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Well...before we re-fight this battle, everyone please remember something about the reproductive care mandate under Obamacare.
Just because the coverage is mandatory does not mean anyone has to take advantage of it. If someone has religious objections, just don't file a claim for it.
Conversely, if it's NOT mandated, there's nothing stopping anybody from getting such coverage on their own.
It's a manufactured issue, manufactured for political purposes, and nothing else.
You really don't understand money at all, do you?
This is going to cost money, and everyone is going to have to pay for it, even if they don't need it. Every policy sold in this country is going to cover birth control. Old men are going to be able to have prescription coverage for the pill simply because it is covered, even though no man needs the pill for anything. Gay couples are going to have it included in their policies, even if they do not want it. Everyone in this country is going to be paying for it, no matter what.
You can sit there and pretend to yourself that you have an intelligent argument, but the only person you are fooling is the three year old child who used to be you.
Government mandated car insurance also includes provisions and coverages you may never need, yet you still have to pay for them. How is that any different?
Government offices also close on the 4th of July, Memorial Day, Presidents Day, Labor Day and Thanksgiving, which aren't religious holidays, so your case fails. And, don't forget, every federal employee does not get Christmas off. Soldiers, federal police officers, air traffic controllers and many others work right on through the holiday.
Thanksgiving (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThanksgiving, or Thanksgiving Day, is a holiday celebrated in the United States on the fourth Thursday in November. It has officially been an annual tradition since 1863, when, during the Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln proclaimed a national day of "Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens", to be celebrated on Thursday, November 26.
Yep, nothing religious about that.
Your ignorance is only surpassed by your willingness to eat your feet.
Ok, I'll concede that without debating the origins of Thanksgiving in this country.
Now...show me the religious linkage to Memorial Day and Labor Day.
No, Hobby Lobby does not believe in abortion. It's a corporation which does not, cannot "believe" in anything. Hobby Lobby's OWNER does not believe in abortion and that's a key difference.
That makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.
Of course it does, but that's a fine point of law which usually confuses people.
The government has been mandating basic insurance coverage long before Obama became President. The only reason the majority of people are sitting up and saying "wait a second" now is because they happen to mandate something you don't personally agree with.
The government shouldn't be mandating insurance, at all, but if you're going to let them, you don't get to pick and choose the preventive care they mandate.
Obamacare Will Mandate Free Coverage of Abortion Drug & Contraception Without Religious Exemption | The Weekly StandardObama administration has decided to move forward with its mandate that private insurance companies must provide "free" coverage of contraception and sterilization procedures, as well as an abortion pill called "ella"--which is much friendlier sounding than its "close chemical relative" RU-486.
What kind of lowlife scum would allow religious nuts or just plain weirdo-nuts with secular licenses granted by government to deny decent people access to the full range of medical options?
You really don't understand money at all, do you?
This is going to cost money, and everyone is going to have to pay for it, even if they don't need it. Every policy sold in this country is going to cover birth control. Old men are going to be able to have prescription coverage for the pill simply because it is covered, even though no man needs the pill for anything. Gay couples are going to have it included in their policies, even if they do not want it. Everyone in this country is going to be paying for it, no matter what.
You can sit there and pretend to yourself that you have an intelligent argument, but the only person you are fooling is the three year old child who used to be you.
Government mandated car insurance also includes provisions and coverages you may never need, yet you still have to pay for them. How is that any different?
Government mandated car insurance requires only that I carry minimum coverage to protect other people from my mistakes, it does not require me to cover oil changes for other people's cars.
Seriously Oldfart, STFU, you are making yourself look dumber with every single post.
The government has been mandating basic insurance coverage long before Obama became President. The only reason the majority of people are sitting up and saying "wait a second" now is because they happen to mandate something you don't personally agree with.
The government shouldn't be mandating insurance, at all, but if you're going to let them, you don't get to pick and choose the preventive care they mandate.
A) they have not been mandating insurance. Ever.
B) No one is letting them do this. The administration simply issues regulations from on high.
B) Why shouldn't we the people have a say in how the gov't runs? Has it come to that?
The government has been mandating basic insurance coverage long before Obama became President. The only reason the majority of people are sitting up and saying "wait a second" now is because they happen to mandate something you don't personally agree with.
The government shouldn't be mandating insurance, at all, but if you're going to let them, you don't get to pick and choose the preventive care they mandate.
A) they have not been mandating insurance. Ever.
B) No one is letting them do this. The administration simply issues regulations from on high.
B) Why shouldn't we the people have a say in how the gov't runs? Has it come to that?
As I've already explained, I'm not referring to mandated purchasing, but the federal government, along with the state has regulated what must be covered in basic insurance packages long before Obama was in office. Things like well visits, cancer screenings and shots were already mandated. Obama expanded the coverage to include birth control.
Not really. Because individuals engaged in commerce can't force their religious views on their employees either.
That's exactly what Hobby Lobby and other businesses are arguing for. The owners want to deny their employees reproductive care options because of their own religious convictions, which could hardly be argued as anything else other than forcing their religious vies onto their employees...right?
That can't be seen as anything other than expanding the religious freedom rights of the 1st Amendment to include corporations, which already have been deemed "persons" in the legal sense.
Where does this end? Once the law accepts the rights of corporations as being equal to Constitutional rights of individuals, does that mean no member of a corporation may be forced to testify against that corporation (5th Amendment) or that a corporation has the right to arm its employees (2nd Amendment)? Does that mean a Muslim business owner may impose the Sharia punishment for theft from the corporation and claim his religious liberty to do so? Can a Muslim employer require his female employees to wear a bur qua on the job?
Somebody needs to really seriously think this through before we go any farther.
A) they have not been mandating insurance. Ever.
B) No one is letting them do this. The administration simply issues regulations from on high.
B) Why shouldn't we the people have a say in how the gov't runs? Has it come to that?
As I've already explained, I'm not referring to mandated purchasing, but the federal government, along with the state has regulated what must be covered in basic insurance packages long before Obama was in office. Things like well visits, cancer screenings and shots were already mandated. Obama expanded the coverage to include birth control.
The states regulated private insurance not the federal government and it's stupid to have mandates anyway, people should be able to tailor policies according to their own needs
Not seeing a problem here.
As I've already explained, I'm not referring to mandated purchasing, but the federal government, along with the state has regulated what must be covered in basic insurance packages long before Obama was in office. Things like well visits, cancer screenings and shots were already mandated. Obama expanded the coverage to include birth control.
The states regulated private insurance not the federal government and it's stupid to have mandates anyway, people should be able to tailor policies according to their own needs
Not it needs repeating but the federal gov't never mandated benefits. Ever.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything against their religion in this case.
Some people are trying to force their religious opinions down all their employee's throats and the DOJ is saying nope.
I am a Christian, but I am against abortion based on legal grounds not religious grounds. No one has the right to force their religious views on anyone else.
The states regulated private insurance not the federal government and it's stupid to have mandates anyway, people should be able to tailor policies according to their own needs
Not it needs repeating but the federal gov't never mandated benefits. Ever.
HIPPA, ERISA, COBRA
All federal regulations on private insurance, and yes, basic preventive benefits had been added.
http://www.allhealth.org/briefingmaterials/HealthInsuranceReportKofmanandPollitz-95.pdf
Hence why whenever you read about the contraception debate, it alsmost always talks about Obama "expanding" requirments to birth control.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything against their religion in this case.
Some people are trying to force their religious opinions down all their employee's throats and the DOJ is saying nope.
I am a Christian, but I am against abortion based on legal grounds not religious grounds. No one has the right to force their religious views on anyone else.
No one is forcing religion down anyone's throat. No employer is saying their employees cannot have an abortion or use birth control. Not one.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything against their religion in this case.
Some people are trying to force their religious opinions down all their employee's throats and the DOJ is saying nope.
I am a Christian, but I am against abortion based on legal grounds not religious grounds. No one has the right to force their religious views on anyone else.
No one is forcing religion down anyone's throat. No employer is saying their employees cannot have an abortion or use birth control. Not one.
That is exactly what they are trying to mandate.
Not seeing a problem here.
If she's a doctor, she's practicing medicine, not religion.
If she wants to practice medicine, go to a seminary or theology school and major in Magic Sky Pixies to her heart's content.
But if she puts on the white smock and calls herself a doctor, she needs to practice medicine. Period.
Not really. Because individuals engaged in commerce can't force their religious views on their employees either.
That's exactly what Hobby Lobby and other businesses are arguing for. The owners want to deny their employees reproductive care options because of their own religious convictions, which could hardly be argued as anything else other than forcing their religious vies onto their employees...right?
That can't be seen as anything other than expanding the religious freedom rights of the 1st Amendment to include corporations, which already have been deemed "persons" in the legal sense.
Where does this end? Once the law accepts the rights of corporations as being equal to Constitutional rights of individuals, does that mean no member of a corporation may be forced to testify against that corporation (5th Amendment) or that a corporation has the right to arm its employees (2nd Amendment)? Does that mean a Muslim business owner may impose the Sharia punishment for theft from the corporation and claim his religious liberty to do so? Can a Muslim employer require his female employees to wear a bur qua on the job?
Somebody needs to really seriously think this through before we go any farther.
I'm not arguing that. I'm just noting that the established precedent (United States v. Lee 1982) is that individuals engaged in commerce may not refuse to abide by an employment TAX on religious grounds, so obviously corporations may not either.
As this is so obviously settled precedent (unless some absurd judicial activism were to take place) I can only assume that Hobby Lobby is trying to establish brand recognition by getting their name on SCOTUS case law.
