Do our rights come from nature and God as Paul Ryan says?

[there4eyeM]

How did you find out about these 'rights'?

 

[G.T.]

You are still swinging and missing. We are a theocracy, based on God.


We were not founded on theory 'provable at all though the confines of logic.'

But why not obfuscate and pretend you don't understand this for about the 12 time?

[COLOR="Red"[SIZE="5"]]What I made big should tell you you're a moron,[/SIZE][/COLOR]

but besides that -

we're not arguing "what our nation was founded based upon,"

We're arguing where rights come from, and where was this proven, ever..................as a philosophical question.

You're sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "cuz da founda'z said so," without discussion. You're being a DOPE.

I made it in red to kick you around some more.

America was founded on the premise that our individual freedoms and rights have been granted to us by a Supreme Creator of the Universe.

That, my friend, makes us a theocracy.

no, we're not a theocracy you buffoon.

oyyy....

just gunna ignore this dip.

 

[SniperFire]

Abortion rights definitely come from God.

Or do they?

It is the most difficult question of all to answer.

But the debate is still about violation of our sovereign rights - given by God, regardless of which side you are on.

God didn't give anybody any 'rights' whatsoever. If there is a God, he gave us life, sentience and freewill. That's it.

Like I need a theology lesson from a heathen.


LOL

 

[there4eyeM]

How did you decide to believe the source that told you about these 'rights'?

 

[Katzndogz]

If all rights come from the government and no superior rights exist, then the government can take those rights away any time it wants to, after all they owned those rights in the first place.

This might be why atheism has always failed when religion becomes the resource of the government.

 

[manifold]

It is the most difficult question of all to answer.

But the debate is still about violation of our sovereign rights - given by God, regardless of which side you are on.

God didn't give anybody any 'rights' whatsoever. If there is a God, he gave us life, sentience and freewill. That's it.

Like I need a theology lesson from a heathen.


LOL

More logic and reason than theology, but I'm not surprised you confuse them, most thumpers do.

 

[Murf76]

Saying man was 'meant to be free' is identical with saying 'man was meant to be dominated'. They can only be known one by the other.
All this you are thinking is taking place inside you. What you feel and think and believe are as close to you as your eyeballs.

No it's not. A man who isn't free will predictably seek freedom. That the nature of Man. It's observable throughout history.

 

[G.T.]

The crux of murf's rant -

We are self-fruitful in the matter of our unalienable rights. They are that which we are BORN with as human beings. Not provided to us by other people or by governments.

So, in other words, I have the same rights as, say, an Afghani, a Russian, a Chinese. I have the same rights as a trillionaire or a bowry bum. Women have the same rights as men - regardless of which country they live in.

And, we, in the US, had all these rights before the American Revolution.

The gun nuts say they need all those guns so they can be ready to fight their own government. Never mind that they're going up against the biggest weapons known to humankind and all they'll have is little pea-shooter by comparison. That's what many of these idiots say.

If what YOU say were true, they have no need of their pea-shooters.

IOW, you could not be more wrong.

Humans fight for every right they have and they will always fight for them. If they don't, some government just might take them all away.

How is it do you think that the human rights of other peoples can be violated if they don't have any innately? Why would it be wrong for Afghans to stone women to death for immodesty if they can only put such a law on the books, or for communist governments to deny free speech? WHY is slavery innately WRONG?

The problem you people are having with developing an understanding of "unalienable rights" is that you can't push your collectivist ideology on people who's rights as an INDIVIDUAL are guaranteed. No one is fooled by your apparent confusion. If you can deny the fact that people have innate rights, you can justify any arbitrary social engineering you want. You can rob and redistribute without feeling like you're doing something wrong. But you are. If you weren't, you wouldn't be in the unenviable position of defending human rights violations just so long as some government codifies them into law.

You misunderstanmd the very conversation we're having.

Nobody thinks they aren't "innate," they're saying "please offer a logical proof that they are "innate," please, and who gets to decide based on said reasoning, if you even have any.

Continuing to argue with what's not even being said is a waste of time. I'm not going to write off a discussion with you because you're trying, unlike sniper twat and soggy droors.

 

[SniperFire]

How did you decide to believe the source that told you about these 'rights'?

You don't have to believe it.

Fortunately for you heathens, our Christian Nation believes in them.

Else, we would just off you guys and simplify things.

 

[G.T.]

How did you decide to believe the source that told you about these 'rights'?

crux of the question.

 

[Murf76]

If all rights come from the government and no superior rights exist, then the government can take those rights away any time it wants to, after all they owned those rights in the first place.

This might be why atheism has always failed when religion becomes the resource of the government.

Exactly. We could pass a law that says all freckle-faced redheads must be imprisoned, and we'd be absolutely right to do it.

 

[G.T.]

How did you decide to believe the source that told you about these 'rights'?

You don't have to believe it.

Fortunately for you heathens, our Christian Nation believes in them.

Else, we would just off you guys and simplify things.

 

[Pho_King]

The crux of murf's rant -

So, in other words, I have the same rights as, say, an Afghani, a Russian, a Chinese. I have the same rights as a trillionaire or a bowry bum. Women have the same rights as men - regardless of which country they live in.

And, we, in the US, had all these rights before the American Revolution.

The gun nuts say they need all those guns so they can be ready to fight their own government. Never mind that they're going up against the biggest weapons known to humankind and all they'll have is little pea-shooter by comparison. That's what many of these idiots say.

If what YOU say were true, they have no need of their pea-shooters.

IOW, you could not be more wrong.

Humans fight for every right they have and they will always fight for them. If they don't, some government just might take them all away.

Especially those governments presiding over an increasingly secular populace that rejects the notion that god is above government, and accepts that god is government.

This is hyperbole.

If you believe in God, you obviously think that he is above Government.

If you don't believe in God, your hyperbolic statement doesn't even apply.

More childish shit.

If you believe in god, you probably believe your inalienable rights come from Him. As did the framers of our constitution. Those are rights we believe cannot be abridged. And if you believe our inalienable rights come from government, or that they are man made, there is no right that cannot be abridged. And that is where we are headed. Much of the population does not believe in god, but in government, where our rights originate. And they coincidentally also believe in a massive, ever expanding government. And those are governments to be feared. That was my point, which went right over your pointy little egghead.

The view of ou OWS parasites is prevailing. Congratulations.

 

[konradv]

Whatever rights God may or may not have given us, it still takes a government to enforce them. Absent one, if I'm stronger than you, your only right is to sit meekly by while I eat YOUR kill in hopes that I might leave you some scraps.

 

[SniperFire]

God didn't give anybody any 'rights' whatsoever. If there is a God, he gave us life, sentience and freewill. That's it.

Like I need a theology lesson from a heathen.


LOL

More logic and reason than theology, but I'm not surprised you confuse them, most thumpers do.

Nothing is more illogical than an atheist claiming God did not grant us human rights, and then in the next breathe acknowledging his argument is unprovable.

I got chunks of guys like you in my stool.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Like progressives, Communists, Marxist Totalitarians, and Third world dictators never believed in natural rights either....................

Just property of the state to be used for the ummmmmmmm "collective good" LOL

 

[Goodoledays]

I think our rights come from our sentience, we became smart enough to realize the most practical or i.e. self evident if you wish - rights, that come with the freest possible society (to date, in theory).

God doesn't need to be a factor, as the only ones declaring where said rights came from, are men themselves - therefore, the source can be forever scrutinized.

And if you want to believe that then thats your right. If someone disagrees with you then thats their right. And that is one right nobody is going to take away no matter who is leading us.

 

[manifold]

Like I need a theology lesson from a heathen.


LOL

More logic and reason than theology, but I'm not surprised you confuse them, most thumpers do.

Nothing is more illogical than an atheist claiming God did not grant us human rights, and then in the next breathe acknowledging his argument is unprovable.

I got chunks of guys like you in my stool.

What makes you think I'm an atheist?

 

[G.T.]

Especially those governments presiding over an increasingly secular populace that rejects the notion that god is above government, and accepts that god is government.

This is hyperbole.

If you believe in God, you obviously think that he is above Government.

If you don't believe in God, your hyperbolic statement doesn't even apply.

More childish shit.

If you believe in god, you probably believe your inalienable rights come from Him. As did the framers of our constitution. Those are rights we believe cannot be abridged. And if you believe our inalienable rights come from government, or that they are man made, there is no right that cannot be abridged. And that is where we are headed. Much of the population does not believe in god, but in government, where our rights originate. And they coincidentally also believe in a massive, ever expanding government. And those are governments to be feared. That was my point, which went right over your pointy little egghead.

The view of ou OWS parasites is prevailing. Congratulations.

Maybe instead of you saying what happens if we don't "BELIEVE" rights are somehow inborn, you should tell how, and why with justified logic they are inborn........................

The rest is hyperbole, dishonesty and demagoguery.

 

[SniperFire]

Whatever rights God may or may not have given us, it still takes a government to enforce them. Absent one, if I'm stronger than you, your only right is to sit meekly by while I eat YOUR kill in hopes that I might leave you some scraps.

Nobody claims that our unalienable rights cannot be tresspassed upon.