Evidence for Design #1 - Complexity, irreducible and otherwise

[alang1216]

So how many existences are there? I say the answer is that there is only one existence. How many existences do you believe there are?

So far as I know, there is only one. Mine.

 

[alang1216]

Except I can prove it and you can't.

Except you can't. You can play word games and copy/paste snippets that support your position but that is a long way from proof.

 

[ding]

So far as I know, there is only one. Mine.

So we are in agreement that there is only one existence but disagree on the nature of existence.

Does existence have a beginning and an end?

 

[ding]

Except you can't. You can play word games and copy/paste snippets that support your position but that is a long way from proof.

Quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle are not word games.

 

[alang1216]

So we are in agreement that there is only one existence but disagree on the nature of existence.

Does existence have a beginning and an end?

Mine? Yes. The universe's? Maybe, I see no evidence for either.

 

[alang1216]

Quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle are not word games.

True. The question is are they the appropriate words?

 

[ding]

Mine? Yes. The universe's? Maybe, I see no evidence for either.

Do you believe that something existed before you existed?

 

[ding]

True. The question is are they the appropriate words?

And how would the words "quantum mechanics" and "the uncertainty principle" be inappropriate to the statements that....

What we perceive as reality is a product of consciousness. The behavior of sub atomic particles - for that matter all particles and objects - is inextricably linked to the presence of a conscious observer. Without a conscious observer they exist in an undetermined state of probability waves. Without consciousness matter dwells in an undetermined state of probability. Any universe preceding consciousness only existed in a probability state. The universe is explainable only through consciousness. ​

That is what we are discussing, right?

 

[alang1216]

Do you believe that something existed before you existed?

Yes. I have pictures to prove it.

 

[alang1216]

And how would the words "quantum mechanics" and "the uncertainty principle" be inappropriate to the statements that....

What we perceive as reality is a product of consciousness. The behavior of sub atomic particles - for that matter all particles and objects - is inextricably linked to the presence of a conscious observer. Without a conscious observer they exist in an undetermined state of probability waves. Without consciousness matter dwells in an undetermined state of probability. Any universe preceding consciousness only existed in a probability state. The universe is explainable only through consciousness. ​

That is what we are discussing, right?

I'm no expert but from the little I know you are using the Heisenberg uncertainly principle inappropriately.

What we perceive as reality is a product of consciousness.
- Our consciousness.

The behavior of sub atomic particles - for that matter all particles and objects - is inextricably linked to the presence of a conscious observer. Without a conscious observer they exist in an undetermined state of probability waves. Without consciousness matter dwells in an undetermined state of probability.
- I think it is not the behavior but the measurement or understanding that comes from the observer

Any universe preceding consciousness only existed in a probability state. The universe is explainable only through consciousness.
- This is the tree falls in the forest again. Sound waves are generated regardless if there is a consciousness there to intercept them.

 

[ding]

Yes. I have pictures to prove it.

So when I asked you in post # 179 how many existences are there and you said there was only one existence [yours], you were wrong?

So let me ask you again, how many existences are there?

 

[ding]

I'm no expert but from the little I know you are using the Heisenberg uncertainly principle inappropriately.

What we perceive as reality is a product of consciousness.
- Our consciousness.

The behavior of sub atomic particles - for that matter all particles and objects - is inextricably linked to the presence of a conscious observer. Without a conscious observer they exist in an undetermined state of probability waves. Without consciousness matter dwells in an undetermined state of probability.
- I think it is not the behavior but the measurement or understanding that comes from the observer

Any universe preceding consciousness only existed in a probability state. The universe is explainable only through consciousness.
- This is the tree falls in the forest again. Sound waves are generated regardless if there is a consciousness there to intercept them.

You are correct you are no expert, you don't even know how many existences there are.

Not our consciousness, any consciousness. Reality is only made manifest by consciousness. It might as well not even exist without consciousness to observe it and make it manifest.

It is the outcome - or reality - that is made manifest. Until then it's just probability waves doing what probability waves do.

Without consciousness there are no trees, there are no forests. Just probability waves doing what probability waves do.

 

[alang1216]

So when I asked you in post # 179 how many existences are there and you said there was only one existence [yours], you were wrong?

So let me ask you again, how many existences are there?

Let me try again. There are a near infinite number of individual existences. I get only one, you get only one, my dog gets only one, etc.

 

[alang1216]

You are correct you are no expert, you don't even know how many existences there are.

Not our consciousness, any consciousness. Reality is only made manifest by consciousness. It might as well not even exist without consciousness to observe it and make it manifest.

It is the outcome - or reality - that is made manifest. Until then it's just probability waves doing what probability waves do.

Without consciousness there are no trees, there are no forests. Just probability waves doing what probability waves do.

Are you talking about human consciousness? In that case I disagree. If you're talking about the universe's consciousness, I disagree with that too.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's hilarious and sad to see grown men walking around with childish, debunked talking points. Like, even a mild secondary education in the sciences would have prevented this. But for some reason, the most uneducated slobs think they know the most.

 

[ding]

Let me try again. There are a near infinite number of individual existences. I get only one, you get only one, my dog gets only one, etc.

What existed before living things? Was that not existence?

 

[ding]

It's hilarious and sad to see grown men walking around with childish, debunked talking points. Like, even a mild secondary education in the sciences would have prevented this. But for some reason, the most uneducated slobs think they know the most.

Not as sad as small minded people.

 

[ding]

Are you talking about human consciousness? In that case I disagree. If you're talking about the universe's consciousness, I disagree with that too.

Why do you believe the uncertainty principle requires human consciousness?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Not as sad as small minded people.

Not so much you, ding. In fact, I don't see any conflict between your version of creationism and science. And what you are saying might be true. Just as rainbow unicorns might have shit out the universe after a huge Taco Bell meal.

The small minded people are the deniers. they are the ones who cling to beliefs in spite of the evidence and refuse to consider the evidence. That's small minded. That's closed-minded.

 

[ding]

Not so much you, ding. In fact, I don't see any conflict between your version of creationism and science. And what you are saying might be true. Just as rainbow unicorns might have shit out the universe after a huge Taco Bell meal.

The small minded people are the deniers. they are the ones who cling to beliefs in spite of the evidence and refuse to consider the evidence. That's small minded. That's closed-minded.

That's because you have to see it that way. You can't attack it any other way. Bad behaviors like yours cannot be so easily turned off. Some people would call that karma. I just call it normalization of deviance and predictable surprises.