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I agree with a lot of that with one strong exception. Basically I think we're saying similar things in different temporal directions; you're talking present tense and I'm talking future. I see a culture in the present tense that needs to change itself. What we suffer is not a failure of laws but of spirit.
The strong exception I take is here:
"Our opinions on firearms and how they are portrayed in media will never change that"
Au contraire, I submit that public opinion always effects change, and that media and the larger body of cultural mores follows, not leads, public opinion. The impediment in that dynamic is influencing that public opinion on a large scale. That's no easy task but it always starts with introspection; as the sage says, the longest journey begins with a single step.
Hollyweird sells violence because violence sells. And violence sells because it has cultural value, just as fire burns because it has fuel to consume. As long as we the people keep supplying the fuel by buying the product, the fire burns. In this particular cultural value we are not so much "consumers" as "enablers".
Maybe I didn't express my point about our opinions and firearms correctly. The statement was toward how effective firearms are at doing the job they do ... And opinions don't have an effect on the firearm.
We can influence more responsible firearm ownership and attitudes towards firearm violence ... But that doesn't effect to the ability of a firearm to remain the most effective defense mechanism. Our attitudes can change the desire to use a firearm (especially in unwarranted circumstances). Our attitudes can reduce the desire of individuals to reach for a firearm as a solution (much less the best solution) to any problem.
It will never make the firearm as a tool less effective at doing its job ... Not meaning to get technical ... But they work at eliminating threats.
I see. Maybe I just read it the way I wanted it to go.
I don't disagree with any of that, but I don't think it offers any solutions either. It just basically states the status quo. We don't disagree that that's what the status quo is. I like to focus on what it could be.
Indeed. When you must project deadly force, a firearm is virtually always the best tool for the jobIt will never make the firearm as a tool less effective at doing its job ... Not meaning to get technical ... But they work at eliminating threats.
Most of the civilized world is a gun free zone. You should get out and experience the civilized world.Passing a law that says it is legal to carry a firearm in a bar does not help society.Once again, we are not talking about public intoxication.i have head it before
but it is true you really are a dumb ass
--LOL
appearing in a public place
Public intoxication laws require that the defendant be in a public place, rather than a private residence or other area that is not open to the general public. Examples of public places include sidewalks, streets, stadiums, and parks. In some states, bars and restaurants are considered public places because they are open to the general public.
What is Public Intoxication Drunk in Public Laws and Penalties Criminal Law
Well then what ARE you talking about? There are laws regarding using your firearm responsibly. You can't just go into a bar, get drunk and start shooting your weapon. You will be arrested. What other law would you like to see regarding this issue?
cobbling together "gun free zones" certainly has not helped society
Nonsense. We're no better or worse than other countries. If you disagree it's probably because you live in one of the democrat strong holds. Move to a republican strong hold and you'll see a helluva lot less violence and it will be more like Europe. Our problem isn't guns it's the people in democrat hell holes.Most of the civilized world is a gun free zone. You should get out and experience the civilized world.Passing a law that says it is legal to carry a firearm in a bar does not help society.Well then what ARE you talking about? There are laws regarding using your firearm responsibly. You can't just go into a bar, get drunk and start shooting your weapon. You will be arrested. What other law would you like to see regarding this issue?
cobbling together "gun free zones" certainly has not helped society
--LOL
it is prove it
If you think most of the world carries the violence mentality we do, you just ain't been outside, son...
In some places the cops don't carry guns except in exceptional circumstances.Most of the civilized world is a gun free zone. You should get out and experience the civilized world.Passing a law that says it is legal to carry a firearm in a bar does not help society.Once again, we are not talking about public intoxication.
Well then what ARE you talking about? There are laws regarding using your firearm responsibly. You can't just go into a bar, get drunk and start shooting your weapon. You will be arrested. What other law would you like to see regarding this issue?
cobbling together "gun free zones" certainly has not helped society
It is? The cops don't carry guns? Ever?
Nonsense. We're no better or worse than other countries. If you disagree it's probably because you live in one of the democrat strong holds. Move to a republican strong hold and you'll see a helluva lot less violence and it will be more like Europe. Our problem isn't guns it's the people in democrat hell holes.Most of the civilized world is a gun free zone. You should get out and experience the civilized world.Passing a law that says it is legal to carry a firearm in a bar does not help society.
cobbling together "gun free zones" certainly has not helped society
--LOL
it is prove it
If you think most of the world carries the violence mentality we do, you just ain't been outside, son...
In some places the cops don't carry guns except in exceptional circumstances.Most of the civilized world is a gun free zone. You should get out and experience the civilized world.Passing a law that says it is legal to carry a firearm in a bar does not help society.Well then what ARE you talking about? There are laws regarding using your firearm responsibly. You can't just go into a bar, get drunk and start shooting your weapon. You will be arrested. What other law would you like to see regarding this issue?
cobbling together "gun free zones" certainly has not helped society
It is? The cops don't carry guns? Ever?
I know. But when they need them, they have them....don't they. And unlike here in the US, the majority of police in Europe are armed with submachine guns.
Blacksand...who are you going to trust....the anti gunners...or your lying eyes....
In many places, the bartender is responsible for serving a person if they drive drunk and are in an accident. If a drunk person shoots someone, should the bartender be responsible.Encourage it then. Have the police go into bars, frisk everyone and breathalize those with guns.We do not have to encourage people who are going to be drinking to carry guns in bars because it is legal.passing a law saying it is illegal does not deter a person who doesn't care about the law, and those are the people who would be most likely to start shooting up a place.
or we say you can't be intoxicated and carry, and leave it up to the CCW person to either carry and stay sober, or not carry and drink. The issue is when a blanket restriction is made that doesn't prevent people of ill will from carrying, and only restricts those who would follow the law anyway.
How about we do the same thing to everyone with a set of car keys in their pockets?
And yes, a drunk person's car keys should be confiscated from them. I did it when I was a bartender.
I know. But when they need them, they have them....don't they. And unlike here in the US, the majority of police in Europe are armed with submachine guns.
Like the Greater Manchester Police Department ...
.
I did that once too.In many places, the bartender is responsible for serving a person if they drive drunk and are in an accident. If a drunk person shoots someone, should the bartender be responsible.Encourage it then. Have the police go into bars, frisk everyone and breathalize those with guns.We do not have to encourage people who are going to be drinking to carry guns in bars because it is legal.
or we say you can't be intoxicated and carry, and leave it up to the CCW person to either carry and stay sober, or not carry and drink. The issue is when a blanket restriction is made that doesn't prevent people of ill will from carrying, and only restricts those who would follow the law anyway.
How about we do the same thing to everyone with a set of car keys in their pockets?
And yes, a drunk person's car keys should be confiscated from them. I did it when I was a bartender.
You cannot take a person's car keys just because they are in a bar, and you cannot take a person's gun either.
That is how it is here in Ireland. Could you imagine American cops patrolling without guns?In some places the cops don't carry guns except in exceptional circumstances.Most of the civilized world is a gun free zone. You should get out and experience the civilized world.Passing a law that says it is legal to carry a firearm in a bar does not help society.Well then what ARE you talking about? There are laws regarding using your firearm responsibly. You can't just go into a bar, get drunk and start shooting your weapon. You will be arrested. What other law would you like to see regarding this issue?
cobbling together "gun free zones" certainly has not helped society
It is? The cops don't carry guns? Ever?
That is how it is here in Ireland. Could you imagine American cops patrolling without guns?In some places the cops don't carry guns except in exceptional circumstances.Most of the civilized world is a gun free zone. You should get out and experience the civilized world.Passing a law that says it is legal to carry a firearm in a bar does not help society.
cobbling together "gun free zones" certainly has not helped society
It is? The cops don't carry guns? Ever?
that certainly is not a gun free zoneI know. But when they need them, they have them....don't they. And unlike here in the US, the majority of police in Europe are armed with submachine guns.
Like the Greater Manchester Police Department ...
.
Nonsense. We're no better or worse than other countries. If you disagree it's probably because you live in one of the democrat strong holds. Move to a republican strong hold and you'll see a helluva lot less violence and it will be more like Europe. Our problem isn't guns it's the people in democrat hell holes.Most of the civilized world is a gun free zone. You should get out and experience the civilized world.cobbling together "gun free zones" certainly has not helped society
--LOL
it is prove it
If you think most of the world carries the violence mentality we do, you just ain't been outside, son...
I *am* in a "Republican strong hold", genius, and that cockamamie theory has been tried before. It's profoundly irrelevant and has absolute Zero relationship to anything.
I'm not saying I've never been outside, I'm saying the Haiku Man hasn't. Hell I travel all over this country and others. That's exactly why I know better. Moreover the point wasn't about "violence"; it was about the presence of guns.
And part of that travel is in Europe, and I guarantee you, it bears no resemblance whatsoever to a "Republican strong hold".
