facist law forces mom to give birth just to watch the child die 15 minutes later

[Immanuel]

However the minute we get to kill people based upon the PROBABILITY that they will cause us suffering is the minute we become monsters.

The baby was not dead and rotting in the mother. It was alive with a bad prognosis. The prognosis was that it would die after birth. That would make me want to keep that baby alive in me as long as possible. Not seek and destroy.

But aside from that, you don't get to kill babies based upon your own inconvenience and suffering. That's wrong, just as it's wrong to kill any child because he's disabled, or irritating, or a financial drain.

First of all, we do not know that it was a bad prognosis.

We don't even know what Elizabeth died from as the papers conveniently left that out.

My understanding was that the doctor told her Elizabeth would die shortly after birth and that was what happened.

Second, I agree with you. We don't get to make that choice. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever know exactly what happened to the baby. Let's just hope the doctors actually did all they could do.

Immie

so you think the mother of this wanted child let the 'evil doctor' just twiddle his thumbs when Elizabeth could be saved? Where do you get this from? isn't that illegal?

I would hope it is illegal.

We don't know the full story. We are only given the side Planned Parenthood, the mother and the reporter want us to know and as I said there are a lot of holes in the story.

We are told that the mother wanted this child AND "this was not an abortion". Could that be because having an abortion in this case was illegal and so they induced labor and allowed the child to die? The baby was not dead at birth. It seems kind of strange that mom conveniently went in to labor at 24 weeks a full three months early without help from the doctors. Not that this never happens to my knowledge, but I don't think a mother's body just naturally expels a fetus that is alive all that often at 24 weeks.

Perhaps Geauxtohell can spread some more information on that as he generally seems to have a pretty good grasp on that kind of thing, but I have not seen him around much lately.

Yes, that would make everyone involved in this story out to be liars and murderers. I really don't think that is what has happened here, because if it did, that would indeed make her doctor evil as well as her. Let us hope that this was not an attempt to get around the abortion laws of Nebraska.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

First of all, we do not know that it was a bad prognosis.

We don't even know what Elizabeth died from as the papers conveniently left that out.

My understanding was that the doctor told her Elizabeth would die shortly after birth and that was what happened.

Second, I agree with you. We don't get to make that choice. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever know exactly what happened to the baby. Let's just hope the doctors actually did all they could do.

Immie

You want to know the part that sticks in my head?

This looks like a full term pregnancy where the doctors apparently told a woman they could not induce labor because the law made that illegal. Color me skeptical, but that is complete and total bullshit.

Not sure what you mean because from what I read, she was only 24 weeks along in the pregnancy. That is not full term.

Immie

The story does leave that impression, doesn't it. The things is, she was asking to induce labor, and gave birth 10 days later. The numbers do not make sense to me.

 

[Care4all]

First of all, we do not know that it was a bad prognosis.

We don't even know what Elizabeth died from as the papers conveniently left that out.

My understanding was that the doctor told her Elizabeth would die shortly after birth and that was what happened.

Second, I agree with you. We don't get to make that choice. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever know exactly what happened to the baby. Let's just hope the doctors actually did all they could do.

Immie

so you think the mother of this wanted child let the 'evil doctor' just twiddle his thumbs when Elizabeth could be saved? Where do you get this from? isn't that illegal?

I would hope it is illegal.

We don't know the full story. We are only given the side Planned Parenthood, the mother and the reporter want us to know and as I said there are a lot of holes in the story.

We are told that the mother wanted this child AND "this was not an abortion". Could that be because having an abortion in this case was illegal and so they induced labor and allowed the child to die? The baby was not dead at birth. It seems kind of strange that mom conveniently went in to labor at 24 weeks a full three months early without help from the doctors. Not that this never happens to my knowledge, but I don't think a mother's body just naturally expels a fetus that is alive all that often at 24 weeks.

Perhaps Geauxtohell can spread some more information on that as he generally seems to have a pretty good grasp on that kind of thing, but I have not seen him around much lately.

Yes, that would make everyone involved in this story out to be liars and murderers. I really don't think that is what has happened here, because if it did, that would indeed make her doctor evil as well as her. Let us hope that this was not an attempt to get around the abortion laws of Nebraska.

Immie

the mother was told that due to her child's condition, that she would eventually miscarry and that her child would not live.

I did not read anywhere in the original article in the op, that her pregnancy was induced? an induced pregnancy is not a miscarriage?? At least i never thought the 2 were synonymous?

do you have a link, where it says her pregnancy was induced?

the mother said she had to just wait, for the miscarriage to happen...?

 

[Immanuel]

so you think the mother of this wanted child let the 'evil doctor' just twiddle his thumbs when Elizabeth could be saved? Where do you get this from? isn't that illegal?

I would hope it is illegal.

We don't know the full story. We are only given the side Planned Parenthood, the mother and the reporter want us to know and as I said there are a lot of holes in the story.

We are told that the mother wanted this child AND "this was not an abortion". Could that be because having an abortion in this case was illegal and so they induced labor and allowed the child to die? The baby was not dead at birth. It seems kind of strange that mom conveniently went in to labor at 24 weeks a full three months early without help from the doctors. Not that this never happens to my knowledge, but I don't think a mother's body just naturally expels a fetus that is alive all that often at 24 weeks.

Perhaps Geauxtohell can spread some more information on that as he generally seems to have a pretty good grasp on that kind of thing, but I have not seen him around much lately.

Yes, that would make everyone involved in this story out to be liars and murderers. I really don't think that is what has happened here, because if it did, that would indeed make her doctor evil as well as her. Let us hope that this was not an attempt to get around the abortion laws of Nebraska.

Immie

the mother was told that due to her child's condition, that she would eventually miscarry and that her child would not live.

I did not read anywhere in the original article in the op, that her pregnancy was induced? an induced pregnancy is not a miscarriage?? At least i never thought the 2 were synonymous?

do you have a link, where it says her pregnancy was induced?

the mother said she had to just wait, for the miscarriage to happen...?

You must be tired as I did not claim it was induced.

When you get up in the morning go back and re-read the thread.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

so you think the mother of this wanted child let the 'evil doctor' just twiddle his thumbs when Elizabeth could be saved? Where do you get this from? isn't that illegal?

I would hope it is illegal.

We don't know the full story. We are only given the side Planned Parenthood, the mother and the reporter want us to know and as I said there are a lot of holes in the story.

We are told that the mother wanted this child AND "this was not an abortion". Could that be because having an abortion in this case was illegal and so they induced labor and allowed the child to die? The baby was not dead at birth. It seems kind of strange that mom conveniently went in to labor at 24 weeks a full three months early without help from the doctors. Not that this never happens to my knowledge, but I don't think a mother's body just naturally expels a fetus that is alive all that often at 24 weeks.

Perhaps Geauxtohell can spread some more information on that as he generally seems to have a pretty good grasp on that kind of thing, but I have not seen him around much lately.

Yes, that would make everyone involved in this story out to be liars and murderers. I really don't think that is what has happened here, because if it did, that would indeed make her doctor evil as well as her. Let us hope that this was not an attempt to get around the abortion laws of Nebraska.

Immie

the mother was told that due to her child's condition, that she would eventually miscarry and that her child would not live.

I did not read anywhere in the original article in the op, that her pregnancy was induced? an induced pregnancy is not a miscarriage?? At least i never thought the 2 were synonymous?

do you have a link, where it says her pregnancy was induced?

the mother said she had to just wait, for the miscarriage to happen...?

We are told that the mother was told she would eventually miscarry.

No, an induced labor of a live birth is not a miscarriage.

In fact, according to the article she never did have a miscarriage. She had a live birth and they seem to have simply allowed Elizabeth to die without so much as lifting a finger to save her life. Something's fishy here... very fishy.

Immie

 

[Care4all]

immie,

the mother to be, clearly has medical problems with bringing her babies to term...she had 2 previous miscarriages, then a child in 2008, then this miscarriage....let's pray she can have another born child some day soon, as she desperately wants....

 

[mnbasketball]

Are you kidding me, I used to hang with so many righty's it wasn't funny and their idea was the more black babies or white crack hoes that were aborted the better. Get rid of the problems before it gets old they used to say. I doubt if any of them would say that in church, well not out loud anyway, but in the bars, or at work or a party, it was a given.

 

[Immanuel]

immie,

the mother to be, clearly has medical problems with bringing her babies to term...she had 2 previous miscarriages, then a child in 2008, then this miscarriage....let's pray she can have another born child some day soon, as she desperately wants....

But the thing is that this was not a miscarriage. She had a live birth. Not still born but a live birth and since Elizabeth lived at least 15 minutes, it appears that the pregnancy had gone beyond the stage of viability.

miscarriage: Definition from Answers.com

miscarriage

American Heritage Dictionary:
mis·car·riage

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary
(mĭs'kăr'ĭj, mĭs-kăr'-) pronunciation
n.

1. The spontaneous, premature expulsion of a nonviable embryo or fetus from the uterus. Also called spontaneous abortion.
2. Bad administration; mismanagement: the miscarriage of the enterprise.
3. A failure of administration or management: a miscarriage of justice.


Read more: miscarriage: Definition from Answers.com

Immie

 

[Care4all]

immie,

the mother to be, clearly has medical problems with bringing her babies to term...she had 2 previous miscarriages, then a child in 2008, then this miscarriage....let's pray she can have another born child some day soon, as she desperately wants....

But the thing is that this was not a miscarriage. She had a live birth. Not still born but a live birth and since Elizabeth lived at least 15 minutes, it appears that the pregnancy had gone beyond the stage of viability.

miscarriage: Definition from Answers.com

miscarriage

American Heritage Dictionary:
mis·car·riage

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary
(mĭs'kăr'ĭj, mĭs-kăr'-) pronunciation
n.

1. The spontaneous, premature expulsion of a nonviable embryo or fetus from the uterus. Also called spontaneous abortion.
2. Bad administration; mismanagement: the miscarriage of the enterprise.
3. A failure of administration or management: a miscarriage of justice.


Read more: miscarriage: Definition from Answers.com

Immie

it was probably this: Anencephaly - My Child Has - Children's Hospital Boston

Treatment of the newborn with anencephaly:
There is no medical treatment for anencephaly. Due to the lack of development of the brain, approximately 75 percent of infants are stillborn and the remaining 25 percent of babies die within a few hours, days, or weeks after delivery. Care will be aimed at providing emotional support to the family.
Experiencing the loss of a child can be very traumatic. Grief counseling services are available to help you cope with the loss of your child.
Future pregnancies:
Genetic counseling may be recommended by the physician to discuss the risk of recurrence in a future pregnancy as well as vitamin therapy (a prescription for folic acid) that can decrease the recurrence for ONTDs. Extra folic acid, a B vitamin, if taken one to two months prior to conception and throughout the first trimester of pregnancy, has been found to decrease the reoccurrence of ONTDs, for couples who have had a previous child with an ONTD. You cannot obtain the proper amount of folic acid in a multivitamin. A prescription from an obstetrician or other healthcare provider (prior to pregnancy) is needed in order to have the proper dosage.

 

[strollingbones]

Her baby wasn't expected to live, but Nebraska law banned abortion | The Des Moines Register | DesMoinesRegister.com

this article gives more info about the mother and all

 

[AllieBaba]

immie,

the mother to be, clearly has medical problems with bringing her babies to term...she had 2 previous miscarriages, then a child in 2008, then this miscarriage....let's pray she can have another born child some day soon, as she desperately wants....

But the thing is that this was not a miscarriage. She had a live birth. Not still born but a live birth and since Elizabeth lived at least 15 minutes, it appears that the pregnancy had gone beyond the stage of viability.

miscarriage: Definition from Answers.com



Immie

it was probably this: Anencephaly - My Child Has - Children's Hospital Boston

Treatment of the newborn with anencephaly:
There is no medical treatment for anencephaly. Due to the lack of development of the brain, approximately 75 percent of infants are stillborn and the remaining 25 percent of babies die within a few hours, days, or weeks after delivery. Care will be aimed at providing emotional support to the family.
Experiencing the loss of a child can be very traumatic. Grief counseling services are available to help you cope with the loss of your child.
Future pregnancies:
Genetic counseling may be recommended by the physician to discuss the risk of recurrence in a future pregnancy as well as vitamin therapy (a prescription for folic acid) that can decrease the recurrence for ONTDs. Extra folic acid, a B vitamin, if taken one to two months prior to conception and throughout the first trimester of pregnancy, has been found to decrease the reoccurrence of ONTDs, for couples who have had a previous child with an ONTD. You cannot obtain the proper amount of folic acid in a multivitamin. A prescription from an obstetrician or other healthcare provider (prior to pregnancy) is needed in order to have the proper dosage.

Nice try, but no banana.

 

[strollingbones]

the baby's lungs did not develop...the child was born very premature and really had no chance of survival

read the article

 

[Dr.Drock]

the baby's lungs did not develop...the child was born very premature and really had no chance of survival

read the article

Nah, it's better for people to just repeat talking points.

All the posters on this thread know better about how to care for the mother and baby than the hospital and doctors did.

When a doctor says death is certain, he's lying because only God knows that, better to have the baby born naturally and die a slow, painful natural death than to have a doctor step in and make the situation the best it could be medically for all involved.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

the baby's lungs did not develop...the child was born very premature and really had no chance of survival

read the article

Nah, it's better for people to just repeat talking points.

All the posters on this thread know better about how to care for the mother and baby than the hospital and doctors did.

When a doctor says death is certain, he's lying because only God knows that, better to have the baby born naturally and die a slow, painful natural death than to have a doctor step in and make the situation the best it could be medically for all involved.

Every time you post you make less sense. How can you possibly argue that all the posters on this thread thought that when a large percentage of them believe she had a right to abort the baby?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Neb. mom carried non-viable pregnancy due to law | The Associated Press | Nation | San Francisco Examiner

Danielle Deaver was about 22 weeks into her pregnancy when doctors told her she wouldn't be able to carry to term and her child would die soon after birth. Then to her surprise, she learned doctors couldn't end her non-viable pregnancy because of a new Nebraska law barring late-term abortions.

so instead of being able to painlessly end her pregnancy (that she and her doctor wanted, but couldn't) she had to wait around to birth the baby knowing that it was going to die.

another "win" for the fascist social conservatives who want to rule and ruin everyone elses lives

Good to know the AP has totally given up any pretense at "journalistic objectivity". That was THE most uninformative, biased article I've seen from a mainstream news source so far this year.

Fortunately, unlike some people around here, I make the effort to research and fill in the blanks, rather than just getting my panties in a twist and running off, foaming at the mouth.

First of all, "non-viable pregnancy". I mean, seriously, can the AP BE any less informative as to what they're talking about? Here's what actually happened, according to the Des Moines Register, which published a much more complete account of the circumstances.

Danielle Deaver had three miscarriages before giving birth to their son. This baby was their fifth pregnancy.

In her 22nd week, her water broke. In other words, she began another miscarriage. The doctors worked to prolong the pregnancy and give Elizabeth (the baby) more time to develop, but there was no way to do it.

The problem, beyond issues of whether the baby could be viable outside the womb at such a young age, was that the lungs would lack the strength to function on their own, and likely would never develop it. This is, in fact, what happened.

Far from how the OP's link made it sound, Danielle was not forced to carry the baby to term, knowing she would die. She only carried the baby another eight days after her water broke, almost half of which she and her husband spent visiting specialists and trying to find a way to save the baby. Which means that all that really happened here was that, instead of inducing labor right that moment and THEN letting the baby stop breathing, they allowed the miscarriage to proceed and nature to induce the labor itself.

This is not exactly jackbooted Nazi thugs here, people, so perhaps we can be spared the whole "fascist" line and frothing outrage.

 

[Cecilie1200]

so she couldnt drive out of state?

For what? A four-or five-day difference, assuming she could even make the arrangements with a new doctor that fast?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The story gives no indication of a scientific diagnosis that could identify a medical problem that would cause a baby to die within 15 minutes of birth. They operate on babies in the womb these days. They could perform a Cesarian at 22 weeks. I smell a big fat liberal rat in this story.

Just a decided lack of details and information, probably because they didn't want to explain that the only difference here was maybe five days. I fail to see what real benefit that would have been to anyone.

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is simply wrong. She should not have had to go through this ordeal. More proof that conservatives lie when they say they believe in limited government.

What ordeal? Having a miscarriage? How is that conservatives' fault? They didn't make her miscarry.

 

[AllieBaba]

And my guess is the reason they didn't kill the baby and conduct an abortion is because they knew miscarriage was imminent and supposed it would be better for the mother to miscarry naturally, rather than having the still living baby ripped from her and killed.

And that's exactly what happened. They had 8 days to prepare, and the baby died a natural and fairly non-traumatic death, it sounds like.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What happened was totally wrong. The law needs to have exemptions built in to allow for medical needs.


The simple solutions in my opinion would have been to Cesarean sections it out.

As far as I can determine, the reason it would have been considered an abortion is because they had no intention of doing anything to try to prolong the baby's life once she was out. So even a C-section under those circumstances would still have been viewed as an abortion.

And there was no reason to give her a C-section. They wanted to induce labor earlier, is all. A C-section would have just unnecessarily endangered the mother.