Corporate welfare in action ....

[JoeNormal]

No doubt, proponents of Enterprise Florida will argue it's necessary to create jobs, but the facts tell another story. They argue that being pro-business is being pro-free-market. It isn't the same.

Americans for Prosperity advocates for the free market to ensure that government treats everyone with fairness and fosters a level playing field — an environment where businesses focus on their customers, rather than a government that picks winners and losers.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cut-off-enterprise-florida-end-corporate-welfare-andres-malave

Americans for Prosperity... aka a Koch Brothers scheme to get shmucks to vote against their own best interests.

 

[Brain357]

No doubt, proponents of Enterprise Florida will argue it's necessary to create jobs, but the facts tell another story. They argue that being pro-business is being pro-free-market. It isn't the same.

Americans for Prosperity advocates for the free market to ensure that government treats everyone with fairness and fosters a level playing field — an environment where businesses focus on their customers, rather than a government that picks winners and losers.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cut-off-enterprise-florida-end-corporate-welfare-andres-malave

Americans for Prosperity... aka a Koch Brothers scheme to get shmucks to vote against their own best interests. I'd always wondered what kind of a person would buy into it.

You disagree with the free market do you?

 

[JoeNormal]

No doubt, proponents of Enterprise Florida will argue it's necessary to create jobs, but the facts tell another story. They argue that being pro-business is being pro-free-market. It isn't the same.

Americans for Prosperity advocates for the free market to ensure that government treats everyone with fairness and fosters a level playing field — an environment where businesses focus on their customers, rather than a government that picks winners and losers.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cut-off-enterprise-florida-end-corporate-welfare-andres-malave

Americans for Prosperity... aka a Koch Brothers scheme to get shmucks to vote against their own best interests. I'd always wondered what kind of a person would buy into it.

You disagree with the free market do you?

It's hard to disagree with something that's never existed.

 

[Brain357]

Tax payer getting hosed. You don't like capitalism? You think the gov should pick winners and losers?

Tax payer getting hosed.

How? If they develop farmland (not saying they are), and only pay half the developed land property tax rate, that's still more than the farmland tax rate (at least in Illinois)

You don't like capitalism?

Capitalism is awesome!!!

You think the gov should pick winners and losers?

No. Solyndra and "green energy" subsidies are a big waste of actual dollars.

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism. Solyndra is a good example why.

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism.

Absolutely.
Cut the corporate rate to 15%.
End the minimum wage.
End agricultural subsidies.
Lots of things the Federal government should stop doing.

But you are ok with tax payers funding corp moves and expansions?

Funding? No.
I think writing a check to a sports team or buying a stadium for a sports team is a bad idea.
Giving a new facility a lower property tax for a limited time is fine.
More if the tax receipts, even at the lower rate, are higher than the unimproved land tax receipts.

I guess the company has a bad business model and needs to be propped up with tax incentive?

 

[Aries]

IF corporate welfare created a living wage, we wouldn't need social welfare.



Alas, the greedy Ceos just pocket the money and leave their workers for the department of social serves to support. Shocker.

If not for the corporations providing low paying jobs, there wouldn't be any, and everyone would be on full benefits.

They are able spare a living wage. They don't want to and they don't care. The owners of Wal-Mart are making a killing and a high number of their employees don't make enough to make ends meet. They can pay people more, they don't. And it's not right.

If you understood anything about how business works, you would understand why they don't.

One of the key elements in business is investors. You attract investors by providing them with growth. The greater the growth, the more investors you get.

So you overpay all your workers, and then the growth of your company goes down. Your investors start dumping your stock and you have less money to invest in your business. Your former investors will buy the stock of your competitors, and then you are screwed.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I have ran a business before and that explanation was trash. Paying a living wage isn't "overpaying" .... "underpaying" people brings us to people working 40 hours a week and still needing government assistance. Totally unacceptable to me.

I believe all civilized societies need some sort of safety net for our disabled, sick, mentally ill etc. But when people are working 40 hours a week, in the richest country in the world, and can't make rent THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG!

Paying a living wage isn't "overpaying" ....

What's a "living wage"?
How do you know?
Show your math.

I believe all civilized societies need some sort of safety net for our disabled, sick, mentally ill etc.

Federal Government transfer payments in the US are currently over $2 trillion a year.

How do I know? It's my job to know... here's the math.

Minimum wage worker brings in around 1200 per month. Standard rental price for 2 bedroom is 800 a month (in my area) that leaves them 400 dollars. Plus utilities, 150 (at least) now they have 200. They pay 150 for a car payment/insurance (cheap) now theyre left with 50 for 4 weeks.. what about food what about phone bills what about the KIDS what about paying for an education what about health insurance???


If republicans weren't funneling all our money to the top 1% for the last 5 decades we would not need nearly the amount of social welfare that we use today. If the republicans didn't fight tooth and nail every time a bill came up to raise minimum wage we wouldn't need nearly the amount of social welfare we use today.
Gop is so "against" handouts. But they just can't help wanting the rich richer and the poor poorer.

 

[Brain357]

No doubt, proponents of Enterprise Florida will argue it's necessary to create jobs, but the facts tell another story. They argue that being pro-business is being pro-free-market. It isn't the same.

Americans for Prosperity advocates for the free market to ensure that government treats everyone with fairness and fosters a level playing field — an environment where businesses focus on their customers, rather than a government that picks winners and losers.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cut-off-enterprise-florida-end-corporate-welfare-andres-malave

Americans for Prosperity... aka a Koch Brothers scheme to get shmucks to vote against their own best interests. I'd always wondered what kind of a person would buy into it.

You disagree with the free market do you?

It's hard to disagree with something that's never existed.

It is hard to find now.

 

[jc456]

what exactly is free money?

If the tax credits exceed the amount of taxes due in a given year, the corporation can actually receive a refund from the state.

did they?

Should the gov be giving away tax dollars like that?

why not? every person working at the facility will be paying taxes. so there is a big gain to the state and the country. not sure you get it yet.

Well it is anti capitalism and free market. You think gov picking winners and losers is better than free market?

You like higher taxes? Company moves or expands paid by tax payers. Tax payer loses.

well why do states care that a business come to their state then? especially when the state says, we'll give you this kind of deal? you think it's because they would lose money? you can't be that stupid can you?

 

[Brain357]

If the tax credits exceed the amount of taxes due in a given year, the corporation can actually receive a refund from the state.

did they?

Should the gov be giving away tax dollars like that?

why not? every person working at the facility will be paying taxes. so there is a big gain to the state and the country. not sure you get it yet.

Well it is anti capitalism and free market. You think gov picking winners and losers is better than free market?

You like higher taxes? Company moves or expands paid by tax payers. Tax payer loses.

well why do states care that a business come to their state then? especially when the state says, we'll give you this kind of deal? you think it's because they would lose money? you can't be that stupid can you?

It seems you are that stupid. Company gets great deal. Politician says look at all these great jobs. Tax payer gets hosed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

An employer does all that, huh? I guess the worker is in no way responsible. After all, if your highest talent is stocking shelves, it should at least pay $22.00 an hour not because the work is worth it, but because it's the right thing to do. And as we know, people don't start businesses to make a profit, they start businesses as a social obligation.

Any American working 40 hours a week should be making a living wage. Period. If you think otherwise you're a POS.

People can't survive off 10 an hour in most places, living costs are too high!!

Then to solution is to make your labor more valuable, not forcing your employer to pay you more than your labor is worth.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The value of the labor should be adjusting in accordance to the cost of living. It's not.. And it won't without proper legislation. Why would employers pay more than necessary. Most won't.

The 1% is literally draining all of the countries money, and they have been for decades.wealth inequality is worse than I've seen in my lifetime. The middle class is shrinking and ill let you in on a little secret... They arent joining the billionaires, they're joining the impoverished.

But you guys just keep bashing the workers....
(That's what the TOP 1% needs us to do, point the finger at each other and not at them)

The value of the labor should be adjusting in accordance to the cost of living.

Why?

Seriously? So we don't have rampant poverty..

If living costs continue to raise and wages don't more and more people continually fall under the federal poverty level...
It's not rocket science.

"Why?"
Do you hate America?

Seriously?

Seriously.

So we don't have rampant poverty..

Getting low skilled Americans laid off isn't going to reduce poverty.

If living costs continue to raise and wages don't

Wages after inflation are rising.
Maybe not for low skilled workers who compete with millions of low skilled illegal aliens.

more and more people continually fall under the federal poverty level...

I agree, boot the illegals if you want wages to rise.

Do you hate America?

No. I hate the economic idiocy coming from the left.

 

[jc456]

Toyota's recent decision to move 4,000 jobs from California and Kentucky to Texas is a prime example of this nonsense. Texas governor Rick Perry – who, by the way, isn't fooling anyone with those glasses – boasted that it was his state's pro-business policies that allowed him to nab those jobs from California and Kentucky. But by pro-business policies, what Perry really means is that he paid Toyota $10,000 for each jobfor a total of $40 million in tax breaks and money incentives. And that's on top of the millions from the city of Plano in property tax abatements, cash incentives, and waivers on construction fees.

The numbers are depressingly simple. The net gain of jobs for the country is zero; the corporation is just moving jobs from one place to another. California and Kentucky lose thousands of jobs and a significant source of tax revenue. That's less money for California and Kentucky schools, roads, health care, etc. The people of Texas aren't really gaining all that much. In most cases, the current Toyota employees will just relocate making any increase in employment for Texas minimal. The Texas government has given away a huge amount of public funds. They also lose all of the potential tax dollars they would have received if, for instance, a group of small businesses developed the land in Plano.

Republicans love welfare...for corporations

California and Kentucky lose thousands of jobs and a significant source of tax revenue.

Corporations provide jobs and tax revenue?
That could encourage states to try to attract them with temporary tax abatements. Shhhhhhh.......

The Texas government has given away a huge amount of public funds.

Wrote them a check? Link?

Tax payer getting hosed. You don't like capitalism? You think the gov should pick winners and losers?

Tax payer getting hosed.

How? If they develop farmland (not saying they are), and only pay half the developed land property tax rate, that's still more than the farmland tax rate (at least in Illinois)

You don't like capitalism?

Capitalism is awesome!!!

You think the gov should pick winners and losers?

No. Solyndra and "green energy" subsidies are a big waste of actual dollars.

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism. Solyndra is a good example why.

well that was actual money handed to them to invest to which they lost. bad investment, don't you think? yes, I think the government should stop handing out money in subsidies yes. to anyone

 

[JoeNormal]

No doubt, proponents of Enterprise Florida will argue it's necessary to create jobs, but the facts tell another story. They argue that being pro-business is being pro-free-market. It isn't the same.

Americans for Prosperity advocates for the free market to ensure that government treats everyone with fairness and fosters a level playing field — an environment where businesses focus on their customers, rather than a government that picks winners and losers.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cut-off-enterprise-florida-end-corporate-welfare-andres-malave

Americans for Prosperity... aka a Koch Brothers scheme to get shmucks to vote against their own best interests. I'd always wondered what kind of a person would buy into it.

You disagree with the free market do you?

It's hard to disagree with something that's never existed.

It is hard to find now.

I can't think of a time when the already-rich or well-connected didn't exert influence over markets using whatever means available to them. Could be in the form of government influence, legal wrangling, 'buying the market', assimilating the competition or innumerable other strategies.

 

[Aries]

Any American working 40 hours a week should be making a living wage. Period. If you think otherwise you're a POS.

People can't survive off 10 an hour in most places, living costs are too high!!

Then to solution is to make your labor more valuable, not forcing your employer to pay you more than your labor is worth.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The value of the labor should be adjusting in accordance to the cost of living. It's not.. And it won't without proper legislation. Why would employers pay more than necessary. Most won't.

The 1% is literally draining all of the countries money, and they have been for decades.wealth inequality is worse than I've seen in my lifetime. The middle class is shrinking and ill let you in on a little secret... They arent joining the billionaires, they're joining the impoverished.

But you guys just keep bashing the workers....
(That's what the TOP 1% needs us to do, point the finger at each other and not at them)

The value of the labor should be adjusting in accordance to the cost of living.

Why?

Seriously? So we don't have rampant poverty..

If living costs continue to raise and wages don't more and more people continually fall under the federal poverty level...
It's not rocket science.

"Why?"
Do you hate America?

Seriously?

Seriously.

So we don't have rampant poverty..

Getting low skilled Americans laid off isn't going to reduce poverty.

If living costs continue to raise and wages don't

Wages after inflation are rising.
Maybe not for low skilled workers who compete with millions of low skilled illegal aliens.

more and more people continually fall under the federal poverty level...

I agree, boot the illegals if you want wages to rise.

Do you hate America?

No. I hate the economic idiocy coming from the left.

Oxy-moron. Dems always do better for the economy than the gop, history shows us.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tax payer getting hosed.

How? If they develop farmland (not saying they are), and only pay half the developed land property tax rate, that's still more than the farmland tax rate (at least in Illinois)

You don't like capitalism?

Capitalism is awesome!!!

You think the gov should pick winners and losers?

No. Solyndra and "green energy" subsidies are a big waste of actual dollars.

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism. Solyndra is a good example why.

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism.

Absolutely.
Cut the corporate rate to 15%.
End the minimum wage.
End agricultural subsidies.
Lots of things the Federal government should stop doing.

But you are ok with tax payers funding corp moves and expansions?

Funding? No.
I think writing a check to a sports team or buying a stadium for a sports team is a bad idea.
Giving a new facility a lower property tax for a limited time is fine.
More if the tax receipts, even at the lower rate, are higher than the unimproved land tax receipts.

So you do want the gov picking winners and losers. So those doing the most lobbying get breaks. Tax payers lose.

So you do want the gov picking winners and losers.

Giving a temporary low property tax rate on new facilities isn't picking winners and losers.

Tax payers lose.

If the new facility provides higher revenues, now or in the future, they don't lose.

 

[Brain357]

If the tax credits exceed the amount of taxes due in a given year, the corporation can actually receive a refund from the state.

did they?

Should the gov be giving away tax dollars like that?

why not? every person working at the facility will be paying taxes. so there is a big gain to the state and the country. not sure you get it yet.

Well it is anti capitalism and free market. You think gov picking winners and losers is better than free market?

You like higher taxes? Company moves or expands paid by tax payers. Tax payer loses.

well why do states care that a business come to their state then? especially when the state says, we'll give you this kind of deal? you think it's because they would lose money? you can't be that stupid can you?

In addition to these deals, Florida taxpayers “paid out at least $37.9 million to six unnamed companies for 3,600 jobs that never materialized.” Scott’s agency is refusing to disclose the companies, but said it is renegotiating their contracts “so that the incentive payments are in accordance with the company’s performance.”

Florida Taxpayers Provide $1.7 Billion In Corporate Welfare, Get Few Jobs In Return

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tax payer getting hosed.

How? If they develop farmland (not saying they are), and only pay half the developed land property tax rate, that's still more than the farmland tax rate (at least in Illinois)

You don't like capitalism?

Capitalism is awesome!!!

You think the gov should pick winners and losers?

No. Solyndra and "green energy" subsidies are a big waste of actual dollars.

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism. Solyndra is a good example why.

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism.

Absolutely.
Cut the corporate rate to 15%.
End the minimum wage.
End agricultural subsidies.
Lots of things the Federal government should stop doing.

But you are ok with tax payers funding corp moves and expansions?

Funding? No.
I think writing a check to a sports team or buying a stadium for a sports team is a bad idea.
Giving a new facility a lower property tax for a limited time is fine.
More if the tax receipts, even at the lower rate, are higher than the unimproved land tax receipts.

I guess the company has a bad business model and needs to be propped up with tax incentive?

Or not.

 

[Brain357]

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism. Solyndra is a good example why.

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism.

Absolutely.
Cut the corporate rate to 15%.
End the minimum wage.
End agricultural subsidies.
Lots of things the Federal government should stop doing.

But you are ok with tax payers funding corp moves and expansions?

Funding? No.
I think writing a check to a sports team or buying a stadium for a sports team is a bad idea.
Giving a new facility a lower property tax for a limited time is fine.
More if the tax receipts, even at the lower rate, are higher than the unimproved land tax receipts.

So you do want the gov picking winners and losers. So those doing the most lobbying get breaks. Tax payers lose.

So you do want the gov picking winners and losers.

Giving a temporary low property tax rate on new facilities isn't picking winners and losers.

Tax payers lose.

If the new facility provides higher revenues, now or in the future, they don't lose.

It is if only certain companies get deals.

If never seems to happen.

 

[Brain357]

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism. Solyndra is a good example why.

So then you know gov should stay out of capitalism.

Absolutely.
Cut the corporate rate to 15%.
End the minimum wage.
End agricultural subsidies.
Lots of things the Federal government should stop doing.

But you are ok with tax payers funding corp moves and expansions?

Funding? No.
I think writing a check to a sports team or buying a stadium for a sports team is a bad idea.
Giving a new facility a lower property tax for a limited time is fine.
More if the tax receipts, even at the lower rate, are higher than the unimproved land tax receipts.

I guess the company has a bad business model and needs to be propped up with tax incentive?

Or not.

Or not? Why else give them tax deal? If they can afford it why should the tax payer pay?

 

[Brain357]

Drain the swamp? The swamp is making these deals and hosing the tax payer!

 

[jc456]

did they?

Should the gov be giving away tax dollars like that?

why not? every person working at the facility will be paying taxes. so there is a big gain to the state and the country. not sure you get it yet.

Well it is anti capitalism and free market. You think gov picking winners and losers is better than free market?

You like higher taxes? Company moves or expands paid by tax payers. Tax payer loses.

well why do states care that a business come to their state then? especially when the state says, we'll give you this kind of deal? you think it's because they would lose money? you can't be that stupid can you?

It seems you are that stupid. Company gets great deal. Politician says look at all these great jobs. Tax payer gets hosed.

how does the tax payer get hosed?

Don't be stupid now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If not for the corporations providing low paying jobs, there wouldn't be any, and everyone would be on full benefits.

They are able spare a living wage. They don't want to and they don't care. The owners of Wal-Mart are making a killing and a high number of their employees don't make enough to make ends meet. They can pay people more, they don't. And it's not right.

If you understood anything about how business works, you would understand why they don't.

One of the key elements in business is investors. You attract investors by providing them with growth. The greater the growth, the more investors you get.

So you overpay all your workers, and then the growth of your company goes down. Your investors start dumping your stock and you have less money to invest in your business. Your former investors will buy the stock of your competitors, and then you are screwed.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I have ran a business before and that explanation was trash. Paying a living wage isn't "overpaying" .... "underpaying" people brings us to people working 40 hours a week and still needing government assistance. Totally unacceptable to me.

I believe all civilized societies need some sort of safety net for our disabled, sick, mentally ill etc. But when people are working 40 hours a week, in the richest country in the world, and can't make rent THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG!

Paying a living wage isn't "overpaying" ....

What's a "living wage"?
How do you know?
Show your math.

I believe all civilized societies need some sort of safety net for our disabled, sick, mentally ill etc.

Federal Government transfer payments in the US are currently over $2 trillion a year.

How do I know? It's my job to know... here's the math.

Minimum wage worker brings in around 1200 per month. Standard rental price for 2 bedroom is 800 a month (in my area) that leaves them 400 dollars. Plus utilities, 150 (at least) now they have 200. They pay 150 for a car payment/insurance (cheap) now theyre left with 50 for 4 weeks.. what about food what about phone bills what about the KIDS what about paying for an education what about health insurance???


If republicans weren't funneling all our money to the top 1% for the last 5 decades we would not need nearly the amount of social welfare that we use today. If the republicans didn't fight tooth and nail every time a bill came up to raise minimum wage we wouldn't need nearly the amount of social welfare we use today.
Gop is so "against" handouts. But they just can't help wanting the rich richer and the poor poorer.

How do I know? It's my job to know...

What's your job?

Minimum wage worker brings in around 1200 per month. Standard rental price for 2 bedroom is 800 a month (in my area) that leaves them 400 dollars. Plus utilities, 150 (at least) now they have 200. They pay 150 for a car payment/insurance (cheap) now theyre left with 50 for 4 weeks.. what about food what about phone bills what about the KIDS what about paying for an education what about health insurance???

Thanks for the numbers!
Now idiotic government bureaucrats decide that worker needs $1600 per month (to start) because...living wage!!

The worker doesn't add enough value to justify a $1600 per month wage. Company eliminates his position.

Now what?

we would not need nearly the amount of social welfare that we use today.

That's awful!!! Does the worker who got laid off need more social welfare now, or less?