Ethics: Finding valuable property or money

[Delta4Embassy]

Using the California couple who discovered a treasure trove buried on their property as example, is selling the gold coins ethical? Did they try at all to find the owner? Presumedly someone buried it there way back, or more likely stole it then buried it. But if it was stolen, I'd think the law requires returning it, not my area of knowledge though. But let's assume someone saved it up over a lifetime and buried it as their bank. If not looking for family still around and returning their ancestor's property unethical?

I say yes. They should have returned it. Money of that amount isn't hard to find the rightful owner to. Or some living descendent. Better to return it and be thanked, possibly rewarded with your honor intact, than effectively steal it insofar as conscience informs, if not in the eyes of the law which probably allows you to keep it.

I found $28 in a wallet as a kid and kept it, much to my chagrin to this day. If I found $10M in gold coins I'd not keep a dime, my conscience wouldn't allow me to. If I couldn't find a rightful owner I'd at least set up some kinf of local trust so the money benefits the area in which it was found like buying any public land and making it a reserve or an educaitonal fund for local students, something more than merely pocketing it.

 

[Moonglow]

finders keepers...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It's in their backyard. It's theirs. When they bought the home and land it sits on they bought everything that remained on it as well as what's underneath. End of story.

 

[pacer]

Using the California couple who discovered a treasure trove buried on their property as example, is selling the gold coins ethical? Did they try at all to find the owner? Presumedly someone buried it there way back, or more likely stole it then buried it. But if it was stolen, I'd think the law requires returning it, not my area of knowledge though. But let's assume someone saved it up over a lifetime and buried it as their bank. If not looking for family still around and returning their ancestor's property unethical?

I say yes. They should have returned it. Money of that amount isn't hard to find the rightful owner to. Or some living descendent. Better to return it and be thanked, possibly rewarded with your honor intact, than effectively steal it insofar as conscience informs, if not in the eyes of the law which probably allows you to keep it.

I found $28 in a wallet as a kid and kept it, much to my chagrin to this day. If I found $10M in gold coins I'd not keep a dime, my conscience wouldn't allow me to. If I couldn't find a rightful owner I'd at least set up some kinf of local trust so the money benefits the area in which it was found like buying any public land and making it a reserve or an educaitonal fund for local students, something more than merely pocketing it.

Dozens of people would show up claiming it was theirs. lol How would you prove who the rightful owner is?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

1. The CA couple is the owner
2. Never, ever, never, ever announce it.
3. Never
4. Ever

My brother found a Revolutionary War cannonball in our backyard when we lived in the Bronx. We brought it into school and the history professor told us that British troops had landed not too far from where we lived, trying marching through the Bronx, gave up and got back on their ships.

Moral of the story: Don't fuck with the Bronx

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Here's a lesson on finding money, Delta. When visiting my son in another state years ago we took a walk to a nearby store. On the way we found a ten dollar bill on the ground. I told him I think we should leave it because whoever lost it is going to retrace their steps and find it again. He agreed and we left it there. What if the owner doesn't return and find the bill? Doesn't matter. We left the opportunity open for it by leaving it there on the ground. Divine providence took it from there... G-d sees everything.

Here's another story. A christian woman told me her son had left home to go off with some wild bunch and found himself in trouble. He had been staying at their house when the police busted it for something and he was there when they came in. He said the police didn't see him - it was as if they didn't even notice him. After they left - he left immediately with only his clothing on his back. While on the highway trying to hitchhike home he prayed and asked God to help him get back home.

As he was walking the sun hit something very shiny and he stopped to see what it was. It was a gold coin that was quite valuable. A single gold coin. He took the coin, went to a pawn shop and bought a bus ticket home. He told his mother had he not found the coin he didn't know if he would have ever made it home. No one was stopping to give him a ride. So there are two sides of the "coin" for ya, Delta.

Have a nice day.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

What the law allows, and what's right may well be different. Our conscience informs us when they're different. Used to be lawful to discriminate and enslave blacks, but it wasn't right. Just because the law's on your side, doesn't mean you're in the right.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

From a purely spiritual pov - void of legal rights - I would still say the person who found gold on their property owns it and should consider it a blessing. Enjoy it and spend it however. I don't believe ANY of my Jewish or Christian brethren would disagree with me on that one. This one is guilt - free. Mazel Tov!

 

[Delta4Embassy]

From a purely spiritual pov - void of legal rights - I would still say the person who found gold on their property owns it and should consider it a blessing. Enjoy it and spend it however. I don't believe ANY of my Jewish or Christian brethren would disagree with me on that one. This one is guilt - free. Mazel Tov!

As a Jew, I disagree. Every attempt should be made at locating the rightful owner, or surviving family member to take possession of it. If none exists or can be located after some fair length of time, use the money to benefit the area it was found via public trust or educational fund. But keeping it 'becuase I found it on my property' is simply a legally excused form of theft.

 

[Chuckt]

Using the California couple who discovered a treasure trove buried on their property as example, is selling the gold coins ethical?

I donated food for the poor for Thanksgiving through my company one year and one of my co-workers at work kept most or all of it. Then he had the audacity to offer it to me when I came in to work in the morning.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Using the California couple who discovered a treasure trove buried on their property as example, is selling the gold coins ethical?

I donated food for the poor for Thanksgiving through my company one year and one of my co-workers at work kept most or all of it. Then he had the audacity to offer it to me when I came in to work in the morning.

I face a similar connundrum every time I go grocery shopping. Bringing the bags in from the car I prop my apartment door open and am out of sight of it for up to a minute bringing in the next load. In that time anyone walking down the hall could walk into my apartment and steal from me, or much more easily steal the bags of groceries right there holding open my front door.

My thinking is, anyone stealing food from their own neighbor needed it more than I did. Long as they don't steal the bag with my beef jerky in it, I'm cool with it.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

From a purely spiritual pov - void of legal rights - I would still say the person who found gold on their property owns it and should consider it a blessing. Enjoy it and spend it however. I don't believe ANY of my Jewish or Christian brethren would disagree with me on that one. This one is guilt - free. Mazel Tov!

As a Jew, I disagree. Every attempt should be made at locating the rightful owner, or surviving family member to take possession of it. If none exists or can be located after some fair length of time, use the money to benefit the area it was found via public trust or educational fund. But keeping it 'becuase I found it on my property' is simply a legally excused form of theft.

As an individual you may disagree but as a Jew you have no grounds to disagree on. There has been no sin commited.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Theft is a sin. Retrieving property someone obviously placed there for safe-keeping and keeping it IS theologically theft. May not be legally being on our propety, but theologically it's stealing. Ask any 10 clergy persons and I guarantee you all 10 will agree with me.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Theft is a sin. Retrieving property someone obviously placed there for safe-keeping and keeping it IS theologically theft. May not be legally being on our propety, but theologically it's stealing. Ask any 10 clergy persons and I guarantee you all 10 will agree with me.

It isn't theft when it's purchased. They bought it. Get over it and go find something else to fret over.

p.s. you cannot even find someone here to agree with you much less round up 10 clergy persons to agree with you.

 

[PostmodernProph]

From a purely spiritual pov - void of legal rights - I would still say the person who found gold on their property owns it and should consider it a blessing. Enjoy it and spend it however. I don't believe ANY of my Jewish or Christian brethren would disagree with me on that one. This one is guilt - free. Mazel Tov!

As a Jew, I disagree. Every attempt should be made at locating the rightful owner, or surviving family member to take possession of it. If none exists or can be located after some fair length of time, use the money to benefit the area it was found via public trust or educational fund. But keeping it 'becuase I found it on my property' is simply a legally excused form of theft.

if you discovered oil under your property would you donate it to a public trust?.......

 

[hotpotato]

Theft is a sin?
Then why did Jesus tell his disciples to take a donkey that was not his?
The law of do as I say not do as I do!
Good on the couple, if they have any sense they won't donate any of the money to the church!

 

[Chuckt]

Theft is a sin. Retrieving property someone obviously placed there for safe-keeping and keeping it IS theologically theft. May not be legally being on our propety, but theologically it's stealing. Ask any 10 clergy persons and I guarantee you all 10 will agree with me.

There is no finders keepers losers weepers in the Bible and there is more I have to research:

The problem, however, is not simply that people “pass by on the other side” when others suffer misfortune (cf. Luke 10:31–32) but that some ac- tually take advantage of the circumstances to their own benefit. Cattle were of great value in the ancient world, and someone might well be tempted to take possession of a lost animal if its ownership was unknown. Finders keepers? Clearly not. To do this would be equivalent to stealing (cf. Exod 22:9, Lev 6:2–7). The ancient Near Eastern laws expect the finder of lost property to take reasonable steps to return it, if the owner is known, and otherwise to report the matter to the authorities. In the case of a lost animal, the finder is responsible for taking care of the animal until it can be returned. The parallel texts in Exodus and Deuteronomy agree with this principle and go beyond it. Far from acquiescing to opportunism, they encourage members of the covenant community to look for opportunities to help others, even enemies.28

Finders Keepers? Lost Property in Ancient Near Eastern and Biblical Law
david l. baker tyndale house, cambridge

I haven't figured out how to find the URL of this PDF in Windows 8 so this is all the credit I can give. I think there are more scriptures in Proverbs or Psalms that talk about returning lost property and when I find it, I may post it.

 

[Chuckt]

Theft is a sin?
Then why did Jesus tell his disciples to take a donkey that was not his?
The law of do as I say not do as I do!
Good on the couple, if they have any sense they won't donate any of the money to the church!

Cause as God it is all ultimately His and he had a message for the man if he asked about it so obviously he may have been praying about it and the answer Jesus might have given may have been the answer to the man's prayer and may have included information about what the man had been praying.

 

[Pop23]

What the law allows, and what's right may well be different. Our conscience informs us when they're different. Used to be lawful to discriminate and enslave blacks, but it wasn't right. Just because the law's on your side, doesn't mean you're in the right.

Wrong, they are both right and ethical. It is no different than if they struck oil and owned the mineral rights to the property. If the former owners just didn't know the oil was there means nothing.

 

[Zander]

Finders keepers....fuck off.