Do Palestinians Have the Right to Defend Themselves?

[Phoenall]

d by

Look at a map of the partition plan. Israel declared independence on the land allotted to her by the partition plan.
It was not Palestine that enroached on Israel, it was Arab forces joined by Palestinian militias.

The partition plan was a non binding, General Assembly recommendation for the for the Security Council to partition Palestine.

The Security Council did not act on that recommendation.

There was no allotted land. It was a recommendation.

Then on what territory did the Palestinians try to declare independence on in 1948 ? Show me map if you can

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where Palestine encroached on Israel.

Here is a map of the Arab offensive:

I don't see any Israeli borders. Where is it?

Shown by the dash dot line

That dash dot line is the 1949 armistice line. It was not there in 1948. Somebody is trying to lie to you.

Look again as it is the 1947 partition plan borders, and it shows the invasion by the arab armies into Israel as defined.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You really haven't provided anything of substance to the discussion in quite a while. You prefer to ask questions --- in such a way as to preclude a simple answer --- and then criticize the complex nature of the response. In this case you asked for a Map during a transitional period between the Mandate period and termination period --- that cascades into a period of armed conflict when territorial control is moving. Clearly your point was to imply that if a border cannot be identified, then the Arab Armies that left their sovereign territory did not enter Israel. That clearly violates the concepts of the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, yet you don't challenge the convention or the way the Article are applied to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict --- but complain the explanation is to "verbose."

Nonsense! You just don;t have the ability to address the points made.

(COMMENT)

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries that conform to Palestinian Guidelines; as if the Palestinians had some pre-existing right to place restrictions on the Israeli right to self determination.

Then you consistently challenge each response, not by content --- but by suggesting it is "verbose" (using or expressed in more words than are needed), as if the 67 year conflict between on the matter of the Jewish National Home and the Arab Civil War to prevent it, can be address in short and simple sound bites.

I am not impressed with your lack of an ability to address the issues. I am impressed in the way you take substantive points --- grounded in facts and logic --- and totally discard them as if the only perspective of realistic consequence is that held by would-be pro-Palestinians that have not made a contribution (of any sort) to humanity in nearly a century.

Most Respectfully,
R

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries...​

How can anyone attack Israel if it has no defined territory? Where is it?

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory​

Then why didn't they call it the area of Israel?

The Mandate was to allow Jews to immigrate to Palestine. They would become Palestinian citizens. They would share the country and become part of the government with the Palestinians already living there. There was not to be a Jewish.

If anyone says different, they are lying.

I don't remember reading anywhere that they were to become Palestinian citizens.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You really haven't provided anything of substance to the discussion in quite a while. You prefer to ask questions --- in such a way as to preclude a simple answer --- and then criticize the complex nature of the response. In this case you asked for a Map during a transitional period between the Mandate period and termination period --- that cascades into a period of armed conflict when territorial control is moving. Clearly your point was to imply that if a border cannot be identified, then the Arab Armies that left their sovereign territory did not enter Israel. That clearly violates the concepts of the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, yet you don't challenge the convention or the way the Article are applied to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict --- but complain the explanation is to "verbose."

Nonsense! You just don;t have the ability to address the points made.

(COMMENT)

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries that conform to Palestinian Guidelines; as if the Palestinians had some pre-existing right to place restrictions on the Israeli right to self determination.

Then you consistently challenge each response, not by content --- but by suggesting it is "verbose" (using or expressed in more words than are needed), as if the 67 year conflict between on the matter of the Jewish National Home and the Arab Civil War to prevent it, can be address in short and simple sound bites.

I am not impressed with your lack of an ability to address the issues. I am impressed in the way you take substantive points --- grounded in facts and logic --- and totally discard them as if the only perspective of realistic consequence is that held by would-be pro-Palestinians that have not made a contribution (of any sort) to humanity in nearly a century.

Most Respectfully,
R

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries...​

How can anyone attack Israel if it has no defined territory? Where is it?

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory​

Then why didn't they call it the area of Israel?

The Mandate was to allow Jews to immigrate to Palestine. They would become Palestinian citizens. They would share the country and become part of the government with the Palestinians already living there. There was not to be a Jewish.

If anyone says different, they are lying.

Simple. Israel was created in 1948

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You really haven't provided anything of substance to the discussion in quite a while. You prefer to ask questions --- in such a way as to preclude a simple answer --- and then criticize the complex nature of the response. In this case you asked for a Map during a transitional period between the Mandate period and termination period --- that cascades into a period of armed conflict when territorial control is moving. Clearly your point was to imply that if a border cannot be identified, then the Arab Armies that left their sovereign territory did not enter Israel. That clearly violates the concepts of the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, yet you don't challenge the convention or the way the Article are applied to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict --- but complain the explanation is to "verbose."

Nonsense! You just don;t have the ability to address the points made.

(COMMENT)

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries that conform to Palestinian Guidelines; as if the Palestinians had some pre-existing right to place restrictions on the Israeli right to self determination.

Then you consistently challenge each response, not by content --- but by suggesting it is "verbose" (using or expressed in more words than are needed), as if the 67 year conflict between on the matter of the Jewish National Home and the Arab Civil War to prevent it, can be address in short and simple sound bites.

I am not impressed with your lack of an ability to address the issues. I am impressed in the way you take substantive points --- grounded in facts and logic --- and totally discard them as if the only perspective of realistic consequence is that held by would-be pro-Palestinians that have not made a contribution (of any sort) to humanity in nearly a century.

Most Respectfully,
R

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries...​

How can anyone attack Israel if it has no defined territory? Where is it?

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine lies on the western edge...

So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel. Why is such a simple concept so complicated for you ? Even the Palestinians recognize the rest of the land being Israel.
Every time anyone debates with you, it's like going around in circles You need to understand that just because YOU don't recognize Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is not there. Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states, as I showed you 10 times, have defined territory.
Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco et al.

There is much confusion about Israel's borders. If one assumes that the creation of a European settler state in Palestine was legal under international law (I don't, by the way as the UN cannot, by its Charter create states), Israel's borders were defined by the provisional government of the Europeans prior to declaring independence. The communications sent by the Europeans to foreign nations requesting recognition were similar to the one written to the U.S.

"DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o'clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.

With full knowledge of the deep bond of sympathy which has existed and has been strengthened over the past thirty years between the Government of the United States and the Jewish people of Palestine, I have been authorized by the provisional government of the new state to tender this message and to express the hope that your government will recognize and will welcome Israel into the community of nations.

Very respectfully yours,

ELIAHU EPSTEIN

Agent, Provisional Government of Israel

Avalon Project - A Decade of American Foreign Policy 1941-1949 - Independence of Israel - Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States May 15 1948

So the only legal borders of Israel are the 1947 borders, as recognized by the U.S. and other countries.

Borders can be changed, but a state can only acquire territory by legal annexation, in agreement with, and with a referendum of the population. Obtaining territory by conquest violates the fundamental principle of the UN Charter.

You forget that the UN has created states since contrary to its charter and they have been islamonazi states, but that is by the by as the state was created in 1923 by a body that could enact International law. So you lose that point

The LoN defined the territory in 1923 and laid it down on the other mandates in existence at the time. If you don't agree then Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Jordan and Saudi are all illegal as well, because the LoN defined their borders for them.

That was the case on may 14 1948 right up until the combined arab armies attacked and attempted to take Israel by force and murder all the Jews. They failed in this and as a consequence Israel gained control of more free land that had not been claimed by the end of the British mandate. The UN recognised this and so amended their status and borders. So the only borders are those that exist as of 1949 when the arab muslims lost land and many battles. It was not land won by conquest but land taken freely that had no sovereign owner

The UN created no state neither did the LoN. The states you mention received provisional statehood via the Treaty of Versailles which provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations.

The partition plan was a non binding, General Assembly recommendation for the for the Security Council to partition Palestine.

The Security Council did not act on that recommendation.

There was no allotted land. It was a recommendation.

But the LoN did allot land to the Jews for their National Home in 1923, this entered into international law and so Israel fulfilled the terms of the mandate on may 14 1948. The truth sucks when you are a brainwashed islamomoron fed on propaganda and lies.

The LoN had no legal right to allot land. Per article 22 of the Covenant of the LoN. the LoN merely recognized that the land belonged to its inhabitants and the land was put in trust with the Mandatory. Since the inhabitants were 93% Christian and Muslims, 93% belonged to the non-Jewish inhabitants. Posting Hasbara cartoon maps doesn't change fact.

This is the "international law. Don't see anything about non-resident Europeans having any special rights.

"ARTICLE 22.
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League."

More importantly, per Article 20. Britain, by joining the LoN should have abrogated all obligations and understandings that were inconsistent with the terms of the Covenant of the LoN, which the Balfout Declaration was.

"ARTICLE 20.
The Members of the League severally agree that this Covenant is accepted as abrogating all obligations or understandings inter se which are inconsistent with the terms thereof, and solemnly undertake that they will not hereafter enter into any engagements inconsistent with the terms thereof.

In case any Member of the League shall, before becoming a Member of the League, have undertaken any obligations inconsistent with the terms of this Covenant, it shall be the duty of such Member to take immediate steps to procure its release from such obligations."

Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

YES THEY DID AS THEY GAINED SOVERIENGTY OVER THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE. Got that Abdul they owned the land and could do what they wanted with it. If you insist on saying stupid things then you will have to tell the arab muslims that their nations do not exist because the LoN did not have the right to grant them the land.
In the case of Palestine the LoN granted the Jews the legal right under International law to take up the land granted to them and held in trusteeship by the LoN, at any time in future when they saw themselves fit.

Yes and the LoN allotted trans Jordan as the arab muslim portion of Palestine, presided over by a foreign ruler. They gave the arab muslims 3 choices to fulfil their free determination
1) Go to trans Jordan with a small bonus for relocation and travelling expenses
2) stay and become full citizens of the new National home of the Jews
3) stay and be eventually evicted as foreign belligerents, enemies and illegals

We all know what the majority of the arab muslims decided and are now evicted from the National home of the Jews.

Read article 22 again and then post where it mentions arab muslims by name having a say in any future nation.

As for article 20 read that again in full and see where it says anything about giving all of the M.E. to the arab muslims

Article 22, indicates the "inhabitants" would have the say. Who were 93% of the inhabitants Phoney? It says nothing about transferring Europeans to Palestine, quite the opposite, since transferring Europeans to Palestine would be detrimental to the welfare of 93% of the inhabitants.

"ARTICLE 22.
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

Article 20 merely states the previous agreements, such as the Balfour Declaration, which was inconsistent with the Covenant, must have been abrogated. The Balfour Declaration was inconsistent with the Covenant because it impinged on the rights of the inhabitants (the 93% non-Jews) .

NOPE as it was the LoN that had the final say in whether or not the people would be allowed a state.

Makes no difference as they were primarily wandering workers with no ties to the land, so they were deliberately left out of the Mandate. You see they did not hit the criteria of habitually resident so were not counted, leaving the Jews and Christians to create a nation. The LoN agreed that the Jews were long overdue for a National Home and so enacted their legal rights to ignore the covenant and grant the Jews their National Home on the 22% of Palestine left. In the case of Palestine no one state governed that land under Ottoman control and as such did not meet the remit of article 22. The portion that did was granted to the Hashemite prince to be trans Jordan ( so called because the LoN did not want to give it a name the future inhabitants would not like. ) The remaining 22% just so happened to be almost the land that Mcmahon has set aside for the Jews in his letters to the Sherriff of Mecca, that they reached agreement on. So the LoN fulfilled their article 22 obligations with the allocation of trans Jordan to the muslims and the remainder to the Jews Which was the population split in 1923 when the LoN wrote the Mandate for Palestine.

Makes no difference as they were primarily wandering workers, bla, bla, bla...​

So the Palestinians living in Jaffa, Haifa, Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth, and hundreds upon hundreds of other cities, towns, and villages were wandering workers?

Where do you get this shit?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries...​

How can anyone attack Israel if it has no defined territory? Where is it?

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine lies on the western edge...

So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel. Why is such a simple concept so complicated for you ? Even the Palestinians recognize the rest of the land being Israel.
Every time anyone debates with you, it's like going around in circles You need to understand that just because YOU don't recognize Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is not there. Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states, as I showed you 10 times, have defined territory.
Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

Israel refuses to recognize the armistice lines as its borders. Most Palestinians do not recognize those borders. The UN specifically said that they were not to be political or territorial borders.

Why do you consider them to be borders?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries...​

How can anyone attack Israel if it has no defined territory? Where is it?

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory​

Then why didn't they call it the area of Israel?

The Mandate was to allow Jews to immigrate to Palestine. They would become Palestinian citizens. They would share the country and become part of the government with the Palestinians already living there. There was not to be a Jewish.

If anyone says different, they are lying.

Simple. Israel was created in 1948

The biggest year in Israel's history.

Did anyone make a map?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You really haven't provided anything of substance to the discussion in quite a while. You prefer to ask questions --- in such a way as to preclude a simple answer --- and then criticize the complex nature of the response. In this case you asked for a Map during a transitional period between the Mandate period and termination period --- that cascades into a period of armed conflict when territorial control is moving. Clearly your point was to imply that if a border cannot be identified, then the Arab Armies that left their sovereign territory did not enter Israel. That clearly violates the concepts of the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, yet you don't challenge the convention or the way the Article are applied to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict --- but complain the explanation is to "verbose."

Nonsense! You just don;t have the ability to address the points made.

(COMMENT)

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries that conform to Palestinian Guidelines; as if the Palestinians had some pre-existing right to place restrictions on the Israeli right to self determination.

Then you consistently challenge each response, not by content --- but by suggesting it is "verbose" (using or expressed in more words than are needed), as if the 67 year conflict between on the matter of the Jewish National Home and the Arab Civil War to prevent it, can be address in short and simple sound bites.

I am not impressed with your lack of an ability to address the issues. I am impressed in the way you take substantive points --- grounded in facts and logic --- and totally discard them as if the only perspective of realistic consequence is that held by would-be pro-Palestinians that have not made a contribution (of any sort) to humanity in nearly a century.

Most Respectfully,
R

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries...​

How can anyone attack Israel if it has no defined territory? Where is it?

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory​

Then why didn't they call it the area of Israel?

The Mandate was to allow Jews to immigrate to Palestine. They would become Palestinian citizens. They would share the country and become part of the government with the Palestinians already living there. There was not to be a Jewish.

If anyone says different, they are lying.

Because it did not have a name in 1923, so was referred to as the Jewish National Home.

Read it again it allowed for the Jews to have a National home that would be inhabited by not just Jews but arab muslims and Christians as full citizens. It was the arab muslims that decided they wanted to be rulers of all the M.E. and refused to have anything to do with the LoN plans

If anyone says any different they are RACIST LIARS.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You really haven't provided anything of substance to the discussion in quite a while. You prefer to ask questions --- in such a way as to preclude a simple answer --- and then criticize the complex nature of the response. In this case you asked for a Map during a transitional period between the Mandate period and termination period --- that cascades into a period of armed conflict when territorial control is moving. Clearly your point was to imply that if a border cannot be identified, then the Arab Armies that left their sovereign territory did not enter Israel. That clearly violates the concepts of the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, yet you don't challenge the convention or the way the Article are applied to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict --- but complain the explanation is to "verbose."

Nonsense! You just don;t have the ability to address the points made.

(COMMENT)

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries that conform to Palestinian Guidelines; as if the Palestinians had some pre-existing right to place restrictions on the Israeli right to self determination.

Then you consistently challenge each response, not by content --- but by suggesting it is "verbose" (using or expressed in more words than are needed), as if the 67 year conflict between on the matter of the Jewish National Home and the Arab Civil War to prevent it, can be address in short and simple sound bites.

I am not impressed with your lack of an ability to address the issues. I am impressed in the way you take substantive points --- grounded in facts and logic --- and totally discard them as if the only perspective of realistic consequence is that held by would-be pro-Palestinians that have not made a contribution (of any sort) to humanity in nearly a century.

Most Respectfully,
R

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries...​

How can anyone attack Israel if it has no defined territory? Where is it?

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine lies on the western edge...

So there is Israels defined territory

Try again only this time look at the full context


Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
This defines the area known as Palestine and not the Nation. It includes the land that was given over to trans Jordan
The header says it all but you ignore anything that disagrees with your islamonazi POV

 

[P F Tinmore]

Earlier, you denied that the Arab Countries attacked Israel --- trying to suggest that Israel does not exist because it does not have borders or boundaries...​

How can anyone attack Israel if it has no defined territory? Where is it?

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory​

Then why didn't they call it the area of Israel?

The Mandate was to allow Jews to immigrate to Palestine. They would become Palestinian citizens. They would share the country and become part of the government with the Palestinians already living there. There was not to be a Jewish.

If anyone says different, they are lying.

I don't remember reading anywhere that they were to become Palestinian citizens.

​

​

ART. 7.​

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

The Avalon Project The Palestine Mandate​

 

[toastman]

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine lies on the western edge...

So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel. Why is such a simple concept so complicated for you ? Even the Palestinians recognize the rest of the land being Israel.
Every time anyone debates with you, it's like going around in circles You need to understand that just because YOU don't recognize Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is not there. Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states, as I showed you 10 times, have defined territory.
Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

Israel refuses to recognize the armistice lines as its borders. Most Palestinians do not recognize those borders. The UN specifically said that they were not to be political or territorial borders.

Why do you consider them to be borders?

What do Armistice lines have to do with anything ??? Israel is defined by internationally recognized boundaries with Jordan (East) and Egypt (West). The border with Lebanon is called the blue line (ceasefire line created in 2000) and the border with Syria is called the purple line (1967). The latter two are armistice lines, but not the ones from 1948.

 

[toastman]

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory​

Then why didn't they call it the area of Israel?

The Mandate was to allow Jews to immigrate to Palestine. They would become Palestinian citizens. They would share the country and become part of the government with the Palestinians already living there. There was not to be a Jewish.

If anyone says different, they are lying.

I don't remember reading anywhere that they were to become Palestinian citizens.

ART. 7.
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

The Avalon Project The Palestine Mandate​

This is talking about Jews who would want to become citizens in Palestine. But when the British spoke about a Jewish Homeland, they certainly were not talking about them becoming Palestinian citizens.
Either way, all of this is pointless information.

 

[Phoenall]

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine lies on the western edge...

So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel. Why is such a simple concept so complicated for you ? Even the Palestinians recognize the rest of the land being Israel.
Every time anyone debates with you, it's like going around in circles You need to understand that just because YOU don't recognize Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is not there. Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states, as I showed you 10 times, have defined territory.
Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

Israel refuses to recognize the armistice lines as its borders. Most Palestinians do not recognize those borders. The UN specifically said that they were not to be political or territorial borders.

Why do you consider them to be borders?

I don't, but it seems that the arab muslims do as they want the UN to declare their borders to the 1967 lines. The borders I rocognise are those laid down by the LoN in the Mandate.

 

[Phoenall]

YOU claim it doesn't have any defined territory . But that' doesn't make it true. Remember, Tinmore rules don't apply to real life.

Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states have defined territory:

"In international law, a sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states."

Sovereign state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory​

Then why didn't they call it the area of Israel?

The Mandate was to allow Jews to immigrate to Palestine. They would become Palestinian citizens. They would share the country and become part of the government with the Palestinians already living there. There was not to be a Jewish.

If anyone says different, they are lying.

Simple. Israel was created in 1948

The biggest year in Israel's history.

Did anyone make a map?

Given you two, which is more that you have produced for the nation of Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine lies on the western edge...

So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel. Why is such a simple concept so complicated for you ? Even the Palestinians recognize the rest of the land being Israel.
Every time anyone debates with you, it's like going around in circles You need to understand that just because YOU don't recognize Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is not there. Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states, as I showed you 10 times, have defined territory.
Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

Israel refuses to recognize the armistice lines as its borders. Most Palestinians do not recognize those borders. The UN specifically said that they were not to be political or territorial borders.

Why do you consider them to be borders?

What do Armistice lines have to do with anything ??? Israel is defined by internationally recognized boundaries with Jordan (East) and Egypt (West). The border with Lebanon is called the blue line (ceasefire line created in 2000) and the border with Syria is called the purple line (1967). The latter two are armistice lines, but not the ones from 1948.

The armistice lines define the areas called Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, and Israel has never had a defined territory.

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine lies on the western edge...

So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel. Why is such a simple concept so complicated for you ? Even the Palestinians recognize the rest of the land being Israel.
Every time anyone debates with you, it's like going around in circles You need to understand that just because YOU don't recognize Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is not there. Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states, as I showed you 10 times, have defined territory.
Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

Israel refuses to recognize the armistice lines as its borders. Most Palestinians do not recognize those borders. The UN specifically said that they were not to be political or territorial borders.

Why do you consider them to be borders?

I don't, but it seems that the arab muslims do as they want the UN to declare their borders to the 1967 lines. The borders I rocognise are those laid down by the LoN in the Mandate.

You are confusing Palestinians with a few oligarchs around Ramallah.

 

[toastman]

Has the nation of Palestine ?

I can produce the defined territory allocated to the Jewish National Home by the LoN Mandate for Palestine a legal and binding document.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE



INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.



So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine lies on the western edge...

So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel. Why is such a simple concept so complicated for you ? Even the Palestinians recognize the rest of the land being Israel.
Every time anyone debates with you, it's like going around in circles You need to understand that just because YOU don't recognize Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is not there. Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states, as I showed you 10 times, have defined territory.
Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

Israel refuses to recognize the armistice lines as its borders. Most Palestinians do not recognize those borders. The UN specifically said that they were not to be political or territorial borders.

Why do you consider them to be borders?

What do Armistice lines have to do with anything ??? Israel is defined by internationally recognized boundaries with Jordan (East) and Egypt (West). The border with Lebanon is called the blue line (ceasefire line created in 2000) and the border with Syria is called the purple line (1967). The latter two are armistice lines, but not the ones from 1948.

The armistice lines define the areas called Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

Israel is not an 'area' , it's a sovereign state with internationally recognized boundaries AND cease - fire lines. These are facts. You can deny them until next generation, but it won;t change a thing.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine lies on the western edge...

So there is Israels defined territory

Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel. Why is such a simple concept so complicated for you ? Even the Palestinians recognize the rest of the land being Israel.
Every time anyone debates with you, it's like going around in circles You need to understand that just because YOU don't recognize Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is not there. Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states, as I showed you 10 times, have defined territory.
Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

Israel refuses to recognize the armistice lines as its borders. Most Palestinians do not recognize those borders. The UN specifically said that they were not to be political or territorial borders.

Why do you consider them to be borders?

What do Armistice lines have to do with anything ??? Israel is defined by internationally recognized boundaries with Jordan (East) and Egypt (West). The border with Lebanon is called the blue line (ceasefire line created in 2000) and the border with Syria is called the purple line (1967). The latter two are armistice lines, but not the ones from 1948.

The armistice lines define the areas called Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

Israel is not an 'area' , it's a sovereign state with internationally recognized boundaries AND cease - fire lines. These are facts. You can deny them until next generation, but it won;t change a thing.

Indeed, but that is a question that has not been answered.

 

[toastman]

Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel. Why is such a simple concept so complicated for you ? Even the Palestinians recognize the rest of the land being Israel.
Every time anyone debates with you, it's like going around in circles You need to understand that just because YOU don't recognize Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is not there. Israel is a sovereign state. Sovereign states, as I showed you 10 times, have defined territory.
Remember, Tinmore laws DO NOT apply to real life.

Israel refuses to recognize the armistice lines as its borders. Most Palestinians do not recognize those borders. The UN specifically said that they were not to be political or territorial borders.

Why do you consider them to be borders?

What do Armistice lines have to do with anything ??? Israel is defined by internationally recognized boundaries with Jordan (East) and Egypt (West). The border with Lebanon is called the blue line (ceasefire line created in 2000) and the border with Syria is called the purple line (1967). The latter two are armistice lines, but not the ones from 1948.

The armistice lines define the areas called Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

Israel is not an 'area' , it's a sovereign state with internationally recognized boundaries AND cease - fire lines. These are facts. You can deny them until next generation, but it won;t change a thing.

Indeed, but that is a question that has not been answered.

What question?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel refuses to recognize the armistice lines as its borders. Most Palestinians do not recognize those borders. The UN specifically said that they were not to be political or territorial borders.

Why do you consider them to be borders?

What do Armistice lines have to do with anything ??? Israel is defined by internationally recognized boundaries with Jordan (East) and Egypt (West). The border with Lebanon is called the blue line (ceasefire line created in 2000) and the border with Syria is called the purple line (1967). The latter two are armistice lines, but not the ones from 1948.

The armistice lines define the areas called Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

Israel is not an 'area' , it's a sovereign state with internationally recognized boundaries AND cease - fire lines. These are facts. You can deny them until next generation, but it won;t change a thing.

Indeed, but that is a question that has not been answered.

What question?

When did Israel legally acquire the land that is sits on?

Que song and dance
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