Do Faithful Muslims Lie?

[Mr.Fitnah]

LOL, Mr Fitnuts posted all of that just to show that Muhammud said. "War is deceit".

So what?

It was during a time of war. Of course you lie and try to deceive the enemy in order to win the war.

Ever seen what the Israeli's Mossad motto is? "By Way of Deception, thou shalt do War".

Islam declared war do you have evidence the war is over?
Is all religion for alllah now ?
8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do.

[ 2:193.. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc

 

[Douger]

Allah is not the Gawd of western "civilization"
Walmart is.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

Can you see the difference between hiding Jews from Nazis and deceiving someone so you can isolate and murder them for the crime of mocking Islam, while Islam was at the early stages of piracy, raiding caravans and disrupting trade

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I asked a question elsewhere about the need for a Muslim to be truthful to a non-Muslim, and received this response:

The correct form of "lying" you are referring to (taqiyya and kitman) has no real word for it in English. I guess the "long definition" would be "deceiving your oppressors in time of great calamity."

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

You can't lie. That is very blatantly stated in Islam.​

What you CAN do, however, is tell "half-truths". Drawing once again on the example of Nazi Germany, if the SS came to a German Christian's front door, and asked whether or not he had seen any Jews for the past few days, "kitman" would be as follows:

The German says "I haven't seen them anywhere."

What he doesn't add is that he's HEARD about where the Jews are running, and so he has succeeded in keeping the Jews safe while still telling the truth. That is an example of kitman.

And a Muslim performing taqiyya is a paradox. Taqiyya is when a Muslim hides his or her faith from the state in times of oppression, and has nothing to do with lying for personal benefit. The people who promote forth the theory of "actively lying to the infidel West" are Muslim versions of the KKK, and simply no better than that.

Comments? Or are we ready to quit beating the "Muslims cannot be trusted" horse now?

Everyone lies, simple fact of life.

If I was conspiracy theorists I would simply point out that a Muslim who admits it is permissible to lie under some circumstances, and then claims that it is never permissible to lie, obviously has a sliding scale when it comes to truth. I would simply point out that the Bible specifically forbids bearing false witness against your neighbors, and has no problem with lying in general. The Bible clearly records at least one occasion where God either lied, or allowed a lie to be told to suit His purposes. (1 Kings 22:20-23)

The Koran also clearly spells out specific examples when it is permissible to lie, among them not hurting a persons feelings. If I were a hypothetical Muslim that wanted to lie to anyone I would have no trouble using the Koran to justify my actions.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

LOL, Mr Fitnuts posted all of that just to show that Muhammud said. "War is deceit".

So what?

It was during a time of war. Of course you lie and try to deceive the enemy in order to win the war.

Ever seen what the Israeli's Mossad motto is? "By Way of Deception, thou shalt do War".

Is not Islam currently at war with Israel and the US?

 

[Hister]

LOL, Mr Fitnuts posted all of that just to show that Muhammud said. "War is deceit".

So what?

It was during a time of war. Of course you lie and try to deceive the enemy in order to win the war.

Ever seen what the Israeli's Mossad motto is? "By Way of Deception, thou shalt do War".

Is not Islam currently at war with Israel and the US?

Israel started it.

 

[Sunni Man]

LOL, Mr Fitnuts posted all of that just to show that Muhammud said. "War is deceit".

So what?

It was during a time of war. Of course you lie and try to deceive the enemy in order to win the war.

Ever seen what the Israeli's Mossad motto is? "By Way of Deception, thou shalt do War".

Is not Islam currently at war with Israel and the US?

Nope

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Why not?

 

[Sunni Man]

Islam is a religion.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I thought you "fight against injustice and those who try to abuse us and our religion. "
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2786173-post562.html

 

[Sunni Man]

I thought you fight against injustice and those who try to abuse us and our religion.

So you are a Muslim now!!

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

No Im am still the "Other".

 

[AllieBaba]

Some of our fellow USMB-ers have claimed that Islam teaches Muslims they must lie to non-Muslims to enhance the religion's reputation and conceal its nefarious side. I find the notion that any widely followed religion has a tenent that requires adherents to lie unbelievable.

That's because you're a naive, ignorant twit.

I suggest you talk to Muslims who have left the faith behind (and who are subsequently targeted for death. Believe me, they don't speak out against the faith because it makes them feel good to do so).

 

[AllieBaba]

"There are TWO categories of lies which are not tolerated in Islam:

1. A lie against Allah.


Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what Allah hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying), "Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against Allah, and scornfully to reject of His signs!" Sura 6:93
2. A Lie against Muhammad


Narrated Al-Mughira: I heard the Prophet saying, "Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 2.378, cf. 1.106-108)
Lying to, or about, fellow Muslims is also a sin according to the Traditions.

Cases in which lying IS permitted

One of the most interesting moral dilemmas for Islam are the cases in which lying is permitted

The Traditions tell us that there are three instances where deception can be used:


Humaid b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of 'Uqba b. Abu Mu'ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them). (Sahih Muslim, Hadith number 6303-05; see also Sahih al-Bukhari 3.857)
More information is provided by William Muir's "Life of Mahomet", Volume I, footnote 88:


The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions:
1st, to save one's life;
2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation;
3rd, to persuade a woman;
4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition.

To save one's life


The first is borne out by Mahomet's express sanction. Ammar ibn Yasir was sorely persecuted by the pagans of Mecca, and denied the faith for his deliverance. The Prophet approved of his conduct: - "If they do this again, then repeat the same recantation to them again." Katib al Wackidi; p. 227 ½. Another tradition preserved in the family of Yasir, is as follows: - "The idolators seized Ammar, and they let him not go until he had abused Mahomet and spoken well of their gods. He then repaired to the Prophet, who asked of him what had happened." - "Evil, oh Prophet of the Lord! I was not let go until I had abused thee, and spoken well of their gods." - "But how," replied Mahomet, "dost thou find thine own heart?" - "Secure and steadfast in the faith." - "Then," said Mahomet, "if they repeat the same, do thou too repeat the same." Ibid. Mahomet also said that Ammar's lie was better than Abu Jahl's truth.
To effect a peace or reconciliation


The second is directly sanctioned by the following tradition:- "That person is not a liar who makes peace between two people, and speaks good words to do away their quarrel, although they should be lies. Mishcat, vol ii. p.427.
To persuade a woman


As to the third, we have a melancholy instance that Mahomet did not think it wrong to make false promises to his wives, in the matter of Mary his Egyptian maid.
[This article provides more information on this incident.]

On the occasion of a journey or expedition


And regarding the fourth, it was his constant habit in projecting expeditions (excepting only that to Tabuk) to conceal his intentions, and to give out that he was about to proceed in another direction from the true one. Hishami, p. 392; Katib al Wackidi, p. 133 ½.
What was Muhammad's attitude towards lying?

Muhammad treated truth and deception according his own style of situational ethics. Muhammad condoned, and actually permitted, lying to further his goals:

For example,


Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

Muhammad clearly condoned dishonesty, as well as murder, when it suited his purposes.

Lying today


Imam Abu Hammid Ghazali says: "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible." (Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745)
Note that Al-Ghazali is one of the most famous and respected Muslim theologians of all time. "

Comparative Index to Islam : LYING

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

She lost interest after this post.
She is on a crusade to slur people who object to genocidal ideologies of hate.

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

Can you see the difference between hiding Jews from Nazis and deceiving someone so you can isolate and murder them for the crime of mocking Islam, while Islam was at the early stages of piracy, raiding caravans and disrupting trade

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

 

[Neubarth]

This post is an example of a deliberate lie to deceive the Christian world. All Islam is is a religion of deceit, murder, beheading, having sex with multiple partners, pedophilia, and so on. It has to be the most disgusting religion on the surface of the Earth.

I asked a question elsewhere about the need for a Muslim to be truthful to a non-Muslim, and received this response:

The correct form of "lying" you are referring to (taqiyya and kitman) has no real word for it in English. I guess the "long definition" would be "deceiving your oppressors in time of great calamity."

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

You can't lie. That is very blatantly stated in Islam.​

What you CAN do, however, is tell "half-truths". Drawing once again on the example of Nazi Germany, if the SS came to a German Christian's front door, and asked whether or not he had seen any Jews for the past few days, "kitman" would be as follows:

The German says "I haven't seen them anywhere."

What he doesn't add is that he's HEARD about where the Jews are running, and so he has succeeded in keeping the Jews safe while still telling the truth. That is an example of kitman.

And a Muslim performing taqiyya is a paradox. Taqiyya is when a Muslim hides his or her faith from the state in times of oppression, and has nothing to do with lying for personal benefit. The people who promote forth the theory of "actively lying to the infidel West" are Muslim versions of the KKK, and simply no better than that.

Comments? Or are we ready to quit beating the "Muslims cannot be trusted" horse now?

 

[Sunni Man]

This post is an example of a deliberate lie to deceive the Christian world. All Islam is is a religion of deceit, murder, beheading, having sex with multiple partners, pedophilia, and so on. It has to be the most disgusting religion on the surface of the Earth.

LOL read your Bible and then get back to me about deceit, murder, beheading, having sex with multiple partners, pedophilia, and so on.

 

[Charles_Main]

Moussaoui explains Islamic law - Jihad Watch

Moussaoui explains Islamic law

Buried deep in the story "A Terrorist's Grand Delusion" in the Washington Post is this:

He said Islam allows lying in three instances: in jihad, to bring reconciliation between Muslims, and in marriage, "if a wife asks her husband, `Am I beautiful?' and she is 60 years old."

 

[Sunni Man]

He said Islam allows lying in three instances: in jihad, to bring reconciliation between Muslims, and in marriage, "if a wife asks her husband, `Am I beautiful?' and she is 60 years old."

This is a true statement.

 

[Charles_Main]

He said Islam allows lying in three instances: in jihad, to bring reconciliation between Muslims, and in marriage, "if a wife asks her husband, `Am I beautiful?' and she is 60 years old."

This is a true statement.

So then the answer is yes. Faithful Muslims lie. At least in those 3 cases.