Conservatism 101

[Boss]

or... Conservatism For Dummies. (take your pick)

I decided it's time for a little education on what Conservatism is. We seem to have lost the meaning in all the hype and hyperbole of the left as well as some of the so-called alt-right. Many people are unclear on what it means to be a Conservative because the PR department of Conservatism has been woefully lacking the past several decades in America. Therefore, Conservatism has been loosely defined by various individuals in ways that may or may not be completely accurate. This thread is intended to straighten out some misconceptions and misnomers on the subject.

First and foremost, Conservatism is not an ideology, it is a philosophy. Under the philosophy of Conservatism a great many ideologies tend to flourish. We will attempt to go through the most prevalent ones but for now, understand that Conservatism defined any other way than a philosophy is incorrect rhetoric. This is an intentional slight perpetrated by leftist ideologues for the most part. They find it difficult to compete with Conservatism on a philosophical basis so they attempt to adorn it with all sorts of false pretense in order to juxtapose their preferred ideology against a less desirable one. Just remember, any time someone attempts to tell you what Conservatives believe or don't believe, they are not being honest. A Conservative can believe or disbelieve a host of things.

To illustrate this point, the libertarian ideologue can identify as a Conservative as well as the evangelical Social Conservative, yet they believe in completely different ideologies. You can have neo-conservative ideologues who believe in interventionist policies and isolationist conservatives who believe in the polar opposite. You often hear people say they are socially liberal but fiscally conservative. So we can see the philosophy of Conservatism takes many forms. But what IS a Conservative then?

To put this in the simplest perspective, Conservatism is the alternative moderate philosophy to radical extremism. A radical extremist philosophy is more consistent with the ideologies of Progressivism and Liberalism. These ideologies depend on radical/extremist philosophy in order to successfully push against the authority, to rebel against the status quo. Conservative philosophy is more pragmatic and measured, steeped in reason and historical experience. Conservatives typically adhere to a more measured approach to problem solving, where things are done in slight degrees rather than radically changed. This is because we've learned that small changes are adapted best and radical changes generally come with unintended and often undesirable consequences. For a society where there are many disparate groups and viewpoints, small changes are best. Whenever an idea does produce unintended consequences, it is far easier to deal with when the approach has been moderate rather than radical. Look at the health care debacle for a classic example of this in practice.

 

[Moonglow]

Well you did ok until you forgot that liberalism is a philosophy also...and then you attempt to pigeon hole a philosophy...

 

[whitehall]

The definition of liberalism has been turned upside down. Today's liberals aren't liberal, they are a hodge podge of socialists and angry totalitarians. Look at colleges and universities. Under alleged liberal thinking they have been turned into closed minded institutions where certain books are banned, certain arguments are forbidden and a list of words cannot be uttered. Any opinion except the party line will guarantee a flunking grade. Every high profile conservative speaker has been a victim of assault on a college campus sometime or several times in his/her career. Liberalism has morphed into tyranny in the political world also. JFK would have been laughed off the stage during his inaugural address if he said "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". There isn't a single reasonable pro life democrat in congress because the party doesn't allow free thinking. The last democrat politician who bucked the party line was Joe Lieberman and they kicked him out even though he had been the V.P. nominee.

 

[PurpleOwl]

How about we just use the dictionary, instead of twisting the definition of words to fit our shitty arguments?

 

[Iceweasel]

How about we just use the dictionary, instead of twisting the definition of words to fit our shitty arguments?

The problem is that liberals do not fit the dictionary term. At all. Liberals lie about who and what they are. They manipulate language to move the goal posts.

 

[Mac1958]

Ideology
[ahy-dee-ol-uh-jee, id-ee-]
noun, plural ideologies.

1. the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.

2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation.

=====

Of course conservatism is an ideology, just as liberalism is.

And the whacked-out ideologues on both ends are tearing this country apart.
.

 

[Boss]

Well you did ok until you forgot that liberalism is a philosophy also...and then you attempt to pigeon hole a philosophy...

Modern liberalism is not a philosophy, it is an ideology. Bill Clinton, for example, was a liberal ideologue with Conservative philosophy. Some on the right might take exception with that observation but is you examine his policies and platforms, he was fairly consistent with Conservative philosophy while supporting a liberal ideology.

 

[Boss]

How about we just use the dictionary, instead of twisting the definition of words to fit our shitty arguments?

Okay...

conservatism
Etymology
From Latin conservare ‎(“to conserve; to keep, guard, observe”).
Noun
conservatism ‎(plural conservatisms)

1. A political philosophy that advocates traditional values.
2. A risk-averse attitude or approach.

 

[PurpleOwl]

How about we just use the dictionary, instead of twisting the definition of words to fit our shitty arguments?

The problem is that liberals do not fit the dictionary term. At all. Liberals lie about who and what they are. They manipulate language to move the goal posts.

yeah because the liberal jews own the dictionary... I forgot

 

[Boss]

Ideology
[ahy-dee-ol-uh-jee, id-ee-]
noun, plural ideologies.

1. the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.

2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation.

=====

Of course conservatism is an ideology, just as liberalism is.

And the whacked-out ideologues on both ends are tearing this country apart.
.

But that doesn't define Conservatism. As I said in the OP, you have libertarian conservatives, social conservatives, neoconservatives... all believe different ideological things but all identify as Conservative. There is not one "body of doctrine" when it comes to Conservatism.

 

[Little-Acorn]

You never did get around to saying what conservatives believe, only that they thought we should make small changes instead of big ones. Note that this is mostly what modern liberalism has done, only occasionally stumbling into big changes (Obamacare etc.), which have usually gotten them booted out of office.

Conservatism is the idea that government shouldn't do much beyond basic protection of our rights... and that those right do NOT include health care, employment, regulating our toilets and light bulbs, or even forcing people into a "safety net". When someone attacks us or threatens to, government becomes much bigger to defend us from them. But aside from that, government should be relatively small, and stay that way.

National defense, foreign relations, setting standards, coining money, running nationwide courts, and other such functions are what the Federal government should confine itself to. Basically, things that protect our fundamental rights, are vital to our wellbeing, and that CANNOT be carried out by states or lower government.

Modern liberals will point to someone who's having a tough time, can't provide food for his family, can't pay a medical bill etc., and somehow jump to the conclusion that our central government should be the one helping him (actually forcing other taxpayers to help him). They are wrong, of course. Since the only things government is capable of, is punishing and restricting its citizens, it should do as little as possible, and leave "The states and the people" to take care of the rest (also known as "living their lives"), either individually or by forming groups (companies, charities etc.) to do things.

 

[Iceweasel]

How about we just use the dictionary, instead of twisting the definition of words to fit our shitty arguments?

The problem is that liberals do not fit the dictionary term. At all. Liberals lie about who and what they are. They manipulate language to move the goal posts.

yeah because the liberal jews own the dictionary... I forgot

Jews? Liberals do not fit the definition. They (you) are highly intolerant of differing points of view, for example. Disagree with a liberal and you are evil.

 

[PurpleOwl]

How about we just use the dictionary, instead of twisting the definition of words to fit our shitty arguments?

The problem is that liberals do not fit the dictionary term. At all. Liberals lie about who and what they are. They manipulate language to move the goal posts.

yeah because the liberal jews own the dictionary... I forgot

Jews? Liberals do not fit the definition. They (you) are highly intolerant of differing points of view, for example. Disagree with a liberal and you are evil.

so who changed the dictionary to hurt the white man? was it the muslims?

 

[Boss]

You never did get around to saying what conservatives believe, only that they thought we should make small changes instead of big ones.

Nope. I told you that whenever someone tells you what a Conservative believes or doesn't believe, they are not being honest. So you wanted me to then contradict my own point and be dishonest?

Conservatives cannot be confined to a particular ideological perspective and that was my entire point. Conservatism is an overarching philosophy which can include MANY ideologies.

 

[Mac1958]

Ideology
[ahy-dee-ol-uh-jee, id-ee-]
noun, plural ideologies.

1. the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.

2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation.

=====

Of course conservatism is an ideology, just as liberalism is.

And the whacked-out ideologues on both ends are tearing this country apart.
.

But that doesn't define Conservatism. As I said in the OP, you have libertarian conservatives, social conservatives, neoconservatives... all believe different ideological things but all identify as Conservative. There is not one "body of doctrine" when it comes to Conservatism.

It doesn't define conservatism because it's not the definition of conservatism.

Conservatism and liberalism are simply examples of ideologies. Religion would be another.
.

 

[Boss]

Ideology
[ahy-dee-ol-uh-jee, id-ee-]
noun, plural ideologies.

1. the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.

2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation.

=====

Of course conservatism is an ideology, just as liberalism is.

And the whacked-out ideologues on both ends are tearing this country apart.
.

But that doesn't define Conservatism. As I said in the OP, you have libertarian conservatives, social conservatives, neoconservatives... all believe different ideological things but all identify as Conservative. There is not one "body of doctrine" when it comes to Conservatism.

It doesn't define conservatism because it's not the definition of conservatism.

Conservatism and liberalism are simply examples of ideologies. Religion would be another.
.

Well, if Conservative doesn't fit the definition of an Ideology it's NOT an ideology. That's pretty basic.

 

[Boss]

Conservatism and liberalism are simply examples of ideologies. Religion would be another.

Well, no... they're not and the OP explains that. Religion would be an example of an ideology but not Conservatism. We're discussing Conservatism here, not Religion.

 

[Little-Acorn]

How about we just use the dictionary, instead of twisting the definition of words to fit our shitty arguments?

conservatism
Etymology
From Latin conservare ‎(“to conserve; to keep, guard, observe”).
Noun
conservatism ‎(plural conservatisms)A political philosophy that advocates traditional values.

1. A risk-averse attitude or approach.

As you see, today's Conservatism has nothing to do with what you find in dictionaries. "Conservative" was a pejorative applied to small-govt advocates by big-govt pushers a long time ago, to pretend they were something they weren't. Back when govt was mostly small and its advocates wanted it to stay small, the big-govt pushers tried to pretend they wanted that because they were somehow "afraid of change". When in fact they simply realized that small govt was better, and they wanted what was best.

If prevailing govt had been big and overcontrolling, they would have wanted major, radical change, to a small, limited govt. They wouldn't have wanted to "conserve" anything. Note that this is the situation today. Liberals want govt to stay huge and overbearing, while conservatives want major changes from what it is now.

It's a typical liberal tactic, to keep telling a lie over and over until it became so common it made its way into dictionaries... and then insist we go by the dictionary.

 

[Boss]

so who changed the dictionary to hurt the white man? was it the muslims?

How about shutting up and addressing post #8 where I presented the definition?

 

[Little-Acorn]

Conservatism (misnamed) is the idea that govt should mostly mind its own business and not try to run our lives.

"Its own business" is a set of things that "The states and the people" cannot handle, having mostly to do with people not interfering with each other in undesired ways.

 

[Mac1958]

Conservatism and liberalism are simply examples of ideologies. Religion would be another.

Well, no... they're not and the OP explains that. Religion would be an example of an ideology but not Conservatism. We're discussing Conservatism here, not Religion.

I disagree with the OP, which is not fact, but opinion.

The behaviors of conservatives and liberals are so similar, their adherence to their ideologies so consistent and predictable, that they are simply opposite sides of the same coin in many respects.

We can pretend that conservatism is not an ideology, sure. We can pretend that liberalism isn't, too. But that's just semantics, trying to raise one above the other.
.