Zone1 Mary's sinlessness

[ninja007]

Ridiculous argument. No one ever claimed killing a sinless person would make that person the messiah. Innocent babies are killed all the time. They never sinned on their own.

i guess you missed this verse?

Romans 3:23
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King James Version
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23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;​

 

[ninja007]

Ridiculous argument. No one ever claimed killing a sinless person would make that person the messiah. Innocent babies are killed all the time. They never sinned on their own.

Rather than teach that Mary was sinless, the Bible gives evidence that she was a normal person with a normal person’s need of salvation. In Mary’s praise-filled, humble prayer in Luke 1, she says, “My spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (verse 47). If she were sinless, she would not have needed a “Savior.” Mary receives a gentle rebuke from Jesus in John 2:4, which hardly seems fitting if she were sinless.

 

[ninja007]

But you said "ALL" have sinned. At least we now know you allow that there are exceptions.

But you said "ALL" have sinned. At least we now know you allow that there are exceptions.

Jesus is God. God cannot sin, no exceptions.

 

[buttercup]

Pretty sure that's covered under "......all have sinned and come short....."

/ thread.

 

[buttercup]

As I've posted, she could be a wonderful good person and still commit sins. I don't mean the big sins either. a righteous person still commits sins.

Exactly. Maybe when Catholics hear the word "sinner" they think of a totally lawless or evil person (which would explain why someone in post #11 was so offended by people saying Mary is sinner) but that's an extreme view of it. Technically, a person can commit one sin in their whole life and still be a sinner. Sin means missing the mark. As you said, even a wonderful person still occasionally misses the mark.

 

[Mashmont]

Mary never sinned.

 

[rstrats]

Mary never sinned.

Scripture please?

 

[Mashmont]

Scripture please?

God didn’t stop reaching 2000 years ago. That’s why we have Jesus’ Church.

 

[rstrats]

God didn’t stop reaching 2000 years ago. That’s why we have Jesus’ Church.

OK, just so it's understood that scripture is silent about it.

 

[Manonthestreet]

OK, just so it's understood that scripture is silent about it.

All have sinned......read the book

 

[rstrats]

All have sinned......read the book

Why did you quote my comment instead of Mashmont's?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Scripture is not silent about it

 

[Care4all]

All have sinned......read the book

She was FULL of Grace, Grace is God.... God's spirit, God's will, God's protections, therefore...she was sinless, through God's grace... is how the Catholics view it....in simplistic terms....

Jesus was not yet born, and had not died for our sins yet....but she was still FULL, entirely, of God's grace....there is no sin, when you are FULL of God's grace....because He takes up, every inch of it.

What Does It Mean to be Full of Grace?

What is GRACE? Mary’s Immaculate Conception made her free from the guilt of Eve by God's grace because of what Jesus would do on the cross.

wordbytes.org

 

[Care4all]

To Catholics the immaculate conception, was God preparing Mary, and her birth, as the future vessel that would deliver, God manifested as man, Jesus Christ.

 

[rstrats]

Scripture is not silent about it

Where does scripture say that Mary was without sin?

 

[theHawk]

OK, just so it's understood that scripture is silent about it.

It’s not silent about it. When an angel says you are “full of grace”, that means something.

Early church writers agreed that Mary was the “new Eve”, except she didn’t fall into sin like Eve. She defeated the devil. That is why even today the devil loathes fears Mary.

 

[theHawk]

Rather than teach that Mary was sinless, the Bible gives evidence that she was a normal person with a normal person’s need of salvation. In Mary’s praise-filled, humble prayer in Luke 1, she says, “My spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (verse 47). If she were sinless, she would not have needed a “Savior.” Mary receives a gentle rebuke from Jesus in John 2:4, which hardly seems fitting if she were sinless.

Ridiculous. Being humble and acknowledging the savior isn’t a sin.

Telling Jesus they were out of wine at the wedding wasn’t a sin. That was the moment Jesus was going to perform his first public miracle, and he addressed her as “woman” to make the connection with the Genesis prophecy, which actually reaffirms that she is the new Eve.

 

[Manonthestreet]

She was FULL of Grace, Grace is God.... God's spirit, God's will, God's protections, therefore...she was sinless, through God's grace... is how the Catholics view it....in simplistic terms....

Jesus was not yet born, and had not died for our sins yet....but she was still FULL, entirely, of God's grace....there is no sin, when you are FULL of God's grace....because He takes up, every inch of it.

What Does It Mean to be Full of Grace?

What is GRACE? Mary’s Immaculate Conception made her free from the guilt of Eve by God's grace because of what Jesus would do on the cross.

wordbytes.org

People today can be full of grace

 

[theHawk]

i guess you missed this verse?

Romans 3:23​

​

​

King James Version​

​

​

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;​

The Letter to the Romans is about there being no distinction between gentiles and Jews, that they are all sinners in general.

This does not mean there aren’t exceptions. In the same book, Romans 9:11 Paul says Jacob and Esau commited no sin yet while in the womb. So clearly unborn children are without personal sin. Yet unborn still need a savior to get into heaven.

Also, wouldn’t “all” include Jesus as well? After all, he was fully human just as he was fully divine. With your logic, Jesus would be a sinner too.

 

[Care4all]

People today can be full of grace

Got an example?