Criminal Charges in Death of Boy Who Shot Himself at Gun Show

[Gunny]

The NRA makes sure that guns are available to as many people as possible, so they can shoot themselves and their aquaintances.

It's a public service.

You're an idiot. I learned tonight that morons are too smart for you.

 

[Gunny]

The NRA isn't to blame here. It's the dumbfuck who allowed an 8 year old to handle a loaded Uzi!

Exactly.

 

[tigerbob]

I don't think there's anything wrong with an 8 year old shooting a gun, but someone needs to show them how things work and they should be closely supervised if they are beginners. I learned how to shoot when I was a kid and I never did anything unsafe with a gun. If you're taught properly you simply don't do stupid stuff. I never shot anything that wasn't either made of paper or destined for the dinner table.

First rule when handing anyone a gun is to check it. Under any circumstances.

 

[Gunny]

I so hate that analogy. It seems to me that anyone who uses it does so in full knowledge of the fact that it's complete bollocks but it's the closest they can get to making a comparison between guns (use of which they want to defend) and something everyday.

The same could be said about a knife. Or a fork. Or a kettle. Or a toaster. All of these, in incompetent or uneducated hands, could be dangerous.

So, let's compare a gun with a toaster shall we, because that's no different to comparing it to a car.

Whether "something" is everyday or not is irrelevant. Perhaps these people handle guns every day? You are correct that the same could be said about anything when used improperly or an accident occurs.

Automobiles are no more necessary to human existence than firearms. Walk. Ride a bike. Ride a horse.

The fact is, someone put a loaded, fully-automatic weapon in the hands of a 9 years old and did not provide hands on supervisions; which, under the circumstances is a no-brainer. That would make the dealer and irresponsible dealer and the parent an irresponsible parent.

The NRA stresses RESPONSIBLE gun ownership and use. So does any other gun owner with a lick of sense in their heads. When I took my daughters out and taught them to shoot, they were drilled in handling the weapon for months before I did, and the first couple of times my hand was on the weapon and it was .22 LR automatic pistol, something a kid can handle.

And I see parents at the range doing the same all the time. Like anything else someone's against, it appears the exception wants to be sold as the rule. These people screwed up and they deserve to charged for it.

 

[tigerbob]

Whether "something" is everyday or not is irrelevant. Perhaps these people handle guns every day? You are correct that the same could be said about anything when used improperly or an accident occurs.

Automobiles are no more necessary to human existence than firearms. Walk. Ride a bike. Ride a horse.

The fact is, someone put a loaded, fully-automatic weapon in the hands of a 9 years old and did not provide hands on supervisions; which, under the circumstances is a no-brainer. That would make the dealer and irresponsible dealer and the parent an irresponsible parent.

The NRA stresses RESPONSIBLE gun ownership and use. So does any other gun owner with a lick of sense in their heads. When I took my daughters out and taught them to shoot, they were drilled in handling the weapon for months before I did, and the first couple of times my hand was on the weapon and it was .22 LR automatic pistol, something a kid can handle.

And I see parents at the range doing the same all the time. Like anything else someone's against, it appears the exception wants to be sold as the rule. These people screwed up and they deserve to charged for it.

I don't disagree with any of that Gunny, and I'm not suggesting that guns should be made illegal (though I have something of a problem with fully auto).

My issue is that here was a kid, surrounded by several people who should have had his safety as their primary concern and who knew guns pretty damn well, and he STILL manages to shoot himself.

The more time people spend around guns, the more relaxed they get around them. This, it is my belief, leads inevitably to a time when, perhaps for just one vital second, their attention is distracted.

I remember being on a shoot in England when a 12 gauge went off as we were walking back to the cars. Some twat who had been shooting for 40 years had inexplicably forgotten to break and clear his shotgun before moving off from the stand. It was one moment's madness in 40 years. As it was, after of few "What the hell do you think you're doing?"s had been hurled his way, and a few weeks had passed, all was fine and he was once again a respected member of the shoot. Could be it only happened once in his life, but imagine if that one time he had shot someone. Then it would have been news. As it is, the incident was probably one of many thousands that year where someone could have been killed through a moment's carelessness over the course of a whole lifetime.

My point is that, if you're going to use a gun, or be responsible for others who are around them, you have to be as careful the ten thousandth time as you were the first time.

The whole "Guns don't kill people" thing is bullshit. Guns do kill, and that is the first, second and third thing people should remember when they are around them. It's not only idiots who allow their kids to pick up a loaded gun. It's also people who have been around guns all their lives and who happen to have a momentary lapse in concentration. It could and, unfortunately, does happen to almost anyone.

 

[tigerbob]

When I took my daughters out and taught them to shoot, they were drilled in handling the weapon for months before I did, and the first couple of times my hand was on the weapon and it was .22 LR automatic pistol, something a kid can handle.

Incidentally, I learned on a .22 as well, when I was 11.

 

[Amanda]

When I took my daughters out and taught them to shoot, they were drilled in handling the weapon for months before I did, and the first couple of times my hand was on the weapon and it was .22 LR automatic pistol, something a kid can handle.

First thing they handed me was a .22 rifle. After I proved I wasn't a complete spaz they let me shoot a Chinese SKS.... what a rush! But shotguns and powerful handgun are too much for me.

 

[DManInAZ]

I so hate that analogy. It seems to me that anyone who uses it does so in full knowledge of the fact that it's complete bollocks but it's the closest they can get to making a comparison between guns (use of which they want to defend) and something everyday.

The same could be said about a knife. Or a fork. Or a kettle. Or a toaster. All of these, in incompetent or uneducated hands, could be dangerous.

So, let's compare a gun with a toaster shall we, because that's no different to comparing it to a car.

My point was not pro nor con about second amendment rights, but about the fact that to blame a group/manufacturer/etc. (NRA, Car Manufacturers, etc.) is moronic to say the least.

Prosecute those who were responsible for the child and the gun. But don't blame many for the actions of a few.

 

[Chris]

1,000,000 Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

Thanks, NRA!

 

[tigerbob]

First thing they handed me was a .22 rifle. After I proved I wasn't a complete spaz they let me shoot a Chinese SKS.... what a rush! But shotguns and powerful handgun are too much for me.

I moved on from .22s to .303s in competition when I was around 13 or 14. Other than that I've shot British Army GPMGs, Browning M2, Sterling and HP MP5 subs and the SA80. The Browning is by far the most powerful.

I've shot 12 gauge shotguns since my early teens. Tried an 8 bore once and it nearly knocked me over!

 

[KittenKoder]

Though I am not going to bother to see who is on what side of the argument, this seems to have become a debate on guns again like so many. So here's all I have to say:

While I don't like guns (personal choice) I really don't see why people are so against them. Most murderers don't use guns. There are millions of other ways to kill someone. Guns ARE just tools and like all tools are dangerous if handled improperly (would you really let a 10 year old hold a power saw, many do). It's still not the leading cause of death (the actual leading cause is and will probably always be automobile 'accidents'). Hell, if I wanted to kill someone I would use bleach and hydrogen-peroxide, it's in almost every house so no need to carry it with you, silent, and often you can get away with it easily. So meh, get rid of all the guns if you want, just leaves room for the true psychos who happen to be smart like me to get away with murder more easily. Blaming the gun only makes it easier for other forms of crimes to be over looked.

 

[KittenKoder]

I moved on from .22s to .303s in competition when I was around 13 or 14. Other than that I've shot British Army GPMGs, Browning M2, Sterling and HP MP5 subs and the SA80. The Browning is by far the most powerful.

I've shot 12 gauge shotguns since my early teens. Tried an 8 bore once and it nearly knocked me over!

Give me a katanika and some cammo any day, oh yes, the smell of the blood is so much purer.

 

[Chris]

U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths

BY CHELSEA J. CARTER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

ATLANTA -- The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found.
The U.S. rate for gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people. Japan had the lowest rate, at .05 per 100,000.
The study, done by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is the first comprehensive international look at gun-related deaths. It was published Thursday in the International Journal of Epidemiology.
The CDC would not speculate why the death rates varied, but other researchers said easy access to guns and society's acceptance of violence are part of the problem in the United States.
``If you have a country saturated with guns -- available to people when they are intoxicated, angry or depressed -- it's not unusual guns will be used more often,'' said Rebecca Peters, a Johns Hopkins University fellow specializing in gun violence. ``This has to be treated as a public health emergency.''
The National Rifle Association called the study shoddy because it failed to examine all causes of violent deaths.
``What this shows is the CDC is after guns. They aren't concerned with violence. It's pretending that no homicide exists unless it's related to guns,'' said Paul Blackman, a research coordinator for the NRA in Fairfax, Va.
The 36 countries chosen were listed as the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, with the highest GNP per capita income.
The study used 1994 statistics supplied by the 36 countries. Of the 88,649 gun deaths reported by all the countries, the United States accounted for 45 percent, said Etienne Krug, a CDC researcher and co-author of the article.
Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and 95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html