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There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.Donald Trump now says that the "way we left Iraq" led to the rise of ISIS.
Yet, in 2007, when Trump was a registered Democrat, when President Bush was calling for a surge in Iraq, Donald Trump wanted to cut-and-run!
Trump: "Well, I think Bush is probably the worst president in the history of the United States, and I just don't understand how they could have lost that election."
"The rest of the world hates us."
Blitzer: How does the United States get out of this situation?
Trump: You know they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.
"Declare victory, and leave." Cut-and-run.
A lot of the same type of people today who support Trump are the type of people who supported the surge. They also strongly supported President Bush. And they especially hated cut-and-run Democrats like Donald Trump.
In 2008, Trump was demanding Bush be impeached! Trump liked and admired Nancy Pelosi back then, when the Right vehemently hated her.
Trump: "I was surprised that she (Nancy Pelosi) didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost -- it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which, personally, I think would have been a wonderful thing."
Blitzer: "Impeaching him?"
Trump: "Absolutely, for the war, for the war."
Blitzer: "Because of the conduct of the war."
Trump: "Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies. And, I mean, look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant. And they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense. And, yet, Bush got us into this horrible war with lies, by lying, by saying they had weapons of mass destruction, by saying all sorts of things that turned out not to be true."
So here is what I need Trump's Chumps to explain to me: How were Donald Trump's demands for impeachment and his demand we cut-and-run from Iraq any different from what Cindy Sheehan wanted?
Explain to me how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run.
Now...I know your programmed response is, "B-b-b-b-but Clinton!", but spare us that crock of shit. It's a red herring handed to retards to chuck about when they can't explain Trump, and it doesn't answer the question.
Besides, not even Clinton called for Bush to be impeached. Only far left loons like Sheehan and Trump did.
So explain the difference between Trump and Sheehan. And explain Trump's whining about "the way we left Iraq" in the context of his demand we cut-and-run.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
Assange is a whiny commie foreigner who is butt hurt his fellow traveler Sanders didn't win the Democratic nomination. He is suffering under the ridiculous assumption that Sanders had a chance at the nomination and isn't the nominee because he was bushwacked by Clinton.The media no longer bothers to fact check Trump because they would have entire days devoted to exposing all of his lies. Each one would have to come up with a new channel to simply contradict the “hyperbole”.
In a recent interview Julian Assange was asked why Wikileaks isn't digging up info on Donald Trump. He responded that they couldn't find anything to dig up that was any worse than what was coming out of his mouth everyday.
I did explain it to you; perhaps you should explain why you are unable to understand the difference between the conditions in 2007 and in 2011.Cutting and running in 2007 would have resulted in an even WORSE outcome.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.Donald Trump now says that the "way we left Iraq" led to the rise of ISIS.
Yet, in 2007, when Trump was a registered Democrat, when President Bush was calling for a surge in Iraq, Donald Trump wanted to cut-and-run!
Trump: "Well, I think Bush is probably the worst president in the history of the United States, and I just don't understand how they could have lost that election."
"The rest of the world hates us."
Blitzer: How does the United States get out of this situation?
Trump: You know they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.
"Declare victory, and leave." Cut-and-run.
A lot of the same type of people today who support Trump are the type of people who supported the surge. They also strongly supported President Bush. And they especially hated cut-and-run Democrats like Donald Trump.
In 2008, Trump was demanding Bush be impeached! Trump liked and admired Nancy Pelosi back then, when the Right vehemently hated her.
Trump: "I was surprised that she (Nancy Pelosi) didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost -- it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which, personally, I think would have been a wonderful thing."
Blitzer: "Impeaching him?"
Trump: "Absolutely, for the war, for the war."
Blitzer: "Because of the conduct of the war."
Trump: "Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies. And, I mean, look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant. And they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense. And, yet, Bush got us into this horrible war with lies, by lying, by saying they had weapons of mass destruction, by saying all sorts of things that turned out not to be true."
So here is what I need Trump's Chumps to explain to me: How were Donald Trump's demands for impeachment and his demand we cut-and-run from Iraq any different from what Cindy Sheehan wanted?
Explain to me how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run.
Now...I know your programmed response is, "B-b-b-b-but Clinton!", but spare us that crock of shit. It's a red herring handed to retards to chuck about when they can't explain Trump, and it doesn't answer the question.
Besides, not even Clinton called for Bush to be impeached. Only far left loons like Sheehan and Trump did.
So explain the difference between Trump and Sheehan. And explain Trump's whining about "the way we left Iraq" in the context of his demand we cut-and-run.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
Explain how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he wanted to cut-and-run and leave Iraq in even WORSE conditions. Just imagine what the insurgents (Al Qaeda in Iraq) would have done.
Much worse. Much, much worse.
I was over there on active duty. I have no doubt in my military mind that we would have had to fight Hussein again, sooner or later. He wanted a fight, and he was going to get one.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.Donald Trump now says that the "way we left Iraq" led to the rise of ISIS.
Yet, in 2007, when Trump was a registered Democrat, when President Bush was calling for a surge in Iraq, Donald Trump wanted to cut-and-run!
Trump: "Well, I think Bush is probably the worst president in the history of the United States, and I just don't understand how they could have lost that election."
"The rest of the world hates us."
Blitzer: How does the United States get out of this situation?
Trump: You know they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.
"Declare victory, and leave." Cut-and-run.
A lot of the same type of people today who support Trump are the type of people who supported the surge. They also strongly supported President Bush. And they especially hated cut-and-run Democrats like Donald Trump.
In 2008, Trump was demanding Bush be impeached! Trump liked and admired Nancy Pelosi back then, when the Right vehemently hated her.
Trump: "I was surprised that she (Nancy Pelosi) didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost -- it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which, personally, I think would have been a wonderful thing."
Blitzer: "Impeaching him?"
Trump: "Absolutely, for the war, for the war."
Blitzer: "Because of the conduct of the war."
Trump: "Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies. And, I mean, look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant. And they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense. And, yet, Bush got us into this horrible war with lies, by lying, by saying they had weapons of mass destruction, by saying all sorts of things that turned out not to be true."
So here is what I need Trump's Chumps to explain to me: How were Donald Trump's demands for impeachment and his demand we cut-and-run from Iraq any different from what Cindy Sheehan wanted?
Explain to me how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run.
Now...I know your programmed response is, "B-b-b-b-but Clinton!", but spare us that crock of shit. It's a red herring handed to retards to chuck about when they can't explain Trump, and it doesn't answer the question.
Besides, not even Clinton called for Bush to be impeached. Only far left loons like Sheehan and Trump did.
So explain the difference between Trump and Sheehan. And explain Trump's whining about "the way we left Iraq" in the context of his demand we cut-and-run.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
In the final 2 years of Bush II, we (the coalition) lost 1,200 people. It was hardly “stable” politically, militarily, or theologically. Had we kept the same number of troops there, they would still be getting picked off, captured, beheaded, etc…
In the meantime; nobody has come up with one good reason to spill a drop of American blood over there since 2003.
Then what you are saying is that Obama is a liar because with Hillary standing at his side he claimed he was withdrawing the troops because things were so good in Iraq US troops were no longer needed.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.Donald Trump now says that the "way we left Iraq" led to the rise of ISIS.
Yet, in 2007, when Trump was a registered Democrat, when President Bush was calling for a surge in Iraq, Donald Trump wanted to cut-and-run!
Trump: "Well, I think Bush is probably the worst president in the history of the United States, and I just don't understand how they could have lost that election."
"The rest of the world hates us."
Blitzer: How does the United States get out of this situation?
Trump: You know they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.
"Declare victory, and leave." Cut-and-run.
A lot of the same type of people today who support Trump are the type of people who supported the surge. They also strongly supported President Bush. And they especially hated cut-and-run Democrats like Donald Trump.
In 2008, Trump was demanding Bush be impeached! Trump liked and admired Nancy Pelosi back then, when the Right vehemently hated her.
Trump: "I was surprised that she (Nancy Pelosi) didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost -- it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which, personally, I think would have been a wonderful thing."
Blitzer: "Impeaching him?"
Trump: "Absolutely, for the war, for the war."
Blitzer: "Because of the conduct of the war."
Trump: "Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies. And, I mean, look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant. And they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense. And, yet, Bush got us into this horrible war with lies, by lying, by saying they had weapons of mass destruction, by saying all sorts of things that turned out not to be true."
So here is what I need Trump's Chumps to explain to me: How were Donald Trump's demands for impeachment and his demand we cut-and-run from Iraq any different from what Cindy Sheehan wanted?
Explain to me how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run.
Now...I know your programmed response is, "B-b-b-b-but Clinton!", but spare us that crock of shit. It's a red herring handed to retards to chuck about when they can't explain Trump, and it doesn't answer the question.
Besides, not even Clinton called for Bush to be impeached. Only far left loons like Sheehan and Trump did.
So explain the difference between Trump and Sheehan. And explain Trump's whining about "the way we left Iraq" in the context of his demand we cut-and-run.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
In the final 2 years of Bush II, we (the coalition) lost 1,200 people. It was hardly “stable” politically, militarily, or theologically. Had we kept the same number of troops there, they would still be getting picked off, captured, beheaded, etc…
In the meantime; nobody has come up with one good reason to spill a drop of American blood over there since 2003.
I do understand the conditions. More than you will ever know.I did explain it to you; perhaps you should explain why you are unable to understand the difference between the conditions in 2007 and in 2011.Cutting and running in 2007 would have resulted in an even WORSE outcome.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.Donald Trump now says that the "way we left Iraq" led to the rise of ISIS.
Yet, in 2007, when Trump was a registered Democrat, when President Bush was calling for a surge in Iraq, Donald Trump wanted to cut-and-run!
Trump: "Well, I think Bush is probably the worst president in the history of the United States, and I just don't understand how they could have lost that election."
"The rest of the world hates us."
Blitzer: How does the United States get out of this situation?
Trump: You know they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.
"Declare victory, and leave." Cut-and-run.
A lot of the same type of people today who support Trump are the type of people who supported the surge. They also strongly supported President Bush. And they especially hated cut-and-run Democrats like Donald Trump.
In 2008, Trump was demanding Bush be impeached! Trump liked and admired Nancy Pelosi back then, when the Right vehemently hated her.
Trump: "I was surprised that she (Nancy Pelosi) didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost -- it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which, personally, I think would have been a wonderful thing."
Blitzer: "Impeaching him?"
Trump: "Absolutely, for the war, for the war."
Blitzer: "Because of the conduct of the war."
Trump: "Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies. And, I mean, look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant. And they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense. And, yet, Bush got us into this horrible war with lies, by lying, by saying they had weapons of mass destruction, by saying all sorts of things that turned out not to be true."
So here is what I need Trump's Chumps to explain to me: How were Donald Trump's demands for impeachment and his demand we cut-and-run from Iraq any different from what Cindy Sheehan wanted?
Explain to me how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run.
Now...I know your programmed response is, "B-b-b-b-but Clinton!", but spare us that crock of shit. It's a red herring handed to retards to chuck about when they can't explain Trump, and it doesn't answer the question.
Besides, not even Clinton called for Bush to be impeached. Only far left loons like Sheehan and Trump did.
So explain the difference between Trump and Sheehan. And explain Trump's whining about "the way we left Iraq" in the context of his demand we cut-and-run.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
Explain how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he wanted to cut-and-run and leave Iraq in even WORSE conditions. Just imagine what the insurgents (Al Qaeda in Iraq) would have done.
Much worse. Much, much worse.
Assange is a whiny commie foreigner who is butt hurt his fellow traveler Sanders didn't win the Democratic nomination. He is suffering under the ridiculous assumption that Sanders had a chance at the nomination and isn't the nominee because he was bushwacked by Clinton.The media no longer bothers to fact check Trump because they would have entire days devoted to exposing all of his lies. Each one would have to come up with a new channel to simply contradict the “hyperbole”.
In a recent interview Julian Assange was asked why Wikileaks isn't digging up info on Donald Trump. He responded that they couldn't find anything to dig up that was any worse than what was coming out of his mouth everyday.
The fact is, though, Sanders made it as far as he did BECAUSE of Clinton, not in spite of her.
You see, Clinton induces so much nausea even among Democrats that they decided to give Sanders a second look he otherwise would never have gotten. If the Democrats had put up Biden or Warren, Sanders would never have gotten off the launch pad.
You can dispute my argument, but it is undeniable Assange is more angry with Clinton than Trump for the same reason I am more angry with Trump than Clinton.
If your neighbor invites in a guest, and that guest shits all over the carpet and in your neighbor's soup, you would look pretty poorly at that guest.
But if you invited a guest into YOUR house, and your guest shit all over YOUR carpet and in YOUR soup, you would be several magnitudes more angry at YOUR guest than with your neighbor's guest.
Trump has shit all over the GOP carpet and in the GOP's soup. As a Republican, he pisses me off way more than the Democratic carpet shitter, Clinton.
It's just the opposite with Assange. He is more angry at Clinton, and so he devotes most of his energy attacking her instead of Trump. This foreign interventionist is trying to get her out of the Democratic house.
When you approach Assange from the understanding that he is a dyed-in-the-wool Marxist, the reasoning behind everything he does becomes crystal clear.Assange is a whiny commie foreigner who is butt hurt his fellow traveler Sanders didn't win the Democratic nomination. He is suffering under the ridiculous assumption that Sanders had a chance at the nomination and isn't the nominee because he was bushwacked by Clinton.The media no longer bothers to fact check Trump because they would have entire days devoted to exposing all of his lies. Each one would have to come up with a new channel to simply contradict the “hyperbole”.
In a recent interview Julian Assange was asked why Wikileaks isn't digging up info on Donald Trump. He responded that they couldn't find anything to dig up that was any worse than what was coming out of his mouth everyday.
The fact is, though, Sanders made it as far as he did BECAUSE of Clinton, not in spite of her.
You see, Clinton induces so much nausea even among Democrats that they decided to give Sanders a second look he otherwise would never have gotten. If the Democrats had put up Biden or Warren, Sanders would never have gotten off the launch pad.
You can dispute my argument, but it is undeniable Assange is more angry with Clinton than Trump for the same reason I am more angry with Trump than Clinton.
If your neighbor invites in a guest, and that guest shits all over the carpet and in your neighbor's soup, you would look pretty poorly at that guest.
But if you invited a guest into YOUR house, and your guest shit all over YOUR carpet and in YOUR soup, you would be several magnitudes more angry at YOUR guest than with your neighbor's guest.
Trump has shit all over the GOP carpet and in the GOP's soup. As a Republican, he pisses me off way more than the Democratic carpet shitter, Clinton.
It's just the opposite with Assange. He is more angry at Clinton, and so he devotes most of his energy attacking her instead of Trump. This foreign interventionist is trying to get her out of the Democratic house.
I disagree. I don't think Assange likes Clinton or Trump, and don't think he means to target one more than the other. He explained in another recent interview that they don't have as much to dig up on Trump because he hasn't spent as many years in politics. He's really an open book. It goes back to what I said earlier in this thread. Everybody already knows what a piece of shit Trump is. His supporters just don't care.
Then what you are saying is that Obama is a liar because with Hillary standing at his side he claimed he was withdrawing the troops because things were so good in Iraq US troops were no longer needed.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.Donald Trump now says that the "way we left Iraq" led to the rise of ISIS.
Yet, in 2007, when Trump was a registered Democrat, when President Bush was calling for a surge in Iraq, Donald Trump wanted to cut-and-run!
Trump: "Well, I think Bush is probably the worst president in the history of the United States, and I just don't understand how they could have lost that election."
"The rest of the world hates us."
Blitzer: How does the United States get out of this situation?
Trump: You know they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.
"Declare victory, and leave." Cut-and-run.
A lot of the same type of people today who support Trump are the type of people who supported the surge. They also strongly supported President Bush. And they especially hated cut-and-run Democrats like Donald Trump.
In 2008, Trump was demanding Bush be impeached! Trump liked and admired Nancy Pelosi back then, when the Right vehemently hated her.
Trump: "I was surprised that she (Nancy Pelosi) didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost -- it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which, personally, I think would have been a wonderful thing."
Blitzer: "Impeaching him?"
Trump: "Absolutely, for the war, for the war."
Blitzer: "Because of the conduct of the war."
Trump: "Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies. And, I mean, look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant. And they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense. And, yet, Bush got us into this horrible war with lies, by lying, by saying they had weapons of mass destruction, by saying all sorts of things that turned out not to be true."
So here is what I need Trump's Chumps to explain to me: How were Donald Trump's demands for impeachment and his demand we cut-and-run from Iraq any different from what Cindy Sheehan wanted?
Explain to me how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run.
Now...I know your programmed response is, "B-b-b-b-but Clinton!", but spare us that crock of shit. It's a red herring handed to retards to chuck about when they can't explain Trump, and it doesn't answer the question.
Besides, not even Clinton called for Bush to be impeached. Only far left loons like Sheehan and Trump did.
So explain the difference between Trump and Sheehan. And explain Trump's whining about "the way we left Iraq" in the context of his demand we cut-and-run.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
In the final 2 years of Bush II, we (the coalition) lost 1,200 people. It was hardly “stable” politically, militarily, or theologically. Had we kept the same number of troops there, they would still be getting picked off, captured, beheaded, etc…
In the meantime; nobody has come up with one good reason to spill a drop of American blood over there since 2003.
The biggest lie was the untold truth. The lie of omission.Then what you are saying is that Obama is a liar because with Hillary standing at his side he claimed he was withdrawing the troops because things were so good in Iraq US troops were no longer needed.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
In the final 2 years of Bush II, we (the coalition) lost 1,200 people. It was hardly “stable” politically, militarily, or theologically. Had we kept the same number of troops there, they would still be getting picked off, captured, beheaded, etc…
In the meantime; nobody has come up with one good reason to spill a drop of American blood over there since 2003.
It was 3-4 years later in the first place.
In the 2nd place, there was no longer a threat of Iraq using WMDs…
As you may recall, that was the lie we were told to go in there to start with.
Explain to me how Scott Walker and Ben Carson and Ted Cruz are the RINOs and how Donald Trump is a real conservative so we can all have a huge fucking belly laugh.
Actually, the war with Saddam was won quickly and relatively cheaply, but it was the aftermath of the war that was the problem. Once Saddam was gone, the US couldn't leave without Iraq collapsing into sectarian war which would have threatened the entire region, but no one knew what to do until Petraeus came along with his plan. His plan was both simple and brilliant. He recognized that stationing US troops in massive bases meant they could only respond to fighting among the factions after it broke out and would then have to retreat to their bases but stationing them among the Iraqi people would allow them to prevent fighting. It would require more manpower, hence the surge, and would produce higher US casualties at first, but would eventually mean US troops would only have to provide support instead of fighting.I was over there on active duty. I have no doubt in my military mind that we would have had to fight Hussein again, sooner or later. He wanted a fight, and he was going to get one.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.Donald Trump now says that the "way we left Iraq" led to the rise of ISIS.
Yet, in 2007, when Trump was a registered Democrat, when President Bush was calling for a surge in Iraq, Donald Trump wanted to cut-and-run!
Trump: "Well, I think Bush is probably the worst president in the history of the United States, and I just don't understand how they could have lost that election."
"The rest of the world hates us."
Blitzer: How does the United States get out of this situation?
Trump: You know they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.
"Declare victory, and leave." Cut-and-run.
A lot of the same type of people today who support Trump are the type of people who supported the surge. They also strongly supported President Bush. And they especially hated cut-and-run Democrats like Donald Trump.
In 2008, Trump was demanding Bush be impeached! Trump liked and admired Nancy Pelosi back then, when the Right vehemently hated her.
Trump: "I was surprised that she (Nancy Pelosi) didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost -- it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which, personally, I think would have been a wonderful thing."
Blitzer: "Impeaching him?"
Trump: "Absolutely, for the war, for the war."
Blitzer: "Because of the conduct of the war."
Trump: "Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies. And, I mean, look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant. And they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense. And, yet, Bush got us into this horrible war with lies, by lying, by saying they had weapons of mass destruction, by saying all sorts of things that turned out not to be true."
So here is what I need Trump's Chumps to explain to me: How were Donald Trump's demands for impeachment and his demand we cut-and-run from Iraq any different from what Cindy Sheehan wanted?
Explain to me how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run.
Now...I know your programmed response is, "B-b-b-b-but Clinton!", but spare us that crock of shit. It's a red herring handed to retards to chuck about when they can't explain Trump, and it doesn't answer the question.
Besides, not even Clinton called for Bush to be impeached. Only far left loons like Sheehan and Trump did.
So explain the difference between Trump and Sheehan. And explain Trump's whining about "the way we left Iraq" in the context of his demand we cut-and-run.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
In the final 2 years of Bush II, we (the coalition) lost 1,200 people. It was hardly “stable” politically, militarily, or theologically. Had we kept the same number of troops there, they would still be getting picked off, captured, beheaded, etc…
In the meantime; nobody has come up with one good reason to spill a drop of American blood over there since 2003.
My only problem with Bush on that front is the inept way he prosecuted the war.
Actually, the war with Saddam was won quickly and relatively cheaply, but it was the aftermath of the war that was the problem. Once Saddam was gone, the US couldn't leave without Iraq collapsing into sectarian war which would have threatened the entire region, but no one knew what to do until Petraeus came along with his plan. His plan was both simple and brilliant. He recognized that stationing US troops in massive bases meant they could only respond to fighting among the factions after it broke out and would then have to retreat to their bases but stationing them among the Iraqi people would allow them to prevent fighting. It would require more manpower, hence the surge, and would produce higher US casualties at first, but would eventually mean US troops would only have to provide support instead of fighting.I was over there on active duty. I have no doubt in my military mind that we would have had to fight Hussein again, sooner or later. He wanted a fight, and he was going to get one.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
In the final 2 years of Bush II, we (the coalition) lost 1,200 people. It was hardly “stable” politically, militarily, or theologically. Had we kept the same number of troops there, they would still be getting picked off, captured, beheaded, etc…
In the meantime; nobody has come up with one good reason to spill a drop of American blood over there since 2003.
My only problem with Bush on that front is the inept way he prosecuted the war.
Donald Trump now says that the "way we left Iraq" led to the rise of ISIS.
Yet, in 2007, when Trump was a registered Democrat, when President Bush was calling for a surge in Iraq, Donald Trump wanted to cut-and-run!
Trump: "Well, I think Bush is probably the worst president in the history of the United States, and I just don't understand how they could have lost that election."
"The rest of the world hates us."
Blitzer: How does the United States get out of this situation?
Trump: You know they get out? They get out! That's how they get out. Declare victory, and leave.
"Declare victory, and leave." Cut-and-run.
A lot of the same type of people today who support Trump are the type of people who supported the surge. They also strongly supported President Bush. And they especially hated cut-and-run Democrats like Donald Trump.
In 2008, Trump was demanding Bush be impeached! Trump liked and admired Nancy Pelosi back then, when the Right vehemently hated her.
Trump: "I was surprised that she (Nancy Pelosi) didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost -- it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which, personally, I think would have been a wonderful thing."
Blitzer: "Impeaching him?"
Trump: "Absolutely, for the war, for the war."
Blitzer: "Because of the conduct of the war."
Trump: "Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies. And, I mean, look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant. And they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense. And, yet, Bush got us into this horrible war with lies, by lying, by saying they had weapons of mass destruction, by saying all sorts of things that turned out not to be true."
So here is what I need Trump's Chumps to explain to me: How were Donald Trump's demands for impeachment and his demand we cut-and-run from Iraq any different from what Cindy Sheehan wanted?
Explain to me how Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run.
Now...I know your programmed response is, "B-b-b-b-but Clinton!", but spare us that crock of shit. It's a red herring handed to retards to chuck about when they can't explain Trump, and it doesn't answer the question.
Besides, not even Clinton called for Bush to be impeached. Only far left loons like Sheehan and Trump did.
So explain the difference between Trump and Sheehan. And explain Trump's whining about "the way we left Iraq" in the context of his demand we cut-and-run.
Too bad Trump was against it. Explain.Actually, the war with Saddam was won quickly and relatively cheaply, but it was the aftermath of the war that was the problem. Once Saddam was gone, the US couldn't leave without Iraq collapsing into sectarian war which would have threatened the entire region, but no one knew what to do until Petraeus came along with his plan. His plan was both simple and brilliant. He recognized that stationing US troops in massive bases meant they could only respond to fighting among the factions after it broke out and would then have to retreat to their bases but stationing them among the Iraqi people would allow them to prevent fighting. It would require more manpower, hence the surge, and would produce higher US casualties at first, but would eventually mean US troops would only have to provide support instead of fighting.I was over there on active duty. I have no doubt in my military mind that we would have had to fight Hussein again, sooner or later. He wanted a fight, and he was going to get one.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".Without question, if the US had remained in Iraq as the Pentagon urged, ISIS would never have been created. So it is fair to say that when Obama withdrew US troops from Iraq against the advice of the Pentagon so that he would not to into the 2012 election being accused of breaking the main promise from 2008, he created ISIS. Nothing in your post suggests otherwise.
So what's your point?
That Trump misjudged the effectiveness of Petraeus' plan in 2007? Most of the senior staff at the Pentagon did; that's why Bush promoted him ahead of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. And let's not forget Hillary's outburst in the Senate:
'In a September 2007 congressional inquiry about the ongoing surge in Iraq, then Senator Hillary Clinton all but called Gen. David Petraeus a liar. After Petraeus gave a cautiously optimistic—and prescient—appraisal of the growing quiet in Iraq, Clinton curtly dismissed him with the literary term “suspension of disbelief,” which describes the creation of a fantasy world. Clinton sarcastically rebutted Petraeus’s quite accurate data with the curt dismissal, “I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”'
Hillary Clinton and the Suspension of Disbelief | RealClearPolitics
So Trump was wrong about the surge but he was right about Obama creating ISIS with Clinton at his side, but the most interesting thing about your post is that even back in 2007, major media outlets wanted Trump's input on the important issues of the day.
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
In the final 2 years of Bush II, we (the coalition) lost 1,200 people. It was hardly “stable” politically, militarily, or theologically. Had we kept the same number of troops there, they would still be getting picked off, captured, beheaded, etc…
In the meantime; nobody has come up with one good reason to spill a drop of American blood over there since 2003.
My only problem with Bush on that front is the inept way he prosecuted the war.
Trump: It just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which, personally, I think would have been a wonderful thing.
Trump: "Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies."
Dems Can Cut and Run, But They Can't Hide
Their "Bush lied" mantra gave them cover through the November elections, but their acquisition of congressional control resulted in pressure to come up with a plan of their own.
Now...I know your programmed response is, "B-b-b-b-but Clinton!", but spare us that crock of shit. It's a red herring handed to retards to chuck about when they can't explain Trump, and it doesn't answer the question.
There was no lie of omission, just incredible naivete. Bush and his advisers had assumed that once Saddam was gone, the Iraqi people would rush to convene and organize a new government, but they had grossly underestimated the the extent t which Saddam had terrorized the Iraqi people and the depth of the animosity that existed between the Sunni, Shi'ite and Kurds. It was this animosity among these factions that should have been expected but wasn't that Petraeus' plan put under control and allowed Iraq to become a relatively, for that part of the world, peaceful nation and a functioning democracy. So while there were many mistakes along the way, ultimately the war was a success until Obama destroyed to assure his reelection in 2012.The biggest lie was the untold truth. The lie of omission.Then what you are saying is that Obama is a liar because with Hillary standing at his side he claimed he was withdrawing the troops because things were so good in Iraq US troops were no longer needed.There was a big difference between Iraq in 2007 and Iraq in 2011. 2006 had been the worst year of the war and the senior staff of the Pentagon offered little hope things would improve, so showing boldness and great strength of character, Bush began interviewing his generals asking the how they would overcome the difficulties in Iraq. Only Petraeus had a plan, and so Bush promoted him over the heads of more senior generals so he could take command in Iraq. By the time Petraeus reported to Congress on the progress he had made, some people were still thinking about how bad things had been in 2006 and the Democrats had already decided opposition to the war would be a major talking point in 2008, so success in Iraq would work against their political interests and failure in Iraq would work in their favor, as Hillary's bizarre outburst in the Senate clearly exemplifies.Trump wanted to cut-and-run in 2007. The very kind of thing you and Trump now say "created ISIS".
How Trump can whine today about "the way we left Iraq" and how can he whine about the cutting and running which "created ISIS" when he was one of the people who wanted to cut-and-run?
By the time Obama took office, Iraq had been stabilized politically, had become a democracy in an astonishingly short time, the extremists had become nuisances rather than threats and Iraqi forces did nearly all the fighting that was necessary with US only providing support, but that support was critically importatnt; it prevented the largely Shi'ite government from persecuting the Sunni, it gave the Sunni confidence that if they continued to resist al Qaeda, the US would be right there to support them and it gave Iraq's PM assurance that if he resisted Iran's influence, the US would be right there to support him. The Pentagon advised Obama that to maintain these conditions 30,000 US troops would have to remain, but the Democrats had run on the promise that all US troops would be withdrawn from Iraq and as the 2012 elections drew closer, Obama decided that it was more important for him to be elected to a second term than for the peace in Iraq to be maintained of for al Qaeda to be held in check, so he announced that Iraq was now so stable and able to take care of all its issues, US troops were no longer needed there, knowing full well this wasn't true, and in that way Obama created ISIS.
So the fact that Trump was wrong in 2007 about the value of the surge has nothing to do with him being right about Obama creating ISIS by withdrawing US troops in 2011.
In the final 2 years of Bush II, we (the coalition) lost 1,200 people. It was hardly “stable” politically, militarily, or theologically. Had we kept the same number of troops there, they would still be getting picked off, captured, beheaded, etc…
In the meantime; nobody has come up with one good reason to spill a drop of American blood over there since 2003.
It was 3-4 years later in the first place.
In the 2nd place, there was no longer a threat of Iraq using WMDs…
As you may recall, that was the lie we were told to go in there to start with.
I said before the invasion that it was going to be at least a ten year grind. But Bush knew he couldn't sell a ten year war that would carry over into the next Administration. So he made it sound like we would all be home by Christmas, like so many other assholes at the top in the past.
Remember how McCain was virulently attacked for saying we might have to occupy for 50 years? He was telling the truth, and the American people didn't like to hear the truth at all.
