Finally, an answer to why you need an AR15 with 30 round magazines

[OldLady]

So where were all you good guys with guns while this was going on a week ago?

I thought this was why Americans are so safe?

As always, the answer is in where the looting didn't happen. As is almost always the case, this kind of crime is in gun-free zones. Here are some places that weren't burned or looted.

I know some of you think that's heroes out there with their rifles. And they think so, too, no doubt. I see armed hostility against a whole group of people who are paying the price for what a few in cities have done. It makes me wicked sad.

dont be so mad your question fell flat,,,you should be used to that by now,,,

as for your current comment,,,well thats pretty stupid too since there wasnt any hostile actions against any group with guns,,,but the other way around there was a lot of hostility,,,

Was there? In these situations? You so sure about that? What happened last weekend in Vegas or Minneapolis doesn't mean that all the protesters were going to riot. What these people with rifles did was naked intimidation, threat of deadly force against unarmed people walking to a protest. Police accompanied them, to protect them from your "heroes."

I know you'll continue to see these men as heroes. You'll keep being proud of your use of intimidation.

I'm not proud of you, and I'm sure you don't care. I'm just sayin'.

No one gives a fuck what a traitor who finds themselves intimidated thinks. Fuck you, take your shit on down the road; or become a lead sponge.

I'm still not proud of you.

 

[westwall]

Facts...

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Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

Saw the pics. Now you "know why you need a AR15 and a 30 round magazine"? Hmmm. Wasn't 30 targets in any of those pictures. Hmmm. All possible targets less than 15 meters. Hmmm. Only one guy armed and that was with an expedient incendiary. Hmmm. Why, why, why? OK, I got it. You are undisciplined, quick to panic, and a lousy shot because you are untrained and you envision yourself as a crime fighter?

Funny how you think shooting a bad guy one time gets the job done. You watch too many movies and lame ass TV shows. The reality is far different.

Maybe I was trained 1 shot 1 kill? Maybe the ranges to possible target shown were well below minimum zero range for AR-15 and better handled by a pistol or shot gun, unless the plan to engage is spray and pray, as real shots should be aimed and with the sights that I am familiar with pretty well shuts down peripheral vision that may be important in those situations as this ain't Falujah. I believe in different tools for different jobs and that is the way I was trained and how I trained my people. Have nothing against AR-15, but it ain't the answer to everything just cause people have seen them on TV and think they are cool. I put a whole lot of 5.56 down range today. Unlikely you will teach me much about what it is good for and how many times I have to shoot unarmed rioters coming out of a store with clothes drape over one arm to take them down and me go to jail. You go ahead and convince somebody that didn't twenty years running ranges and training troops.

The only people who are trained for one shot, one kill, are USMC scout/snipers and other specialized military and police shooters.

And their average is 2.7 shots per kill. And they are shooting from ambush, and they have a spotter armed with an M4 or equivalent for close in defense.

Like I said, you watch too many movies. Your beliefs are not based on anything factual.

 

[Levant]

Who do you think is going to attack you that you would need such a weapon? Do you think that someone is going to invade your home? You right-wingers are so fearful of your fellow Americans and so cowardly.

I"m so sorry to hear about your coma but I'm glad you've come out of it. You missed that there were riots and looting in many cities and threats by Antifa to move into the suburbs. Black police, black protesters, black bystanders, and black shop owners, have been killed in protests over the death of a black man - and all the blame on white men and President Trump.

 

[meaner gene]

I've posted many times about how many times trained cops miss under pressure of a gun fight. In fact, I understand you're a vet, trained in the M-4. Did you use it in combat? Did every fired round result in a dead enemy? Did ever 2 fired rounds result in a dead enemy?

Not one person hit in this gunfight; luckily not even bystanders.

Too many people here talk about their gun prowess by their marksmanship on the stationary gun range. This is also a problem with the range qualifications police officers have to pass. They are judge on slow-fire accuracy, which is the opposite of a real life situation.

The FBI and other elite federal forces like the air marshalls have to qualify on

One notable exception is the Tactical Pistol Course (TPC). Commonly called the “old Air Marshal (FAM) course,” it was created for Federal Air Marshals in 1992. In cooperation with the Office of Civilian Airline Security, it was developed by a private instructor in the Fort Bragg, NC, area who routinely taught skills to certain units based at that facility. It eventually became the qualification course for all Federal Air Marshals.

From a concealed holster, face a single target at 7 yards. At the start signal, draw and fire one round. Carefully holster and repeat for a total of two single-round strings. The combined time for both strings cannot exceed 3.3 seconds—an average of 1.65 seconds per string.

From a low ready, face the same single target and, at the start signal, deliver two rounds (as a controlled pair). Repeat this once (two pairs; a total of four rounds). The combined time for both strings cannot exceed 2.7 seconds—an average of 1.35 seconds per string.

 

[OldLady]

They weren't threatening anyone. They were defending.

I realize that's how you see it. If I were a protester walking by you, though, I would definitely see it as a threat.

 

[westwall]

I've posted many times about how many times trained cops miss under pressure of a gun fight. In fact, I understand you're a vet, trained in the M-4. Did you use it in combat? Did every fired round result in a dead enemy? Did ever 2 fired rounds result in a dead enemy?

Not one person hit in this gunfight; luckily not even bystanders.

Too many people here talk about their gun prowess by their marksmanship on the stationary gun range. This is also a problem with the range qualifications police officers have to pass. They are judge on slow-fire accuracy, which is the opposite of a real life situation.

The FBI and other elite federal forces like the air marshalls have to qualify on

One notable exception is the Tactical Pistol Course (TPC). Commonly called the “old Air Marshal (FAM) course,” it was created for Federal Air Marshals in 1992. In cooperation with the Office of Civilian Airline Security, it was developed by a private instructor in the Fort Bragg, NC, area who routinely taught skills to certain units based at that facility. It eventually became the qualification course for all Federal Air Marshals.

From a concealed holster, face a single target at 7 yards. At the start signal, draw and fire one round. Carefully holster and repeat for a total of two single-round strings. The combined time for both strings cannot exceed 3.3 seconds—an average of 1.65 seconds per string.

From a low ready, face the same single target and, at the start signal, deliver two rounds (as a controlled pair). Repeat this once (two pairs; a total of four rounds). The combined time for both strings cannot exceed 2.7 seconds—an average of 1.35 seconds per string.

That's why I still compete in IDPA shoots. Some of the best practice out there. I also have attended Gunsite going back to the Jeff Cooper days.

It's been interesting to see how the tactics and gun handling have changed over the years.

 

[westwall]

They weren't threatening anyone. They were defending.

I realize that's how you see it. If I were a protester walking by you, though, I would definitely see it as a threat.

And yet you seem to ignore the goons dressed in black hurling bricks.

Huh, actual real thugs hurting people, and stationary people carrying guns not bothering anybody.

Either your head or your heart need a good examination.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Facts...

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Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

 

[Levant]

Was there? In these situations? You so sure about that? What happened last weekend in Vegas or Minneapolis doesn't mean that all the protesters were going to riot. What these people with rifles did was naked intimidation, threat of deadly force against unarmed people walking to a protest. Police accompanied them, to protect them from your "heroes."

I know you'll continue to see these men as heroes. You'll keep being proud of your use of intimidation.

I'm not proud of you, and I'm sure you don't care. I'm just sayin'.

Because they weren't ALL going to riot we should not prepare to defend against those who do?

You're right; it was naked intimidation. Rioters and looters should understand that he consequence of burning or looting someone's property is deadly force. The big question is, where were the police who should have been protecting these from the rioters and looters? Where's your concern for these?

Black Business Owner Rips BLM Movement: 'We're Trying To Build It Up And You're Tearing It Down'

The co-owner of a store took the Black Lives Matter movement to task for 'tearing' the neighborhood down and destroying her business.

www.westernjournal.com

Woman BEATEN with PLANKS as she tries to defend store from looters (DISTURBING VIDEO)

Video footage has emerged of a woman being beaten with planks as she attempted to defend her store from looters, as riots and chaos grip the streets of many US cities, following the police killing of George Floyd.

www.rt.com

And who's going to protect the black community in Atlanta from these stolen weapons taken during riots and looting?

Dozens of guns stolen from Atlanta store during looting, owner says

An Atlanta gun store owner says he’s hoping that “no one will get hurt” after 42 handguns were stolen from his business over the weekend during looting sparked by the death of George Floyd.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

Nothing cures a riot like FLAMMEN WERFER!

 

[OldLady]

And yet you seem to ignore the goons dressed in black hurling bricks.

I did not see that in any of the pics he showed.

 

[Levant]

Five round magazines would due. These anarchists are generally cowards who prey on innocent victims. They would go whining to the first democrat politician or CNN reporter they could find once they were met with a couple of rounds of deadly physical force.

What if there were more than 5 assailants? Or if you missed one? Or if one didn't go down when you hit him? Or you didn't attend White 6's fake 1shot 1 kill combat training class?

 

[White 6]

Facts...

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Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

Saw the pics. Now you "know why you need a AR15 and a 30 round magazine"? Hmmm. Wasn't 30 targets in any of those pictures. Hmmm. All possible targets less than 15 meters. Hmmm. Only one guy armed and that was with an expedient incendiary. Hmmm. Why, why, why? OK, I got it. You are undisciplined, quick to panic, and a lousy shot because you are untrained and you envision yourself as a crime fighter?

Funny how you think shooting a bad guy one time gets the job done. You watch too many movies and lame ass TV shows. The reality is far different.

Maybe I was trained 1 shot 1 kill? Maybe the ranges to possible target shown were well below minimum zero range for AR-15 and better handled by a pistol or shot gun, unless the plan to engage is spray and pray, as real shots should be aimed and with the sights that I am familiar with pretty well shuts down peripheral vision that may be important in those situations as this ain't Falujah. I believe in different tools for different jobs and that is the way I was trained and how I trained my people. Have nothing against AR-15, but it ain't the answer to everything just cause people have seen them on TV and think they are cool. I put a whole lot of 5.56 down range today. Unlikely you will teach me much about what it is good for and how many times I have to shoot unarmed rioters coming out of a store with clothes drape over one arm to take them down and me go to jail. You go ahead and convince somebody that didn't twenty years running ranges and training troops.

The only people who are trained for one shot, one kill, are USMC scout/snipers and other specialized military and police shooters.

And their average is 2.7 shots per kill. And they are shooting from ambush, and they have a spotter armed with an M4 or equivalent for close in defense.

Like I said, you watch too many movies. Your beliefs are not based on anything factual.

Not so. You watch too many movies. Not everything calls for volley fire. Many people are well trained and have trained others who were not snipers. This thread had a lot of holes in it, but not as many the the 8-1/2 x 11 target I shot this afternoon at 50 meters with my Walther PPQ, and that was just fooling around while we were were zeroing his new AR. There is not a personal weapon, crew served weapon or weapon system that I fired on active duty that I didn't become Expert on as graded by the Army and I have OICd more ranges than I could possibly count up over my career. Though not as good as I once was, my 50 meter zero targets on the AR-15 today were in 1-1/2 inch groups. My son did about as well. Don't bother trying to teach me about small arms marksmanship over the internet. I don't remember seeing you on a firing line.

 

[OldLady]

Was there? In these situations? You so sure about that? What happened last weekend in Vegas or Minneapolis doesn't mean that all the protesters were going to riot. What these people with rifles did was naked intimidation, threat of deadly force against unarmed people walking to a protest. Police accompanied them, to protect them from your "heroes."

I know you'll continue to see these men as heroes. You'll keep being proud of your use of intimidation.

I'm not proud of you, and I'm sure you don't care. I'm just sayin'.

Because they weren't ALL going to riot we should not prepare to defend against those who do?

You're right; it was naked intimidation. Rioters and looters should understand that he consequence of burning or looting someone's property is deadly force. The big question is, where were the police who should have been protecting these from the rioters and looters? Where's your concern for these?

Black Business Owner Rips BLM Movement: 'We're Trying To Build It Up And You're Tearing It Down'

The co-owner of a store took the Black Lives Matter movement to task for 'tearing' the neighborhood down and destroying her business.

www.westernjournal.com

Woman BEATEN with PLANKS as she tries to defend store from looters (DISTURBING VIDEO)

Video footage has emerged of a woman being beaten with planks as she attempted to defend her store from looters, as riots and chaos grip the streets of many US cities, following the police killing of George Floyd.

www.rt.com

And who's going to protect the black community in Atlanta from these stolen weapons taken during riots and looting?

Dozens of guns stolen from Atlanta store during looting, owner says

An Atlanta gun store owner says he’s hoping that “no one will get hurt” after 42 handguns were stolen from his business over the weekend during looting sparked by the death of George Floyd.

www.foxnews.com

I can understand your argument, but I just wonder if it is necessary. Where is the provocation in those situations?
I'm tired and I'm never going to change your mind. You haven't changed mine, either.

 

[Levant]

I realize that's how you see it. If I were a protester walking by you, though, I would definitely see it as a threat.

That you're a hoplophobe is not my concern. You should find some psychological help for that. Help can also be found at your local gun range.

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

So where were all you good guys with guns while this was going on a week ago?

I thought this was why Americans are so safe?

They are destroying their own habitat . Law abiding citizens dont go oit looking to harm folks and get in trouble . But you better damn believe that if you think that your little gang of terrorists are going to march out into the sticks and rural America and threaten our family and burn down our livelihood, you better pack a lunch ... we will protect what is ours ....

 

[Levant]

That's why I still compete in IDPA shoots. Some of the best practice out there. I also have attended Gunsite going back to the Jeff Cooper days.

It's been interesting to see how the tactics and gun handling have changed over the years.

Just as the lockdowns were starting I was outfitting to join an IDPA club in Tulsa. After things settle I hope to start up. Where I live, there's nowhere to shoot for about 75+ miles but I think the IDPA stuff will be fun even if a challenging time commitment.

 

[Levant]

And yet you seem to ignore the goons dressed in black hurling bricks.

I did not see that in any of the pics he showed.

Geeze, you're dense. Of course you didn't see bricks being thrown there. The places were protected by people with guns! The bricks are thrown where there are no people with guns.

You know; it just hit me. I know what's driving your feigned idiocy. You actually WANT to see gunfire between people defending their homes and Antifa or protesters. It would serve your political agenda and if it takes a few lives to do it, that's OK. Just like the Democrats, Antifa, and BLM killing and rioting across the country - lives don't matter, not even black ones. All that matters is the agenda - first destroy Trump, next destroy the nation.

 

[Levant]

Not so. You watch too many movies. Not everything calls for volley fire. Many people are well trained and have trained others who were not snipers. This thread had a lot of holes in it, but not as many the the 8-1/2 x 11 target I shot this afternoon at 50 meters with my Walther PPQ, and that was just fooling around while we were were zeroing his new AR. There is not a personal weapon, crew served weapon or weapon system that I fired on active duty that I didn't become Expert on as graded by the Army and I have OICd more ranges than I could possibly count up over my career. Though not as good as I once was, my 50 meter zero targets on the AR-15 today were in 1-1/2 inch groups. My son did about as well. Don't bother trying to teach me about small arms marksmanship over the internet. I don't remember seeing you on a firing line.

I say bullshit, stolen valor. Your 1 shot 1 kill statement shows the lie in all you've said. You're making it up.

It's my understanding that infantry goes into the field with 7 magazines: 210 rounds. That's 210 dead enemy every time they go out, right? 1 shot 1 kill? Isn't that how it works?

 

[meaner gene]

I say bullshit, stolen valor. Your 1 shot 1 kill statement shows the lie in all you've said. You're making it up.

It's my understanding that infantry goes into the field with 7 magazines: 210 rounds. That's 210 dead enemy every time they go out, right? 1 shot 1 kill? Isn't that how it works?

I've had many arguments like this over the years, and the one thing they all had in common, is that nobody making the argument how good a shot he was, actually proved it in combat, where your targets fired back.

Everybody believes their shooting skills at the range, will be maintained in a gunfight.