Zone1 Embryos and Personhood

[EvilCat Breath]

And this ruling is taking all of that away. Choice means that the embryos can be destroyed. Personhood means no.

Choice does not mean anyone can make the choice to destroy the embryos.

 

[PeterPilot]

Choice does not mean anyone can make the choice to destroy the embryos.

Are you attempting to redefine terms and words?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Are you attempting to redefine terms and words?

Who makes the choice to destroy the embryos? The parents, or a clumsy aide? Can anyone decide that embryos should be destroyed?

 

[PeterPilot]

Who makes the choice to destroy the embryos? The parents, or a clumsy aide? Can anyone decide that embryos should be destroyed?

You seem involved in a type of mental masturbation called semantics. You avoid reality.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

You seem involved in a type of mental masturbation called semantics. You avoid reality.

The reality in this case is, the wanted children of this couple were killed by the negligence of a lab employee. To you, the deaths were a choice. Whose choice?

 

[Dragonlady]

This got started by a women who walked into a freezer and dropped some embryos and destroyed them... the donors or parents if you will asked to sue for wrongful death... the judge said yes you may... this is all that is... the left and their media of course want to try and link it to abortion rights and it has nothing to do with that...
Trump to his credit didn't fall for it...

It's not the left and their media, it's the doctors who immediately shut down their IVF operations for fear of being held liable for killing embryos, because the entire IVF industry treats these embryos as disposable, creating as many embryos as they can from the harvested eggs, and discarding the unused ones.

If embryos are now "people", they can't kill them, either accidentally or on purpose and the IVF doctors and their staff can't be held legally liable for their deaths. They shut down their clinics out of fear of arrest.

 

[Dragonlady]

The reality in this case is, the wanted children of this couple were killed by the negligence of a lab employee. To you, the deaths were a choice. Whose choice?

They weren't "children". They were tissue.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

They weren't "children". They were tissue.

Not according to the judge.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A bizarre decision by one court. And a totally sole and separate issue from abortion. These are couples spending lots of money trying to have a baby. They are entitled to compensation if their frozen embryos are destroyed. Period.

Only because the bizarre state already put it right into its bizarre constitution in 2018 that fetuses and embryos enjoy personhood.
.
Bizarre, right?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Absent Federal laws, it’s the state’s call. But at conception it is scientifically correct to say a new, genetically distinct human being has come into existence. One that has never existed before and will never exist again.

But it has not attained personhood, only fetushood.

 

[Rambunctious]

It's not the left and their media, it's the doctors who immediately shut down their IVF operations for fear of being held liable for killing embryos, because the entire IVF industry treats these embryos as disposable, creating as many embryos as they can from the harvested eggs, and discarding the unused ones.

If embryos are now "people", they can't kill them, either accidentally or on purpose and the IVF doctors and their staff can't be held legally liable for their deaths. They shut down their clinics out of fear of arrest.

Well what they will ultimately have to do is to get people to sign disclaimers and go back to where they were but protected legally.... I'm predicting this will be the case... but not one bit of this is political and if the lib media tries to make it political there will be a backlash.... just like the bloodbath backlashing they got for lying last week....

 

[ding]

But it has not attained personhood, only fetushood.

It's unique DNA says otherwise; a specific person that has never existed before and will never exist again. Albeit in the earliest stage of its human life cycle.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The issue of abortion is one of competing rights

There is no "right" to kill an innocent PERSON

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no "right" to kill an innocent PERSON

Don't get an abortion and mind your business, then. Your personal religious fetishes are your own.

 

[Dragonlady]

Well what they will ultimately have to do is to get people to sign disclaimers and go back to where they were but protected legally.... I'm predicting this will be the case... but not one bit of this is political and if the lib media tries to make it political there will be a backlash.... just like the bloodbath backlashing they got for lying last week....

It's the state government that has declared that human life begins at conception and an embryo meets that definition of human life. And the State Court which found the IVF Clinic legally liable for the deaths of this couple's "children", when a lab worker dropped a test tube.

You can't pin this one on the "liberal media" any more than you can blame liberals for your rapidly rising death rates from the complications of pregnancy and childbirth.

 

[Dragonlady]

There is no "right" to kill an innocent PERSON

A fetus isn't a "PERSON', innocent or otherwise. A fetus is a "potential person". But a REAL person, will have to gestate, give birth to, and raise that potential person, in the event, it's mother is able to carry it to term, and you never even mention HER rights, obligations, or health in all of this.

1/3 of these little zygotes won't make it. Miscarriages will end most of these pregnancies as spontaneous abortions, in the first trimester. Another 200,000 American pregnancies end in the second trimester. And a further 200,000 pregnancies end in the third trimester, but if the fetus dies, it's called a "stillbirth".

There is no right to stand by and let women die either. Where is THEIR right to treatment? A Texas woman wasn't allowed to terminate an ectopic pregnancy, because she hadn't demonstrated that she was in danger of dying. In other words, she had to be bleeding out, before they will allow her to terminate the pregnancy. Which is exactly what happened to a Texas woman who's doctor admitted her to hospital with an ectopic pregnancy and waited for her tube to burst. She nearly bled out and died even though she was in hospital when it happened. The couldn't operate until the fetal heart stopped beating.

When abortion is banned, miscarriages are suspect. Like that woman in Tennessee who was turned away at the hospital when she started to miscarry, and then charged with an indignity to a corpse when she miscarried in a public washroom and nearly died.

Campaign life, your name's a lie, you don't care if women die.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

It's unique DNA says otherwise; a specific person that has never existed before and will never exist again. Albeit in the earliest stage of its human life cycle.

Oh, if only you could make the rules, but my friend, you can't.

 

[Dragonlady]

It's unique DNA says otherwise; a specific person that has never existed before and will never exist again. Albeit in the earliest stage of its human life cycle.

Until it is able to live and breathe on it's own, it is not a "person", and while we may mourn the babies that never were, it's something that women are taught to accept. We have to. We're told not to get too excited, not to tell people, until the first trimester is past.

We don't name them, and we're not allowed to mourn them if they don't make it. But if for some reason, we cannot carry these little ones to term, we're "murders". God gave women free will, and the ability to stop a pregnancy that is ill-timed. In times of famine, or war, or disease, we can stop the pregnancy, and wait for a better time, because raising small humans is a huge life-long commitment and in fairness to your children, one you should be in the best place possible to undertake.

 

[Rambunctious]

It's the state government that has declared that human life begins at conception and an embryo meets that definition of human life. And the State Court which found the IVF Clinic legally liable for the deaths of this couple's "children", when a lab worker dropped a test tube.

You can't pin this one on the "liberal media" any more than you can blame liberals for your rapidly rising death rates from the complications of pregnancy and childbirth.

People with embryos stored need to know they are safe and won't be destroyed and now they can feel confidant that is the case... stop with the politicization of everything... not everything is political... grow up....

 

[ding]

Oh, if only you could make the rules, but my friend, you can't.

I think you have that backwards. I'm not the one making an arbitrary designation of personhood. DNA is used by courts to identify specific persons.