Concerned About The Emerging Police State?

[MikeK]

If you are not yet concerned about the gradual drift toward an America in which police conduct is unrestrained and the Constitution is ignored, go here:

And here: St. Paul Cops Shoot Dog in Wrong-Door Raid, Force Handcuffed Kids to Sit Near the Corpse

Also, note the number of YouTube videos devoted to the same topic.

And if you still think your home is your castle you might wish to check out the Cato Institute's report on the rising number of no-knock break-ins all over the Nation.

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids

 

[Pogo]

Incredible. Although to anyone who's been paying any attention at all, not a surprise.

Some indication of how frequent this bullshit goes on is indicated by the number of related stories that come up on YouTube after the video plays. This is one of them --- a woman groped by a court officer who then gets arrested for "allegations against a police officer".

​

--- and the judge -- female judge --- ignores the whole thing.

This is a fucked up world.

 

[Unkotare]

Police State?

2016


Five Police Officers Killed Across Country This Week

 

[HenryBHough]

Police State?

Five Police Officers Killed Across Country This Week

AND, let us not forget:

"THANK YOU", "President" Obama!

 

[MikeK]

Police State?

2016


Five Police Officers Killed Across Country This Week

What does that have to do with the kind of excessive, unnecessary violations of the Constitution described in the YouTube videos and in the Cato Institute report?

 

[MikeK]

Police State?

Five Police Officers Killed Across Country This Week

AND, let us not forget:

"THANK YOU", "President" Obama!

What does Obama have to do with the kind of excessive, unnecessary violations of the Constitution described in the YouTube videos and the Cato Institute report?

 

[MikeK]

Incredible. Although to anyone who's been paying any attention at all, not a surprise.

Some indication of how frequent this bullshit goes on is indicated by the number of related stories that come up on YouTube after the video plays. This is one of them --- a woman groped by a court officer who then gets arrested for "allegations against a police officer".

​

--- and the judge -- female judge --- ignores the whole thing.

This is a fucked up world.

It's not the whole world. There are places in the world where the police do not behave this way toward citizens who do not deserve it.

I have no problem with police brutality -- provided the individuals who are brutalized provoke it and deserve it. But what we are seeing is a significant rise in the occurrence and nature of wholly unnecessary and excessive police misconduct and un-Constitutional actions against ordinary citizens.

 

[MikeK]

If you are not yet concerned about the gradual drift toward an America in which police conduct is unrestrained and the Constitution is ignored, go here:

And here: St. Paul Cops Shoot Dog in Wrong-Door Raid, Force Handcuffed Kids to Sit Near the Corpse

Also, note the number of YouTube videos devoted to the same topic.

And if you still think your home is your castle you might wish to check out the Cato Institute's report on the rising number of no-knock break-ins all over the Nation.

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids

You think this is funny, Clayton?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Concerned About The Emerging Police State?"

No – because there is no ‘police state,’ ‘emerging’ or otherwise, the thread premise fails as a slippery slope fallacy.

The notion is paranoid, delusional nonsense, exhibiting ignorance as to what a police state actually is; or it’s willful ignorance pursuant to demagoguery.

It also exhibits ignorance as to 4th and 5th Amendment jurisprudence concerning search and seizure, police detention, and the mechanics of due process and the relationship between government and those governed with regard to citizens’ Constitutional rights.

Moreover, anecdotal incidents regarding police misconduct are not ‘evidence’ in support of an ‘emerging police state,’ nor are they ‘evidence’ of citizens’ rights being ‘violated’ until such time as a neutral magistrate determines otherwise.

Last, this very thread is itself proof there is no ‘police state’ – in a police state this forum would not exist, and posting videos of police misconduct would not be allowed.

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

I'm all for a temporary police state if it would raid the 75 mosques found to preach hate and advocate sharia, then strip them of any citizenship and drop them off in some Islamic country, without the benefit of parachutes.

 

[MikeK]

I'm all for a temporary police state if it would raid the 75 mosques found to preach hate and advocate sharia, then strip them of any citizenship and drop them off in some Islamic country, without the benefit of parachutes.

I have no problem with your objective. But I hasten to advise that asking for a temporary police state is like asking for a temporary root canal.

Once you got it, you got it.

 

[MikeK]

"Concerned About The Emerging Police State?"

No – because there is no ‘police state,’ ‘emerging’ or otherwise, the thread premise fails as a slippery slope fallacy.

[...]

While it certainly is true that a fully developed police state does not presently exist in America, whether or not there are indications that such a condition might be emerging is a matter of opinion. Your opinion vs the opinions of a hell of a lot of Americans who believe otherwise.

The platform for my argument is a factor with roots in America's Colonial era, when the "police" were in fact soldiers, British Regulars, who patrolled the towns and residential communities for the purpose of enforcing laws imposed by the Crown. Because tax evasion was a common offense in the colonies, the Regulars (police) frequently conducted early morning break-in raids on the homes of individuals they suspected of harboring or trafficking in illegal items.

These break-in raids were among the most antagonistic provocations for the American Revolution. The bitter resentment evoked by these brutally humiliating invasions of privacy accounts for specific constraints and requirements contained in the Fourth Amendment. The sense of outrage associated with these so-called "no-knock" break-in raids remained constant until very recently.

I can remember a time in America when break-in raids were an extraordinary and newsworthy occurrence which invariably involved extremely dangerous criminals. Back in the 1950s and beyond magistrates were sensitive to public opinion and were concerned with political ramifications, so issuing a warrant to break into someone's home in the middle of the night called for unusually demanding circumstances. But as a direct result of the ill-advised and wholly counterproductive War On Drugs that constraint no longer operates.

Today, "no-knock" break-ins take place more than 20,000 times a year and the number regularly increases. 20,000 divided by 365 means about 55 break-ins took place yesterday and 55 more will happen today, but except for some extremely unusual circumstance we won't see, hear or read about any of it. In many examples the useless goons who carry out these raids get all dressed up in their SWAT costumes, including balaclava masks and exotic leg-strap pistol holsters, kick in the door of some insignificant, non-violent, hapless individual whom they have cause to suspect of marijuana possession, ransack his meager belongings and terrorize his family.

The alarming rise in the frequency of break-ins plainly suggests the enforcement apparatus of government isn't very concerned with how We the People feel about the practice. By itself, that rather annoying fact does not suggest the emergence of a police state. But when we consider the recent militarization of our civilian police, our outlandish national prison census, and the rise of the law-enforcement and prison industrial complexes -- it does tend to make one think.

 

[Pogo]

Incredible. Although to anyone who's been paying any attention at all, not a surprise.

Some indication of how frequent this bullshit goes on is indicated by the number of related stories that come up on YouTube after the video plays. This is one of them --- a woman groped by a court officer who then gets arrested for "allegations against a police officer".

​

--- and the judge -- female judge --- ignores the whole thing.

This is a fucked up world.

It's not the whole world. There are places in the world where the police do not behave this way toward citizens who do not deserve it.

I have no problem with police brutality -- provided the individuals who are brutalized provoke it and deserve it. But what we are seeing is a significant rise in the occurrence and nature of wholly unnecessary and excessive police misconduct and un-Constitutional actions against ordinary citizens.

I meant "world" metaphorically, not literally.

Can't agree with the next sentence though. I do have a problem with police brutality -- no one "deserves" brutality. Let us not lose the basis point, that of a police culture that sets itself up as a warrior caste and persecutes its own citizenry as often as it acts against the criminal element it's designed to be acting against. That much is obvious.

 

[Pogo]

"Concerned About The Emerging Police State?"

No – because there is no ‘police state,’ ‘emerging’ or otherwise, the thread premise fails as a slippery slope fallacy.

The notion is paranoid, delusional nonsense, exhibiting ignorance as to what a police state actually is; or it’s willful ignorance pursuant to demagoguery.

It also exhibits ignorance as to 4th and 5th Amendment jurisprudence concerning search and seizure, police detention, and the mechanics of due process and the relationship between government and those governed with regard to citizens’ Constitutional rights.

Moreover, anecdotal incidents regarding police misconduct are not ‘evidence’ in support of an ‘emerging police state,’ nor are they ‘evidence’ of citizens’ rights being ‘violated’ until such time as a neutral magistrate determines otherwise.

Last, this very thread is itself proof there is no ‘police state’ – in a police state this forum would not exist, and posting videos of police misconduct would not be allowed.

Whoa dude ---- what planet have you been living on? "Paranoid delusional nonsense", really? We could keep you up all night, literally, with case after case after case of egregious police brutality against innocent citizens who did absolutely nothing, just for a power trip. We ignore that at our peril.

 

[Pogo]

Police State?

Five Police Officers Killed Across Country This Week

AND, let us not forget:

"THANK YOU", "President" Obama!

What does Obama have to do with the kind of excessive, unnecessary violations of the Constitution described in the YouTube videos and the Cato Institute report?

That post was a head scratcher. Made no sense whatsoever. But Henry's got this .... obsession.

 

[Pogo]

I'm all for a temporary police state if it would raid the 75 mosques found to preach hate and advocate sharia, then strip them of any citizenship and drop them off in some Islamic country, without the benefit of parachutes.

And what do you do about the First Amendment?

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

I'm all for a temporary police state if it would raid the 75 mosques found to preach hate and advocate sharia, then strip them of any citizenship and drop them off in some Islamic country, without the benefit of parachutes.

And what do you do about the First Amendment?

Amend it.

 

[rcfieldz]

Does the Op have a warrant out for his arrest?

 

[Pogo]

I'm all for a temporary police state if it would raid the 75 mosques found to preach hate and advocate sharia, then strip them of any citizenship and drop them off in some Islamic country, without the benefit of parachutes.

And what do you do about the First Amendment?

Amend it.

You get right on that Sparkles. You'll need 38 of the 57 states to ratify the most basic Liberalist building block of this Republic.
Enjoy the agony of defeat.

 

[MikeK]

[...]
Can't agree with the next sentence though. I do have a problem with police brutality -- no one "deserves" brutality. Let us not lose the basis point, that of a police culture that sets itself up as a warrior caste and persecutes its own citizenry as often as it acts against the criminal element it's designed to be acting against. That much is obvious.

Perhaps brutality was a poor choice of words on my part and you are quite correct in your response. So allow me to be a bit more specific in that thought.

I do not approve of unnecessary, sadistic physical abuse. If you watch COPS you frequently will see a passive subject of arrest, someone who is totally submissive, hands raised and fully compliant, aggressively grabbed and forcefully slammed to the ground, several cops yanking at his limbs, a knee grinding his face into the dirt or onto the pavement. This is unnecessary, sadistic physical abuse and the right word for it is brutality.

However, in the example of one for whom there plainly is cause for arrest but is offensively belligerent and defiantly aggressive, I have no problem with such an individual being handled brutally.

Do you agree or disagree with that revision?