F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[DrainBamage]

SlainBrain, I never claimed that. Your repeated lies indicate that you are not aware of the fact that people can read here and see how you make a fool out of yourself.

Hah hah it's hilarious watching you dance around after you realize you've said something really stupid, for the record here is what you said:

"The Mig 29 is a superior fighter. It is still the most maneuverable jet and is almost invincible in close air combat."

The quoted post is here:

Wrong again. The Mig 29 is a superior fighter. It is still the most maneuverable jet and is almost invincible in close air combat.

Your "superior fighter" has done poorly against every opposing fighter it has faced unless the opponent happened to have a propeller.

There are three Mig 29 air victories in Iraq by the way, of which one was a "bird strike". Three Mig 29 were shot down. This is a 1:1 ratio

Your own link doesn't agree, and you sure have lots of excuses as to why your "invincible" fighter gets shot down a lot.

 

[DrainBamage]

You are being delusional again. Ancient missiles can down stealth planes. At least one F-117 was downed by a Soviet made 1961 S-125.

Of course missiles can down stealth planes, nobody is claiming they are invincible like you did with MIG-29. You're making a really feeble attempt at a straw man argument here. All stealth does is reduce the range at which the aircraft can be detected, tracked, and targeted, giving advantages to the stealthier aircraft in penetrating contested airspace and getting first look first shot in air combat.

That F-117 was shot down after flying the same route over and over, they were able to put their assets where they needed and detect it at close range when it opened it's bomb bay doors, launching missiles from only eight miles away.

F-117 was a first generation stealth plane designed in the 70s, it's situational awareness was horrible (didn't even have a radar) all it was designed to do was flying a fixed route and drop two bombs. An F-35 or F-22 flying that same mission would have easily detected those AA assets and either jammed them, avoided flying near them, or dropped an SDB right on their head.

 

[Bleipriester]

SlainBrain, I never claimed that. Your repeated lies indicate that you are not aware of the fact that people can read here and see how you make a fool out of yourself.

Hah hah it's hilarious watching you dance around after you realize you've said something really stupid, for the record here is what you said:

"The Mig 29 is a superior fighter. It is still the most maneuverable jet and is almost invincible in close air combat."

The quoted post is here:

Wrong again. The Mig 29 is a superior fighter. It is still the most maneuverable jet and is almost invincible in close air combat.

Your "superior fighter" has done poorly against every opposing fighter it has faced unless the opponent happened to have a propeller.

There are three Mig 29 air victories in Iraq by the way, of which one was a "bird strike". Three Mig 29 were shot down. This is a 1:1 ratio

Your own link doesn't agree, and you sure have lots of excuses as to why your "invincible" fighter gets shot down a lot.

Where does it say it is invincible, PainBrain?

 

[Bleipriester]

You are being delusional again. Ancient missiles can down stealth planes. At least one F-117 was downed by a Soviet made 1961 S-125.

Of course missiles can down stealth planes, nobody is claiming they are invincible like you did with MIG-29. You're making a really feeble attempt at a straw man argument here. All stealth does is reduce the range at which the aircraft can be detected, tracked, and targeted, giving advantages to the stealthier aircraft in penetrating contested airspace and getting first look first shot in air combat.

That F-117 was shot down after flying the same route over and over, they were able to put their assets where they needed and detect it at close range when it opened it's bomb bay doors, launching missiles from only eight miles away.

F-117 was a first generation stealth plane designed in the 70s, it's situational awareness was horrible (didn't even have a radar) all it was designed to do was flying a fixed route and drop two bombs. An F-35 or F-22 flying that same mission would have easily detected those AA assets and either jammed them, avoided flying near them, or dropped an SDB right on their head.

The 117 did not have radar but other detection tools. The rest of your bullshit is bullshit.

 

[DrainBamage]

Where does it say it is invincible, PainBrain?

Learn to read.

 

[DrainBamage]

The 117 did not have radar but other detection tools. The rest of your bullshit is bullshit.

You call it bullshit because (yet again) it sinks whatever idiotic point you're trying to make, the easiest response when you've got nothing is to wave your hand and cry "bullshit" instead of demonstrating the intellectual depth required to back up your post.

F-117 had a FLIR and DLIR to target it's weapons, can you tell me what type of radar warning receiver it had? You're the one talking about it's "other detection tools" and you're the one with a long history of being caught talking out of your ass, so I invite you to educate me on the RWR of an F-117.

 

[RWNJ]

Remember how that F-4 took out two F-18's?

No I don't. Mind linking to a source which describes the incident.

Thank you in advance.


>>>>

Someone mentioned it on this thread, I believe. Not sure if it's true or not. If it was a close-in dogfight, I can see it happening.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Remember how that F-4 took out two F-18's?

No I don't. Mind linking to a source which describes the incident.

Thank you in advance.


>>>>

Someone mentioned it on this thread, I believe. Not sure if it's true or not. If it was a close-in dogfight, I can see it happening.

I found it it was here -->> F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

Nothing credible just a "back in the day" story.



If it was a close in dogfight I don't see it happening. When I was on the Midway we flew F-4's. They proved if you added enough thrust you could make a brick fly.



>>>>

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Pentagon?s big budget F-35 fighter ?can?t turn, can?t climb, can?t run? | The Great Debate

Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

Is there a serious problem, or just the press hunting for a story?

The US should have skipped the F-35 and F-22 to put more research into the next class of fighter/bombers.

Baby steps. The B-2 first flew almost 30 years ago. Nothing can match it for at least the next decade. The F-22 first flew 20 years ago and nothing can match it for at least another decade. The F-35 first flew 11 years ago. We asked the F-35 to do things that should have been impossible yet it is doing them today. But it was a long hard battle to get it there.

The US is working on the next gen (6) fighter right now. Funny, there is a good chance it will look similar to the XF-23. The B-21 will really be still a 5th gen but the 6th gen is on the drawing boards. You have to ring out the problems of each gen aircraft. You can't just skip ahead. Russia can't build a real 5th gen so they make the claim they are working on a 6th gen. Sort of like, I am now working on my second Million, I gave up on my first million.

You are being delusional again. Ancient missiles can down stealth planes. At least one F-117 was downed by a Soviet made 1961 S-125.

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

Normally, they don't throw up missiles like a FAC blanket. But they did that day. They knew it was there but couldn't lock on it so they used the multi barreled shotgun approach. Doing this makes you run out of SA missiles very quickly. USAF learned from this and went on to use the F-117 over a much more dense SA defense with zero losses to the F-117.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I bet you would even subsribe to the flat earth if you thought it helped your employer, Putin,. You should move this to "Conspiracy Theory".

 

[DrainBamage]

Russia's MiG-29 Fulcrum: A Super Fighter or Super Failure?

Setting the tune of things to come, in the Fulcrum’s first confirmed aerial combat, two Syrian MiG-29 were shot down by Israeli F-15s in 1989. There are reports Israeli fighters shot down another two Syrian MiG-29s in 2001.

During the Gulf War, five Iraqi MiG-29s were shot down by American F-15s. However, a Fulcrum did successfully hit an F-111 and a B-52 bomber with missiles, though both aircraft managed to return to base.

Fulcrums also took a beating in the Ethiopian–Eritrean border conflict of the late 1990s, which featured more evenly matched opponents. Russian mercenaries flew alongside Ethiopian pilots, while Ukrainians supported the Eritrean Air Force. In all, four Eritrean MiG-29s were shot down by Ethiopian Su-27s. In exchange, the Eritrean Fulcrums shot down a Su-25, a MiG-21 and an unidentified fighter (possibly a MiG-23). Over multiple engagements, Flankers and Fulcrums exchanged over two-dozen R-27 missiles at long range for only a single hit. Instead, most of the victories were scored in short-range dogfights using AA-11 missiles.

Sixteen MiG-29s of the Serbian Air Force opposed NATO’s bombing campaign over Kosovo in 1999. Deployed at medium altitude, where they were exposed to hostile radar, five were shot down by F-15s and F-16s without scoring any victories in return.

This would be the invincible plane of the village idiot.

 

[Bleipriester]

The 117 did not have radar but other detection tools. The rest of your bullshit is bullshit.

You call it bullshit because (yet again) it sinks whatever idiotic point you're trying to make, the easiest response when you've got nothing is to wave your hand and cry "bullshit" instead of demonstrating the intellectual depth required to back up your post.

F-117 had a FLIR and DLIR to target it's weapons, can you tell me what type of radar warning receiver it had? You're the one talking about it's "other detection tools" and you're the one with a long history of being caught talking out of your ass, so I invite you to educate me on the RWR of an F-117.

You unpatriotically play down the F-117 to keep up your silly denials, PainBrain.

 

[Bleipriester]

Pentagon?s big budget F-35 fighter ?can?t turn, can?t climb, can?t run? | The Great Debate

Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

Is there a serious problem, or just the press hunting for a story?

The US should have skipped the F-35 and F-22 to put more research into the next class of fighter/bombers.

Baby steps. The B-2 first flew almost 30 years ago. Nothing can match it for at least the next decade. The F-22 first flew 20 years ago and nothing can match it for at least another decade. The F-35 first flew 11 years ago. We asked the F-35 to do things that should have been impossible yet it is doing them today. But it was a long hard battle to get it there.

The US is working on the next gen (6) fighter right now. Funny, there is a good chance it will look similar to the XF-23. The B-21 will really be still a 5th gen but the 6th gen is on the drawing boards. You have to ring out the problems of each gen aircraft. You can't just skip ahead. Russia can't build a real 5th gen so they make the claim they are working on a 6th gen. Sort of like, I am now working on my second Million, I gave up on my first million.

You are being delusional again. Ancient missiles can down stealth planes. At least one F-117 was downed by a Soviet made 1961 S-125.

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

Normally, they don't throw up missiles like a FAC blanket. But they did that day. They knew it was there but couldn't lock on it so they used the multi barreled shotgun approach. Doing this makes you run out of SA missiles very quickly. USAF learned from this and went on to use the F-117 over a much more dense SA defense with zero losses to the F-117.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I bet you would even subsribe to the flat earth if you thought it helped your employer, Putin,. You should move this to "Conspiracy Theory".

Two missiles. Both were on course but one simply didn´t detonate. Your employer, Washington Bob, should have told you that people can open the links that I post.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Pentagon?s big budget F-35 fighter ?can?t turn, can?t climb, can?t run? | The Great Debate

Is there a serious problem, or just the press hunting for a story?

The US should have skipped the F-35 and F-22 to put more research into the next class of fighter/bombers.

Baby steps. The B-2 first flew almost 30 years ago. Nothing can match it for at least the next decade. The F-22 first flew 20 years ago and nothing can match it for at least another decade. The F-35 first flew 11 years ago. We asked the F-35 to do things that should have been impossible yet it is doing them today. But it was a long hard battle to get it there.

The US is working on the next gen (6) fighter right now. Funny, there is a good chance it will look similar to the XF-23. The B-21 will really be still a 5th gen but the 6th gen is on the drawing boards. You have to ring out the problems of each gen aircraft. You can't just skip ahead. Russia can't build a real 5th gen so they make the claim they are working on a 6th gen. Sort of like, I am now working on my second Million, I gave up on my first million.

You are being delusional again. Ancient missiles can down stealth planes. At least one F-117 was downed by a Soviet made 1961 S-125.

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

Normally, they don't throw up missiles like a FAC blanket. But they did that day. They knew it was there but couldn't lock on it so they used the multi barreled shotgun approach. Doing this makes you run out of SA missiles very quickly. USAF learned from this and went on to use the F-117 over a much more dense SA defense with zero losses to the F-117.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I bet you would even subsribe to the flat earth if you thought it helped your employer, Putin,. You should move this to "Conspiracy Theory".

Two missiles. Both were on course but one simply didn´t detonate. Your employer, Washington Bob, should have told you that people can open the links that I post.

Let's take a look at your own cite.

They intercepted classified communications that said where and when. The prepositioned their radar sites for the best detection. Using low frequency (those radar operators knew their stuff) they use the radar to detect one F-117 with it's doors open. Even the F-22 pops up on radar the second or two that his weapon bay doors are open. The radar operators know just how long they could keep their radar on to avoid detection. Again, these weren't no pilgrims. The fired "Several Missiles". Two were close enough to the target to detonate but only one did. One was enough. What part of "Several" are you having trouble with. USAF didn't stop using the F-117 after that. They adjusted after going over the scenerio and made the appropriate mission changes. No others were lost. The loss of the bird was not from the F-117, but from underestimating the enemy. Much like you are doing now.

 

[Bleipriester]

The US should have skipped the F-35 and F-22 to put more research into the next class of fighter/bombers.

Baby steps. The B-2 first flew almost 30 years ago. Nothing can match it for at least the next decade. The F-22 first flew 20 years ago and nothing can match it for at least another decade. The F-35 first flew 11 years ago. We asked the F-35 to do things that should have been impossible yet it is doing them today. But it was a long hard battle to get it there.

The US is working on the next gen (6) fighter right now. Funny, there is a good chance it will look similar to the XF-23. The B-21 will really be still a 5th gen but the 6th gen is on the drawing boards. You have to ring out the problems of each gen aircraft. You can't just skip ahead. Russia can't build a real 5th gen so they make the claim they are working on a 6th gen. Sort of like, I am now working on my second Million, I gave up on my first million.

You are being delusional again. Ancient missiles can down stealth planes. At least one F-117 was downed by a Soviet made 1961 S-125.

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

Normally, they don't throw up missiles like a FAC blanket. But they did that day. They knew it was there but couldn't lock on it so they used the multi barreled shotgun approach. Doing this makes you run out of SA missiles very quickly. USAF learned from this and went on to use the F-117 over a much more dense SA defense with zero losses to the F-117.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I bet you would even subsribe to the flat earth if you thought it helped your employer, Putin,. You should move this to "Conspiracy Theory".

Two missiles. Both were on course but one simply didn´t detonate. Your employer, Washington Bob, should have told you that people can open the links that I post.

Let's take a look at your own cite.

They intercepted classified communications that said where and when. The prepositioned their radar sites for the best detection. Using low frequency (those radar operators knew their stuff) they use the radar to detect one F-117 with it's doors open. Even the F-22 pops up on radar the second or two that his weapon bay doors are open. The radar operators know just how long they could keep their radar on to avoid detection. Again, these weren't no pilgrims. The fired "Several Missiles". Two were close enough to the target to detonate but only one did. One was enough. What part of "Several" are you having trouble with. USAF didn't stop using the F-117 after that. They adjusted after going over the scenerio and made the appropriate mission changes. No others were lost. The loss of the bird was not from the F-117, but from underestimating the enemy. Much like you are doing now.

Again you are alleging something that is not there. Several is two here, as the article describes:

"He observed the two missiles punch through the low cloud cover and head straight for his aircraft. The first passed over him, close enough to cause buffeting, but did not detonate. The second missile detonated, causing significant damage to the aircraft and causing it to tumble, out of control."

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

You really need to become serious in discussions. Discussions with you impossible because you are always in denial of the given facts.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Baby steps. The B-2 first flew almost 30 years ago. Nothing can match it for at least the next decade. The F-22 first flew 20 years ago and nothing can match it for at least another decade. The F-35 first flew 11 years ago. We asked the F-35 to do things that should have been impossible yet it is doing them today. But it was a long hard battle to get it there.

The US is working on the next gen (6) fighter right now. Funny, there is a good chance it will look similar to the XF-23. The B-21 will really be still a 5th gen but the 6th gen is on the drawing boards. You have to ring out the problems of each gen aircraft. You can't just skip ahead. Russia can't build a real 5th gen so they make the claim they are working on a 6th gen. Sort of like, I am now working on my second Million, I gave up on my first million.

You are being delusional again. Ancient missiles can down stealth planes. At least one F-117 was downed by a Soviet made 1961 S-125.

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

Normally, they don't throw up missiles like a FAC blanket. But they did that day. They knew it was there but couldn't lock on it so they used the multi barreled shotgun approach. Doing this makes you run out of SA missiles very quickly. USAF learned from this and went on to use the F-117 over a much more dense SA defense with zero losses to the F-117.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I bet you would even subsribe to the flat earth if you thought it helped your employer, Putin,. You should move this to "Conspiracy Theory".

Two missiles. Both were on course but one simply didn´t detonate. Your employer, Washington Bob, should have told you that people can open the links that I post.

Let's take a look at your own cite.

They intercepted classified communications that said where and when. The prepositioned their radar sites for the best detection. Using low frequency (those radar operators knew their stuff) they use the radar to detect one F-117 with it's doors open. Even the F-22 pops up on radar the second or two that his weapon bay doors are open. The radar operators know just how long they could keep their radar on to avoid detection. Again, these weren't no pilgrims. The fired "Several Missiles". Two were close enough to the target to detonate but only one did. One was enough. What part of "Several" are you having trouble with. USAF didn't stop using the F-117 after that. They adjusted after going over the scenerio and made the appropriate mission changes. No others were lost. The loss of the bird was not from the F-117, but from underestimating the enemy. Much like you are doing now.

Again you are alleging something that is not there. Several is two here, as the article describes:

"He observed the two missiles punch through the low cloud cover and head straight for his aircraft. The first passed over him, close enough to cause buffeting, but did not detonate. The second missile detonated, causing significant damage to the aircraft and causing it to tumble, out of control."

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

You really need to become serious in discussions. Discussions with you impossible because you are always in denial of the given facts.

This is how the F-117A was shot down in Serbia by a SA-3 (S-75) Goa SAM in 1999

Several is more than a couple. But I won't argue that with you. The fact is, they were using an antiquated long range radar that isn't used today. While they got a sense he was there at 31 miles, they got a short lock at about 8 miles and fired. They used a combination of radar, laser and eyeballs to make the hit.

What made it possible was the F-117 was wet. That enabled them to detect him. They waited until he opened his bomb doors and fired. What we learned from this is to NEVER expect a decent stealth in the rain. While a 4th gen is harder to see in the rain, the fifth gen actually degrades it stealth a bit. Hence the BS claim that the F-35 can't fly in the rain. It can but you don't go into a heavily contested area in the rain. Same goes for the F-22. Instead, you send in your 4th gen F-15/16 combo that actually benefits from the rain.

We learned that we can't fly the same mission parameters over and over. It had to be changed. They flew the F-117 like they did the F-105s during vietnam. WE lost a lot of Thuds and Pilots that way. And the Buffs were flown the same way in Vietnam. When you notice this, you move your radar and put a narrow beam to that area. A Wide Beam like is normally used is less sensitive. Somehow, they had the entire flight parameters by eavesdropping on broadcasts for the F-117. USAF made a number of errors that they should not have made. Yes, the Slavs did a fantastic job but they were helped.

About the doors. The Doors on that particular bird stayed open a full 8 seconds. When the doors are open, you aren't stealthy at that point. They got the lock and went for it and got it. Today, the weapons bay doors on both the F-35 and F-22 are open less than a second. Not long enough for you to obtain a lock.

Like everything else, it's a learning curve. The F-117 was the beginning of the learning curve. The Bird was fantastic but the serious of comedic errors that were done were the cause of the shoot down.

 

[Bleipriester]

You are being delusional again. Ancient missiles can down stealth planes. At least one F-117 was downed by a Soviet made 1961 S-125.

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

Normally, they don't throw up missiles like a FAC blanket. But they did that day. They knew it was there but couldn't lock on it so they used the multi barreled shotgun approach. Doing this makes you run out of SA missiles very quickly. USAF learned from this and went on to use the F-117 over a much more dense SA defense with zero losses to the F-117.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I bet you would even subsribe to the flat earth if you thought it helped your employer, Putin,. You should move this to "Conspiracy Theory".

Two missiles. Both were on course but one simply didn´t detonate. Your employer, Washington Bob, should have told you that people can open the links that I post.

Let's take a look at your own cite.

They intercepted classified communications that said where and when. The prepositioned their radar sites for the best detection. Using low frequency (those radar operators knew their stuff) they use the radar to detect one F-117 with it's doors open. Even the F-22 pops up on radar the second or two that his weapon bay doors are open. The radar operators know just how long they could keep their radar on to avoid detection. Again, these weren't no pilgrims. The fired "Several Missiles". Two were close enough to the target to detonate but only one did. One was enough. What part of "Several" are you having trouble with. USAF didn't stop using the F-117 after that. They adjusted after going over the scenerio and made the appropriate mission changes. No others were lost. The loss of the bird was not from the F-117, but from underestimating the enemy. Much like you are doing now.

Again you are alleging something that is not there. Several is two here, as the article describes:

"He observed the two missiles punch through the low cloud cover and head straight for his aircraft. The first passed over him, close enough to cause buffeting, but did not detonate. The second missile detonated, causing significant damage to the aircraft and causing it to tumble, out of control."

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

You really need to become serious in discussions. Discussions with you impossible because you are always in denial of the given facts.

This is how the F-117A was shot down in Serbia by a SA-3 (S-75) Goa SAM in 1999

Several is more than a couple. But I won't argue that with you. The fact is, they were using an antiquated long range radar that isn't used today. While they got a sense he was there at 31 miles, they got a short lock at about 8 miles and fired. They used a combination of radar, laser and eyeballs to make the hit.

What made it possible was the F-117 was wet. That enabled them to detect him. They waited until he opened his bomb doors and fired. What we learned from this is to NEVER expect a decent stealth in the rain. While a 4th gen is harder to see in the rain, the fifth gen actually degrades it stealth a bit. Hence the BS claim that the F-35 can't fly in the rain. It can but you don't go into a heavily contested area in the rain. Same goes for the F-22. Instead, you send in your 4th gen F-15/16 combo that actually benefits from the rain.

We learned that we can't fly the same mission parameters over and over. It had to be changed. They flew the F-117 like they did the F-105s during vietnam. WE lost a lot of Thuds and Pilots that way. And the Buffs were flown the same way in Vietnam. When you notice this, you move your radar and put a narrow beam to that area. A Wide Beam like is normally used is less sensitive. Somehow, they had the entire flight parameters by eavesdropping on broadcasts for the F-117. USAF made a number of errors that they should not have made. Yes, the Slavs did a fantastic job but they were helped.

About the doors. The Doors on that particular bird stayed open a full 8 seconds. When the doors are open, you aren't stealthy at that point. They got the lock and went for it and got it. Today, the weapons bay doors on both the F-35 and F-22 are open less than a second. Not long enough for you to obtain a lock.

Like everything else, it's a learning curve. The F-117 was the beginning of the learning curve. The Bird was fantastic but the serious of comedic errors that were done were the cause of the shoot down.

www.birdstrikes.com is not a reliable source when it comes to issues with US aircraft.


"In an interview this week with The Associated Press, Dani said the F-117 was detected and shot down during a moonless night — just three days into the war — by a Soviet-made SA-3 Goa surface-to-air missile.

"We used a little innovation to update our 1960s-vintage SAMs to detect the Nighthawk," Dani said. He declined to discuss specifics, saying the exact nature of the modification to the warhead's guidance system remains a military secret.

It involved "electromagnetic waves," was all that Dani — who now owns a small bakery in this sleepy village just north of Belgrade — would divulge.


"Long before the 1999 war, I took keen interest in the stealth fighter and on how it could be detected," said Dani, who has been hailed in Serbia as a war hero. "And I concluded that there are no invisible aircraft, but only less visible."


The Serb SAMs remained a potent threat throughout the conflict, forcing attacking warplanes to altitudes above 15,000 feet, where they were safe from surface-to-air missiles but far less effective in a ground attack role.

NATO won the war in June 1999, after President Slobodan Milosevic decided to withdraw his largely intact army from Kosovo, following the destruction of numerous government buildings, bridges and other infrastructure targets throughout Serbia."

USATODAY.com - Serb discusses 1999 downing of stealth

 

[DrainBamage]

You unpatriotically play down the F-117 to keep up your silly denials, PainBrain.

Nope. I explained exactly why it was shot down.

As has been proven by your posting history, the easiest verification there is would be simply believe the opposite of what you post. You've been caught in so many ridiculous lies it's a kneejerk reaction to assume whatever is coming from you is either something you made up (MIG-29 almost invincible) or some conspiracy tidbit that you're gullible to believe in.

Tell us more about all those invincible MIG-29s getting shot down in the Ethiopia war, or maybe some more details about Iran's stealth plane that turned out to be an RC model. "There is a video of it flying" hah you fucking moron.

 

[Bleipriester]

You unpatriotically play down the F-117 to keep up your silly denials, PainBrain.

Nope. I explained exactly why it was shot down.

As has been proven by your posting history, the easiest verification there is would be simply believe the opposite of what you post. You've been caught in so many ridiculous lies it's a kneejerk reaction to assume whatever is coming from you is either something you made up (MIG-29 almost invincible) or some conspiracy tidbit that you're gullible to believe in.

Tell us more about all those invincible MIG-29s getting shot down in the Ethiopia war, or maybe some more details about Iran's stealth plane that turned out to be an RC model. "There is a video of it flying" hah you fucking moron.

Shut the fuck up, liar.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Normally, they don't throw up missiles like a FAC blanket. But they did that day. They knew it was there but couldn't lock on it so they used the multi barreled shotgun approach. Doing this makes you run out of SA missiles very quickly. USAF learned from this and went on to use the F-117 over a much more dense SA defense with zero losses to the F-117.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I bet you would even subsribe to the flat earth if you thought it helped your employer, Putin,. You should move this to "Conspiracy Theory".

Two missiles. Both were on course but one simply didn´t detonate. Your employer, Washington Bob, should have told you that people can open the links that I post.

Let's take a look at your own cite.

They intercepted classified communications that said where and when. The prepositioned their radar sites for the best detection. Using low frequency (those radar operators knew their stuff) they use the radar to detect one F-117 with it's doors open. Even the F-22 pops up on radar the second or two that his weapon bay doors are open. The radar operators know just how long they could keep their radar on to avoid detection. Again, these weren't no pilgrims. The fired "Several Missiles". Two were close enough to the target to detonate but only one did. One was enough. What part of "Several" are you having trouble with. USAF didn't stop using the F-117 after that. They adjusted after going over the scenerio and made the appropriate mission changes. No others were lost. The loss of the bird was not from the F-117, but from underestimating the enemy. Much like you are doing now.

Again you are alleging something that is not there. Several is two here, as the article describes:

"He observed the two missiles punch through the low cloud cover and head straight for his aircraft. The first passed over him, close enough to cause buffeting, but did not detonate. The second missile detonated, causing significant damage to the aircraft and causing it to tumble, out of control."

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

You really need to become serious in discussions. Discussions with you impossible because you are always in denial of the given facts.

This is how the F-117A was shot down in Serbia by a SA-3 (S-75) Goa SAM in 1999

Several is more than a couple. But I won't argue that with you. The fact is, they were using an antiquated long range radar that isn't used today. While they got a sense he was there at 31 miles, they got a short lock at about 8 miles and fired. They used a combination of radar, laser and eyeballs to make the hit.

What made it possible was the F-117 was wet. That enabled them to detect him. They waited until he opened his bomb doors and fired. What we learned from this is to NEVER expect a decent stealth in the rain. While a 4th gen is harder to see in the rain, the fifth gen actually degrades it stealth a bit. Hence the BS claim that the F-35 can't fly in the rain. It can but you don't go into a heavily contested area in the rain. Same goes for the F-22. Instead, you send in your 4th gen F-15/16 combo that actually benefits from the rain.

We learned that we can't fly the same mission parameters over and over. It had to be changed. They flew the F-117 like they did the F-105s during vietnam. WE lost a lot of Thuds and Pilots that way. And the Buffs were flown the same way in Vietnam. When you notice this, you move your radar and put a narrow beam to that area. A Wide Beam like is normally used is less sensitive. Somehow, they had the entire flight parameters by eavesdropping on broadcasts for the F-117. USAF made a number of errors that they should not have made. Yes, the Slavs did a fantastic job but they were helped.

About the doors. The Doors on that particular bird stayed open a full 8 seconds. When the doors are open, you aren't stealthy at that point. They got the lock and went for it and got it. Today, the weapons bay doors on both the F-35 and F-22 are open less than a second. Not long enough for you to obtain a lock.

Like everything else, it's a learning curve. The F-117 was the beginning of the learning curve. The Bird was fantastic but the serious of comedic errors that were done were the cause of the shoot down.

www.birdstrikes.com is not a reliable source when it comes to issues with US aircraft.


"In an interview this week with The Associated Press, Dani said the F-117 was detected and shot down during a moonless night — just three days into the war — by a Soviet-made SA-3 Goa surface-to-air missile.

"We used a little innovation to update our 1960s-vintage SAMs to detect the Nighthawk," Dani said. He declined to discuss specifics, saying the exact nature of the modification to the warhead's guidance system remains a military secret.

It involved "electromagnetic waves," was all that Dani — who now owns a small bakery in this sleepy village just north of Belgrade — would divulge.


"Long before the 1999 war, I took keen interest in the stealth fighter and on how it could be detected," said Dani, who has been hailed in Serbia as a war hero. "And I concluded that there are no invisible aircraft, but only less visible."


The Serb SAMs remained a potent threat throughout the conflict, forcing attacking warplanes to altitudes above 15,000 feet, where they were safe from surface-to-air missiles but far less effective in a ground attack role.

NATO won the war in June 1999, after President Slobodan Milosevic decided to withdraw his largely intact army from Kosovo, following the destruction of numerous government buildings, bridges and other infrastructure targets throughout Serbia."

USATODAY.com - Serb discusses 1999 downing of stealth

Nothing you said contridicts what I have said about the F-117. The old style ground radar they used used a longer wave than the newer stuff. They just made it a bit longer. There were many ifs that made it possible.

IF it wasn't raining and the F-117 wasn't carrying radar reflective water on it.

IF they used a more modern shorter wave radar that could go long distances

IF the F-117 wasn't flying the same profile every time

IF the serbs hadn't intercepted information of the time and place of the launch

Any one of those IF would have prevented the rest from not happening. It was a comedy of errors along with a pretty damned good Colonel with the Serbs that knew his "Sh..".

 

[DrainBamage]

Shut the fuck up, liar.

Consistent with the number of facts in your other posts. Zero.

Tell us more abut the invincible MIG-29 that has consistently been on the losing end of any air combat against modern fighter jets? Dumbass. You're like the National Enquirer of defense tech, lots of made up stories and backtracking when busted talking out of your ass.