness where she is nourished there for 1260 day (each day for a year). Signs of apostasy were already showing up in the church of the 1st century and after the Apostles were killed the church began to fall away quickly. We don't have an exact date that the church was fully taken from earth with all its priesthood power and its organization but it did fall in apostasy as is known in the church as the Great Apostasy. This is why we believe there was a necessity of a restoration of the church. We believe that God restored his true church upon the face of this earth through the prophet Joseph Smith in 1830. If we take 1260 from 1830 we are left with 570. So maybe in the year 570 the church was truly and completely lost from the face of this earth.

The Apostasy​

Introduction​

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affirms to the world that after the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ and the subsequent death of His Apostles, there was a falling away—an altering or a rejecting of His revealed word. The long night of apostasy lasted well over a millennium. During this period, man-made creeds and practices were substituted for the plan of salvation that Jesus had taught.

Doctrinal Outline​

1. The Savior organized His Church and taught saving principles and ordinances during His earthly ministry.
   
   See Ephesians 2:19–21; 4:11–14; John 3:5; Acts 2:37–38; 1 Corinthians 12:28.
2. A great apostasy from the Savior’s Church was foretold.
   
   1. Old Testament prophets predicted an apostasy (see Isaiah 24:5–6; Amos 8:11–12).
   2. New Testament prophets warned that mankind would turn away from the gospel (see Acts 20:29–30; 2 Thessalonians 2:1–4; 2 Timothy 4:3–4; 2 Peter 2:1–3).
3. A universal apostasy occurred after the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ.
   
   1. Early Apostles warned of growing apostasy within the Church (see Galatians 1:6–8; 2 Peter 2:1–3; 1 Corinthians 1:10–12; 11:18–19; 2 Timothy 1:15; Revelation 3:14–16).
   2. Latter-day revelation confirms the reality of the Apostasy as foretold by Christ and His Apostles (see Joseph Smith—History 1:19).

Supporting Statements​

1. The Savior organized His Church and taught saving principles and ordinances during His earthly ministry.
   
   • “In the dispensation of the meridian of time Jesus Christ established His Church upon the earth, appointing therein the officers necessary for the carrying out of the Father’s purposes. Every person so appointed was divinely commissioned with authority to officiate in the ordinances of his calling; and, after Christ’s ascension, the same organization was continued, those who had received authority ordaining others to the various offices in the Priesthood. In this way were given unto the Church, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, high priests, seventies, elders, bishops, priests, teachers, and deacons” (James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith, 198).
   • “[Jesus Christ] made provision for the establishment of his Church in the Meridian of Time, and he instructed his Apostles to complete the organization of the Church and to carry its message to all the world” (Hugh B. Brown, in Conference Report, Apr. 1965, 40).
   • “The Church was first organized on earth in the days of Adam, with that great patriarch standing as its first president, the presiding high priest over God’s earthly kingdom. The common sectarian notion that the day of Pentecost is the birthday of the Christian Church is a false heresy. Whenever the gospel has been on earth, it has been taught and administered in and through Christ’s Church. The Church or kingdom as organized in the meridian of time by our Lord and his apostolic ministers was a restored Church” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 133).
2. A great apostasy from the Savior’s Church was foretold.
   
   • “We affirm that the great apostasy was foretold by the Savior Himself while He lived as a Man among men, and by His inspired prophets both before and after the period of His earthly probation” (James E. Talmage, The Great Apostasy, 19).
   • “The foreknowledge of God made plain to Him even from the beginning this falling away from the truth; and, through inspiration the prophets of old uttered solemn warnings of the approaching dangers” (Talmage, Articles of Faith, 202).
   • “Prophecy and history predict and record a great and universal apostasy which was to be followed by a restoration as predicted by John in Revelation. The fact of the great apostasy is attested by both sacred and secular writ, and history bears witness that it became universal” (Hugh B. Brown, in Conference Report, Oct. 1964, 102).
3. A universal apostasy occurred after the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ.
   
   • “For over seventeen hundred years on the eastern hemisphere, and for more than fourteen centuries on the western, there appears to have been silence between the heavens and the earth. Of direct revelation from God to man during this long interval, we have no authentic record. As already shown, the period of apostolic ministry on the eastern continent probably terminated before the dawn of the second century of the Christian era. The passing of the apostles was followed by the rapid development of a universal apostasy as had been foreseen and predicted.
     
     “In the accomplishment of this great falling away, external and internal causes cooperated. Among the disintegrating forces acting from without, the most effective was the persistent persecution to which the saints were subjected, incident to both Judaistic and pagan opposition. Vast numbers who had professed membership and many who had been officers in the ministry deserted the Church; while a few were stimulated to greater zeal under the scourge of persecution. The general effect of opposition from the outside—of external causes of decline in faith and works considered as a whole—was the defection of individuals, resulting in a widespread apostasy from the Church. But immeasurably more serious was the result of internal dissension, schism and disruption, whereby an absolute apostasy of the Church from the way and word of God was brought about” (James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, 745).
   • “The most important of the internal causes by which the apostasy of the Primitive Church was brought about may be thus summarized: (1) The corrupting of the simple doctrines of the gospel of Christ by admixture with so-called philosophic systems. (2) Unauthorized additions to the prescribed rites of the Church and the introduction of vital alterations in essential ordinances. (3) Unauthorized changes in Church organization and government” (Talmage, Jesus the Christ, 748–49).
   • “If the Savior had come back to earth at the beginning of the fifth century A.D., I doubt whether he would have recognized the Christian Church as the one that claimed descent from that which he had established, so far had it gone astray. Christianity had actually become a composite of Christian beliefs, practices, and doctrines; Jewish teachings and rituals; Greek, Roman, and Egyptian pagan philosophies; and pagan religions of various brands. The Holy Priesthood had been withdrawn from the earth. The power of godliness was no longer present in the Christian Church. Thus there was a complete falling away from the gospel which had been established by the Son of Man. The Church lay in darkness, and the darkness enveloped the earth. This spiritual darkness continued for hundreds and hundreds of years” (Milton R. Hunter, “The Missionary Assignment,” Improvement Era, Dec. 1951, 920).
   • “This is not a continuous church, nor is it one that has been reformed or redeemed. It has been restored after it was lost. It was lost—the gospel with its powers and blessings—sometime after the Savior’s crucifixion and the loss of his apostles. The laws were changed, the ordinances were changed, and the everlasting covenant was broken that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to his people in those days. There was a long period of centuries when the gospel was not available to people on this earth, because it had been changed” (Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 423).
   • “In the early centuries of the Christian era, the apostasy came not through persecution, but by relinquishment of faith caused by the superimposing of a man-made structure upon and over the divine program. Many men with no pretense nor claim to revelation, speaking without divine authority or revelation, depending only upon their own brilliant minds, but representing as they claim the congregations of the Christians and in long conference and erudite councils, sought the creation process to make a God which all could accept.
     
     “The brilliant minds with their philosophies, knowing much about the Christian traditions and the pagan philosophies, would combine all elements to please everybody. They replaced the simple ways and program of the Christ with spectacular rituals, colorful display, impressive pageantry, and limitless pomposity, and called it Christianity. They had replaced the glorious, divine plan of exaltation of Christ with an elaborate, colorful, man-made system. They seemed to have little idea of totally dethroning the Christ, nor terminating the life of God, as in our own day, but they put together an incomprehensible God idea” (Kimball, Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 425).

 

[onefour1]

So, going back to my original post why do you think that God the Father rejected the plan of Lucifer?

 

[Woodznutz]

I think you are referring to the woman (who is the church) mentioned in Revelation 12:1-6. She flees in the wilderness where she is nourished there for 1260 day (each day for a year). Signs of apostasy were already showing up in the church of the 1st century and after the Apostles were killed the church began to fall away quickly. We don't have an exact date that the church was fully taken from earth with all its priesthood power and its organization but it did fall in apostasy as is known in the church as the Great Apostasy. This is why we believe there was a necessity of a restoration of the church. We believe that God restored his true church upon the face of this earth through the prophet Joseph Smith in 1830. If we take 1260 from 1830 we are left with 570. So maybe in the year 570 the church was truly and completely lost from the face of this earth.

The Apostasy​

Introduction​

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affirms to the world that after the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ and the subsequent death of His Apostles, there was a falling away—an altering or a rejecting of His revealed word. The long night of apostasy lasted well over a millennium. During this period, man-made creeds and practices were substituted for the plan of salvation that Jesus had taught.

Doctrinal Outline​

1. The Savior organized His Church and taught saving principles and ordinances during His earthly ministry.
   
   See Ephesians 2:19–21; 4:11–14; John 3:5; Acts 2:37–38; 1 Corinthians 12:28.
2. A great apostasy from the Savior’s Church was foretold.
   1. Old Testament prophets predicted an apostasy (see Isaiah 24:5–6; Amos 8:11–12).
   2. New Testament prophets warned that mankind would turn away from the gospel (see Acts 20:29–30; 2 Thessalonians 2:1–4; 2 Timothy 4:3–4; 2 Peter 2:1–3).
3. A universal apostasy occurred after the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ.
   1. Early Apostles warned of growing apostasy within the Church (see Galatians 1:6–8; 2 Peter 2:1–3; 1 Corinthians 1:10–12; 11:18–19; 2 Timothy 1:15; Revelation 3:14–16).
   2. Latter-day revelation confirms the reality of the Apostasy as foretold by Christ and His Apostles (see Joseph Smith—History 1:19).

Supporting Statements​

1. The Savior organized His Church and taught saving principles and ordinances during His earthly ministry.
   • “In the dispensation of the meridian of time Jesus Christ established His Church upon the earth, appointing therein the officers necessary for the carrying out of the Father’s purposes. Every person so appointed was divinely commissioned with authority to officiate in the ordinances of his calling; and, after Christ’s ascension, the same organization was continued, those who had received authority ordaining others to the various offices in the Priesthood. In this way were given unto the Church, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, high priests, seventies, elders, bishops, priests, teachers, and deacons” (James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith, 198).
   • “[Jesus Christ] made provision for the establishment of his Church in the Meridian of Time, and he instructed his Apostles to complete the organization of the Church and to carry its message to all the world” (Hugh B. Brown, in Conference Report, Apr. 1965, 40).
   • “The Church was first organized on earth in the days of Adam, with that great patriarch standing as its first president, the presiding high priest over God’s earthly kingdom. The common sectarian notion that the day of Pentecost is the birthday of the Christian Church is a false heresy. Whenever the gospel has been on earth, it has been taught and administered in and through Christ’s Church. The Church or kingdom as organized in the meridian of time by our Lord and his apostolic ministers was a restored Church” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 133).
2. A great apostasy from the Savior’s Church was foretold.
   • “We affirm that the great apostasy was foretold by the Savior Himself while He lived as a Man among men, and by His inspired prophets both before and after the period of His earthly probation” (James E. Talmage, The Great Apostasy, 19).
   • “The foreknowledge of God made plain to Him even from the beginning this falling away from the truth; and, through inspiration the prophets of old uttered solemn warnings of the approaching dangers” (Talmage, Articles of Faith, 202).
   • “Prophecy and history predict and record a great and universal apostasy which was to be followed by a restoration as predicted by John in Revelation. The fact of the great apostasy is attested by both sacred and secular writ, and history bears witness that it became universal” (Hugh B. Brown, in Conference Report, Oct. 1964, 102).
3. A universal apostasy occurred after the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ.
   • “For over seventeen hundred years on the eastern hemisphere, and for more than fourteen centuries on the western, there appears to have been silence between the heavens and the earth. Of direct revelation from God to man during this long interval, we have no authentic record. As already shown, the period of apostolic ministry on the eastern continent probably terminated before the dawn of the second century of the Christian era. The passing of the apostles was followed by the rapid development of a universal apostasy as had been foreseen and predicted.
     
     “In the accomplishment of this great falling away, external and internal causes cooperated. Among the disintegrating forces acting from without, the most effective was the persistent persecution to which the saints were subjected, incident to both Judaistic and pagan opposition. Vast numbers who had professed membership and many who had been officers in the ministry deserted the Church; while a few were stimulated to greater zeal under the scourge of persecution. The general effect of opposition from the outside—of external causes of decline in faith and works considered as a whole—was the defection of individuals, resulting in a widespread apostasy from the Church. But immeasurably more serious was the result of internal dissension, schism and disruption, whereby an absolute apostasy of the Church from the way and word of God was brought about” (James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, 745).
   • “The most important of the internal causes by which the apostasy of the Primitive Church was brought about may be thus summarized: (1) The corrupting of the simple doctrines of the gospel of Christ by admixture with so-called philosophic systems. (2) Unauthorized additions to the prescribed rites of the Church and the introduction of vital alterations in essential ordinances. (3) Unauthorized changes in Church organization and government” (Talmage, Jesus the Christ, 748–49).
   • “If the Savior had come back to earth at the beginning of the fifth century A.D., I doubt whether he would have recognized the Christian Church as the one that claimed descent from that which he had established, so far had it gone astray. Christianity had actually become a composite of Christian beliefs, practices, and doctrines; Jewish teachings and rituals; Greek, Roman, and Egyptian pagan philosophies; and pagan religions of various brands. The Holy Priesthood had been withdrawn from the earth. The power of godliness was no longer present in the Christian Church. Thus there was a complete falling away from the gospel which had been established by the Son of Man. The Church lay in darkness, and the darkness enveloped the earth. This spiritual darkness continued for hundreds and hundreds of years” (Milton R. Hunter, “The Missionary Assignment,” Improvement Era, Dec. 1951, 920).
   • “This is not a continuous church, nor is it one that has been reformed or redeemed. It has been restored after it was lost. It was lost—the gospel with its powers and blessings—sometime after the Savior’s crucifixion and the loss of his apostles. The laws were changed, the ordinances were changed, and the everlasting covenant was broken that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to his people in those days. There was a long period of centuries when the gospel was not available to people on this earth, because it had been changed” (Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 423).
   • “In the early centuries of the Christian era, the apostasy came not through persecution, but by relinquishment of faith caused by the superimposing of a man-made structure upon and over the divine program. Many men with no pretense nor claim to revelation, speaking without divine authority or revelation, depending only upon their own brilliant minds, but representing as they claim the congregations of the Christians and in long conference and erudite councils, sought the creation process to make a God which all could accept.
     
     “The brilliant minds with their philosophies, knowing much about the Christian traditions and the pagan philosophies, would combine all elements to please everybody. They replaced the simple ways and program of the Christ with spectacular rituals, colorful display, impressive pageantry, and limitless pomposity, and called it Christianity. They had replaced the glorious, divine plan of exaltation of Christ with an elaborate, colorful, man-made system. They seemed to have little idea of totally dethroning the Christ, nor terminating the life of God, as in our own day, but they put together an incomprehensible God idea” (Kimball, Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 425).

I believe the time in the 'wilderness' ended with the Protestant Reformation. Exact dates are unnecessary. The Dragon that persecuted the woman was the (flood of) armies of the Papacy. Also, the birth of Christian religious freedom coincided with the discovery of the new world. Interesting too that the lands beyond the early settlements were called "The Wilderness" (as was the Sinai desert). So, the 'wilderness' wasn't just a metaphor for God's protection, it was a real place.

 

[Woodznutz]

So, going back to my original post why do you think that God the Father rejected the plan of Lucifer?

Lucifer's plan was co-authority with God. Kinda like what Michelle said to Barak, "Whatchu mean you president? WE president!"

Maybe there's another lesson there.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Fantastical Stories To Prod By Goad For Public Perceptions "

* Gnostic Good Versus Evil Fables Of Celestial Deities *

In the Bible according to the book of Revelation, before we came to this earth, there was a war in heaven between Lucifer and his followers and God, Jesus, and Michael and those who followed after them.

The mythology of lucifer , as light giver being cast down from high heavens , is a knock off from a fable of prometheus , a deity whom without permission brought fire to hue mammon , and whom was punished for deceiving zeus on behalf of hue mammon , after zeus ruled that hue mammon would no longer be allowed to fraternize and dine among the goads on mount olympus and would have to fend for themselves on earth .

The mythology of lucifer as being cast down from high heavens is an allusion to the planet venus being an inferior planet with respect to the orbit of earth , a literal under world of hell fire , which was contrived by comparing the relative apparent brightness from earth , between planet venus and planet jupiter , that gave rise to a fable about arrogance of lucifer challenging zeus and the consequences .

Contemporary scientists are warning that greenhouse gasses could cause runaway global warning , which is supposed to have happened to planet venus , so perhaps scientists should be proselytizing that hue mammon is following lucifer to a destination where earth is consumed by eternal flames .

 

[Woodznutz]

" Fantastical Stories To Prod By Goad For Public Perceptions "

* Gnostic Good Versus Evil Fables Of Celestial Deities *

The mythology of lucifer , as light giver being cast down from high heavens , is a knock off from a fable of prometheus , a deity whom without permission brought fire to hue mammon , and whom was punished for deceiving zeus on behalf of hue mammon , after zeus ruled that hue mammon would no longer be allowed to fraternize and dine among the goads on mount olympus and would have to fend for themselves on earth .

The mythology of lucifer as being cast down from high heavens is an allusion to the planet venus being an inferior planet with respect to the orbit of earth , a literal under world of hell fire , which was contrived by comparing the relative apparent brightness from earth , between planet venus and planet jupiter , that gave rise to a fable about arrogance of lucifer challenging zeus the consequences .

Contemporary scientists are warning that greenhouse gasses could cause runaway global warning , which is supposed to have happened to planet venus , so perhaps scientists should be proselytizing that hue mammon is following lucifer to a destination where earth is consumed by eternal flames .

It is those very similarities that should be taken seriously.

 

[onefour1]

Lucifer's plan was co-authority with God. Kinda like what Michelle said to Barak, "Whatchu mean you president? WE president!"

Maybe there's another lesson there.

Thanks for responding to my question! You are right that Lucifer sought high praise and authority. What he either didn't understand or was not willing to accept is the idea that in order for mankind to truly progress they needed free agency to choose. God knows that for mankind to truly become good beings in and of themselves, they need to have freedom to choose good over evil of their own free will and choice. If they choose good over evil of their own free will and choice, then it is them choosing to be good and they are being good of their own will. I think Lucifer wanted the glory of being the Savior of the world but thought that he could save us all by doing away with our free agency and forcing us all to be good. Or maybe also he didn't want to go through an atoning sacrifice but through force he wouldn't have to atone for our sins. God our Father knew that mankind would not progress to be truly good beings in and of themselves without free will. This is why God our Father rejected Lucifers plan. Lucifer thought his plan of coercion was better than God's plan of free will. So when his plan was rejected, he came out in open rebellion against the Father and all those who sided with God. Because of his open defiance of God, he was cast out of heaven into the earth and all his followers with him. I think it is critical for us to understand the extreme importance of free will and choosing good over evil of our own free choice and desire. Only in this way do we truly become more like God and our Savior Jesus Christ. We don't progress by becoming a forced puppet of Lucifer. We simply become slaves.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Dichotomy Of Good Versus Evil Confrontation Bound For Holly Would "

* Dungeons And Dragons Role Play With Dramatic Paranoia For Fun *

Thanks for responding to my question! You are right that Lucifer sought high praise and authority. What he either didn't understand or was not willing to accept is the idea that in order for mankind to truly progress they needed free agency to choose. God knows that for mankind to truly become good beings in and of themselves, they need to have freedom to choose good over evil of their own free will and choice. If they choose good over evil of their own free will and choice, then it is them choosing to be good and they are being good of their own will. I think Lucifer wanted the glory of being the Savior of the world but thought that he could save us all by doing away with our free agency and forcing us all to be good. Or maybe also he didn't want to go through an atoning sacrifice but through force he wouldn't have to atone for our sins. God our Father knew that mankind would not progress to be truly good beings in and of themselves without free will. This is why God our Father rejected Lucifers plan. Lucifer thought his plan of coercion was better than God's plan of free will. So when his plan was rejected, he came out in open rebellion against the Father and all those who sided with God. Because of his open defiance of God, he was cast out of heaven into the earth and all his followers with him. I think it is critical for us to understand the extreme importance of free will and choosing good over evil of our own free choice and desire.

The propensity of sophisticates to devise propensities for goading others in belief and behavior through fantastical accounts is historic .

Communicating mythologies and apologues is interesting and even useful , while informed consent is expected among adults , where adolescence implies limited in capacity to enter into all social civil agreements with informed consent .

When hue refers to father , this presumption is syncretism with greek goads , zeus as king father of goads and celestial deity for planet jupiter , and lucifer an inferior planet and celestial deity for planet venus .

A fate is a fatalism and a determinate created after an option is chosen , and to change ones destiny an individual need only choose an option of fate different from their current destiny .

The literal meaning of an after life is genetic continuance , as the success criteria of natural order is survival , whereby another , both figuratively and literally as oneself may , through a necessary sophisticated state , have an opportunity to experience sentience , sapience and introspection afforded as life .

An subjective altruism of an ego is a belief that its introspection should exist in perpetuity , while empirical evidence suggests that not every instance of an ego is required to satisfy a subjective altruism of an ego .

* Entertaining Considerations When Science Was Founded In Religion *

This greek personification of celestial bodies and the implications for . Physical cosmology - Wikipedia . and . Cosmogony - Wikipedia are interesting and possibly useful .

In Greek mythology, there's a prophecy that if Zeus had a son with Metis, that son would overthrow him, mirroring how Zeus himself overthrew his father, Cronus. To prevent this, Zeus swallowed Metis whole when she was pregnant, and later she gave birth to Athena from Zeus's head. This averted the prophecy, but the "cycle of patricide" (son killing father) is a recurring theme in Greek myths.

Metis (/ˈmiːtɪs/; Ancient Greek: Μῆτις, romanized: Mêtis; Modern Greek: Μήτις, meaning 'Wisdom', 'Skill', or 'Craft'), in ancient Greek religion and mythology, was the pre-Olympian goddess of wisdom, counsel and deep thought, and a member of the Oceanids.[1] She is notable for being the advisor and first wife of Zeus, the king of the gods. She first helped him to free his siblings from their father Cronus' stomach and later helped their daughter Athena to escape from the forehead of Zeus, who swallowed both mother and child after it was foretold that she would bear a son mighter than his father.

* Victims Might Be Subconsciously Out For Revenge *

Only in this way do we truly become more like God and our Savior Jesus Christ. We don't progress by becoming a forced puppet of Lucifer. We simply become slaves.

The foundational premises of cry is ti an begins with greek saul whom is credited with introducing antinomianism into greek culture through his intimations on circumcision .

. Are Circumcisions Performed Before An Age Of Consent An Act Of Illegitimate Aggression ? .

. Zone1 - Eponymous Nomian Patriarch Genetic Religions Of Torahnism And Qurayshism : Isaac Versus Ishmael Sacrifice Circumcision Option .

. Antinomianism - Wikipedia .


* Meet Us Protecting More Valid Normative Values From Populism For Democracy As Tyranny By Collective Majority *

A tenet of perspectivism is that all perspectives are interdependent on other perspectives , the expected values of which become social norms .

. Eigenvalues and eigenvectors - Wikipedia .
If the entries of the matrix A are all real numbers, then the coefficients of the characteristic polynomial will also be real numbers, but the eigenvalues may still have nonzero imaginary parts. The entries of the corresponding eigenvectors therefore may also have nonzero imaginary parts. Similarly, the eigenvalues may be irrational numbers even if all the entries of A are rational numbers or even if they are all integers. However, if the entries of A are all algebraic numbers, which include the rationals, the eigenvalues must also be algebraic numbers.

. Norm (mathematics) - Wikipedia .

 

[Woodznutz]

Thanks for responding to my question! You are right that Lucifer sought high praise and authority. What he either didn't understand or was not willing to accept is the idea that in order for mankind to truly progress they needed free agency to choose. God knows that for mankind to truly become good beings in and of themselves, they need to have freedom to choose good over evil of their own free will and choice. If they choose good over evil of their own free will and choice, then it is them choosing to be good and they are being good of their own will. I think Lucifer wanted the glory of being the Savior of the world but thought that he could save us all by doing away with our free agency and forcing us all to be good. Or maybe also he didn't want to go through an atoning sacrifice but through force he wouldn't have to atone for our sins. God our Father knew that mankind would not progress to be truly good beings in and of themselves without free will. This is why God our Father rejected Lucifers plan. Lucifer thought his plan of coercion was better than God's plan of free will. So when his plan was rejected, he came out in open rebellion against the Father and all those who sided with God. Because of his open defiance of God, he was cast out of heaven into the earth and all his followers with him. I think it is critical for us to understand the extreme importance of free will and choosing good over evil of our own free choice and desire. Only in this way do we truly become more like God and our Savior Jesus Christ. We don't progress by becoming a forced puppet of Lucifer. We simply become slaves.

Without the intervention of God our character will continue to decline to the point of self-destruction. Many develop good character, but most don't, not enough to save us from ourselves.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Solar Planetary Deities See King Ultimate Abstractions For Nomian Precedence "

* Three Tens Thirty Crest Scent *

Without the intervention of God our character will continue to decline to the point of self-destruction. Many develop good character, but most don't, not enough to save us from ourselves.

The celestial deity for planet moon of earth is sin , or nanna , so saving our selves from our selves includes sustenance along with degradation through gravity metric churning from the moon ; sew , which allegories could one infer as science to fantastically personify a lunar deity ?

A strong anthropic principle is a logical tautology relating that hue mammon exists because hue mammon is able to confirm an assertion that hue mammon exists ; for were it that hue mammon did not exist to confirm an assertion that hue mammon exists , then hue mammon would not exist .

Tautology (logic) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In mathematical logic, a tautology (from Ancient Greek: ταυτολογία) is a formula that is true regardless of the interpretation of its component terms, with only the logical constants having a fixed meaning. For example, a formula that states, "the ball is green or the ball is not green," is always true, regardless of what a ball is and regardless of its colour. Tautology is usually, though not always, used to refer to valid formulas of propositional logic.

 

[Woodznutz]

" Solar Planetary Deities See King Ultimate Abstractions For Nomian Precedence "

* Three Tens Thirty Crest Scent *

The celestial deity for planet moon of earth is sin , or nanna , so saving our selves from our selves includes sustenance along with degradation through gravity metric churning from the moon ; sew , which allegories could one infer as science to fantastically personify a lunar deity ?

A strong anthropic principle is a logical tautology relating that hue mammon exists because hue mammon is able to confirm an assertion that hue mammon exists ; for were it that hue mammon did not exist to confirm an assertion that hue mammon exists , then hue mammon would not exist .

Tautology (logic) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In mathematical logic, a tautology (from Ancient Greek: ταυτολογία) is a formula that is true regardless of the interpretation of its component terms, with only the logical constants having a fixed meaning. For example, a formula that states, "the ball is green or the ball is not green," is always true, regardless of what a ball is and regardless of its colour. Tautology is usually, though not always, used to refer to valid formulas of propositional logic.

" Solar Planetary Deities See King Ultimate Abstractions For Nomian Precedence "

* Three Tens Thirty Crest Scent *

The celestial deity for planet moon of earth is sin , or nanna , so saving our selves from our selves includes sustenance along with degradation through gravity metric churning from the moon ; sew , which allegories could one infer as science to fantastically personify a lunar deity ?

A strong anthropic principle is a logical tautology relating that hue mammon exists because hue mammon is able to confirm an assertion that hue mammon exists ; for were it that hue mammon did not exist to confirm an assertion that hue mammon exists , then hue mammon would not exist .

Tautology (logic) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In mathematical logic, a tautology (from Ancient Greek: ταυτολογία) is a formula that is true regardless of the interpretation of its component terms, with only the logical constants having a fixed meaning. For example, a formula that states, "the ball is green or the ball is not green," is always true, regardless of what a ball is and regardless of its colour. Tautology is usually, though not always, used to refer to valid formulas of propositional logic.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Innuendo Of Idiom Pivoting In Reflection "

* Inn Plane Angle Lash Know Homonyms Knot Complicated *

The motif matter of thematic reiteration is unadulterated , as an adult version of reality for informed consent , which warns not to confuse the literal meaning of an after life , which is genetic continuance , with the metaphorical means by which to achieve a literal after life , where metaphorical means alludes to normative values , to edits and to tenets for beliefs in a creed as a religion .

 

[Woodznutz]

" Innuendo Of Idiom Pivoting In Reflection "

* Inn Plane Angle Lash Know Homonyms Knot Complicated *

The motif matter of thematic reiteration is unadulterated , as an adult version of reality for informed consent , which warns not to confuse the literal meaning of an after life , which is genetic continuance , with the metaphorical means by which to achieve a literal after life , where metaphorical means alludes to normative values , to edits and to tenets for beliefs in a creed as a religion .

In English, please.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

In these verses we learn that Lucifer, whose name was changed to Satan, sought to be the Savior of the world and had his own ideas on how I mankind should be saved. He claimed that he could save all mankind that not one soul would be lost. We also learn that part of Lucifer's plan

None of this I quoted is biblical.

 

[onefour1]

None of this I quoted is biblical.

Sorry I must have missed your quote!

 

[BackAgain]

Did Lucifer “fall?”

Or did he jump?

Or was he pushed?

 

[onefour1]

Did Lucifer “fall?”

Or did he jump?

Or was he pushed?

He basically came out in open rebellion against God the Father, Jesus Christ and all who followed them. He even got 1/3 of the hosts of heaven to take his side and rebel against God. By doing this, he was cast out of heaven by the power of the God.

 

[Z99]

Here is a question for all of you Bibleophiliacs---

What if Lucifer had never fallen from Grace---

Would there still be a Hell? And why?

I believe that the "Lake of Fire" (Hell) was made for the purpose of correction, refinement, and restoration. In other words, all who were ever created, including Satan and demons will be purified through and by Christ, who is the Savior of this world.

I believe that God transformed Lucifer into the role of Satan in order to be the tempter of humanity. It was God's will that Lucifer "fell". It is all a part of God's plan for the spiritual development of not just people but also angels.