Eliminate all poverty!

[bripat9643]

The western lifestyle in it's present form is impossible without exploiting the economically and politically impoverished nations of the developing world.

The western lifestyle produced the vaccines and food surplus that allowed the populations of the "developing world" to explode beyond any capacity of the planet to sustain them.

We are seeing the results of all those feelgood programs that used to hit us up in elementary school, so we could feel like we were "saving the poor children in Africa, Asia and the Middle East".

Yes, little children your nickels and dimes went to create a population crisis that will result in the descendants of the people you "saved from disease and starvation" eating your livers.

That is absolute nonsense - there is no shortage of resources in the world at all. There is plenty of land, water and everything else.

The problem is maldistribution of those resources.

I'm not suggesting forceable redistribution here - I am just saying that the fact is, people in the west consume more than they need, and that means people elsewhere do not have access to that land, that food or that water.

"Maldistribution" isn't the problem. Lack of production in some locals is the problem.

 

[bripat9643]

BriPat -

There is actually very little paganism in Africa. There is some vodun/voodoo in countries like Benin, Togo and Sierra Leone, but of the 51 countries in Africa, I would guess that 40 are dominated by either Christianity or Islam.

I think their conversion to Christianity is fairly recent.

 

[Saigon]

"Maldistribution" isn't the problem. Lack of production in some locals is the problem.

This is also a major cause of povrty, I agree, but it is difficult to tell people not to be lazy and to pull themselves up by the bootstraps if they have no access to education, healthcare, land or housing.

Maldistribution is perhaps the single greatest factor in creating poverty in a society like Nigeria, where it is estimated that US$35 billion has been stolen from oil payments. That money has probably been channelled to a couple of hundred people in a country where the average income may well be US$100 per annum or less.

 

[Saigon]

I think their conversion to Christianity is fairly recent.

No, some of it dates back to the 15th century, actually.

Countries like Portugal and Spain brought the bible with them, as did the Dutch, the British and even Scandinavians.

 

[Manonthestreet]

and then the whole planet would look like the bottom picture......dont you get either we have to be poor or they have to........its dirty job saving gaia but someone has to do it..........right libs

 

[bripat9643]

"Maldistribution" isn't the problem. Lack of production in some locals is the problem.

This is also a major cause of povrty, I agree, but it is difficult to tell people not to be lazy and to pull themselves up by the bootstraps if they have no access to education, healthcare, land or housing.

Maldistribution is perhaps the single greatest factor in creating poverty in a society like Nigeria, where it is estimated that US$35 billion has been stolen from oil payments. That money has probably been channelled to a couple of hundred people in a country where the average income may well be US$100 per annum or less.

Singapore doesn't have a drop of oil, but it's fabulously wealthy. What you explained above it that the Nigerian government if profoundly corrupt. That's what happens when you allow government to control a country's wealth. Government is the cause of all "maldistribution" - looting, in other words.

 

[bripat9643]

I think their conversion to Christianity is fairly recent.

No, some of it dates back to the 15th century, actually.

Countries like Portugal and Spain brought the bible with them, as did the Dutch, the British and even Scandinavians.

Europeans didn't make significant penetrations into Africa until the 19th Century. Their activities were relegated almost entirely to the coast. Ethiopia, on the other hand, has had Christianity for at least 1500 years.

 

[Roadrunner]

The western lifestyle in it's present form is impossible without exploiting the economically and politically impoverished nations of the developing world.

The western lifestyle produced the vaccines and food surplus that allowed the populations of the "developing world" to explode beyond any capacity of the planet to sustain them.

We are seeing the results of all those feelgood programs that used to hit us up in elementary school, so we could feel like we were "saving the poor children in Africa, Asia and the Middle East".

Yes, little children your nickels and dimes went to create a population crisis that will result in the descendants of the people you "saved from disease and starvation" eating your livers.

That is absolute nonsense - there is no shortage of resources in the world at all. There is plenty of land, water and everything else.

The problem is maldistribution of those resources.

I'm not suggesting forceable redistribution here - I am just saying that the fact is, people in the west consume more than they need, and that means people elsewhere do not have access to that land, that food or that water.

"Maldistribution" isn't the problem. Lack of production in some locals is the problem.

Instead of raising minimum wage, why not raise maximum output, starting with high schools making sure kids know something before they graduate, instead of having to take remediation or go to crappy Community Colleges, which are in fact remedial education at best.

 

[Roadrunner]

"Maldistribution" isn't the problem. Lack of production in some locals is the problem.

This is also a major cause of povrty, I agree, but it is difficult to tell people not to be lazy and to pull themselves up by the bootstraps if they have no access to education, healthcare, land or housing.

Maldistribution is perhaps the single greatest factor in creating poverty in a society like Nigeria, where it is estimated that US$35 billion has been stolen from oil payments. That money has probably been channelled to a couple of hundred people in a country where the average income may well be US$100 per annum or less.

Singapore doesn't have a drop of oil, but it's fabulously wealthy. What you explained above it that the Nigerian government if profoundly corrupt. That's what happens when you allow government to control a country's wealth. Government is the cause of all "maldistribution" - looting, in other words.

Let you pants droop and show your ass in Singapore, and a cop with a cane will beat your ass so red and raw it will swell up so badly those pants won't drop for a month.

 

[Saigon]

Europeans didn't make significant penetrations into Africa until the 19th Century. Their activities were relegated almost entirely to the coast. Ethiopia, on the other hand, has had Christianity for at least 1500 years.

Clearly your knowledge of Africa is far greater than mine. In your mind, anyway.

 

[Saigon]

Singapore doesn't have a drop of oil, but it's fabulously wealthy. What you explained above it that the Nigerian government if profoundly corrupt. That's what happens when you allow government to control a country's wealth. Government is the cause of all "maldistribution" - looting, in other words.

Singapore has succeeded because of massive investment in education and infrastructure. It has the world's largest port and one of the largest airports in the world. It also ranks in the top five in the world in tourism. It is also about 25 miles long.

It is a miracle, and much of it is due to plain hard work, but it has been blessed by geography and a few other things that Burundi does not have.

Nigeria's wealth is not largely controlled by the state, but through various quangos and private companies. Few of them pay much in the way of taxes and much of the wealth is held offshore. The favourite passtime of Nigeria's elite is shopping in London.

This means that Nigeria derives almost no benefit at all from some of the largest private companies in Africa. The wealth is held and controlled by a tiny elite, very often Yoruba, who have little interest in whether the Ibo live or die.

To me this is unsustainable, and the main reason that Nigeria is the worst country on the continent to live in.

 

[Saigon]

Let you pants droop and show your ass in Singapore, and a cop with a cane will beat your ass so red and raw it will swell up so badly those pants won't drop for a month.

What garbage you post, child. Singapore is probably the safest country in the world.

 

[bripat9643]

Singapore doesn't have a drop of oil, but it's fabulously wealthy. What you explained above it that the Nigerian government if profoundly corrupt. That's what happens when you allow government to control a country's wealth. Government is the cause of all "maldistribution" - looting, in other words.

Singapore has succeeded because of massive investment in education and infrastructure. It has the world's largest port and one of the largest airports in the world. It also ranks in the top five in the world in tourism. It is also about 25 miles long.

It is a miracle, and much of it is due to plain hard work, but it has been blessed by geography and a few other things that Burundi does not have.

Nigeria's wealth is not largely controlled by the state, but through various quangos and private companies. Few of them pay much in the way of taxes and much of the wealth is held offshore. The favourite passtime of Nigeria's elite is shopping in London.

This means that Nigeria derives almost no benefit at all from some of the largest private companies in Africa. The wealth is held and controlled by a tiny elite, very often Yoruba, who have little interest in whether the Ibo live or die.

To me this is unsustainable, and the main reason that Nigeria is the worst country on the continent to live in.

From perusing the internet, it appears that Quangos are arms of the government, so your post doesn't contradict what I said. Wiki also says that 83% of government revenue comes from oil production.

Lot's of countries are blessed with natural resources but remain poor. Take most of the countries in Latin America, for instance. Brasil, Argentina, Colombia, Bolivia, Venezuala and Mexico all have abundant natural resources, but they are still poor.

Other countries, on the other hand, have few natural resources but are rich. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Luxembourg, Singapore are all rich and have no natural resources to speak of. Obviously natural resources are not what makes a country wealthy.

You said Singapore succeeded because of massive investment in education? Where did the investment money come from? The fact is Singapore succeeded because the government, for the most part, had a hands-off policy with regard to business.

 

[Cross]

Its the citizens of Commie countries themselves that turned out the Communists... deal with that..there aren't any countries left that haven't adopted some of the Capitalist concepts...

 

[bripat9643]

Let you pants droop and show your ass in Singapore, and a cop with a cane will beat your ass so red and raw it will swell up so badly those pants won't drop for a month.

What garbage you post, child. Singapore is probably the safest country in the world.

They do have a very strict system of law enforcement.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So people in other countries dont have access to our land,food and water?
Gee,I wonder why?

Because the ownership of land is clustered in the hands of a tiny, powerful and often corrupt elite who use it for their own businesses - for instance exporting flowers, meat or crops. I see a lot of this in Kenya, Mozambique and Tanzania, for instance.

A lot of land is also held by government authorities that have little interest in allowing its use for entrepreneurialism or for the benefit of the community.

And here I thought they didnt have access because they are thousands of miles away and would need to cross oceans in order to have access.
Silly me.....

 

[Saigon]

From perusing the internet, it appears that Quangos are arms of the government,

Quasi autonomous non-governmental authorities.

Many of the 'companies' dealing with the oil business in Nigeria are strange hybrids combining foreign direct investment with local ownership - apparently largely to facilitate theft without the money needing to be directed via any specific ministry.

As you say - ,any countries have resources but remain poor, and one of the primary reasons for that (after corruption) is th concentration of wealth in the hands of the few. Brazil and Mexico have the amongst the worse records on the world on wealth distribution with the obvious result of grinding poverty and high crime. But there is good news here - the US is fast catching up to them on wealth non-distribution.

Of the five wealthy countries you mention, three are city states. On earns its money from banking, one from its ports and airport. Yes, they are all succeesful, though Japan and Korea are not entirely without natural resources. The key in both cases is terrific (state-funded) education and universal healthcare, combined with an independent judiciary and a culture of hard work. I also admire their entrepreneurialism and success, and they are role models for others, but its not a model easy to apply in countries in Africa.

 

[bripat9643]

From perusing the internet, it appears that Quangos are arms of the government,

Quasi autonomous non-governmental authorities.

They were created by the government, and they can be abolished by the government. Therefore, they are arms of the government. There certainly isn't anything "private" about them.

Many of the 'companies' dealing with the oil business in Nigeria are strange hybrids combining foreign direct investment with local ownership - apparently largely to facilitate theft without the money needing to be directed via any specific ministry.

Government involvement is what makes them corrupt. Nigeria should have simply sold off the oil leases or charged a royalty on every barrel.

As you say - ,any countries have resources but remain poor, and one of the primary reasons for that (after corruption) is th concentration of wealth in the hands of the few. Brazil and Mexico have the amongst the worse records on the world on wealth distribution with the obvious result of grinding poverty and high crime. But there is good news here - the US is fast catching up to them on wealth non-distribution.

No, government interference is the primary reason. Massive poverty is the result of socialism, not capitalism. Governments like the one in Mexico are little more than machines for extorting wealth from private companies. The bribery and corruption used to accomplish this purpose stunts the growth of Mexico's economy. Any time someone tries to start a business a dozen government officials come by with their hands out.

Of the five wealthy countries you mention, three are city states. On earns its money from banking, one from its ports and airport. Yes, they are all succeesful, though Japan and Korea are not entirely without natural resources. The key in both cases is terrific (state-funded) education and universal healthcare, combined with an independent judiciary and a culture of hard work. I also admire their entrepreneurialism and success, and they are role models for others, but its not a model easy to apply in countries in Africa.

No, that isn't the key. Capitalism is the key. Good education and healthcare are the products of a wealthy economy, not the cause. Of course, since you're a socialist, you are never going to admit that socialism causes poverty.

 

[Anathema]

The western lifestyle in it's present form is impossible without exploiting the economically and politically impoverished nations of the developing world.

Too bad for them. They're reaping the rewards for their own incompetence and lack of vision.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And yet a look at a list of the poorest countries on earth shows largely Christian countries. Why is that?

poorest countries are in Africa!! You must think before you post.