Do You View Socialism Positively?

[Derideo_Te]

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. The government is formed by the 3 branches which are Congress, Judicial and Executive.

You would fail the basic naturalization test that legal immigrants have to pass.

Oh my god. What document explains the three branches of government? Idiot.

So now you are trying to squirm out of looking foolish for erroneously alleging that the supreme law of the land, AKA the constitution, was "the government".

Why don't you tell us what document contains the construction of the three branches of government. Dick nose.

Your tacit admission of failure is duly noted. Have a nice day.

You're a lying coward punk.

Congratulations, you just won a one way ticket to Cyberia for being a complete and utter waste of time who has nothing of value to contribute.

[People you Ignore] *click* [Member to Ignore] "Ibentoken" [Save Changes] *click*

 

[Ibentoken]

Oh my god. What document explains the three branches of government? Idiot.

So now you are trying to squirm out of looking foolish for erroneously alleging that the supreme law of the land, AKA the constitution, was "the government".

Why don't you tell us what document contains the construction of the three branches of government. Dick nose.

Your tacit admission of failure is duly noted. Have a nice day.

You're a lying coward punk.

Congratulations, you just won a one way ticket to Cyberia for being a complete and utter waste of time who has nothing of value to contribute.

[People you Ignore] *click* [Member to Ignore] "Ibentoken" [Save Changes] *click*

View attachment 32148

Kiss my ass and go to hell, you lying nasty coward.

 

[bripat9643]

Another economic myth, the framers gave America a Constitution that gave us an economic system, and that system is.... Hughes in his "American Economic History" says "When the existing states elected their first president and launched a new form of government in 1789, they did not seem to recognize that a dynamic interpretation of their new Constitution could make the law an instrument for the redistribution of wealth and income."

True. They didn't realize that leftwing scumbags would subvert the meaning of the document.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Socialism, well managed, is far superior to capitalism, unmanaged.

Give me an example.

The public school system vs. child labor.

You're mixing categories dude. Private schools outperform public schools and people are willing to pay private tuition in addition to the taxes they pay for pubic schools so that their kids can attend. Think about that - they could send their kids to school for "free" and they still prefer to pay money for private schooling.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Kiss my ass and go to hell, you lying nasty coward.

You're just now learned what an idiot she is? Take solace in the fact that she's emblematic of the socialist brain trust. Be worried though that her vote cancels your vote. Here's the future she represents - arguing with liberals.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Socialism is about what we as a SOCIETY do in COMMON because it benefits us all.

That's not socialism you deluded old battleaxe, that's government. When a group of people come together and form a society and pass laws they're not engaged in socialism, they're engaged in forming a government, in creating a legal system. When they come together and form an army to do battle against invading liberal raiders, they're not engaging in socialism, they're engaging in what government exists for, common defense.

You do know its impossible to argue with people who choose to be wrong - right?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Socialism is about what we as a SOCIETY do in COMMON because it benefits us all.

That's not socialism you deluded old battleaxe, that's government. When a group of people come together and form a society and pass laws they're not engaged in socialism, they're engaged in forming a government, in creating a legal system. When they come together and form an army to do battle against invading liberal raiders, they're not engaging in socialism, they're engaging in what government exists for, common defense.

You do know its impossible to argue with people who choose to be wrong - right?

I'm doing it for the children. In case some impressionable child comes across this exchange and is still free from the intellectual cancer of socialism, I want that kid to see how socialists are idiots. I engage in battle because I care about the future and I care about children. I don't want them to be enslaved by socialists.

 

[Bfgrn]

In pure socialism, there is no private ownership. Pure socialism calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources.

Off the deep end 'eh pea brain? I provided definitions of socialism. I also stated that I am not a socialist.

I know how much you and your ilk love to throw around the Marxist label on anyone who doesn't worship at the alter of 'laissez-faire' trickle down manure droppings.

I am a Kennedy liberal who believes in social programs. THAT is not 'socialism'. The "welfare state" is a construct of wealthy capitalist societies.

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809).

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809).

do you think Jefferson was against commerce? Did he want to make commerce illegal?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I know how much you and your ilk love to throw around the Marxist label on anyone who doesn't worship at the alter of 'laissez-faire' trickle down manure droppings.

manure droppings? So you think $trillions every year is manure droppings?? State of the Art health care, free education, and free housing plus a ton more is manure droppings. Then what do they have in Asia and Africa? No matter what our poor have the liberal wants more with no end in site short of liberal communism.

See why we say slow?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I am a Kennedy liberal who believes in social programs.

no dear you are brain washed Marxist fool who believes in expanding them forever no matter how many millions are crippled and killled by them!

Coincidence that when Barry took office the deadly liberal programs were bigger than ever and his entire commie programs was to expand them at a faster rate than ever?
Catching on now?

 

[Bfgrn]

Suppose, when Marx had looked about for a name to give to his program to transition capitalism to communism he had selected "scientific capitalism" instead of scientific socialism? Would all this furor that socialism leads to communism have existed; I wonder if we would have spent the last 100 years or so dreading capitalism? Marx gave us another good one and we were even afraid to read and learn how stupid the whole communistic set up or we would be afraid of being labeled a communist. I remember taking a college course on comparative economic practices and I kept one textbook covered so the title with Marx could not be seen. Students were not above accusing one of being a communist if they carried a textbook about Marx and communism to class.
After the 1917 revolution the USSR dropped the scientific-socialist thing pretty quick, and then dropped the whole communist program, it didn't work-except to frighten. Can anyone name a country that made Marxian communism work?

It isn't the name, it's the system people live under. Call it whatever you want, I want to minimize what the state takes from me to redistribute to others and pet projects. We were not formed as a socialist country, capitalism made us number one and moving away from it is lowering quality of life and freedom for most of us. Putting a happy face on socialism to sell to the masses isn't going to improve our economy.

It doesn't matter how the nation was formed, the socialists are on the winning track - we see this everywhere in the West. When the socialist ideal isn't popular with the people who hold true to the idea which formed the nation, then liberals/socialist just import a new people and give them a vote.

It's no surprise that the Democrats are gaining strength since the 70s with the tens of millions of poor people raised on socialist ideals that they've forced us to import.

It's no surprise that the Democrats are gaining strength since the 70s with the tens of millions of poor people brought about by the Great American Socialist...Ronald Reagan.

Reagan: The Great American Socialist

There is no doubt that President Obama's economic measures, passed and proposed, will raise tax rates on the richest Americans to pay for increased government funding of health care, green energy and education. So the new president is indeed a redistributionist, but so was Ronald Reagan, except that Obama's plans will transfer wealth from the rich to the poor, whereas Reagan's bills transferred wealth from the poor and the middle class to the opulent. In fact, Obama's measures are puny, whereas Reagan's were massive. If the Democrat is a "small" socialist, Reagan was the Great American Socialist.
Let's go back to the early 1980's. In 1981, Reagan signed a law that sharply reduced the income tax for the wealthiest Americans and corporations. The president asserted his program would create jobs, purge inflation and, get this, trim the budget deficit. However, following the tax cut, the deficit soared from 2.5 percent of GDP to over 6 percent, alarming financial markets, sending interest rates sky high, and culminating in the worst recession since the 1930's.

Soon the president realized he needed new revenues to trim the deficit, bring down interest rates and improve his chances for reelection. He would not rescind the income tax cut, but other taxes were acceptable. In 1982, taxes were raised on gasoline and cigarettes, but the deficit hardly budged. In 1983, the president signed the biggest tax rise on payrolls, promising to create a surplus in the Social Security system, while knowing all along that the new revenue would be used to finance the deficit.

The retirement system was looted from the first day the Social Security surplus came into being, because the legislation itself gave the president a free hand to spend the surplus in any way he liked. Thus began a massive transfer of wealth from the poor and the middle class, especially the self-employed small businessman, to the wealthy. The self-employment tax jumped as much as 66 percent.

In 1986, Reagan slashed the top tax rate further. His redistributionist obsession led to a perversity in the law. The wealthiest faced a 28 percent tax rate, while those with lower incomes faced a 33 percent rate; in addition, the bottom rate climbed from 11 percent to 15 percent. For the first time in history, the top rate fell and the bottom rate rose simultaneously. Even unemployment compensation was not spared. The jobless had to pay income tax on their benefits. A year later, the man who would not spare unemployment compensation from taxation called for a cut in the capital gains tax. Thus, Reagan was a staunch socialist, totally committed to his cause of wealth redistribution towards the affluent.

How much wealth transfer has occurred through Reagan's policies? At least $3 trillion.

The Social Security hike generated over $2 trillion in surplus between 1984 and 2007, and if it had been properly invested, say, in AAA corporate bonds it could have earned another trillion by now. At present, the fund is empty, because it has been used up to finance the federal deficits resulting from frequent cuts in income tax rates. If this is not redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich, what else is?

Thus, Reagan was the first Republican socialist - and a great one, because his wealth transfer occurred on a massive scale. His accomplishment dwarfs even FDR's, and if today the small businessman suffers a crippling tax burden, he must thank Reagan the redistributionist. However, FDR took pains to help the poor, while Reagan took pains to help the wealthiest like himself.

Reagan's measures were similar to those that the Republicans adopted during the 1920's, which were followed by the catastrophic Depression. More recently, such policies were mimicked by President George W. Bush and they are about to plunge the world into a depression as well. Ironically, the Reagan-style socialism or wealth redistribution is about to destroy monopoly capitalism, the very system that he wanted to preserve and enrich.

Wake up America and elect leaders with a heart - not those who would tax your unemployment benefits and cut the capital gains tax. ref

 

[Little-Acorn]

The poll question: "Just off the top of your head, would you say you have a positive or negative image of socialism?"

Dems/left leaning - 53% pos ... 41% neg
Repubs/right leaning - 17% pos ... 79% neg
All Americans - 36% pos ... 68% neg

Strangely, Americans are almost unanimously positive about small biz (95%) and very positive about free enterprise (86%) and entrepreneurs (84%), all of which are contrary to socialism.

Socialism Viewed Positively by 36 of Americans

They would give it that headline.

Instead of the one that tells the real story:

"Americans reject socialism nearly 2 to 1".

And the relevant sub-headline:

"American population much more closely aligned with Republican ideas than Democrat ideas".

 

[Bfgrn]

I am a Kennedy liberal who believes in social programs.

no dear you are brain washed Marxist fool who believes in expanding them forever no matter how many millions are crippled and killled by them!

Coincidence that when Barry took office the deadly liberal programs were bigger than ever and his entire commie programs was to expand them at a faster rate than ever?
Catching on now?

Hey pea brain...the first 'welfare state' program, Otto Von Bismarck's compulsory health insurance in 1883 in Prussia was voted AGAINST by the socialists. Karl Marx had died weeks before, so the socialist leader August Bebel consulted his friend Friedrich Engels, who insisted that socialists should vote against it, as they did. The first welfare state on earth was created against socialist opposition.

The forgotten truth about health provision is that socialism and state welfare are old enemies, and welfare overspending is a characteristic of advanced capitalist economies. When the two Germanies united after 1990, the social provision of the capitalist West was more than twice that of the socialist East, and the cost of unification to West Germany proved vast. Talk of socialized medicine was always misleading if socialized implies socialist, and the very word probably guarantees that confusion. The British National Health Service of 1948, like the Canadian version that followed it 20 years later, always allowed for a flourishing private sector—a sector that has tended to grow with the years. It neither banned private medical care nor discouraged it. Only a competitive economy, what is more, is likely to generate a tax base big enough to maintain public hospitals, pensions, and schools. In short, a free economy needs state welfare, and state welfare needs a free economy.

The American Scholar The Forgotten Churchill - George Watson

 

[Bfgrn]

The poll question: "Just off the top of your head, would you say you have a positive or negative image of socialism?"

Dems/left leaning - 53% pos ... 41% neg
Repubs/right leaning - 17% pos ... 79% neg
All Americans - 36% pos ... 68% neg

Strangely, Americans are almost unanimously positive about small biz (95%) and very positive about free enterprise (86%) and entrepreneurs (84%), all of which are contrary to socialism.

Socialism Viewed Positively by 36 of Americans

They would give it that headline.

Instead of the one that tells the real story:

"Americans reject socialism nearly 2 to 1".

And the relevant sub-headline:

"American population much more closely aligned with Republican ideas than Democrat ideas".

Not exactly...

 

[Youch]

The poll question: "Just off the top of your head, would you say you have a positive or negative image of socialism?"

Dems/left leaning - 53% pos ... 41% neg
Repubs/right leaning - 17% pos ... 79% neg
All Americans - 36% pos ... 68% neg

Strangely, Americans are almost unanimously positive about small biz (95%) and very positive about free enterprise (86%) and entrepreneurs (84%), all of which are contrary to socialism.

Socialism Viewed Positively by 36 of Americans

And yet our "federal government" fare removed from our individual interests, moves in another direction.

Article 5 of the Constitution is the answer.

 

[Bfgrn]

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809).

do you think Jefferson was against commerce? Did he want to make commerce illegal?

Notes on the State of Virginia
In 1780, François de Barbé Marbois, a French diplomat in Philadelphia, sent a series of questions to officials of each of the thirteen states. His goal was to learn more about the natural resources, economies, and people of the states so that he could report back to France.

The questions to Virginia were forwarded to Thomas Jefferson, who was then governor of Virginia. Jefferson wrote a detailed response to each of Marbois’ questions, and in 1784 his “notes on the state of Virginia” were published as a book.

In this section, Jefferson answers Marbois’ question about “the present state of manufactures, commerce, interior and exterior trade.” In it, he argues that Virginia should not focus on developing industry but should remain agricultural.

Farmers as ideal citizens
During and after the Revolution, American leaders worried about whether their new form of government would survive. A republic was based on the decisions of the people, and so (it was believed) the people must be willing to put the common good ahead of their own private self-interest.

Thomas Jefferson on manufacturing and commerce
Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia (Richmond: J. W. Randolph, 1853). Originally written in 1781 and first published in 1784.


"While we have land to labour then, let us never wish to see our citizens occupied at a work-bench, or twirling a distaff. Carpenters, masons, smiths, are wanting in husbandry: but, for the general operations of manufacture, let our work-shops remain in Europe. It is better to carry provisions and materials to workmen there, than bring them to the provisions and materials, and with them their manners and principles. The loss by the transportation of commodities across the Atlantic will be made up in happiness and permanence of government. The mobs of great cities add just so much to the support of pure government, as sores do to the strength of the human body. It is the manners and spirit of a people which preserve a republic in vigour. A degeneracy in these is a canker which soon eats to the heart of its laws and constitution." ref

 

[Bfgrn]

Socialism is about what we as a SOCIETY do in COMMON because it benefits us all.

That's not socialism you deluded old battleaxe, that's government. When a group of people come together and form a society and pass laws they're not engaged in socialism, they're engaged in forming a government, in creating a legal system. When they come together and form an army to do battle against invading liberal raiders, they're not engaging in socialism, they're engaging in what government exists for, common defense.

You do know its impossible to argue with people who choose to be wrong - right?

I'm doing it for the children. In case some impressionable child comes across this exchange and is still free from the intellectual cancer of socialism, I want that kid to see how socialists are idiots. I engage in battle because I care about the future and I care about children. I don't want them to be enslaved by socialists.

Yes, you are leading a noble cause...

Rikurzhen and friends...

 

[Rikurzhen]

Not exactly...

Wow, are you ever gullible. Can't you recognize false flag operations conducted by liberals? Those are liberal activists pretending to be TEA Party activists in order to embarrass the TEA Party.

Do you really think 25 year old men and women are protesting about Government taking away their MEDICARE benefits?

 

[Bfgrn]

Not exactly...

Wow, are you ever gullible. Can't you recognize false flag operations conducted by liberals? Those are liberal activists pretending to be TEA Party activists in order to embarrass the TEA Party.

Do you really think 25 year old men and women are protesting about Government taking away their MEDICARE benefits?

False flag? REALLY??? A CONSPIRACY!!!

Try again...

Poll: 70 Percent of "Tea Party Supporters" Oppose Medicare Cuts

Poll 70 Percent of quot Tea Party Supporters quot Oppose Medicare Cuts