CDZ Does Trump really not know how to defend his ideas instead of attacking the people who oppose them?

[rightwinger]

Donald has the mentality of a nine year old

When someone opposes him, his response is a variation of.......Oh Yea? Well you suck




.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Whenever someone opposes Donald Trump's proposals, rather than respond by demonstrating the substantive merit of his proposals, Trump attacks the opposer. It was one thing to do that in the theater of campaigning, but as President the man's "best" responses are still that same childish retort.

Why has our society devolved into one of exchanges of attacks rather than exchanges of substance?

I think what the media is calling the president is worse. I think what Hollywood is saying about him is worse. Calling him a Nazi and a racist. OH, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE PRESIDENT. So what. They're all acting like a bunch of spoiled children pouting and throwing a tantrum about losing an election.

I saw on the news yesterday that some two-bit country called Trump a "fool" yesterday, very disrespectfully, and you know they got their cue from all that's been said about Trump. We can disagree with him, but calling him a moron or Orange Jesus should be reserved for our living rooms. With the computer OFF.

I don't know that I agree with that. Denying the truth of the nature of the man who is the leader of any nation serves little. The U.S. didn't historically elect fools to the Presidency, but now it has. Trump's not a fool in all areas, but in those that involve public policy making that must benefit a whole nation, he is.

The very notion of representative governance means that the individuals in power must nonetheless act on everyone's behalf, not just on behalf of those who support them. It also means one must equally consider the merit of opposing points of view. Not doing that is what makes Trump a fool.

 

[rdean]

Does Trump really not know how to defend his ideas instead of attacking the people who oppose them?

How do you even know they are his ideas? There are rumors he didn't even know what he was signing. That Steve Bannon told him what to sign.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Whenever someone opposes Donald Trump's proposals, rather than respond by demonstrating the substantive merit of his proposals, Trump attacks the opposer. It was one thing to do that in the theater of campaigning, but as President the man's "best" responses are still that same childish retort.

Why has our society devolved into one of exchanges of attacks rather than exchanges of substance?

That's just his style. He cuts through the crap. He sticks the knife straight in front, not in the back.....

That's not "cutting through the crap." It's piling it higher and deeper. It doesn't advance the viability of his proposal, at lest not among people who are open to ideas and who consider them on merit, not on emotion or on solely what little merit appears on the surface.

I think you may be missing the point in Trump's actions. Most people do not consider proposals based on anything more than a cursory glance at the facts. So, why should Trump publicly defend them in such a way? What would be the point? He can spew his platitudes and insults to appease his supporters, then privately do what is needed to get things done (ie. explaining the merit of his proposal to the people who represent us).

But that isn't what he does. In fact, he and other Republicans ridiculed Hillary Clinton when she admitted to that being part of how governance happens.

 

[Divine Wind]

..How do you even know they are his ideas? There are rumors he didn't even know what he was signing. That Steve Bannon told him what to sign.

Rumors where? Your weekly circle jerk & pot-smoking meeting? Dude, there's a lot more people involved in the WH than Trump and Bannon, but you are free to believe Trump is simply Bannon's puppet if it helps you sleep at night.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Does Trump really not know how to defend his ideas instead of attacking the people who oppose them?

How do you even know they are his ideas? There are rumors he didn't even know what he was signing. That Steve Bannon told him what to sign.

The implication of your remark is that Trump is more follower than leader. With that notion, I agree. It's typical of followers to not be able to soundly defend the positions they attest to holding. It's the difference between saying

• "Here's the plan/strategy. These are its strengths. These are its weaknesses. Thus and such is how we can mitigate the weaknesses. We will at these milestones, based on XYZ criteria, measure our progress toward the goal(s) and determine whether to scrap the idea, modify it, or proceed forward with it in its original state."

and

• "I agree that such and such is what we should do."

I haven't seen any instances of Trump putting forth expositions of the former class. He doesn't need necessarily to do it in a public oration; obviously he cannot do that in a tweet. Putting the information on the White House website would do just fine.

 

[usmbguest5318]

The people who voted for Donald Trump like his style, part of which is to hit back at critics....he makes dopey statements and those who are among his followers love him for it.

It's one thing to like that style. It's another for the person having that style to have nothing more to bring to the table than a style. The terrible thing about it is that millions of people didn't and have yet to demand evidence of more than there being an entertaining and inspiring style. Therein -- that our electorate doesn't require gravitas from its president and other leaders -- is the real problem.

 

[mudwhistle]

There can only be four reasons Trump defends murderous Russia:

1. Business ties keeps him defending Russia no matter what they do.

2. He' being blackmailed.

3. He doesn't understand what he's saying.

4. He agrees with murder, poison and jailing political opponents.

It's either one of those or a combination. There are no other options.

Yes, his some of remarks are made in defense of Russia or some notion of what Russia is, but the thing is that he doesn't actually put forth an actual case for what's positive about Russia and what's negative about it and why those negatives should be discounted to the point that in total, Russia should hold an elevated status (from what it currently is) in the U.S.' development and execution of policy.

Well, everyone knows that if Trump doesn't promise to nuke Russia in the next 30 seconds that means he's working with them to take over the world......

 

[Dragonlady]

There can only be four reasons Trump defends murderous Russia:

1. Business ties keeps him defending Russia no matter what they do.

2. He' being blackmailed.

3. He doesn't understand what he's saying.

4. He agrees with murder, poison and jailing political opponents.

It's either one of those or a combination. There are no other options.

It's just his personality disorder. Everything is personal with him, including perceived slights. If you disagree, you have slighted him. He defends himself that way because it is instinctive, part of his character. No one should be surprised. I highly doubt if he is in cahoots with them or under any kind of obligation. People keep needling him about his comments, many moons ago, that he admires Putin. The more you needle him, the more the defensiveness comes out.

As for the OP's question, he isn't a debater or a politician and that wasn't his training. He's been the one in charge, answerable to no one else. He doesn't have that ability to come up with a reply on the spur of the moment. And at his age, I doubt if he's going to learn.

Yet again, you cannot see the difference between calling someone a loser and someone who spent their entire presidency getting even with anyone who doesn't agree with him.

Well, maybe you can. You think that Obama had every right to conduct a war on Fox News. You think Obama had the right to prevent conservative groups from raising cash for their candidates by withholding their 501k status. You think Obama had every right to use the IRS to attack his critics. To throw people in jail because they insulted Islam. To send billions of our taxpayers cash to Iran. To send billions to the UN. You think Obama had a right to attack police and make it next to impossible for them to do their jobs. You think it's just great that Obama was attacking businesses with the Justice Department and bring lawsuits and calling in the goons on any folks that weren't kissing his ass. You feel it was okay for Obama to try to undermine and subvert a foreign election. You feel its not a problem when he continues to undermine the Israeli government. You have no problem with Obama waiting till his last month in office to stab Israel in the back.

Yeah, Trump is a terrible person for calling someone a loser or an jerk. Well words mean something but that's all it is, just words. Quite a change from all of the vindictive actions of our last president.

The OP was talking about Trump, and so was I. There is no need to bring Obama into it, in any way.

Living in a total vaccum isn't reality.

You have to be able to defend your positions according to the facts or admit you were wrong. Obama's actions were swept under the rug for 8 years and now we're supposed to forget about them? Instead we must listen to a corrupt media's exaggerations?

Being a Democrat is so easy because you never have to face the truth or face the consequences of your acts.

What alternate reality do you live in? Oh yeah, the one where you get your information from the alt-right media which never ever lies, or puts out false information, like Benghazi, Benghai, Benghazi!!!

Or perhaps all of those stories about Hillary Clinton having Parkinson's Disease or MS???? Or stories that the Clintons stole furniture from the White House, or that Bill Clinton is a rapist.

As for the contents of the emails, why weren't the RNC emails released by the Russian hackers. I highly doubt they were kind to Trump given the lengths the Republicans went to trying to derail his candidacy, including trying to force through a rule change to a brokered convention. Trump essentially hijacked the Republican Party to try to put through an alt-right slate of reforms that are running right into the wall of opposition from the judiciary that the Founding Fathers intended would happen when they framed the Constitution. Trump is the guy Thomas Jefferson warned you about.

Trump is a lying bully, as is increasing more evident as he swings into action, and misses: the Mexican President cancelling his meeting with Trump and then Trump claiming it was a "mutual" decision. No it wasn't. Trump hanging up on the Australian Prime Minister and then saying he was going to "look into the deal" which he has already proclaimed to be the "worst deal ever". If he hasn't even looked at the terms of the deal, how does he know it's the "worst deal ever". And why would he book an hour long phone call with the Australian Prime Minister without first doing his preparation for their discussions, including reviewing the terms of any deals being discussed?

His first anti-terrorist operation was a failure because he authorized an operation without reviewing the intel. He's very lucky the whole team wasn't wiped out. Instead one of their rescue planes was shot down and had to be blown up to keep Al Qaeda from being able to use it, and they're lucky they only lost one member of their team. And there were numerous civilian casualties. Trump ordered the raid. It's failure is on him as Commander in Chief.

Trump is proving himself completely incapable of doing the job required and now he needs a vacation? After two weeks on the job? Maybe if he'd spent the time between November 8th and January 20th preparing to do the job instead of going on a "victory tour", he might have a clue as to how to do the job. He could start by reading the Constitution - starting with the separation of powers clauses.

 

[mudwhistle]

Trump is the most emotionally immature adult I have ever had occasion to listen to. I have not seen such childishness since I was in elementary school. Every negative poll is fake. Ever protester is paid. Every opponent is a loser, and/or weak. Women who are not trophy wife material are ugly and nasty. He is a pathological liar, and has no problem lying about petty things, like fraudulent voters and inauguration attendance. His narcissistic tendencies are overwhelming. His personal vendettas are nothing short of vicious. I am sure that Trump has no friends, only toadies.

I guess you've never actually seen one of Hillary's famous meltdowns.....mainly because she doesn't allow cellphones around her when she's off-camera....

 

[kiwiman127]

I happened to have just completed reading an article, that fits pretty well into this thread. It's a good read.
Bracing for Trump's Revenge
Conservative Critics Are Bracing for Trump's Revenge/

 

[mudwhistle]

Whenever someone opposes Donald Trump's proposals, rather than respond by demonstrating the substantive merit of his proposals, Trump attacks the opposer. It was one thing to do that in the theater of campaigning, but as President the man's "best" responses are still that same childish retort.

Why has our society devolved into one of exchanges of attacks rather than exchanges of substance?

I think what the media is calling the president is worse. I think what Hollywood is saying about him is worse. Calling him a Nazi and a racist. OH, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE PRESIDENT. So what. They're all acting like a bunch of spoiled children pouting and throwing a tantrum about losing an election.

I saw on the news yesterday that some two-bit country called Trump a "fool" yesterday, very disrespectfully, and you know they got their cue from all that's been said about Trump. We can disagree with him, but calling him a moron or Orange Jesus should be reserved for our living rooms. With the computer OFF.

I don't know that I agree with that. Denying the truth of the nature of the man who is the leader of any nation serves little. The U.S. didn't historically elect fools to the Presidency, but now it has. Trump's not a fool in all areas, but in those that involve public policy making that must benefit a whole nation, he is.

The very notion of representative governance means that the individuals in power must nonetheless act on everyone's behalf, not just on behalf of those who support them. It also means one must equally consider the merit of opposing points of view. Not doing that is what makes Trump a fool.

That's weird.

Obama never represented or even respected the needs of gun owners.

 

[Dragonlady]

Well, everyone knows that if Trump doesn't promise to nuke Russia in the next 30 seconds that means he's working with them to take over the world......

In a long posting history or stupid remarks, this has to be the dumbest thing you've ever said.

In your opinion there is no middle ground between ignoring the Russian invasion of the Ukraine, and nuking the Russians for it?? If your neighbour starts moving his stuff into your yard, do you have a word with him about it, or do you just get out a rocket launcher and blast his house?

The question becomes who is going to take over as the leader of the Free World, since Trump is taking the US out of world politics? Since the US is closing itself off to immigration and tourism from the rest of the world, someone will have to fill the void. Who is it going to be? Angela Merkel? Justin Trudeau?

 

[usmbguest5318]

I happened to have just completed reading an article, that fits pretty well into this thread. It's a good read.
Bracing for Trump's Revenge
Conservative Critics Are Bracing for Trump's Revenge/

Off Topic:
Holy "Cold War East Germany," Batman.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Trump is going to get worse. Much worse. As his initiative backfire, like it has so far on the Muslim ban, he strikes out. For one thing, it diverts the public from his failures. For another, he so insecure that he can not recognize that he made a mistake in claiming he can do something he can't. His war with the media is just beginning. He will also end up at war with most of his own party.

 

[OldLady]

After reading the first 21 posts I am convinced (again) of one thing. That is that we are a deeply divided and highly partisan country. Trump is no different, sure he lashes out at people instead of defending his position. Who among us doesn't? Why would we expect our leader to do any different? Heck, what other recent "leader" hasn't done the same thing, if a little more eloquently? Cases in point:

• The science is settled. Implying that if you disagree you are a "science denier" and therefore dumb, ignorant, or otherwise unfit to discuss this further.
• Rightwingnutjobs
• Leftards

I mean really, is anyone surprised? You really shouldn't be. When was the last time you had a civil disagreement, on a political topic/issue, with someone and no insults, or personalisation occurred?

Ummmm, on a daily basis, at the local diner and with students. You did mean face to face, didn't you?

 

[usmbguest5318]

I happened to have just completed reading an article, that fits pretty well into this thread. It's a good read.
Bracing for Trump's Revenge
Conservative Critics Are Bracing for Trump's Revenge/

It strikes me as yet another manifestation of the anti-intellectualism that's taking over the Republican party. It didn't used to be that way. The GOP used to have really keen thinkers like William F. Buckley, Jr. who actually had substantive comments to contribute to the public policy debate. These days, conservative intellectuals have little but academic abstractions to offer, most especially about the Trump trend.

 

[OldLady]

Whenever someone opposes Donald Trump's proposals, rather than respond by demonstrating the substantive merit of his proposals, Trump attacks the opposer. It was one thing to do that in the theater of campaigning, but as President the man's "best" responses are still that same childish retort.

Why has our society devolved into one of exchanges of attacks rather than exchanges of substance?

I think what the media is calling the president is worse. I think what Hollywood is saying about him is worse. Calling him a Nazi and a racist. OH, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE PRESIDENT. So what. They're all acting like a bunch of spoiled children pouting and throwing a tantrum about losing an election.

I saw on the news yesterday that some two-bit country called Trump a "fool" yesterday, very disrespectfully, and you know they got their cue from all that's been said about Trump. We can disagree with him, but calling him a moron or Orange Jesus should be reserved for our living rooms. With the computer OFF.

I don't know that I agree with that. Denying the truth of the nature of the man who is the leader of any nation serves little. The U.S. didn't historically elect fools to the Presidency, but now it has. Trump's not a fool in all areas, but in those that involve public policy making that must benefit a whole nation, he is.

The very notion of representative governance means that the individuals in power must nonetheless act on everyone's behalf, not just on behalf of those who support them. It also means one must equally consider the merit of opposing points of view. Not doing that is what makes Trump a fool.

I don't believe the Dems were particularly good at "acting on everyone's behalf" and considering all their points of view for the past 8 years, either, Xelor. When pundits and publications are calling him a moron (in so many words) to the whole of the world, I don't see the point. Yes, we should continue to call him out on policies we don't agree with. We should fact check his abysmal fairy tales, report the facts and move on.
Do you understand the difference between that and calling him a buffoon and mocking him before the world? It's one thing to unload here, in private, but honestly, I have seen this dynamic over and over. Disrespect is contagious. It is at least as much perception as truth. And it is poisonous. That's all. We may reasonably call for the President to "tone it down," but I think some of us, including some famous Democrats, should do the same.

 

[usmbguest5318]

When was the last time you had a civil disagreement, on a political topic/issue, with someone and no insults, or personalisation occurred?

I can't speak to OldLady's experiences, but for myself, pretty much any time I have a political conversation with my peers. It's only on USMB, and from Trump's mouth, that I come by the puerility of personal insults and unsupported/weakly supported assertions. I've even been at social events and gotten into heated disagreements with my Congressperson and Mayor, along with a few other locals, and the conversations were nonetheless civil.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Whenever someone opposes Donald Trump's proposals, rather than respond by demonstrating the substantive merit of his proposals, Trump attacks the opposer. It was one thing to do that in the theater of campaigning, but as President the man's "best" responses are still that same childish retort.

Why has our society devolved into one of exchanges of attacks rather than exchanges of substance?

I think what the media is calling the president is worse. I think what Hollywood is saying about him is worse. Calling him a Nazi and a racist. OH, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE PRESIDENT. So what. They're all acting like a bunch of spoiled children pouting and throwing a tantrum about losing an election.

I saw on the news yesterday that some two-bit country called Trump a "fool" yesterday, very disrespectfully, and you know they got their cue from all that's been said about Trump. We can disagree with him, but calling him a moron or Orange Jesus should be reserved for our living rooms. With the computer OFF.

I don't know that I agree with that. Denying the truth of the nature of the man who is the leader of any nation serves little. The U.S. didn't historically elect fools to the Presidency, but now it has. Trump's not a fool in all areas, but in those that involve public policy making that must benefit a whole nation, he is.

The very notion of representative governance means that the individuals in power must nonetheless act on everyone's behalf, not just on behalf of those who support them. It also means one must equally consider the merit of opposing points of view. Not doing that is what makes Trump a fool.

I don't believe the Dems were particularly good at "acting on everyone's behalf" and considering all their points of view for the past 8 years, either, Xelor. When pundits and publications are calling him a moron (in so many words) to the whole of the world, I don't see the point. Yes, we should continue to call him out on policies we don't agree with. We should fact check his abysmal fairy tales, report the facts and move on.
Do you understand the difference between that and calling him a buffoon and mocking him before the world? It's one thing to unload here, in private, but honestly, I have seen this dynamic over and over. Disrespect is contagious. It is at least as much perception as truth. And it is poisonous. That's all. We may reasonably call for the President to "tone it down," but I think some of us, including some famous Democrats, should do the same.

When I read your early remark and replied to it, Korea's leader came first to mind. I thought, is that guy an idiot, for he is without question a national leader. Should I or anyone not call him a fool? I don't think so. Thus, why should Trump be exempt? Sure, Kim Jong Un doesn't countenance any dissention among his countrymen, but that we have the right to do that, and that our political leaders have, so far, respected that right is part of what make the U.S. and its former presidents better than Un. Kim Jong Un deserves to be mocked as does Trump. Given some of the rumblings Trump has made recently and during his campaign, it may come to be that denying voices of opposition to ring loudly comes to be something the Trump administration shares with Un's.