Climate what? Americans score a "D" in science!!!

[flacaltenn]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

I got all of them right.. so I am in the 6% who are well versed in science. A Republican and a Conservative to boot!

Oh my --- I've got to agree with 3goofs.. Kinda..
Most of the public has been fed nothing but hyperventilating fear and hysteria on Global Warming.. Therefore they should NOT be trusted. But that's the game really anyway. Because they WANT more 3Goofs and CrickHam and GoldiRocks that can be easily convinced that the science actually SUPPORTS the hysteria.

But 2 or 3 or 10 good open debates on the topic and firing a bunch of politically appointed scientists that hide in high govt offices would fix a lot of that... There's only ever been 2 or 3 BALANCED and OPEN debates on the topic. That right thar tells you a bunch don't it?? Media can't even handle the bacon and eggs debate properly. Because "journalists" are just college kids that were too lazy to learn anything other than form and style..

Except scientists also agree on AGW. Read www.ipcc.ch for more info.

Not according to von Storch 2009 ---- LOTS of stuff they disagree on. Including whether climate science is a mature science. You think the IPCC hires scientists without bias? and that this tiny sliver of the community is a representative sample? Or ya just believe since it's the UN -- everything they say is world opinion...

Love how you reference stuff in your head. WTF is von storch? Your new go-to blog?

Like I said, virtually every scientific organization in the world agrees with the general tenets of the IPCC.

Interesting.. All our warmers indeed DO SUFFER from CRS syndrome. Was just a couple days you were hawking the 97% consensus bullshit and I pulled out some ACTUAL polls of climate scientists that showed no resemblance to a consensus of any type. ONE OF THEM --- which I riffed on for about 10 posts was von Storch 2009 --- because CrickHam (((who has terminal CRS, at least when it comes to his favorite sport here in enviro))) --- pulled it out to bolster the Consensus garbage.. Ring any bells?

von Storch 2009 is the way us scientists avoid CRS.. Hey governor --- I work very hard to communicate with you. Kinda the purpose of a message board.. Least you could do is get off Mt Stupid and try to keep up...

What -- is all this NEW to you???

No reference. Again. As far as I know, Von Storch is in your head. Or on a blog, which is marginally different.

Confirmed CRS -- you were in the discussion.

Climate change: 2015 will be the hottest year on record 'by a mile', experts say | Page 26 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Weren't paying attention? Couldn't bare to see consensus claim ripped to shreds? Or just don't give a fuck?
Maybe I missed a possibility..... Help me out here.. How could you forget all those poll responses that showed a whole LOT of disagreement on many areas of climate science?

CRS might be finally rubbing off on me... It was actually from 2008...

 

[IsaacNewton]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

Rest assured, every single human being on Earth is going to get intimately aquainted with Global Warming in the next five years. We've already passed the tipping point, even if all man-made carbon being forced into the atmosphere right now were stopped, it would take hundreds of years for the levels of CO2 to drop.

Its already too late and soon enough human life is going to start changing drastically, whether people know it or not at the moment.

The 6th mass extinction event has already started and will only continue to accelerate.

OOOOHH OOOH... Please IsaacNewtron --- come tell the newbie 3Goofs ALL ABOUT the tipping point. He's such an expert on Global Warming history and theory --- but I have a sense his soul is not pure and deserving..

Don't leave out all that permafrost feedback and clouds doing whatever clouds do and how man can't stop it anymore because it's powered by runaway feedbacks.. I trust you can take it from here. When the 2 of you get your story straight about what GW theory actually says --- PM me.. I'll be chainsawing out on the back 40 -- but I'll take a tablet with me to check in..

Newton meet newbie.. Newbie meet Newton..

You are a message board bugwit, no need to waste time with you.

Carry on Stalone.

 

[skookerasbil]

Funny how the alarmist AGW folks in here constantly refer to "real scientists" and "the science says".........but clearly, most Americans couldn't give a rats ass.

Why?

Because the folks have tuned out science in America.........its not science anymore. Its pseudo-science with a lot of makey-uppey stuff and theory put up as "science". When every other week, you see scientific data being rigged, you tune it out

 

[Correll]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

Rest assured, every single human being on Earth is going to get intimately aquainted with Global Warming in the next five years. We've already passed the tipping point, even if all man-made carbon being forced into the atmosphere right now were stopped, it would take hundreds of years for the levels of CO2 to drop.

Its already too late and soon enough human life is going to start changing drastically, whether people know it or not at the moment.

The 6th mass extinction event has already started and will only continue to accelerate.

Tell me again how the GOP is the party of panic mongers...

 

[Billy_Bob]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

I got all of them right.. so I am in the 6% who are well versed in science. A Republican and a Conservative to boot!

Yet still clueless.

Congratulations on passing a middle school level test.

You should be proud.

Wow, a clueless moron who missed them all is spouting off again. you must be a low information Obama voter who believes every lie they tell you to believe.

 

[skookerasbil]

Billy.....lets not alienate this goofball...........always nice to have another AGW k00k to beat up on in here. This one might even make Mamooth look sane if you can believe that.

You can always spot the low information ones 5,000 miles away.........the deep matrix ones like Tyrell.

 

[threegoofs]

Billy.....lets not alienate this goofball...........always nice to have another AGW k00k to beat up on in here. This one might even make Mamooth look sane if you can believe that.

You can always spot the low information ones 5,000 miles away.........the deep matrix ones like Tyrell.

You mean the ones who spout bullshit and never post a reference?

That would be...you, Mr. No Information.

 

[Old Rocks]

This is truly sickening Our lives are so much better because of science...The human mind always seem to move back to simple idiocy and against our own best interest.

Sad.

How many billions of people are alive today because of the cures of the 18th, 19th and 20th century?
People are living higher quality lives that are much longer.
People can discuss things on the other side of the world.
The internet has all the knowledge to make one think this is impossible...Damn.

Time to get the govt OUT of the way so that science, technology, math can be revived by newer methods of education . Methods that are more likely to reach the MAJORITY of kids in schools. And the expectations have to be set higher. All the govt does is to set the FLOOR for the expectations and learning..

I've got enough optimism that I believe I could kidnap several hundred young Burger flippers and mall saleskids --- and turn them into chemical engineers. Or physicists. Or at least citizens that have a PRAYER of defending themselves against tech/science propaganda and think for themselves WITHOUT praying to authority...

OK, I go to school with those kids. They are not fucking dummies. Yes, they show up tired, and sometimes nod off in class. No reason for that, just because they are working two jobs and trying to take two thirds load. You see, in Portland, Oregon, PCC's classes are 100+ a credit, and PSU's are twice that. And then there are books. $200 to $300 a whack. And there are only so many loans and scholarships to go around. Then there is the little matter of paying off the loans, that are often mortgage sized by the time school is finished.

The classes I have taken are all science and math. So I am talking about the people that we need and have jobs for. But between high school and that job is the cost of college.

Now you want to keep government out of education, Flacaltenn, so what is your solution to getting these kids in school, and keeping them there? How about the problem of a roof over their heads, and three square a day? And you are going to do that without government?

Give us a rational plan,.

 

[Old Rocks]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

You realize that you are destroying your own argument right?

Americans are terrible at science. And Americans could care less about AGW.

You somehow think that this shows that the public should be trusted on the importance of climate change?

I think you get both a 'D' in science and an 'F' in logic.

Oh my --- I've got to agree with 3goofs.. Kinda..
Most of the public has been fed nothing but hyperventilating fear and hysteria on Global Warming.. Therefore they should NOT be trusted. But that's the game really anyway. Because they WANT more 3Goofs and CrickHam and GoldiRocks that can be easily convinced that the science actually SUPPORTS the hysteria.

But 2 or 3 or 10 good open debates on the topic and firing a bunch of politically appointed scientists that hide in high govt offices would fix a lot of that... There's only ever been 2 or 3 BALANCED and OPEN debates on the topic. That right thar tells you a bunch don't it?? Media can't even handle the bacon and eggs debate properly. Because "journalists" are just college kids that were too lazy to learn anything other than form and style..

Oh yes, fire a bunch of scientists and replace them with undegreed ex-TV weathermen and fake British Lords. Or a senile whore like Singer, and a yet to be senile whore like Lindzen.

Flacaltenn, you are, in the end, no differant than Billy Boy and Crusader Frank. You just have the sense not to lie about the obvious, such as CO2 being a GHG. Westwall does not even have that.

 

[Old Rocks]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

You realize that you are destroying your own argument right?

Americans are terrible at science. And Americans could care less about AGW.

You somehow think that this shows that the public should be trusted on the importance of climate change?

I think you get both a 'D' in science and an 'F' in logic.

Oh my --- I've got to agree with 3goofs.. Kinda..
Most of the public has been fed nothing but hyperventilating fear and hysteria on Global Warming.. Therefore they should NOT be trusted. But that's the game really anyway. Because they WANT more 3Goofs and CrickHam and GoldiRocks that can be easily convinced that the science actually SUPPORTS the hysteria.

But 2 or 3 or 10 good open debates on the topic and firing a bunch of politically appointed scientists that hide in high govt offices would fix a lot of that... There's only ever been 2 or 3 BALANCED and OPEN debates on the topic. That right thar tells you a bunch don't it?? Media can't even handle the bacon and eggs debate properly. Because "journalists" are just college kids that were too lazy to learn anything other than form and style..

Except scientists also agree on AGW. Read www.ipcc.ch for more info.

Not according to von Storch 2009 ---- LOTS of stuff they disagree on. Including whether climate science is a mature science. You think the IPCC hires scientists without bias? and that this tiny sliver of the community is a representative sample? Or ya just believe since it's the UN -- everything they say is world opinion...

Flacaltenn, there it is in black and white. It is not science unless it is politically correct. If our government supports it, or agrees to it, it must be wrong. And the fruitloops on the radical right wing are always correct. That is your basis for judging science.

 

[Old Rocks]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

I almost missed the astronomy/astrology question because I read the question hurriedly and I changed my incorrect answer to the correct one only because I rechecked before hitting the submit button. So I did get it right. But had I failed to correct my wrong answer, I still would have known the correct answer. I enjoy the Pew quizzes for fun, but I'm not sure they choose the right 12 questions for their quizzes to reflect a basic general knowledge in a particular field of study.

I also am not so convinced that the American people don't care about climate change or science in general--I think people become jaded and indifferent when such things are used for personal power and profit. People are no longer allowed to distinguish between science and propaganda/poltical motivation. No distinction is made between education and indoctrination. And when it becomes increasingly apparent that so many politicians and even academics and so-called 'scientists' are willing to manipulate or skew data to fit a particular ideological perspective, pretty soon most people don't bother to listen to any of it. And because there is so little emphasis on reading and reading comprehension and critical thinking these days, I think people may appear to know a lot less than they actually do.

But alas it is also true that there are also a lot of clueless empty headed morons out there too. And they vote.

If you cannot distinguish between science and politics, then you are most likely a 'Conservative'. I note that most of the people arguing that AGW is real and occurring post articles from peer reviewed journals written by scientists in the field that is being discussed. Most of the 'Conservatives' here post articles from WUWT and a fake British Lord. And most 'Conservatives' state that scientists cannot be trusted to do science.

 

[Old Rocks]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

I got all of them right.. so I am in the 6% who are well versed in science. A Republican and a Conservative to boot!

Billy Boy, you have lied about almost everything you have posted on. I really don't believe you.

 

[Old Rocks]

You realize that you are destroying your own argument right?

Americans are terrible at science. And Americans could care less about AGW.

You somehow think that this shows that the public should be trusted on the importance of climate change?

I think you get both a 'D' in science and an 'F' in logic.

Oh my --- I've got to agree with 3goofs.. Kinda..
Most of the public has been fed nothing but hyperventilating fear and hysteria on Global Warming.. Therefore they should NOT be trusted. But that's the game really anyway. Because they WANT more 3Goofs and CrickHam and GoldiRocks that can be easily convinced that the science actually SUPPORTS the hysteria.

But 2 or 3 or 10 good open debates on the topic and firing a bunch of politically appointed scientists that hide in high govt offices would fix a lot of that... There's only ever been 2 or 3 BALANCED and OPEN debates on the topic. That right thar tells you a bunch don't it?? Media can't even handle the bacon and eggs debate properly. Because "journalists" are just college kids that were too lazy to learn anything other than form and style..

Except scientists also agree on AGW. Read www.ipcc.ch for more info.

Not according to von Storch 2009 ---- LOTS of stuff they disagree on. Including whether climate science is a mature science. You think the IPCC hires scientists without bias? and that this tiny sliver of the community is a representative sample? Or ya just believe since it's the UN -- everything they say is world opinion...

Love how you reference stuff in your head. WTF is von storch? Your new go-to blog?

Like I said, virtually every scientific organization in the world agrees with the general tenets of the IPCC.

Interesting.. All our warmers indeed DO SUFFER from CRS syndrome. Was just a couple days you were hawking the 97% consensus bullshit and I pulled out some ACTUAL polls of climate scientists that showed no resemblance to a consensus of any type. ONE OF THEM --- which I riffed on for about 10 posts was von Storch 2009 --- because CrickHam (((who has terminal CRS, at least when it comes to his favorite sport here in enviro))) --- pulled it out to bolster the Consensus garbage.. Ring any bells?

von Storch 2009 is the way us scientists avoid CRS.. Hey governor --- I work very hard to communicate with you. Kinda the purpose of a message board.. Least you could do is get off Mt Stupid and try to keep up...

What -- is all this NEW to you???

Hans von Storch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opinion on global warming[edit]
He said that global warming exists:

"Based on the scientific evidence, I am convinced that we are facing anthropogenic climate change brought about by the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."[2]
He is also known for an article in Der Spiegel he co-wrote with Nico Stehr, which states that:

"Scientific research faces a crisis because its public figures are overselling the issues to gain attention in a hotly contested market for newsworthy information."[3]
"The alarmists think that climate change is something extremely dangerous, extremely bad and that overselling a little bit, if it serves a good purpose, is not that bad."[4]
In December 2009, he expressed concern about the credibility of science and criticized some publicly visible scientists for simplifying and dramatizing their communications. He pointed to the German Waldsterben (Forest dieback) hype of the 1980s:[5]

Research about the forest die back in Germany may serve as an example at the other end of the spectrum. The science of forest damages was in the 1980s heavily politicized, and used as support for a specific preconceived "good" policy of environmental protection. The resulting overselling and dramatization broke down in the 1990s, and news about adverse developments in German forests is now a hard sell in Germany. An observer wrote in 2004: "The damage for the scientists is enormous. Nobody believes them any longer." Of course, the damage was not only limited to the forest researchers, but also to other environmental scientists and politicians as well.
In January 2011, Storch was counted among the 100 most influential Germans by the Focus magazine for being a "climate realist".[6]

On 20 June 2013 Storch stated "So far, no one has been able to provide a compelling answer to why climate change seems to be taking a break. We're facing a puzzle. Recent CO2 emissions have actually risen even more steeply than we feared. As a result, according to most climate models, we should have seen temperatures rise by around 0.25 degrees Celsius (0.45 degrees Fahrenheit) over the past 10 years. That hasn't happened. In fact, the increase over the last 15 years was just 0.06 degrees Celsius (0.11 degrees Fahrenheit) -- a value very close to zero. This is a serious scientific problem that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will have to confront when it presents its next Assessment Report late next year."[7]

Von Storch is in agreement that we are changing the climate. He is just on the end of the spectrum that states that that is not that bad of a deal. On the other end are the scientists of the AMEG;

Arctic Methane Emergency Group (AMEG)

In between are peope like myself that see the continuing warming drying out our forests with increasingly frequent droughts, warmer winters creating more problems with summer irrigation, and increasingly strong precipitation events costing us more in infrastructure costs. And the swings in natural variability being warmer on the highs, and warmer on the lows. Wilder and wider swings in the weather with an overall warming. Been making that predication for 20 years, that is what is happening, and will continue to happen.

 

[Old Rocks]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

Rest assured, every single human being on Earth is going to get intimately aquainted with Global Warming in the next five years. We've already passed the tipping point, even if all man-made carbon being forced into the atmosphere right now were stopped, it would take hundreds of years for the levels of CO2 to drop.

Its already too late and soon enough human life is going to start changing drastically, whether people know it or not at the moment.

The 6th mass extinction event has already started and will only continue to accelerate.

OOOOHH OOOH... Please IsaacNewtron --- come tell the newbie 3Goofs ALL ABOUT the tipping point. He's such an expert on Global Warming history and theory --- but I have a sense his soul is not pure and deserving..

Don't leave out all that permafrost feedback and clouds doing whatever clouds do and how man can't stop it anymore because it's powered by runaway feedbacks.. I trust you can take it from here. When the 2 of you get your story straight about what GW theory actually says --- PM me.. I'll be chainsawing out on the back 40 -- but I'll take a tablet with me to check in..

Newton meet newbie.. Newbie meet Newton..

Ah yes. Ignore that the Northeast Passage has been open for several weeks, and the Northwest Passage is presently open enough for a standard container ship.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/NEWIMAGES/arctic.seaice.color.000.png


30-day animation

 

[threegoofs]

Oh my --- I've got to agree with 3goofs.. Kinda..
Most of the public has been fed nothing but hyperventilating fear and hysteria on Global Warming.. Therefore they should NOT be trusted. But that's the game really anyway. Because they WANT more 3Goofs and CrickHam and GoldiRocks that can be easily convinced that the science actually SUPPORTS the hysteria.

But 2 or 3 or 10 good open debates on the topic and firing a bunch of politically appointed scientists that hide in high govt offices would fix a lot of that... There's only ever been 2 or 3 BALANCED and OPEN debates on the topic. That right thar tells you a bunch don't it?? Media can't even handle the bacon and eggs debate properly. Because "journalists" are just college kids that were too lazy to learn anything other than form and style..

Except scientists also agree on AGW. Read www.ipcc.ch for more info.

Not according to von Storch 2009 ---- LOTS of stuff they disagree on. Including whether climate science is a mature science. You think the IPCC hires scientists without bias? and that this tiny sliver of the community is a representative sample? Or ya just believe since it's the UN -- everything they say is world opinion...

Love how you reference stuff in your head. WTF is von storch? Your new go-to blog?

Like I said, virtually every scientific organization in the world agrees with the general tenets of the IPCC.

Interesting.. All our warmers indeed DO SUFFER from CRS syndrome. Was just a couple days you were hawking the 97% consensus bullshit and I pulled out some ACTUAL polls of climate scientists that showed no resemblance to a consensus of any type. ONE OF THEM --- which I riffed on for about 10 posts was von Storch 2009 --- because CrickHam (((who has terminal CRS, at least when it comes to his favorite sport here in enviro))) --- pulled it out to bolster the Consensus garbage.. Ring any bells?

von Storch 2009 is the way us scientists avoid CRS.. Hey governor --- I work very hard to communicate with you. Kinda the purpose of a message board.. Least you could do is get off Mt Stupid and try to keep up...

What -- is all this NEW to you???

Hans von Storch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opinion on global warming[edit]
He said that global warming exists:

"Based on the scientific evidence, I am convinced that we are facing anthropogenic climate change brought about by the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."[2]
He is also known for an article in Der Spiegel he co-wrote with Nico Stehr, which states that:

"Scientific research faces a crisis because its public figures are overselling the issues to gain attention in a hotly contested market for newsworthy information."[3]
"The alarmists think that climate change is something extremely dangerous, extremely bad and that overselling a little bit, if it serves a good purpose, is not that bad."[4]
In December 2009, he expressed concern about the credibility of science and criticized some publicly visible scientists for simplifying and dramatizing their communications. He pointed to the German Waldsterben (Forest dieback) hype of the 1980s:[5]

Research about the forest die back in Germany may serve as an example at the other end of the spectrum. The science of forest damages was in the 1980s heavily politicized, and used as support for a specific preconceived "good" policy of environmental protection. The resulting overselling and dramatization broke down in the 1990s, and news about adverse developments in German forests is now a hard sell in Germany. An observer wrote in 2004: "The damage for the scientists is enormous. Nobody believes them any longer." Of course, the damage was not only limited to the forest researchers, but also to other environmental scientists and politicians as well.
In January 2011, Storch was counted among the 100 most influential Germans by the Focus magazine for being a "climate realist".[6]

On 20 June 2013 Storch stated "So far, no one has been able to provide a compelling answer to why climate change seems to be taking a break. We're facing a puzzle. Recent CO2 emissions have actually risen even more steeply than we feared. As a result, according to most climate models, we should have seen temperatures rise by around 0.25 degrees Celsius (0.45 degrees Fahrenheit) over the past 10 years. That hasn't happened. In fact, the increase over the last 15 years was just 0.06 degrees Celsius (0.11 degrees Fahrenheit) -- a value very close to zero. This is a serious scientific problem that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will have to confront when it presents its next Assessment Report late next year."[7]

Von Storch is in agreement that we are changing the climate. He is just on the end of the spectrum that states that that is not that bad of a deal. On the other end are the scientists of the AMEG;

Arctic Methane Emergency Group (AMEG)

In between are peope like myself that see the continuing warming drying out our forests with increasingly frequent droughts, warmer winters creating more problems with summer irrigation, and increasingly strong precipitation events costing us more in infrastructure costs. And the swings in natural variability being warmer on the highs, and warmer on the lows. Wilder and wider swings in the weather with an overall warming. Been making that predication for 20 years, that is what is happening, and will continue to happen.

So what you're saying is 'cvon Storch 2009 is a newspaper article.

Of course, you sorta made it sound like a scientific paper, but I'm sure you weren't being dishonest....

 

[flacaltenn]

This is truly sickening Our lives are so much better because of science...The human mind always seem to move back to simple idiocy and against our own best interest.

Sad.

How many billions of people are alive today because of the cures of the 18th, 19th and 20th century?
People are living higher quality lives that are much longer.
People can discuss things on the other side of the world.
The internet has all the knowledge to make one think this is impossible...Damn.

Time to get the govt OUT of the way so that science, technology, math can be revived by newer methods of education . Methods that are more likely to reach the MAJORITY of kids in schools. And the expectations have to be set higher. All the govt does is to set the FLOOR for the expectations and learning..

I've got enough optimism that I believe I could kidnap several hundred young Burger flippers and mall saleskids --- and turn them into chemical engineers. Or physicists. Or at least citizens that have a PRAYER of defending themselves against tech/science propaganda and think for themselves WITHOUT praying to authority...

OK, I go to school with those kids. They are not fucking dummies. Yes, they show up tired, and sometimes nod off in class. No reason for that, just because they are working two jobs and trying to take two thirds load. You see, in Portland, Oregon, PCC's classes are 100+ a credit, and PSU's are twice that. And then there are books. $200 to $300 a whack. And there are only so many loans and scholarships to go around. Then there is the little matter of paying off the loans, that are often mortgage sized by the time school is finished.

The classes I have taken are all science and math. So I am talking about the people that we need and have jobs for. But between high school and that job is the cost of college.

Now you want to keep government out of education, Flacaltenn, so what is your solution to getting these kids in school, and keeping them there? How about the problem of a roof over their heads, and three square a day? And you are going to do that without government?

Give us a rational plan,.

Was a time not so long ago when you could attend Com College nearly free in a lot of states. We should return to that. In fact -- in my great state -- which isn't dealing with bankruptcy or junk credit ratings, the Governor just PROMISED that.. And within a month you feckless CIC flew into town and COPIED that idea.

We also need to get the teachers unions and the Ed academics the hell out of the way and start allowing freedom to design and choose curriculum that isn't all directed at some MINIMUM level of acheivement. And RAISE the academic expectations -- especially in science and math.

If you watch "Waiting for Superman" there are folks that are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Feds on that very idea. And the long of parents WAITING to move their kids in will bring tears to your eyes.

It's a f-in TRIAGE rocks. You save the ones that you can --- and then you do the best for the others. Til there ARE no "others"...

 

[flacaltenn]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

You realize that you are destroying your own argument right?

Americans are terrible at science. And Americans could care less about AGW.

You somehow think that this shows that the public should be trusted on the importance of climate change?

I think you get both a 'D' in science and an 'F' in logic.

Oh my --- I've got to agree with 3goofs.. Kinda..
Most of the public has been fed nothing but hyperventilating fear and hysteria on Global Warming.. Therefore they should NOT be trusted. But that's the game really anyway. Because they WANT more 3Goofs and CrickHam and GoldiRocks that can be easily convinced that the science actually SUPPORTS the hysteria.

But 2 or 3 or 10 good open debates on the topic and firing a bunch of politically appointed scientists that hide in high govt offices would fix a lot of that... There's only ever been 2 or 3 BALANCED and OPEN debates on the topic. That right thar tells you a bunch don't it?? Media can't even handle the bacon and eggs debate properly. Because "journalists" are just college kids that were too lazy to learn anything other than form and style..

Oh yes, fire a bunch of scientists and replace them with undegreed ex-TV weathermen and fake British Lords. Or a senile whore like Singer, and a yet to be senile whore like Lindzen.

Flacaltenn, you are, in the end, no differant than Billy Boy and Crusader Frank. You just have the sense not to lie about the obvious, such as CO2 being a GHG. Westwall does not even have that.

The ONE reasonable debate I watched ----

Richard S. Lindzen, professor of meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology; Philip Stott, emeritus professor of bio-geography at the University of London; and the late author Michael Crichton, a Harvard-trained medical doctor who had been a postdoctoral fellow at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies and an instructor at Cambridge University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Opposing the assertion were Brenda Ekwurzel, a climate scientist with the Union of Concerned Scientists; Gavin Schmidt, a climate modeler at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies; and Richard C. J. Somerville, professor at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, University of California, San Diego.

------ Ended in a complete ROUT -- that even Chief Shaman Schmidt acknowledged.

Imagine what would happened if this HONEST debate became a regular feature of the GW showdown.. That "senile whore" convinced a large audience of science afficionados to greatly modify their views of consensus and GW certainties.. Michael Crichton didn't hurt either. Why HAVEN't there been more of these??

 

[flacaltenn]

Except scientists also agree on AGW. Read www.ipcc.ch for more info.

Not according to von Storch 2009 ---- LOTS of stuff they disagree on. Including whether climate science is a mature science. You think the IPCC hires scientists without bias? and that this tiny sliver of the community is a representative sample? Or ya just believe since it's the UN -- everything they say is world opinion...

Love how you reference stuff in your head. WTF is von storch? Your new go-to blog?

Like I said, virtually every scientific organization in the world agrees with the general tenets of the IPCC.

Interesting.. All our warmers indeed DO SUFFER from CRS syndrome. Was just a couple days you were hawking the 97% consensus bullshit and I pulled out some ACTUAL polls of climate scientists that showed no resemblance to a consensus of any type. ONE OF THEM --- which I riffed on for about 10 posts was von Storch 2009 --- because CrickHam (((who has terminal CRS, at least when it comes to his favorite sport here in enviro))) --- pulled it out to bolster the Consensus garbage.. Ring any bells?

von Storch 2009 is the way us scientists avoid CRS.. Hey governor --- I work very hard to communicate with you. Kinda the purpose of a message board.. Least you could do is get off Mt Stupid and try to keep up...

What -- is all this NEW to you???

Hans von Storch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opinion on global warming[edit]
He said that global warming exists:

"Based on the scientific evidence, I am convinced that we are facing anthropogenic climate change brought about by the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."[2]
He is also known for an article in Der Spiegel he co-wrote with Nico Stehr, which states that:

"Scientific research faces a crisis because its public figures are overselling the issues to gain attention in a hotly contested market for newsworthy information."[3]
"The alarmists think that climate change is something extremely dangerous, extremely bad and that overselling a little bit, if it serves a good purpose, is not that bad."[4]
In December 2009, he expressed concern about the credibility of science and criticized some publicly visible scientists for simplifying and dramatizing their communications. He pointed to the German Waldsterben (Forest dieback) hype of the 1980s:[5]

Research about the forest die back in Germany may serve as an example at the other end of the spectrum. The science of forest damages was in the 1980s heavily politicized, and used as support for a specific preconceived "good" policy of environmental protection. The resulting overselling and dramatization broke down in the 1990s, and news about adverse developments in German forests is now a hard sell in Germany. An observer wrote in 2004: "The damage for the scientists is enormous. Nobody believes them any longer." Of course, the damage was not only limited to the forest researchers, but also to other environmental scientists and politicians as well.
In January 2011, Storch was counted among the 100 most influential Germans by the Focus magazine for being a "climate realist".[6]

On 20 June 2013 Storch stated "So far, no one has been able to provide a compelling answer to why climate change seems to be taking a break. We're facing a puzzle. Recent CO2 emissions have actually risen even more steeply than we feared. As a result, according to most climate models, we should have seen temperatures rise by around 0.25 degrees Celsius (0.45 degrees Fahrenheit) over the past 10 years. That hasn't happened. In fact, the increase over the last 15 years was just 0.06 degrees Celsius (0.11 degrees Fahrenheit) -- a value very close to zero. This is a serious scientific problem that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will have to confront when it presents its next Assessment Report late next year."[7]

Von Storch is in agreement that we are changing the climate. He is just on the end of the spectrum that states that that is not that bad of a deal. On the other end are the scientists of the AMEG;

Arctic Methane Emergency Group (AMEG)

In between are peope like myself that see the continuing warming drying out our forests with increasingly frequent droughts, warmer winters creating more problems with summer irrigation, and increasingly strong precipitation events costing us more in infrastructure costs. And the swings in natural variability being warmer on the highs, and warmer on the lows. Wilder and wider swings in the weather with an overall warming. Been making that predication for 20 years, that is what is happening, and will continue to happen.

So what you're saying is 'cvon Storch 2009 is a newspaper article.

Of course, you sorta made it sound like a scientific paper, but I'm sure you weren't being dishonest....

Hey douchebag.. It is the most IN-DEPTH opinion poll of Climate Scientists that I've ever seen. AN ACTUAL POLL -- with climate scientists Bray and von Storch designing the questions.. YOU on the other hand believe in the 97% farce that was concocted by a cartoonist and his sidekick that runs one of the schlockiest science websites in the webverse.

Besides -- you were IN THE FUCKING THREAD when I posted questions and results from this poll and you SHOULD KNOW ( if you are indeed awake and sentient ) that it was not just a newspaper article.

What kind of are you???

 

[flacaltenn]

As Ive been saying for some time.........nobody cares about the science. Of course, we do have a handful of people out there that are consumed with the topic but generally speaking, the country could care less about climate change and science in general. EVERY poll shows it.....global warming is LAST or close to last on the list of peoples concerns.

American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology

You realize that you are destroying your own argument right?

Americans are terrible at science. And Americans could care less about AGW.

You somehow think that this shows that the public should be trusted on the importance of climate change?

I think you get both a 'D' in science and an 'F' in logic.

Oh my --- I've got to agree with 3goofs.. Kinda..
Most of the public has been fed nothing but hyperventilating fear and hysteria on Global Warming.. Therefore they should NOT be trusted. But that's the game really anyway. Because they WANT more 3Goofs and CrickHam and GoldiRocks that can be easily convinced that the science actually SUPPORTS the hysteria.

But 2 or 3 or 10 good open debates on the topic and firing a bunch of politically appointed scientists that hide in high govt offices would fix a lot of that... There's only ever been 2 or 3 BALANCED and OPEN debates on the topic. That right thar tells you a bunch don't it?? Media can't even handle the bacon and eggs debate properly. Because "journalists" are just college kids that were too lazy to learn anything other than form and style..

Except scientists also agree on AGW. Read www.ipcc.ch for more info.

Not according to von Storch 2009 ---- LOTS of stuff they disagree on. Including whether climate science is a mature science. You think the IPCC hires scientists without bias? and that this tiny sliver of the community is a representative sample? Or ya just believe since it's the UN -- everything they say is world opinion...

Flacaltenn, there it is in black and white. It is not science unless it is politically correct. If our government supports it, or agrees to it, it must be wrong. And the fruitloops on the radical right wing are always correct. That is your basis for judging science.

The Prez, the media, the UN and the 535 congress critters have MADE the debate political.. YOU have said that it's admirable for scientists to be socio-political activists. I'm opposed to those propositions. James Hansen and his clone Gavin Schmidt are the ultimate butt-boys for the movement. They are doing EXACTLY what you think they should. Which is propagandizing the topic, giving cover to lousy and misleading public information, and exaggerating claims not really made by the science.

For a government that can't seem to present ANY NUMBERS on ANY TOPIC without spinning and misrepresenting them to the public ---- what makes you think this is any different?

How much useful currency is in the Soc Sec trust fund? You believe THAT accounting? How many illegal aliens in the USA today?? How much money did the ObamaCare rollout REALLY cost?

It's all politically embellished. And political appointees are gonna do what they were annointed to do.. Which is what YOU want to them do. Lie for the cause..

I don't EVER want to see that effect in science. We had the independence that was required to avoid looking like the hired help of tyrants and kings. I want to keep it that way....

 

[threegoofs]

Not according to von Storch 2009 ---- LOTS of stuff they disagree on. Including whether climate science is a mature science. You think the IPCC hires scientists without bias? and that this tiny sliver of the community is a representative sample? Or ya just believe since it's the UN -- everything they say is world opinion...

Love how you reference stuff in your head. WTF is von storch? Your new go-to blog?

Like I said, virtually every scientific organization in the world agrees with the general tenets of the IPCC.

Interesting.. All our warmers indeed DO SUFFER from CRS syndrome. Was just a couple days you were hawking the 97% consensus bullshit and I pulled out some ACTUAL polls of climate scientists that showed no resemblance to a consensus of any type. ONE OF THEM --- which I riffed on for about 10 posts was von Storch 2009 --- because CrickHam (((who has terminal CRS, at least when it comes to his favorite sport here in enviro))) --- pulled it out to bolster the Consensus garbage.. Ring any bells?

von Storch 2009 is the way us scientists avoid CRS.. Hey governor --- I work very hard to communicate with you. Kinda the purpose of a message board.. Least you could do is get off Mt Stupid and try to keep up...

What -- is all this NEW to you???

Hans von Storch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opinion on global warming[edit]
He said that global warming exists:

"Based on the scientific evidence, I am convinced that we are facing anthropogenic climate change brought about by the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."[2]
He is also known for an article in Der Spiegel he co-wrote with Nico Stehr, which states that:

"Scientific research faces a crisis because its public figures are overselling the issues to gain attention in a hotly contested market for newsworthy information."[3]
"The alarmists think that climate change is something extremely dangerous, extremely bad and that overselling a little bit, if it serves a good purpose, is not that bad."[4]
In December 2009, he expressed concern about the credibility of science and criticized some publicly visible scientists for simplifying and dramatizing their communications. He pointed to the German Waldsterben (Forest dieback) hype of the 1980s:[5]

Research about the forest die back in Germany may serve as an example at the other end of the spectrum. The science of forest damages was in the 1980s heavily politicized, and used as support for a specific preconceived "good" policy of environmental protection. The resulting overselling and dramatization broke down in the 1990s, and news about adverse developments in German forests is now a hard sell in Germany. An observer wrote in 2004: "The damage for the scientists is enormous. Nobody believes them any longer." Of course, the damage was not only limited to the forest researchers, but also to other environmental scientists and politicians as well.
In January 2011, Storch was counted among the 100 most influential Germans by the Focus magazine for being a "climate realist".[6]

On 20 June 2013 Storch stated "So far, no one has been able to provide a compelling answer to why climate change seems to be taking a break. We're facing a puzzle. Recent CO2 emissions have actually risen even more steeply than we feared. As a result, according to most climate models, we should have seen temperatures rise by around 0.25 degrees Celsius (0.45 degrees Fahrenheit) over the past 10 years. That hasn't happened. In fact, the increase over the last 15 years was just 0.06 degrees Celsius (0.11 degrees Fahrenheit) -- a value very close to zero. This is a serious scientific problem that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will have to confront when it presents its next Assessment Report late next year."[7]

Von Storch is in agreement that we are changing the climate. He is just on the end of the spectrum that states that that is not that bad of a deal. On the other end are the scientists of the AMEG;

Arctic Methane Emergency Group (AMEG)

In between are peope like myself that see the continuing warming drying out our forests with increasingly frequent droughts, warmer winters creating more problems with summer irrigation, and increasingly strong precipitation events costing us more in infrastructure costs. And the swings in natural variability being warmer on the highs, and warmer on the lows. Wilder and wider swings in the weather with an overall warming. Been making that predication for 20 years, that is what is happening, and will continue to happen.

So what you're saying is 'cvon Storch 2009 is a newspaper article.

Of course, you sorta made it sound like a scientific paper, but I'm sure you weren't being dishonest....

Hey douchebag.. It is the most IN-DEPTH opinion poll of Climate Scientists that I've ever seen. AN ACTUAL POLL -- with climate scientists Bray and von Storch designing the questions.. YOU on the other hand believe in the 97% farce that was concocted by a cartoonist and his sidekick that runs one of the schlockiest science websites in the webverse.

Besides -- you were IN THE FUCKING THREAD when I posted questions and results from this poll and you SHOULD KNOW ( if you are indeed awake and sentient ) that it was not just a newspaper article.

What kind of are you???

I can't remember all your pet denier articles by heart. So to clarify, it was a poll. Wow. That's sure definitive.

If you don't like Cook, BTW, you can go to about a half dozen other published surveys (was Von Storch published?, or just on a blog?) and they show similar stuff.

The more you know, the more you understand AGW. Don't know if you have figured it out yet, but that puts you on the Mt Stupid side of the chasm.