Concealed Carry Permit Holder Saves The Day

[Otter_Creek]

The citizen didn't pull his gun fast enough?
When a gun is aimed at someone they are in danger of dieing.
If it's your 16 year old daughter or son standing at the register with a gun in their face do you want me to ask them is it okay to protect them?

The idiot pulled his gun, that was his first mistake. As soon as he did that he made everyone in the place a target.

Go fuck yourself idiot. Even the police spokesman said he may have saved lives.

"A good Samaritan inside the Burger King had a concealed weapons permit. He confronted the robbery suspect at which time shots were fired," said Miami police spokesman Jeff Giordano. "There were a lot of people inside the Burger King; he may have saved lives. It was a brave act."

You're as dumb as snot and less attractive. Go play with your Dorthy and Toto dolls and shut the fuck up about our country.

 

[alan1]

Lets see, WW2 lasted 6 years and over 70 MILLION people died. But lets assume you just mean Americans. The war lasted less than 4 years and you want to compare it to almost 50 years, ya good comparison there you dumb ass.

Again statistically firearms deaths are insignificant in the US.

The deaths of 1,00,000 Americans are "insignificant?"

Not to their loved ones....

I was waiting for this, remind us again, HOW MANY DIED IN CAR ACCIDENTS SINCE 1960? And why aren't you up in arms about the fact that EVERY year more people die in car accidents then are killed by firearms? Are they unimportant to you? Or is it just ACCEPTABLE that thousands more die every year in car accidents cause you like to drive?

More people die from accidental pool drowning than from accidental gunshots. We should outlaw swimming pools. Don't even get me started on people that die from accidentally falling of a ladder, or people that die from falling down while taking a shower then die.

 

[xotoxi]

Go fuck yourself idiot. Even the police spokesman said he may have saved lives.

You're as dumb as snot and less attractive. Go play with your Dorthy and Toto dolls and shut the fuck up about our country.

Derogatory language like this only goes to prove that you have lost the argument...miserably.

 

[KittenKoder]

Go fuck yourself idiot. Even the police spokesman said he may have saved lives.

You're as dumb as snot and less attractive. Go play with your Dorthy and Toto dolls and shut the fuck up about our country.

Derogatory language like this only goes to prove that you have lost the argument...miserably.

Aaaw ... did someone offend your fucking retarded sensibilities, want to be treating as a shit eating flower from now on ...

 

[Diuretic]

The citizen didn't pull his gun fast enough?
When a gun is aimed at someone they are in danger of dieing.
If it's your 16 year old daughter or son standing at the register with a gun in their face do you want me to ask them is it okay to protect them?

The idiot pulled his gun, that was his first mistake. As soon as he did that he made everyone in the place a target.

Go fuck yourself idiot. Even the police spokesman said he may have saved lives.

"A good Samaritan inside the Burger King had a concealed weapons permit. He confronted the robbery suspect at which time shots were fired," said Miami police spokesman Jeff Giordano. "There were a lot of people inside the Burger King; he may have saved lives. It was a brave act."

You're as dumb as snot and less attractive. Go play with your Dorthy and Toto dolls and shut the fuck up about our country.

Nothing other than that? Nothing?

Pussy

 

[Diuretic]

Go fuck yourself idiot. Even the police spokesman said he may have saved lives.

You're as dumb as snot and less attractive. Go play with your Dorthy and Toto dolls and shut the fuck up about our country.

Derogatory language like this only goes to prove that you have lost the argument...miserably.

Aaaw ... did someone offend your fucking retarded sensibilities, want to be treating as a shit eating flower from now on ...

Hey, ease off the flowers petal, they ain't the only things that thrive on shit

 

[garyd]

You've slightly lowered your murder rate. Good deal. But whether that has to do with your idiotic gun laws or is just part of trend in Western countries including the US over the last Decade is debateable.

By the way since the inception of your hand gun laws virtually every other Crime is up substantially especially home invasion type robberies.

 

[Diuretic]

You've slightly lowered your murder rate. Good deal. But whether that has to do with your idiotic gun laws or is just part of trend in Western countries including the US over the last Decade is debateable.

By the way since the inception of your hand gun laws virtually every other Crime is up substantially especially home invasion type robberies.

My response was to MM's question, Where has this worked, elsewhere in the world? was meant to have a limited effect, it was in a particular micro discussion in the thread and not intended to be anything other than a response to MM. Willow gave it a bit of a towelling but graciously accepted my explanation that it was just a claim and not a comparison.

I have no intention of suggesting my country is somewhow morally superior to yours because our firearms control laws are different from your country's (and by that I know they are at state and federal levels in both countries but it's really clumsy having to make that distinction all the time when we all, I think, know to what we refer).

You call our firearms control laws "idiotic". Fine, if you knew anything about them I'd take you seriously. You don't, I don't take you seriously.

Now, what about the bloke that pulled his shooter in the restaurant? Are you brimming with admiration or do you think he's a dick?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You've slightly lowered your murder rate. Good deal. But whether that has to do with your idiotic gun laws or is just part of trend in Western countries including the US over the last Decade is debateable.

By the way since the inception of your hand gun laws virtually every other Crime is up substantially especially home invasion type robberies.

My response was to MM's question, Where has this worked, elsewhere in the world? was meant to have a limited effect, it was in a particular micro discussion in the thread and not intended to be anything other than a response to MM. Willow gave it a bit of a towelling but graciously accepted my explanation that it was just a claim and not a comparison.

I have no intention of suggesting my country is somewhow morally superior to yours because our firearms control laws are different from your country's (and by that I know they are at state and federal levels in both countries but it's really clumsy having to make that distinction all the time when we all, I think, know to what we refer).

You call our firearms control laws "idiotic". Fine, if you knew anything about them I'd take you seriously. You don't, I don't take you seriously.

Now, what about the bloke that pulled his shooter in the restaurant? Are you brimming with admiration or do you think he's a dick?

Well, since the COPS think he may have saved lives, I suggest you are full of SHIT as usual. You were not there and have no idea what was going on or what prompted the patron to pull his weapon. The COPS happen to know who the criminal was and agree that the shooting probably saved lives. So much for YOUR bullshit.

And when you bring up gun laws one MUST talk about crime, since the entire PREMISE of doing away with firearms is to LOWER crime rates, when in fact it does JUST the opposite. It encourages all kind of crimes that would not generally occur in the numbers that happen after gun control for the very reason that the criminals now know they are safe from being shot or threatened with a shooting.

 

[Chris]

You've slightly lowered your murder rate. Good deal. But whether that has to do with your idiotic gun laws or is just part of trend in Western countries including the US over the last Decade is debateable.

By the way since the inception of your hand gun laws virtually every other Crime is up substantially especially home invasion type robberies.

My response was to MM's question, Where has this worked, elsewhere in the world? was meant to have a limited effect, it was in a particular micro discussion in the thread and not intended to be anything other than a response to MM. Willow gave it a bit of a towelling but graciously accepted my explanation that it was just a claim and not a comparison.

I have no intention of suggesting my country is somewhow morally superior to yours because our firearms control laws are different from your country's (and by that I know they are at state and federal levels in both countries but it's really clumsy having to make that distinction all the time when we all, I think, know to what we refer).

You call our firearms control laws "idiotic". Fine, if you knew anything about them I'd take you seriously. You don't, I don't take you seriously.

Now, what about the bloke that pulled his shooter in the restaurant? Are you brimming with admiration or do you think he's a dick?

Well, since the COPS think he may have saved lives, I suggest you are full of SHIT as usual. You were not there and have no idea what was going on or what prompted the patron to pull his weapon. The COPS happen to know who the criminal was and agree that the shooting probably saved lives. So much for YOUR bullshit.

And when you bring up gun laws one MUST talk about crime, since the entire PREMISE of doing away with firearms is to LOWER crime rates, when in fact it does JUST the opposite. It encourages all kind of crimes that would not generally occur in the numbers that happen after gun control for the very reason that the criminals now know they are safe from being shot or threatened with a shooting.

No one wants to do away with guns. Just regulate them sensibly. There are 200,000,000 guns in private hands in this country. You could never "do away" with them.

And most cops want to get guns off the street, especially assault rifles. Just ask the cops in Oakland.

 

[Chris]

The deaths of 1,00,000 Americans are "insignificant?"

Not to their loved ones....

I was waiting for this, remind us again, HOW MANY DIED IN CAR ACCIDENTS SINCE 1960? And why aren't you up in arms about the fact that EVERY year more people die in car accidents then are killed by firearms? Are they unimportant to you? Or is it just ACCEPTABLE that thousands more die every year in car accidents cause you like to drive?

More people die from accidental pool drowning than from accidental gunshots. We should outlaw swimming pools. Don't even get me started on people that die from accidentally falling of a ladder, or people that die from falling down while taking a shower then die.

Accidents are not the issue.

The issue is murders and suicides and how the easy access to guns makes it easier to kill ourselves and others.

That is why we have the highest per capita gun death rate of any Western nation.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was waiting for this, remind us again, HOW MANY DIED IN CAR ACCIDENTS SINCE 1960? And why aren't you up in arms about the fact that EVERY year more people die in car accidents then are killed by firearms? Are they unimportant to you? Or is it just ACCEPTABLE that thousands more die every year in car accidents cause you like to drive?

More people die from accidental pool drowning than from accidental gunshots. We should outlaw swimming pools. Don't even get me started on people that die from accidentally falling of a ladder, or people that die from falling down while taking a shower then die.

Accidents are not the issue.

The issue is murders and suicides and how the easy access to guns makes it easier to kill ourselves and others.

That is why we have the highest per capita gun death rate of any Western nation.

And yet MORE PEOPLE die every year due to car accidents. When are you going to demand more regulation there?

 

[Diuretic]

Well, since the COPS think he may have saved lives, I suggest you are full of SHIT as usual. You were not there and have no idea what was going on or what prompted the patron to pull his weapon. The COPS happen to know who the criminal was and agree that the shooting probably saved lives. So much for YOUR bullshit.

And when you bring up gun laws one MUST talk about crime, since the entire PREMISE of doing away with firearms is to LOWER crime rates, when in fact it does JUST the opposite. It encourages all kind of crimes that would not generally occur in the numbers that happen after gun control for the very reason that the criminals now know they are safe from being shot or threatened with a shooting.

The Miami cops are mouthing crap. Now let me put this to you. If the idiot had been killed and the robber had shot six innocent people because he'd been attacked by the idiot, do you think the Miami PD would be praising him? I'll wait for you to work on that one.

And when you bring up gun laws one MUST talk about crime, since the entire PREMISE of doing away with firearms is to LOWER crime rates, when in fact it does JUST the opposite. It encourages all kind of crimes that would not generally occur in the numbers that happen after gun control for the very reason that the criminals now know they are safe from being shot or threatened with a shooting

Do you read anything here? In your fevered mind that agument exists. Time and time again I have made the point that firearms control is not connected with crime control but there you go inventing a position yet again.

Now, I'll type this slowly.

Firearms control is not about crime control.

It's about harm minimisation from the lawful use of firearms.

Got it?

 

[Chris]

More people die from accidental pool drowning than from accidental gunshots. We should outlaw swimming pools. Don't even get me started on people that die from accidentally falling of a ladder, or people that die from falling down while taking a shower then die.

Accidents are not the issue.

The issue is murders and suicides and how the easy access to guns makes it easier to kill ourselves and others.

That is why we have the highest per capita gun death rate of any Western nation.

And yet MORE PEOPLE die every year due to car accidents. When are you going to demand more regulation there?

Thanks for proving my point.

Cars are registered and heavily regulated.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

One man was killed and another seriously wounded in a shootout inside a Miami Burger King on Tuesday, officials said.

Police said a man wearing a ski mask walked into the store at Biscayne Boulevard and 54th Street and demanded money from a clerk.

A customer, who has a concealed weapons permit, pulled a gun, said Officer Jeff Giordano, a Miami police spokesman.

The customer and robber exchanged fire.

The robber was shot dead at the scene.

The customer, who had several gunshot wounds, was taken to Ryder Trauma Center in serious but stable condition, said Lt. Ignatius Carroll, a Miami Fire Rescue spokesman.

At about 4 p.m., officials got several 911 calls reporting people shot inside the Burger King.

1 dead, one injured in Miami Burger King shooting - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

-----

I saw Bravo! No telling how many people were saved because of his actions.

It doesn't sound like a wild-west shootout - and I would never advocate something like that.

But it is obvious that this guy saved not only a robbery but also a possible body count.

The counter argument by the anti gun crowd being, of course, that the robber would have never shot anyone and that the law abiding citizen had no right to "execute" a man for armed robber.

Yes, of course you're right Gunny, that is what the left will say. But we both know that this is due to their not recognizing actual unalienable human rights... and the inherent responsibility to defend one's own right against unjustified threats as well as the rights of those within one's immediate sphere of influence.

The perp got precisely what he deserved and the man who settled that score, was perfectly within his rights to execute him.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well, since the COPS think he may have saved lives, I suggest you are full of SHIT as usual. You were not there and have no idea what was going on or what prompted the patron to pull his weapon. The COPS happen to know who the criminal was and agree that the shooting probably saved lives. So much for YOUR bullshit.

And when you bring up gun laws one MUST talk about crime, since the entire PREMISE of doing away with firearms is to LOWER crime rates, when in fact it does JUST the opposite. It encourages all kind of crimes that would not generally occur in the numbers that happen after gun control for the very reason that the criminals now know they are safe from being shot or threatened with a shooting.

The Miami cops are mouthing crap. Now let me put this to you. If the idiot had been killed and the robber had shot six innocent people because he'd been attacked by the idiot, do you think the Miami PD would be praising him? I'll wait for you to work on that one.

And when you bring up gun laws one MUST talk about crime, since the entire PREMISE of doing away with firearms is to LOWER crime rates, when in fact it does JUST the opposite. It encourages all kind of crimes that would not generally occur in the numbers that happen after gun control for the very reason that the criminals now know they are safe from being shot or threatened with a shooting

Do you read anything here? In your fevered mind that agument exists. Time and time again I have made the point that firearms control is not connected with crime control but there you go inventing a position yet again.

Now, I'll type this slowly.

Firearms control is not about crime control.

It's about harm minimisation from the lawful use of firearms.

Got it?

NOT in this country. And I doubt it is in yours either. Removing firearms from the general population of law abiding citizens endangers more people then any accidental discharge of murder rate. Why? Because criminals become more brazen, more dangerous and more sure they can not be stopped or harmed by their victims.

Your premise is ignorant and devoid of logic and facts.

 

[WillowTree]

Well, since the COPS think he may have saved lives, I suggest you are full of SHIT as usual. You were not there and have no idea what was going on or what prompted the patron to pull his weapon. The COPS happen to know who the criminal was and agree that the shooting probably saved lives. So much for YOUR bullshit.

And when you bring up gun laws one MUST talk about crime, since the entire PREMISE of doing away with firearms is to LOWER crime rates, when in fact it does JUST the opposite. It encourages all kind of crimes that would not generally occur in the numbers that happen after gun control for the very reason that the criminals now know they are safe from being shot or threatened with a shooting.

The Miami cops are mouthing crap. Now let me put this to you. If the idiot had been killed and the robber had shot six innocent people because he'd been attacked by the idiot, do you think the Miami PD would be praising him? I'll wait for you to work on that one.

Why talk about IF Stick to the facts as they happened.. who cares about IF

And when you bring up gun laws one MUST talk about crime, since the entire PREMISE of doing away with firearms is to LOWER crime rates, when in fact it does JUST the opposite. It encourages all kind of crimes that would not generally occur in the numbers that happen after gun control for the very reason that the criminals now know they are safe from being shot or threatened with a shooting

Do you read anything here? In your fevered mind that agument exists. Time and time again I have made the point that firearms control is not connected with crime control but there you go inventing a position yet again.

Now, I'll type this slowly.

Firearms control is not about crime control.

Then why control firearms?

It's about harm minimisation from the lawful use of firearms.

Bullcrap laws that keep you from having an accident? Then why not control automobiles?

Got it?

got it, don't agree with it but got it

...

 

[editec]

The cost of repairing this hero will far exceed the amount of money that would have been stolen.

Happy to hear the armed robber is dead, of course, but still...the outcome could have been happier than it is.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

One man was killed and another seriously wounded in a shootout inside a Miami Burger King on Tuesday, officials said.

Police said a man wearing a ski mask walked into the store at Biscayne Boulevard and 54th Street and demanded money from a clerk.

A customer, who has a concealed weapons permit, pulled a gun, said Officer Jeff Giordano, a Miami police spokesman.

The customer and robber exchanged fire.

The robber was shot dead at the scene.

The customer, who had several gunshot wounds, was taken to Ryder Trauma Center in serious but stable condition, said Lt. Ignatius Carroll, a Miami Fire Rescue spokesman.

At about 4 p.m., officials got several 911 calls reporting people shot inside the Burger King.

1 dead, one injured in Miami Burger King shooting - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

-----

I saw Bravo! No telling how many people were saved because of his actions.

It doesn't sound like a wild-west shootout - and I would never advocate something like that.

But it is obvious that this guy saved not only a robbery but also a possible body count.

Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. First off, the robber most likely would have walked out with $50 and no one would have been injured. Instead, we now have a dead robber (a good thing), but also a wounded idiot who could also be dead because he wasn't smart enough to shoot first or accurate enough. On top of that, had the robber killed the customer first, then he may have taken out a few more people.

So please don't use this as a good case for permitting citizens to pack a gun. I 100% support the right of Amercias to own and carry firearms, but for goodness sake, if you're going to pull one out, know how the fuck to use it.

There is one unwritten rule about handguns. If you carry one, and you decide to pull it out, it better as hell be for the purpose of killing someone, and you better be capable of doing it quickly. No hesitation, no shooting the perp in the leg to hurt him but not kill him. Bang Bang, you're dead mother fucker. End of story. If you can't do that, then don't carry a damn gun because you may end up getting a lot of other people killed due to your carelessness.

Well actually, one is morally obligated to give the perpetrator a chance to surrender. To identify yourself as armed and to provide them the opportunity to turn from their right-usurping activity. Where upon they will be held for arrest and their behavior tried against civil and criminal thresholds...

Now with that said; we must recognize that there is no means for perfection to be guaranteed in such circumstances; the warning and opportunity surrender are fluid and often fleeting... and could be considered simultaneous by those observing the exchange... where the perp sees the armed opponent, turns his muzzle towards the CCW, this alone is an indisputable sign that they've rejected their last good chance to survive a bad decision... thus it is imperative to kill them.

You're EXACTLY right that the intent to kill is presently self evident in the brandishing of a firearm, thus the justification to kill then is present and necessary.

All responsibility for injury to innocent life, including that of the CCW lies with the perpetrator.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The cost of repairing this hero will far exceed the amount of money that would have been stolen.

Happy to hear the armed robber is dead, of course, but still...the outcome could have been happier than it is.

What's it cost to repair the damage to those whose rights were usurped through the misuse of his individual power?

I understand your attempt to make a practical argument of tangible cost-v-benefit; but this is not an argument over tangible losses...

This C/B analysis has seen entire continents of individuals lose their means to defend themselves through the use of a firearm and its based upon a fundamental misnomer.

There is no potential benefit to empowering the lowest common denominator in a culture; thus the only item remaining in the calculation is COST.

The man had threatened, WITH NEITHER A VALID MORAL OR LEGAL JUSTIFICATION, the lives of everyone in the establishment. That he MAY have exited the building without actually injuring or killing someone IS IRRELEVANT... The potential for ill-gotten-gain, (Bobo and Chris... that means the amount of money he might have stolen) is IRRELVANT.

The ONLY relevant issue is the RIGHTS he STRIPPED from INNOCENT PEOPLE! He Forfeited his own rights the minute he exerted his power to intentionally strip others of THEIRS.

The argument which seeks to DEFEND the rights of those who are INCONTROVERTIBLY IGNORING THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS is ABSURD!

It does however establish those, such as yourself and Diur, who bring such argument, to have absolutely NO UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HUMAN RIGHTS ARE; that you're secularist, who apply to Human Rights the same relativism which secularist bring to every issue.

You DEMAND the rights of those who have NO REGARD for the rights of others and DISMISS ANY POTENTIAL FOR A RIGHT TO CARRY INTRINSIC RESPONSIBILITY. And where you may claim to understand that a right brings 'responsibility' you reject any recognition that where there is responsibility, there are CONSEQUENCES.

And that is why the cultures which lend credence to secularism are doomed to fail. As the reasoning on which that cultures governance is based is fatally flawed.

This situation is a PERFECT example of how those who recognize the responsibility intrinsic in their human rights, hold each other accountable. This CCW was presented with an eggregeous violation of human rights, by someone who, in their immediate presence was threatening their OWN life and that of the others in his immediate sphere of influence. The intangible cost to society by letting that individual do so VASTLY outwieghs the cost of reparing the injuries of those defending against it ... ALL TANGIBLE COSTS ARE THE SOLE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE OFFENDER. NOT SOCIETIES, NOT THE DEFENDER, NOT THE INNOCENT WHOSE MEANS TO EXERCISE THEIR RIGHTS WERE BEING USURPED...

That he is dead, having foefeited his rights is absolutely IRRELEVANT.