Father/Daughter Shot Dead; Wounded Mom Shepherds Kids to Safety

[Ernie S.]

I carry a weapon for self-protection. I don't go into a psychopathic rant and list inventory.

So does Ernie, so do I...either we're all crazy, or none of us are.

Besides, how smart is it to list your arsenal on-line when there might be cops among us? Crazy.

The government knows what I have...I buy and sell everything through licensed FFLs.

My "arsenal" is a bunch of hunting rifles and shotguns. I have ONE non-rimfire, non-single-shot pistol. Seven shotguns, each set up for something different, from a scoped bolt-action 12 gauge turkey gun, to an over-under 410/22LR for squirrels and rabbits. Both of which I've posted about here.

12 Gauge and 50 cal muzzleloader
New project. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

410/22LR
Chiappa Double Badger .22lr .410 O O US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Single shot pistol
The Rossi Trifecta Your Best Bug Out Buddy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

17HMR single shot
.17 HMR H R Handi-rifle US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Modified 12 gauge single shot
Knock-around gun... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Another Pardner 12 gauge converted to black powder.
What do the left consider the greatest threat to America US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

9mm, 22lr double action revolver and 22lr single action revolver. (the Ruger was a 22lr semi-auto, but it's gone now)
Home security US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And a scary black AR-15 I've mentioned owning at least 1000 times.

What are we up to? 11...I also have a 30/30 single shot deer rifle.

There you go, an even dozen that the NSA has unfettered access to...a terrifying "arsenal".

Very impressive arsenal. Are you expecting a war? Are you expecting a home invasion by federal the government?

I don't even have one.

Hell, that's nothing. I know people with hundreds of weapons in their collections.

Here's a nice collection of machineguns for instance.

Men that have gun collections tend to have wives that are unsatisfied in the bedroom.

I vote this the dumbest comment of the month

He will out do that, likely by noon today.

 

[Pogo]

Crazy people everywhere. This is sad.

These would be far less upsetting if these assholes would start with themselves and skip taking innocent bystanders who had nothing to do with their problems.

The problem of course is they will use jet airliners, or cars, or pickup trucks, or a gallon of gasoline.
Assholes are assholes. They murder people because they are assholes.

Actually they won't -- you can't pick people off from a distance with that stuff. The objective is not murder; it's carnage. If the objective were murder then yes any of these methods and many more including hiring a hit man while establishing an alibi elsewhere. But that's not what gun nuts are after. They're after sensory feedback. That's why their victims are random -- it doesn't matter who they are. What matters is the blood and the screaming and the suffering.

No amount of disarming the other 90 million legit people is going to make it impossible for assholes to be assholes.

It would be nice if you could. But the reality is those laws save no one, and in fact harm more than are hurt.

Nobody brought up "disarming" anybody. But the only harm done here was by the armed guy. To paraphrase Bob Costas, if he hadn't been armed it's safe to say the whole family would be alive today.

And if members of the family had been armed they might be alive today............

They would have had to not only be armed but know it was coming.
Either that, or just perpetually walk around everywhere -- to the park, to the toilet, to bed -- expecting it at any moment.

Who the fuck wants to live like that? We're not a war zone -- why act as if we are?

 

[OnePercenter]

I don't care if cops know I have weapons. I'm not a felon and I hold a CCP. None of my firearms are illegal

It will be nice to know who you are when you snap.

Actually, it's closeted assholes like you who snap. Also having a progressive mindset is another warning sign. It seems the progressives have very juvenile minds and they turn violent when they don't get their way.

Promoting the American Worker will make one snap? Really?

 

[OnePercenter]

I carry a weapon for self-protection. I don't go into a psychopathic rant and list inventory.

So does Ernie, so do I...either we're all crazy, or none of us are.

Besides, how smart is it to list your arsenal on-line when there might be cops among us? Crazy.

The government knows what I have...I buy and sell everything through licensed FFLs.

My "arsenal" is a bunch of hunting rifles and shotguns. I have ONE non-rimfire, non-single-shot pistol. Seven shotguns, each set up for something different, from a scoped bolt-action 12 gauge turkey gun, to an over-under 410/22LR for squirrels and rabbits. Both of which I've posted about here.

12 Gauge and 50 cal muzzleloader
New project. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

410/22LR
Chiappa Double Badger .22lr .410 O O US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Single shot pistol
The Rossi Trifecta Your Best Bug Out Buddy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

17HMR single shot
.17 HMR H R Handi-rifle US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Modified 12 gauge single shot
Knock-around gun... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Another Pardner 12 gauge converted to black powder.
What do the left consider the greatest threat to America US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

9mm, 22lr double action revolver and 22lr single action revolver. (the Ruger was a 22lr semi-auto, but it's gone now)
Home security US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And a scary black AR-15 I've mentioned owning at least 1000 times.

What are we up to? 11...I also have a 30/30 single shot deer rifle.

There you go, an even dozen that the NSA has unfettered access to...a terrifying "arsenal".

Very impressive arsenal. Are you expecting a war? Are you expecting a home invasion by federal the government?

I don't even have one.

Hell, that's nothing. I know people with hundreds of weapons in their collections.

Here's a nice collection of machineguns for instance.

Men that have gun collections tend to have wives that are unsatisfied in the bedroom.

Well, men and women who have gun collections have money, which means they're successful. Successful people generally have very fulfilling sex lives. Your jealousy is probably explained by your lack of sex.

Men who drive Corvette have money too.

 

[OnePercenter]

Successful people generally have very fulfilling sex lives

--- Linky?

You provide a link that says gun collectors have bad sex lives.

Not my yob. Assertion is your'n, ergo so is burden of proof.

Not my job either buckwheat. One P was spouting the usual anti gun rhetoric so I responded with the same. If you want better you have to present better.

I own two hand guns. I'm not at all anti-gun, I am concerned that sociopaths and psychopaths (plenty on this board) can posses guns.

 

[OnePercenter]

I carry a weapon for self-protection. I don't go into a psychopathic rant and list inventory.

So does Ernie, so do I...either we're all crazy, or none of us are.

Besides, how smart is it to list your arsenal on-line when there might be cops among us? Crazy.

The government knows what I have...I buy and sell everything through licensed FFLs.

My "arsenal" is a bunch of hunting rifles and shotguns. I have ONE non-rimfire, non-single-shot pistol. Seven shotguns, each set up for something different, from a scoped bolt-action 12 gauge turkey gun, to an over-under 410/22LR for squirrels and rabbits. Both of which I've posted about here.

12 Gauge and 50 cal muzzleloader
New project. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

410/22LR
Chiappa Double Badger .22lr .410 O O US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Single shot pistol
The Rossi Trifecta Your Best Bug Out Buddy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

17HMR single shot
.17 HMR H R Handi-rifle US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Modified 12 gauge single shot
Knock-around gun... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Another Pardner 12 gauge converted to black powder.
What do the left consider the greatest threat to America US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

9mm, 22lr double action revolver and 22lr single action revolver. (the Ruger was a 22lr semi-auto, but it's gone now)
Home security US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And a scary black AR-15 I've mentioned owning at least 1000 times.

What are we up to? 11...I also have a 30/30 single shot deer rifle.

There you go, an even dozen that the NSA has unfettered access to...a terrifying "arsenal".

Very impressive arsenal. Are you expecting a war? Are you expecting a home invasion by federal the government?

I don't even have one.

Hell, that's nothing. I know people with hundreds of weapons in their collections.

Here's a nice collection of machineguns for instance.

Men that have gun collections tend to have wives that are unsatisfied in the bedroom.

I vote this the dumbest comment of the month

That tells me I nailed it.

 

[OnePercenter]

No, the statement defines a prepared, vigilant man who frequently carries a large amount of cash and runs a business where people sometimes get to be such good customers that they act like Liberals stupid.

Ever hear of Brinks?

I have, but I'm better armed.

With Brinks your money is insured and you'll never have to get in a fire fight, or is that your intention?

 

[Pogo]

Successful people generally have very fulfilling sex lives

--- Linky?

You provide a link that says gun collectors have bad sex lives.

Not my yob. Assertion is your'n, ergo so is burden of proof.

Not my job either buckwheat. One P was spouting the usual anti gun rhetoric so I responded with the same. If you want better you have to present better.

I own two hand guns. I'm not at all anti-gun, I am concerned that sociopaths and psychopaths (plenty on this board) can posses guns.

I own two or three guns myself, and wouldn't want to give them up:

You know -- actually productive things....

 

[bodecea]

That may be the dumbest, most hypocritical thing you've ever posted...and that's really saying something.

You didn't think that all the way through before you hit reply did you.

'I own a dozen or so. As a matter of fact, there is a .40 with 11 hallow points in my waist band right now'.

The above statement defines crazy.

When I think of someone with a gun in their waist band, I think either gang banger or else someone who is going to shoot their pee pee off. It makes safer sense to have a holster.

 

[bodecea]

I carry a weapon for self-protection. I don't go into a psychopathic rant and list inventory.

So does Ernie, so do I...either we're all crazy, or none of us are.

Besides, how smart is it to list your arsenal on-line when there might be cops among us? Crazy.

The government knows what I have...I buy and sell everything through licensed FFLs.

My "arsenal" is a bunch of hunting rifles and shotguns. I have ONE non-rimfire, non-single-shot pistol. Seven shotguns, each set up for something different, from a scoped bolt-action 12 gauge turkey gun, to an over-under 410/22LR for squirrels and rabbits. Both of which I've posted about here.

12 Gauge and 50 cal muzzleloader
New project. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

410/22LR
Chiappa Double Badger .22lr .410 O O US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Single shot pistol
The Rossi Trifecta Your Best Bug Out Buddy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

17HMR single shot
.17 HMR H R Handi-rifle US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Modified 12 gauge single shot
Knock-around gun... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Another Pardner 12 gauge converted to black powder.
What do the left consider the greatest threat to America US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

9mm, 22lr double action revolver and 22lr single action revolver. (the Ruger was a 22lr semi-auto, but it's gone now)
Home security US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And a scary black AR-15 I've mentioned owning at least 1000 times.

What are we up to? 11...I also have a 30/30 single shot deer rifle.

There you go, an even dozen that the NSA has unfettered access to...a terrifying "arsenal".

Very impressive arsenal. Are you expecting a war? Are you expecting a home invasion by federal the government?

I don't even have one.

Hell, that's nothing. I know people with hundreds of weapons in their collections.

Here's a nice collection of machineguns for instance.

Men that have gun collections tend to have wives that are unsatisfied in the bedroom.

I vote this the dumbest comment of the month

Oh? You have yourself on Ignore now?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I carry a weapon for self-protection. I don't go into a psychopathic rant and list inventory.

So does Ernie, so do I...either we're all crazy, or none of us are.

Besides, how smart is it to list your arsenal on-line when there might be cops among us? Crazy.

The government knows what I have...I buy and sell everything through licensed FFLs.

My "arsenal" is a bunch of hunting rifles and shotguns. I have ONE non-rimfire, non-single-shot pistol. Seven shotguns, each set up for something different, from a scoped bolt-action 12 gauge turkey gun, to an over-under 410/22LR for squirrels and rabbits. Both of which I've posted about here.

12 Gauge and 50 cal muzzleloader
New project. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

410/22LR
Chiappa Double Badger .22lr .410 O O US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Single shot pistol
The Rossi Trifecta Your Best Bug Out Buddy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

17HMR single shot
.17 HMR H R Handi-rifle US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Modified 12 gauge single shot
Knock-around gun... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Another Pardner 12 gauge converted to black powder.
What do the left consider the greatest threat to America US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

9mm, 22lr double action revolver and 22lr single action revolver. (the Ruger was a 22lr semi-auto, but it's gone now)
Home security US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And a scary black AR-15 I've mentioned owning at least 1000 times.

What are we up to? 11...I also have a 30/30 single shot deer rifle.

There you go, an even dozen that the NSA has unfettered access to...a terrifying "arsenal".

Very impressive arsenal. Are you expecting a war? Are you expecting a home invasion by federal the government?

I don't even have one.

Hell, that's nothing. I know people with hundreds of weapons in their collections.

Here's a nice collection of machineguns for instance.

Men that have gun collections tend to have wives that are unsatisfied in the bedroom.

LOL I'd love to see your evidence of that

 

[Ernie S.]

That may be the dumbest, most hypocritical thing you've ever posted...and that's really saying something.

You didn't think that all the way through before you hit reply did you.

'I own a dozen or so. As a matter of fact, there is a .40 with 11 hallow points in my waist band right now'.

The above statement defines crazy.

When I think of someone with a gun in their waist band, I think either gang banger or else someone who is going to shoot their pee pee off. It makes safer sense to have a holster.

This is what I use.

 

[Ernie S.]

You'll notice that the safety and trigger are covered.

 

[westwall]

So does Ernie, so do I...either we're all crazy, or none of us are.

The government knows what I have...I buy and sell everything through licensed FFLs.

My "arsenal" is a bunch of hunting rifles and shotguns. I have ONE non-rimfire, non-single-shot pistol. Seven shotguns, each set up for something different, from a scoped bolt-action 12 gauge turkey gun, to an over-under 410/22LR for squirrels and rabbits. Both of which I've posted about here.

12 Gauge and 50 cal muzzleloader
New project. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

410/22LR
Chiappa Double Badger .22lr .410 O O US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Single shot pistol
The Rossi Trifecta Your Best Bug Out Buddy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

17HMR single shot
.17 HMR H R Handi-rifle US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Modified 12 gauge single shot
Knock-around gun... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Another Pardner 12 gauge converted to black powder.
What do the left consider the greatest threat to America US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

9mm, 22lr double action revolver and 22lr single action revolver. (the Ruger was a 22lr semi-auto, but it's gone now)
Home security US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And a scary black AR-15 I've mentioned owning at least 1000 times.

What are we up to? 11...I also have a 30/30 single shot deer rifle.

There you go, an even dozen that the NSA has unfettered access to...a terrifying "arsenal".

Very impressive arsenal. Are you expecting a war? Are you expecting a home invasion by federal the government?

I don't even have one.

Hell, that's nothing. I know people with hundreds of weapons in their collections.

Here's a nice collection of machineguns for instance.

Men that have gun collections tend to have wives that are unsatisfied in the bedroom.

Well, men and women who have gun collections have money, which means they're successful. Successful people generally have very fulfilling sex lives. Your jealousy is probably explained by your lack of sex.

Men who drive Corvette have money too.

People who have gun collections usually drive good cars, you know, Porches, McLarens, Ferraris...etc.

 

[westwall]

No, the statement defines a prepared, vigilant man who frequently carries a large amount of cash and runs a business where people sometimes get to be such good customers that they act like Liberals stupid.

Ever hear of Brinks?

I have, but I'm better armed.

With Brinks your money is insured and you'll never have to get in a fire fight, or is that your intention?

No, it's the Brinks guard who gets to get killed. Gee that's very nice of him to sacrifice himself for the one percenters out there. How very provincial. We 99 percenters on the other hand take care of OURSELVES.

 

[EverCurious]

The goal here is carnage, visual, aural sensory input of blood and screams and targets running for their lives in fear. Only a gun delivers that. In a way it's more akin to rape than murder, because at the psychological base it's about power (i.e. lack thereof). Firearms deliver instant, if perverse, access to ultimate power.

Oh I think you might be mistaken on that, a particularly nasty knife crime gets all of the above in a far more "sensational" way... They use guns because their afraid to get close to their victim's, they use guns to maintain an advantage in the fight; distance. You could argue that taking guns away means they have to get closer and risk getting disarmed, but that relies on the victim being strong enough to repel their attack. If you ban guns then you have these fucks finding another weapon to hunt with, and facing, a population who isn't /allowed/ to be armed, someone who's got a bat or a tire iron.

With guns available to everyone, these attackers face the very real possibility that anyone could be carrying, and if the victim pulls a gun the attacker has lost their advantage, and better yet they know it. Fear is a good motivator for not attacking people for sport or money, especially good against the dipshits who just want to look "cool" or "dangerous" waving a gun around. Really the worst that happens is what? The attacker shoots their victim? Who's to say the attacker wouldn't have shot them or their next victim anyway? The victim shoots the attacker? Our streets are safer by removing them anyway. Or the attacker runs, maybe gets shot in the back, either way all the other predator's out there are going to have to think a bit more about their action.

There's a reason most wild animals don't typically attack healthy adult pray, they go after the old, sick, and young because its easier, because it's safer - taking away a moose's antlers and hooves would only enable the wolves to kill any of them at will...

 

[Pogo]

No I don't think "more efficiently" is arguable. If that were the case the invention of firearm technology would have been a failure.

("failure" meaning in the sense of popular/widely used of course, not the ethical sense)

Nor can I agree that propensity to murder leads gun violence; rather the technology --- and its very efficiency -- leads to that violence.

Again, random gun nuts going off like this are not out for "murder" per se. Murder is when you catch your spouse in the act. It's specific and personally targeted. The goal here is carnage, visual, aural sensory input of blood and screams and targets running for their lives in fear. Only a gun delivers that. In a way it's more akin to rape than murder, because at the psychological base it's about power (i.e. lack thereof). Firearms deliver instant, if perverse, access to ultimate power.

Murders, intentional targeted ones, can be and certainly are committed by firearms, as are suicides. Part of the same efficiency factor. Without firearms, they would still happen, though to a lesser extent due to the same efficiency factor.

But this sort of random picking off innocent strangers would not.

Oh I think you might be mistaken on that, a particularly nasty knife crime gets all of the above in a far more "sensational" way... They use guns because their afraid to get close to their victim's, they use guns to maintain an advantage in the fight; distance. You could argue that taking guns away means they have to get closer and risk getting disarmed, but that relies on the victim being strong enough to repel their attack. If you ban guns then you have these fucks finding another weapon to hunt with, and facing, a population who isn't /allowed/ to be armed, someone who's got a bat or a tire iron.

Again, neither in this post, nor in this thread, nor anywhere on this site or the entire internet have I advocated "banning guns". And I'd appreciate it if you don't strip out the context of my post (I replaced it above). No, I think the fact that a gun acts as a Horror Remote Control Device is exactly the impetus. That's exactly why it's glorified and romanticized in way too many movies, TV shows, comic books, video games and novels than any of us could ever count. That's why it becomes news fodder -- we all want the gory details to participate vicariously. When you're in a hidden position with a rifle, or just walked into a scene where nobody would expect a war zone, you have a power advantage. And if you inspect any case of a mass/multiple gun shooting, the base dynamic driving them is always just that -- Power. It's a psychological question and has very much to do with (perceptions of) masculinity. That is where the focus should be.

With guns available to everyone, these attackers face the very real possibility that anyone could be carrying, and if the victim pulls a gun the attacker has lost their advantage, and better yet they know it. Fear is a good motivator for not attacking people for sport or money, especially good against the dipshits who just want to look "cool" or "dangerous" waving a gun around. Really the worst that happens is what? The attacker shoots their victim? Who's to say the attacker wouldn't have shot them or their next victim anyway? The victim shoots the attacker? Our streets are safer by removing them anyway. Or the attacker runs, maybe gets shot in the back, either way all the other predator's out there are going to have to think a bit more about their action.

There's a reason most wild animals don't typically attack healthy adult pray, they go after the old, sick, and young because its easier, because it's safer - taking away a moose's antlers and hooves would only enable the wolves to kill any of them at will...

Sorry but I find this approach absolutely mindless. It's basically attacking a fire by tossing gasoline on it. More broadly it's requiring all of us to live in a war zone. What, we're all supposed to hang around and risk getting picked off because our culture can't find the cojones to stand up and decide killing is a value we don't need, until we get our gummint-issed Glock so we can participate in the war too? That's not a planet I'm gonna live on, ever. That's senseless.

 

[westwall]

No I don't think "more efficiently" is arguable. If that were the case the invention of firearm technology would have been a failure.

("failure" meaning in the sense of popular/widely used of course, not the ethical sense)

Nor can I agree that propensity to murder leads gun violence; rather the technology --- and its very efficiency -- leads to that violence.

Again, random gun nuts going off like this are not out for "murder" per se. Murder is when you catch your spouse in the act. It's specific and personally targeted. The goal here is carnage, visual, aural sensory input of blood and screams and targets running for their lives in fear. Only a gun delivers that. In a way it's more akin to rape than murder, because at the psychological base it's about power (i.e. lack thereof). Firearms deliver instant, if perverse, access to ultimate power.

Murders, intentional targeted ones, can be and certainly are committed by firearms, as are suicides. Part of the same efficiency factor. Without firearms, they would still happen, though to a lesser extent due to the same efficiency factor.

But this sort of random picking off innocent strangers would not.

Oh I think you might be mistaken on that, a particularly nasty knife crime gets all of the above in a far more "sensational" way... They use guns because their afraid to get close to their victim's, they use guns to maintain an advantage in the fight; distance. You could argue that taking guns away means they have to get closer and risk getting disarmed, but that relies on the victim being strong enough to repel their attack. If you ban guns then you have these fucks finding another weapon to hunt with, and facing, a population who isn't /allowed/ to be armed, someone who's got a bat or a tire iron.

Again, neither in this post, nor in this thread, nor anywhere on this site or the entire internet have I advocated "banning guns". And I'd appreciate it if you don't strip out the context of my post (I replaced it above). No, I think the fact that a gun acts as a Horror Remote Control Device is exactly the impetus. That's exactly why it's glorified and romanticized in way too many movies, TV shows, comic books, video games and novels than any of us could ever count. That's why it becomes news fodder -- we all want the gory details to participate vicariously. When you're in a hidden position with a rifle, or just walked into a scene where nobody would expect a war zone, you have a power advantage. And if you inspect any case of a mass/multiple gun shooting, the base dynamic driving them is always just that -- Power. It's a psychological question and has very much to do with (perceptions of) masculinity. That is where the focus should be.

With guns available to everyone, these attackers face the very real possibility that anyone could be carrying, and if the victim pulls a gun the attacker has lost their advantage, and better yet they know it. Fear is a good motivator for not attacking people for sport or money, especially good against the dipshits who just want to look "cool" or "dangerous" waving a gun around. Really the worst that happens is what? The attacker shoots their victim? Who's to say the attacker wouldn't have shot them or their next victim anyway? The victim shoots the attacker? Our streets are safer by removing them anyway. Or the attacker runs, maybe gets shot in the back, either way all the other predator's out there are going to have to think a bit more about their action.

There's a reason most wild animals don't typically attack healthy adult pray, they go after the old, sick, and young because its easier, because it's safer - taking away a moose's antlers and hooves would only enable the wolves to kill any of them at will...

Sorry but I find this approach absolutely mindless. It's basically attacking a fire by tossing gasoline on it. More broadly it's requiring all of us to live in a war zone. What, we're all supposed to hang around and risk getting picked off because our culture can't find the cojones to stand up and decide killing is a value we don't need, until we get our gummint-issed Glock so we can participate in the war too? That's not a planet I'm gonna live on, ever. That's senseless.

No, it's not. It is realizing that man is an animal, and like animals the world over there are predators and prey. Man though, is the only "prey" creature that can fight back with better then poor odds in their favor. When a mountain lion attacks a deer the deer usually loses. Occasionally the deer gets the pyhrric victory of doing enough damage to also kill the mountain lion, but that is rare. Far more rare is the deer that kills the mountain lion and gets to walk away.

Mankind though has developed weapons that make everyone equal. No more can the 225 pound, MMA practicing, steroid addled man, assault, and rape or kill, the 95 pound, comparatively feeble woman, with impunity. She can fight back. The reality is that your world doesn't exist. It has NEVER exited, and more to the point, it will never exist, except in your mind.

 

[Pogo]

No, it's not. It is realizing that man is an animal, and like animals the world over there are predators and prey.

See - I think that premise sums up your problem right there. And I will not accept it. Ever. Humans are a social animal --- we ain't plankton.

If that's the sort of planet you wanna create and live on, you're welcome to it.

 

[westwall]

No, it's not. It is realizing that man is an animal, and like animals the world over there are predators and prey.

See - I think that premise sums up your problem right there. And I will not accept it. Ever. Humans are a social animal --- we ain't plankton.

If that's the sort of planet you wanna create and live on, you're welcome to it.

It's not the sort of world I desire to live in, but it IS the reality. No matter how much you wish to think that man is somehow "better" than any other animal, the facts are it simply isn't true. In all the history of mankind, how many have actually achieved enlightenment? How many? You can count them on your fingers and toes. It's a fact that the majority of people don't care about enlightenment. They never will and that dooms the idealistic viewpoint that you entertain.

People are social animals. So are dogs, ants, and bee's. Guess what...they kill each other all the time.