Decline of the American Empire?

[Clementine]

No, not being able to learn from history and the comparisons for today is idiocy.

Of course, statists like you wish to believe that their new form of government is somehow new and different from all before it. Their ideology will somehow evade the pitfalls of previous empires.

Pure arrogant Progressive stupidity.

It's because human nature never changes. We will always have those who think they are smarter than all before them and think that they can make something work even though it's failed miserably in the past.

The useful idiots don't understand history, so no way are they going to learn anything from it.

We repeat the same mistakes made in the past and yet the left think the outcome will be different this time. Einstein called that the definition of insanity and he was right.

Immigrants who came here from oppressive countries are seeing the same things that ruined their home countries and we should listen to them. They understand better than most where it will lead.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

For any of you who may be familiar with the decline of the Roman Empire, do you see any parallels to the United States at this point in its history? In my view they are astoundingly similar, from the abandonment of public moral standards to paying off our adversaries (e.g., Iran) as they continue their inexorable encirclement. Is our current political process anything more than a modern version of bread and circuses for the masses?

The only difference I can see is the compression of time from centuries to decades. We became a world-dominant superpower in a fraction of the time it took the Romans. Is there any reason to believe that our decline won't be just as quick?

For anyone with an even passing acquaintance, they're uselessly dissimilar. The primary cause of the decline of the Roman empire was relentless civil wars and the single largest migration of people in recorded history......right through their territory.

We don't see either.

We have never ending wars and millions migrating from the south.

We have nothing like what the Roman's experienced. And it was the *civil* wars that tore the empire apart. With generals trying to make themselves emperor by force fighting the existing emperor or emperor wanna be. With every casualty a Roman. It obliterated entire legions. To destroyed the leadership of entire armies. And it lead to gross instability for centuries.

And the *mexicans?* They are migrant workers. They wash cars, flip burgers, pick tomatoes....and then go home. The Roman's faced massive invading armies in a migration of people unmatched in human history. With most of the roman military at the time of their fall being the very peoples that had invaded them lead by a handful or Roman military officers that had survived the devastating civil wars and plagues.

We have nothing like what they faced.

So you're saying we're not declining?

I'm saying the causes that lead to the Roman Empire's decline have got jack shit to do with the state of our country.

It’s obvious that the conservatives subscribing to this thread never studied the history of Western Civilization, or the history of Rome, for that matter.

 

[Votto]

For anyone with an even passing acquaintance, they're uselessly dissimilar. The primary cause of the decline of the Roman empire was relentless civil wars and the single largest migration of people in recorded history......right through their territory.

We don't see either.

We have never ending wars and millions migrating from the south.

We have nothing like what the Roman's experienced. And it was the *civil* wars that tore the empire apart. With generals trying to make themselves emperor by force fighting the existing emperor or emperor wanna be. With every casualty a Roman. It obliterated entire legions. To destroyed the leadership of entire armies. And it lead to gross instability for centuries.

And the *mexicans?* They are migrant workers. They wash cars, flip burgers, pick tomatoes....and then go home. The Roman's faced massive invading armies in a migration of people unmatched in human history. With most of the roman military at the time of their fall being the very peoples that had invaded them lead by a handful or Roman military officers that had survived the devastating civil wars and plagues.

We have nothing like what they faced.

So you're saying we're not declining?

I'm saying the causes that lead to the Roman Empire's decline have got jack shit to do with the state of our country.

It’s obvious that the conservatives subscribing to this thread never studied the history of Western Civilization, or the history of Rome, for that matter.

How about we delve into some history, shall we?

Plato wrote "The Republic" in which he outlined the perfect society. Essentially he created a society in which a race of masterminds dictated to the worker bees how they should live and how much they should make and what they should think etc. These worker bees would only make enough to survive and be grateful and like it as their earnings were redistributed by the masterminds.

Really it's the same kind of thinking we have with Progressives. They pretend on being a cutting edge ideology when in reality their promises of utopianism is as old as dirt.

To Plato's credit, he had enough sense to know that his utopian vision would never work.

 

[Kondor3]

When do we start throwing Illegal Aliens to the lions, and crucifying Liberals?

 

[Votto]

When do we start throwing Illegal Aliens to the lions, and crucifying Liberals?

If you look at history, you will be able to figure out the illegal alien dilemma as well.

In US history, they used to have what is called indentured servants. People with very few prospects in an economically stagnant Europe sometimes opted to go to American with promises of a better life, if only they would be someone's servant. However, these were often empty promises.

Then when the economy improved in Europe, these servants were hard to find, so they then turned to slavery which was started by the Spanish in the South. For you see, the Spanish needed to replace the native populations which were killed off by diseases they had brought over.

Once slavery was done away with, the never ending pursuit of cheap labor continued, with the solution being illegal aliens.

Like indentured servants and slaves, everyone knows that the current policies regarding illegal aliens is not right, but they settle for it for financial reasons.

 

[amrchaos]

For starters, the Romans were overexpanded and lost the technological edge with their neighbors and the barbarians( I am assuming Western Empire. The Eastern Empire was destroy by the Ottoman Turks.)

Add in the fact that many of the barbarians were trained by the Romans to fight, you can see why tech was about even with Rome

Religious intolerance ravaged the empire-mostly between Christians and others

Its economy was conquest based, but it suffered the problem of maintaining the lands they conquered.

The Romans suffered extensive corruption in their government(s) and governorship

Poor diplomacy that depended on active militarism which led to non-romans to hate them

Note: the last one is something many should keep mind when you ask "Why do they hate us?". No, it is not because of our freedoms. It because of our history of intervention in their region!

Plus: Only fools need constant reminders that they are strong or weak.

 

[NightFox]

America is not an empire.

Neither was Rome, until it became one.

 

[Mac1958]

For any of you who may be familiar with the decline of the Roman Empire, do you see any parallels to the United States at this point in its history? In my view they are astoundingly similar, from the abandonment of public moral standards to paying off our adversaries (e.g., Iran) as they continue their inexorable encirclement. Is our current political process anything more than a modern version of bread and circuses for the masses?

The only difference I can see is the compression of time from centuries to decades. We became a world-dominant superpower in a fraction of the time it took the Romans. Is there any reason to believe that our decline won't be just as quick?

Our culture is in pretty rapid decay. Will it be a crash & burn? Probably not, just the end of our dominance, as many would like.
.

 

[TNHarley]

I did a thread on the Gothic War last week.
A good reason why history is important
Just one good example..

 

[NightFox]

I did a thread on the Gothic War last week.
A good reason why history is important
Just one good example..

Good one TN, here's one for you that's applicable to the thread topic and interesting as well.....

 

[Skylar]

For any of you who may be familiar with the decline of the Roman Empire, do you see any parallels to the United States at this point in its history? In my view they are astoundingly similar, from the abandonment of public moral standards to paying off our adversaries (e.g., Iran) as they continue their inexorable encirclement. Is our current political process anything more than a modern version of bread and circuses for the masses?

The only difference I can see is the compression of time from centuries to decades. We became a world-dominant superpower in a fraction of the time it took the Romans. Is there any reason to believe that our decline won't be just as quick?

No, not being able to learn from history and the comparisons for today is idiocy.

Of course, statists like you wish to believe that their new form of government is somehow new and different from all before it. Their ideology will somehow evade the pitfalls of previous empires.

Pure arrogant Progressive stupidity.

For anyone with an even passing acquaintance, they're uselessly dissimilar. The primary cause of the decline of the Roman empire was relentless civil wars and the single largest migration of people in recorded history......right through their territory.

We don't see either.

We have never ending wars and millions migrating from the south.

We have nothing like what the Roman's experienced. And it was the *civil* wars that tore the empire apart. With generals trying to make themselves emperor by force fighting the existing emperor or emperor wanna be. With every casualty a Roman. It obliterated entire legions. To destroyed the leadership of entire armies. And it lead to gross instability for centuries.

And the *mexicans?* They are migrant workers. They wash cars, flip burgers, pick tomatoes....and then go home. The Roman's faced massive invading armies in a migration of people unmatched in human history. With most of the roman military at the time of their fall being the very peoples that had invaded them lead by a handful or Roman military officers that had survived the devastating civil wars and plagues.

We have nothing like what they faced.

Correct.

Comparing the Roman Empire to the United States is sophomoric idiocy.

No, not being able to learn from history and the comparisons for today is idiocy.

The Roman Empire fell for very specific reasons. Those reasons don't exist today with the US in any significance. Thus, a false analogy fallacy.

Of course, statists like you wish to believe that their new form of government is somehow new and different from all before it. Their ideology will somehow evade the pitfalls of previous empires.

Everything is eventual. But not for the same reasons. And that is where your logic breaks. As the Roman collapse and the current state of the US have little to nothing to do with each other.

 

[Unkotare]

America is not an empire.

Neither was Rome, until it became one.

We haven't become one.

 

[easyt65]

'Decline of the American Empire....under liberal rule'. It's all about the 'fundamental change'.

 

[gipper]

America is not an empire.

Neither was Rome, until it became one.

We haven't become one.

Yes we have.

 

[NightFox]

America is not an empire.

Neither was Rome, until it became one.

We haven't become one.

In some aspects we have (e.g. we forcefully exert direct and indirect control over areas outside of our sovereign borders, we have an ever increasing concentration of power at the center), sure it's not as complete and sudden a transformation as what took place for the Roman Republic ala Ceasar (Dictator perpetuo) --> Augustus (Emperor) but the parallels are pretty striking.

 

[amrchaos]

We could consider ourselves a corporate Republic

McDonalds is the speaker of the House!

 

[Skylar]

America is not an empire.

Neither was Rome, until it became one.

We haven't become one.

In some aspects we have (e.g. we forcefully exert direct and indirect control over areas outside of our sovereign borders, we have an ever increasing concentration of power at the center), sure it's not as complete and sudden a transformation as what took place for the Roman Republic ala Ceasar (Dictator perpetuo) --> Augustus (Emperor) but the parallels are pretty striking.

No, they're not. The 'parallels' are laughably false equivilancy fallacies, on par with assuming that a bicycle and an F-16 are the same thing because they both have wheels.

Even your time line is just nonsense. As the empire was expanding under Caesar and Augustus. And would last for about another 4 centuries before its collapse. It wouldn't even reached its high point under Trajan for a century or so.

And of course, we don't have a dictator.

Making your entire false equivalency fallacy an obtuse, confused pile of pseudo-intellectual gibberish.

 

[gipper]

No, not being able to learn from history and the comparisons for today is idiocy.

Of course, statists like you wish to believe that their new form of government is somehow new and different from all before it. Their ideology will somehow evade the pitfalls of previous empires.

Pure arrogant Progressive stupidity.

For anyone with an even passing acquaintance, they're uselessly dissimilar. The primary cause of the decline of the Roman empire was relentless civil wars and the single largest migration of people in recorded history......right through their territory.

We don't see either.

We have never ending wars and millions migrating from the south.

We have nothing like what the Roman's experienced. And it was the *civil* wars that tore the empire apart. With generals trying to make themselves emperor by force fighting the existing emperor or emperor wanna be. With every casualty a Roman. It obliterated entire legions. To destroyed the leadership of entire armies. And it lead to gross instability for centuries.

And the *mexicans?* They are migrant workers. They wash cars, flip burgers, pick tomatoes....and then go home. The Roman's faced massive invading armies in a migration of people unmatched in human history. With most of the roman military at the time of their fall being the very peoples that had invaded them lead by a handful or Roman military officers that had survived the devastating civil wars and plagues.

We have nothing like what they faced.

Correct.

Comparing the Roman Empire to the United States is sophomoric idiocy.

No, not being able to learn from history and the comparisons for today is idiocy.

The Roman Empire fell for very specific reasons. Those reasons don't exist today with the US in any significance. Thus, a false analogy fallacy.

Of course, statists like you wish to believe that their new form of government is somehow new and different from all before it. Their ideology will somehow evade the pitfalls of previous empires.

Everything is eventual. But not for the same reasons. And that is where your logic breaks. As the Roman collapse and the current state of the US have little to nothing to do with each other.

Many of the same reasons that caused Rome's demise, are present today in the US. Rome debased their currency, pursued constant war, morals and ethics declined...very much like the USA.

 

[Skylar]

We have never ending wars and millions migrating from the south.

We have nothing like what the Roman's experienced. And it was the *civil* wars that tore the empire apart. With generals trying to make themselves emperor by force fighting the existing emperor or emperor wanna be. With every casualty a Roman. It obliterated entire legions. To destroyed the leadership of entire armies. And it lead to gross instability for centuries.

And the *mexicans?* They are migrant workers. They wash cars, flip burgers, pick tomatoes....and then go home. The Roman's faced massive invading armies in a migration of people unmatched in human history. With most of the roman military at the time of their fall being the very peoples that had invaded them lead by a handful or Roman military officers that had survived the devastating civil wars and plagues.

We have nothing like what they faced.

Correct.

Comparing the Roman Empire to the United States is sophomoric idiocy.

No, not being able to learn from history and the comparisons for today is idiocy.

The Roman Empire fell for very specific reasons. Those reasons don't exist today with the US in any significance. Thus, a false analogy fallacy.

Of course, statists like you wish to believe that their new form of government is somehow new and different from all before it. Their ideology will somehow evade the pitfalls of previous empires.

Everything is eventual. But not for the same reasons. And that is where your logic breaks. As the Roman collapse and the current state of the US have little to nothing to do with each other.

Many of the same reasons that caused Rome's demise, are present today in the US.

No, they aren't.

The Roman empire fell because of *rampant* civil war, technological stagnation, and a massive migration of people's into its territory. On par with say, the whole of South American flooding into North America in vast Armies.

The Civil wars were by far the most immediate cause. With one general after another trying to make themselves emperor by the sword. In the 3rd century that had literally 50 years of nearly non-stop civil war.

A full half century.

It took a horrendous toll on their ability to govern, their infrastructure, their military and most importantly, their officers. The roman army that existed in 285 was a shadow of the force that existed in 235. So depleted where their ranks that they had to heavily conscript and incorporate foreign auxiliaries until these forces were the bulk of their own. With Roman or Roman trained officers leading the forces.

We have *nothing* like that. Nothing.

Rome faced territorial pressures from the Parthians (Persians) to the South East, the Gallic and Germanic tribes to the North, and the Goths and Huns from the North East. All while it pureed itself with civil wars from the inside.

We have no parallel for this either. As we have oceans on either side of us. There is no nation that is putting territorial pressure on us. Nor plausibly could. Our military is at its technological and practical apex. Our territorial boundaries, their furthest extent. There are no civil wars, nor have been for 150 years.

The 'parallels' are a joke.

 

[NightFox]

America is not an empire.

Neither was Rome, until it became one.

We haven't become one.

In some aspects we have (e.g. we forcefully exert direct and indirect control over areas outside of our sovereign borders, we have an ever increasing concentration of power at the center), sure it's not as complete and sudden a transformation as what took place for the Roman Republic ala Ceasar (Dictator perpetuo) --> Augustus (Emperor) but the parallels are pretty striking.

No, they're not. The 'parallels' are laughably false equivilancy fallacies, on par with assuming that a bicycle and an F-16 are the same thing because they both have wheels.

Even your time line is just nonsense. As the empire was expanding under Caesar and Augustus. And would last for about another 4 centuries before its collapse. It wouldn't even reached its high point under Trajan for a century or so.

And of course, we don't have a dictator.

Making your entire false equivalency fallacy an obtuse, confused pile of pseudo-intellectual gibberish.

*YAWN* Uh-huh, thank you for the entirely superficial and equally meaningless "analysis" based on a completely twisted interpretation of what I wrote, if I ever need happen to need a coloring book for propagandists designed I'll give you a call.

... on the bright side your contributions to /dev/null are much appreciated.