Clunkers program could drive used car prices up

[Kevin_Kennedy]

By offering them up to $4500.00 for their old one? Let's be honest, if we are TRULY concerned about the "middle income families who can't afford a new car", what's the chance of them getting $4500.00 for it as a traditional trade-in?

Alright, looking at Ford's website it appears that their cheapest car is the Ford Focus-Sedan.

Ford Vehicle Showroom

Let's do the math.

A family turns in their clunker for $4500 but they must buy a new car and they settle for the Ford Focus-Sedan. Now Ford's website prices the Focus at $15,995, so they put their $4500 towards the new Focus of course. They now owe $11,495 for the Ford Focus-Sedan. For a low or middle-income family, taking on over $11,000 in debt is not a good financial decision. A used car is a much better decision, financially, but now the price of those used cars are being driven up by government intervention in the market. So I ask again, how does paying more for a used car, or buying a new car they can't afford, help these people?

Do you know how many used cars are sold a year and what percentage the 750k or let's say 400k in resalable condition would have been to the total used cars sold a year?

I am trying to figure out what percentage these clunkers are to the total used car business?

Anyway, on your scenario above...NO ONE IS FORCING the individual to take the cash for clunkers program are they? don't individuals have free choice in this country?

What the poor family could do is SELL THEIR CLUNKER on the free market, and then buy another used car with it....

IF WHAT YOU SAY is correct and used car prices will rise because of the shortage, then this "poor person" can sell his own car and GET MORE FOR IT, before he buys the newer used car.... He will get more for his old one, and pay more for the newer used car he buys...but it would be a wash.

Care

You have to buy a new car to qualify for Cash for Clunkers.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The point was that for a family that can't afford to take on $11,000+ of debt then a used car is obviously a better choice for them.

Obviously? Are you serious? How does a used car WITHOUT a warranty help the owner when said used car breaks down and becomes useless? Not only is the "middle income families who can't afford a new car" now stuck paying for POS car, but they can no longer use it as transportation? Obviously? Please....

If you can't afford to go into debt then a used car is a better financial decision, otherwise people wouldn't buy used cars at all.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So what good are we doing for the environment if the clunker is NOT taken off the road but is simply being driven by someone else?

I'd also need to see some real evidence to support the claim that the program is driving up the costs of used cars before just accepting it as a fact. And a newspapoer article saying this "may" happen just ain't gonna do it for me. An Asteroid "MAY" hit the planet tomorrow, but I'm not gonna head to the bunker until I have a little more evidence.

Well it's basic supply-and-demand. If there's a shortage of something then prices go up. This Cash for Clunkers program creates a shortage of used cars, therefore the prices of used cars are going to rise.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Who the fuck decided that everyone in the middle class must buy a fucking used car during this effort to stimulate the economy? Are used cars going to stop being sold this year? I swear to fucking god. some of you people will bitch and cry that a golden apple doesn't taste like fucking steak.

If you need a car then you need a car, but it doesn't help if the government causes the price of the car to be higher than it normally would be.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Well it's basic supply-and-demand. If there's a shortage of something then prices go up. This Cash for Clunkers program creates a shortage of used cars, therefore the prices of used cars are going to rise.

No one has produced any evidence that there is a shortage of used cars and no one has produced any evidence that prices are rising faster than normal.

This whole thread is complaining about a hypothetical that may or may not occur.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Well it's basic supply-and-demand. If there's a shortage of something then prices go up. This Cash for Clunkers program creates a shortage of used cars, therefore the prices of used cars are going to rise.

No one has produced any evidence that there is a shortage of used cars and no one has produced any evidence that prices are rising faster than normal.

This whole thread is complaining about a hypothetical that may or may not occur.

Maybe you missed the article in the very first post of this thread? How could there not be a shortage of used cars with the popularity of the Cash for Clunkers program?

 

[Shogun]

Who the fuck decided that everyone in the middle class must buy a fucking used car during this effort to stimulate the economy? Are used cars going to stop being sold this year? I swear to fucking god. some of you people will bitch and cry that a golden apple doesn't taste like fucking steak.

If you need a car then you need a car, but it doesn't help if the government causes the price of the car to be higher than it normally would be.

so, the sum total of all used cars that will be sold in the next decade will happen during THIS cash for clunkers period of time? Give me a break, dude. All the silly nitpicking is petty as fuck. Do you ahve an amount of thwarted used car buyers are out pondering their bad luck or is this just some hypothetical based on the assumption that at least one person is getting shafted due to this program? Like i said, people will bitch that the golden apple doesn't taste like steak just because they think there is political capital involved. Well, I'm calling bullshit.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Maybe you missed the article in the very first post of this thread? How could there not be a shortage of used cars with the popularity of the Cash for Clunkers program?

No I didn't miss it.
The story says "may" and "could".
Hypothetical drivel. An asteroid could come crashing to earth and may hit me on the head.

How could there not be a shortage of used cars with the popularity of the Cash for Clunkers program?

There are many many possibilities - not to mention the HUGE inventory dealers have on their lots right now.
Why not wait and see if it really happens before you start complaining about it happening - that's MHO anyway. Complaining about hypotheticals makes you look like someone who is just hell-bent on complaining.

 

[Intense]

So what good are we doing for the environment if the clunker is NOT taken off the road but is simply being driven by someone else?

I'd also need to see some real evidence to support the claim that the program is driving up the costs of used cars before just accepting it as a fact. And a newspapoer article saying this "may" happen just ain't gonna do it for me. An Asteroid "MAY" hit the planet tomorrow, but I'm not gonna head to the bunker until I have a little more evidence.

What good are we doing for the economy by destroying something of value in exchange for money from the Government that it does not have needing to borrow with interest, print , and tax, in order to implement.

Here is a magic concept for you. Depreciation. 1 Year, 2 Year, 3 Year, 4. Bet the healthier of those clunkers would have out lived what they are being traded in for, had they not been destroyed.

 

[nodoginnafight]

you can bet all you want - I hate to burst your bubble but your wagers do not necessarily constitute sound public policy. Let's see some EVIDENCE

THEN we can see if there is something there to complain about.

Until then ... you just come off as a malcontent

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Who the fuck decided that everyone in the middle class must buy a fucking used car during this effort to stimulate the economy? Are used cars going to stop being sold this year? I swear to fucking god. some of you people will bitch and cry that a golden apple doesn't taste like fucking steak.

If you need a car then you need a car, but it doesn't help if the government causes the price of the car to be higher than it normally would be.

so, the sum total of all used cars that will be sold in the next decade will happen during THIS cash for clunkers period of time? Give me a break, dude. All the silly nitpicking is petty as fuck. Do you ahve an amount of thwarted used car buyers are out pondering their bad luck or is this just some hypothetical based on the assumption that at least one person is getting shafted due to this program? Like i said, people will bitch that the golden apple doesn't taste like steak just because they think there is political capital involved. Well, I'm calling bullshit.

Well for starters, when is this Cash for Clunkers period of time going to end? They already ran through their initial funding, and then passed more. I assume when they run through that they'll pass even more. So when does the period end? When the car industry can stand on its own? History shows that any industry that gets government support ends up relying on that support for its survival. The U.S. steel industry for instance. So we don't know when this Cash for Clunkers is going to end. Even if the program does finally end, and something else doesn't replace it, there's going to be an imbalance in the used car market for a long while. Used car prices are going to be artificially high for a long time because of government intervention in the market.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Maybe you missed the article in the very first post of this thread? How could there not be a shortage of used cars with the popularity of the Cash for Clunkers program?

No I didn't miss it.
The story says "may" and "could".
Hypothetical drivel. An asteroid could come crashing to earth and may hit me on the head.

How could there not be a shortage of used cars with the popularity of the Cash for Clunkers program?

There are many many possibilities - not to mention the HUGE inventory dealers have on their lots right now.
Why not wait and see if it really happens before you start complaining about it happening - that's MHO anyway. Complaining about hypotheticals makes you look like someone who is just hell-bent on complaining.

The warning comes from dealers and market analysts. In other words, people in the car business are saying that used car prices are going up because of this program.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Another nice story:

Clunker plan crushes Oklahoma's used parts supplies

 

[nodoginnafight]

I assume when they run through that they'll pass even more.

This thread in a nutshell

I want to complain about what I assume is going to happen.

 

[Shogun]

If you need a car then you need a car, but it doesn't help if the government causes the price of the car to be higher than it normally would be.

so, the sum total of all used cars that will be sold in the next decade will happen during THIS cash for clunkers period of time? Give me a break, dude. All the silly nitpicking is petty as fuck. Do you ahve an amount of thwarted used car buyers are out pondering their bad luck or is this just some hypothetical based on the assumption that at least one person is getting shafted due to this program? Like i said, people will bitch that the golden apple doesn't taste like steak just because they think there is political capital involved. Well, I'm calling bullshit.

Well for starters, when is this Cash for Clunkers period of time going to end? They already ran through their initial funding, and then passed more. I assume when they run through that they'll pass even more. So when does the period end? When the car industry can stand on its own? History shows that any industry that gets government support ends up relying on that support for its survival. The U.S. steel industry for instance. So we don't know when this Cash for Clunkers is going to end. Even if the program does finally end, and something else doesn't replace it, there's going to be an imbalance in the used car market for a long while. Used car prices are going to be artificially high for a long time because of government intervention in the market.

it will end when people are not out FLOCKING to the fucking car dealerships to trade in their old cars for new ones. Did you happen to notice that car lots are not fucking ghost towns? That you can cry about the poor picked up used car buyer DESPITE the droves of fucking people benefiting from this? And, be sure, had it been my perogative i'd have only applied it to cars BUILT IN THE USA rather than hemmorage more money to another asian nation. I can imagine your response to an idea like that.

Funny you bring up steal though... you know, given how that is one more industry that has been totally raked accross the coals for the sake of "global free trade".

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I assume when they run through that they'll pass even more.

This thread in a nutshell

I want to complain about what I assume is going to happen.

Get real.

"There's nothing so permanent as a temporary government program." - Milton Friedman

 

[Intense]

you can bet all you want - I hate to burst your bubble but your wagers do not necessarily constitute sound public policy. Let's see some EVIDENCE

THEN we can see if there is something there to complain about.

Until then ... you just come off as a malcontent

Look at whats out there now. Sound public policy is to not manipulate what you don't understand. You are welcome to your mobile coffin.

 

[Shogun]

I assume when they run through that they'll pass even more.

This thread in a nutshell

I want to complain about what I assume is going to happen.

Get real.

"There's nothing so permanent as a temporary government program." - Milton Friedman

yea, dude.. everything the government does is fucking tragic. Why let the FDA ban thalomide when, clearly, a few flipper babies will achieve the same with a free market approach.. duh.. it only takes a few dead babies from toxic babyfood to get the message out.

for real, dude. PETTY.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Fixing a broken car is cheaper than buying new. If your car breaks you're only without transportation until it's fixed.

So the poor middle class family is now getting the used car for FREE? Please tell me where, so I can go get mine. IF they are GIVING away the used cars, then yes, I will agree it is a much better deal than having to PAY for a new one!

Where did I imply that people are getting used cars for free?

If you have a 6 year old car and it requires $2,000 worth of work -- that's cheaper than buying a new car for $12,000 (or whatever). You don't agree?

The economy in general has driven up used car prices; cash for clunkers may as well.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

so, the sum total of all used cars that will be sold in the next decade will happen during THIS cash for clunkers period of time? Give me a break, dude. All the silly nitpicking is petty as fuck. Do you ahve an amount of thwarted used car buyers are out pondering their bad luck or is this just some hypothetical based on the assumption that at least one person is getting shafted due to this program? Like i said, people will bitch that the golden apple doesn't taste like steak just because they think there is political capital involved. Well, I'm calling bullshit.

Well for starters, when is this Cash for Clunkers period of time going to end? They already ran through their initial funding, and then passed more. I assume when they run through that they'll pass even more. So when does the period end? When the car industry can stand on its own? History shows that any industry that gets government support ends up relying on that support for its survival. The U.S. steel industry for instance. So we don't know when this Cash for Clunkers is going to end. Even if the program does finally end, and something else doesn't replace it, there's going to be an imbalance in the used car market for a long while. Used car prices are going to be artificially high for a long time because of government intervention in the market.

it will end when people are not out FLOCKING to the fucking car dealerships to trade in their old cars for new ones. Did you happen to notice that car lots are not fucking ghost towns? That you can cry about the poor picked up used car buyer DESPITE the droves of fucking people benefiting from this? And, be sure, had it been my perogative i'd have only applied it to cars BUILT IN THE USA rather than hemmorage more money to another asian nation. I can imagine your response to an idea like that.

Funny you bring up steal though... you know, given how that is one more industry that has been totally raked accross the coals for the sake of "global free trade".

When will that be? Months? Years? Certainly this program is nice for those that can afford a new car, or are willing to take on the debt whether they can afford it or not. But for those who can't afford a new car, and need a used car, they're hurt by this program. Also, the fact still stands that the imbalance in the used car market will last for a long while after this program is finally ended, considering all the destroyed cars.

Yes, steel effected heavily by "evil" free trade. Despite being protected almost since its inception by the federal government.