Finally, an answer to why you need an AR15 with 30 round magazines

[westwall]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

Ah.., You do know that all officers started the officer ranks at entry level officer ranks before progressing. Very good. Of course, some of us wore stripes before wearing bars. Nice try sport.

Do believe in 1 shot 1 kill. Started early hunting squirrel on the farm using a .22 with my dad. He didn't believe in wasting ammunition and would not give me more if I was not hitting at times. Other kids fathers had the same training methods. It works. Oh, and you haven't heard me talk about restricting anybody. Ever. Somehow I doubt you have ever been in an infantry platoon or any other type platoon, although you never said you were. Were you aware one of the basic tenets of the trade is to not become decisively engaged, as you cannot be performing your mission of probing forward and on the flanks locating the enemy if you are pinned down, while the main enemy bypasses your position to attack your main body's flanks while you are pinned down by a small enemy force in a superior position during recon operations? Sometimes better to call for immediate suppression HE/Smoke from mortar Platoon or FA to cover your move, maintaining ability to direct fire, lift and shift and let the tanks do the heavy lifting on well planned superior positions. It's a basic Armor thing.
Nobody cares about what you believe. Again, thanks for playing, sport.

Just a heads up, the average expenditure for infantry to bring down ONE target, is around 10,000 rounds.

Just pointing out the difference between theoretical, and factual.

 

[White 6]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

Ah.., You do know that all officers started the officer ranks at entry level officer ranks before progressing. Very good. Of course, some of us wore stripes before wearing bars. Nice try sport.

Do believe in 1 shot 1 kill. Started early hunting squirrel on the farm using a .22 with my dad. He didn't believe in wasting ammunition and would not give me more if I was not hitting at times. Other kids fathers had the same training methods. It works. Oh, and you haven't heard me talk about restricting anybody. Ever. Somehow I doubt you have ever been in an infantry platoon or any other type platoon, although you never said you were. Were you aware one of the basic tenets of the trade is to not become decisively engaged, as you cannot be performing your mission of probing forward and on the flanks locating the enemy if you are pinned down, while the main enemy bypasses your position to attack your main body's flanks while you are pinned down by a small enemy force in a superior position during recon operations? Sometimes better to call for immediate suppression HE/Smoke from mortar Platoon or FA to cover your move, maintaining ability to direct fire, lift and shift and let the tanks do the heavy lifting on well planned superior positions. It's a basic Armor thing.
Nobody cares about what you believe. Again, thanks for playing, sport.

Just a heads up, the average expenditure for infantry to bring down ONE target, is around 10,000 rounds.

Just pointing out the difference between theoretical, and factual.

Never been much of a spray and pray kind of guy. Studied a lot of logistics in advance school. Fairly aware of the point you are trying to make. Not too sure you want civilians putting that kind of ammo expenditure per target against rioters on the streets of DC. As I told somebody else, this ain't Falujah.

 

[westwall]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

Ah.., You do know that all officers started the officer ranks at entry level officer ranks before progressing. Very good. Of course, some of us wore stripes before wearing bars. Nice try sport.

Do believe in 1 shot 1 kill. Started early hunting squirrel on the farm using a .22 with my dad. He didn't believe in wasting ammunition and would not give me more if I was not hitting at times. Other kids fathers had the same training methods. It works. Oh, and you haven't heard me talk about restricting anybody. Ever. Somehow I doubt you have ever been in an infantry platoon or any other type platoon, although you never said you were. Were you aware one of the basic tenets of the trade is to not become decisively engaged, as you cannot be performing your mission of probing forward and on the flanks locating the enemy if you are pinned down, while the main enemy bypasses your position to attack your main body's flanks while you are pinned down by a small enemy force in a superior position during recon operations? Sometimes better to call for immediate suppression HE/Smoke from mortar Platoon or FA to cover your move, maintaining ability to direct fire, lift and shift and let the tanks do the heavy lifting on well planned superior positions. It's a basic Armor thing.
Nobody cares about what you believe. Again, thanks for playing, sport.

Just a heads up, the average expenditure for infantry to bring down ONE target, is around 10,000 rounds.

Just pointing out the difference between theoretical, and factual.

Never been much of a spray and pray kind of guy. Studied a lot of logistics in advance school. Fairly aware of the point you are trying to make. Not too sure you want civilians putting that kind of ammo expenditure per target against rioters on the streets of DC. As I told somebody else, this ain't Falujah.

Most soldiers aren't until shit starts flying at them. The real world is far, far different from the target range.

John Wick is actually good because Reeves takes the time to do the proper training. And the gunplay is pretty spot on. And he shoots the bad guys multiple times....because you have to.


As far as ammunition expenditure goes, people need to have enough ammo to get the job done. Bad guys don't play by the rules, so why should innocent civilians be castrated by stupid laws that only help bad people?

 

[White 6]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

Ah.., You do know that all officers started the officer ranks at entry level officer ranks before progressing. Very good. Of course, some of us wore stripes before wearing bars. Nice try sport.

Do believe in 1 shot 1 kill. Started early hunting squirrel on the farm using a .22 with my dad. He didn't believe in wasting ammunition and would not give me more if I was not hitting at times. Other kids fathers had the same training methods. It works. Oh, and you haven't heard me talk about restricting anybody. Ever. Somehow I doubt you have ever been in an infantry platoon or any other type platoon, although you never said you were. Were you aware one of the basic tenets of the trade is to not become decisively engaged, as you cannot be performing your mission of probing forward and on the flanks locating the enemy if you are pinned down, while the main enemy bypasses your position to attack your main body's flanks while you are pinned down by a small enemy force in a superior position during recon operations? Sometimes better to call for immediate suppression HE/Smoke from mortar Platoon or FA to cover your move, maintaining ability to direct fire, lift and shift and let the tanks do the heavy lifting on well planned superior positions. It's a basic Armor thing.
Nobody cares about what you believe. Again, thanks for playing, sport.

Just a heads up, the average expenditure for infantry to bring down ONE target, is around 10,000 rounds.

Just pointing out the difference between theoretical, and factual.

Never been much of a spray and pray kind of guy. Studied a lot of logistics in advance school. Fairly aware of the point you are trying to make. Not too sure you want civilians putting that kind of ammo expenditure per target against rioters on the streets of DC. As I told somebody else, this ain't Falujah.

Most soldiers aren't until shit starts flying at them. The real world is far, far different from the target range.

John Wick is actually good because Reeves takes the time to do the proper training. And the gunplay is pretty spot on. And he shoots the bad guys multiple times....because you have to.


As far as ammunition expenditure goes, people need to have enough ammo to get the job done. Bad guys don't play by the rules, so why should innocent civilians be castrated by stupid laws that only help bad people?

Very true. If it is unarmed rioters as in the pictures being discussed on this thread, as in just planning to murder them as targets of opportunity, not a gun fight, it really does not take as many rounds, especially in the less than 10 meter shots shown, though probably after the first two, the others would be running for cover or pulling their pistols, then you would have a gunfight. John Wick, eh? Yep. Had a high body count in those movies and he used a variety of weapons. Good fun for the whole family.

 

[westwall]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

Ah.., You do know that all officers started the officer ranks at entry level officer ranks before progressing. Very good. Of course, some of us wore stripes before wearing bars. Nice try sport.

Do believe in 1 shot 1 kill. Started early hunting squirrel on the farm using a .22 with my dad. He didn't believe in wasting ammunition and would not give me more if I was not hitting at times. Other kids fathers had the same training methods. It works. Oh, and you haven't heard me talk about restricting anybody. Ever. Somehow I doubt you have ever been in an infantry platoon or any other type platoon, although you never said you were. Were you aware one of the basic tenets of the trade is to not become decisively engaged, as you cannot be performing your mission of probing forward and on the flanks locating the enemy if you are pinned down, while the main enemy bypasses your position to attack your main body's flanks while you are pinned down by a small enemy force in a superior position during recon operations? Sometimes better to call for immediate suppression HE/Smoke from mortar Platoon or FA to cover your move, maintaining ability to direct fire, lift and shift and let the tanks do the heavy lifting on well planned superior positions. It's a basic Armor thing.
Nobody cares about what you believe. Again, thanks for playing, sport.

Just a heads up, the average expenditure for infantry to bring down ONE target, is around 10,000 rounds.

Just pointing out the difference between theoretical, and factual.

Never been much of a spray and pray kind of guy. Studied a lot of logistics in advance school. Fairly aware of the point you are trying to make. Not too sure you want civilians putting that kind of ammo expenditure per target against rioters on the streets of DC. As I told somebody else, this ain't Falujah.

Most soldiers aren't until shit starts flying at them. The real world is far, far different from the target range.

John Wick is actually good because Reeves takes the time to do the proper training. And the gunplay is pretty spot on. And he shoots the bad guys multiple times....because you have to.


As far as ammunition expenditure goes, people need to have enough ammo to get the job done. Bad guys don't play by the rules, so why should innocent civilians be castrated by stupid laws that only help bad people?

Very true. If it is unarmed rioters as in the pictures being discussed on this thread, as in just planning to murder them as targets of opportunity, not a gun fight, it really does not take as many rounds, especially in the less than 10 meter shots shown, though probably after the first two, the others would be running for cover or pulling their pistols, then you would have a gunfight. John Wick, eh? Yep. Had a high body count in those movies and he used a variety of weapons. Good fun for the whole family.

And that's the whole point. People don't stand there like statues waiting for you to shoot them. They are moving and shooting all of the time, so the idea of one shot one kill is fanciful at best.

 

[Levant]

I'm trained for one shot one kill,,and I've never been in the military,,,

That's hunting philosophy. No military unit or law enforcement agency has any such belief. It's not possible.

 

[Levant]

Facts...

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Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

Saw the pics. Now you "know why you need a AR15 and a 30 round magazine"? Hmmm. Wasn't 30 targets in any of those pictures. Hmmm. All possible targets less than 15 meters. Hmmm. Only one guy armed and that was with an expedient incendiary. Hmmm. Why, why, why? OK, I got it. You are undisciplined, quick to panic, and a lousy shot because you are untrained and you envision yourself as a crime fighter?

Funny how you think shooting a bad guy one time gets the job done. You watch too many movies and lame ass TV shows. The reality is far different.

Maybe I was trained 1 shot 1 kill? Maybe the ranges to possible target shown were well below minimum zero range for AR-15 and better handled by a pistol or shot gun, unless the plan to engage is spray and pray, as real shots should be aimed and with the sights that I am familiar with pretty well shuts down peripheral vision that may be important in those situations as this ain't Falujah. I believe in different tools for different jobs and that is the way I was trained and how I trained my people. Have nothing against AR-15, but it ain't the answer to everything just cause people have seen them on TV and think they are cool. I put a whole lot of 5.56 down range today. Unlikely you will teach me much about what it is good for and how many times I have to shoot unarmed rioters coming out of a store with clothes drape over one arm to take them down and me go to jail. You go ahead and convince somebody that didn't twenty years running ranges and training troops.

The only people who are trained for one shot, one kill, are USMC scout/snipers and other specialized military and police shooters.

And their average is 2.7 shots per kill. And they are shooting from ambush, and they have a spotter armed with an M4 or equivalent for close in defense.

Like I said, you watch too many movies. Your beliefs are not based on anything factual.

I'm trained for one shot one kill,,and I've never been in the military,,,

Yes, that is always the goal, but as the records show, the best in the world, the USMC scout snipers, average 2.7 per kill.

But a friend of mine, who is a USAF pararescue probably said it best, "place the shot, assess the situation, repeat as necessary".

A true professional with dozens of real life missions under his belt.

But it's on the Internet: 1 shot 1 kill. And I saw Arnold do it on TV. And I'm going to do it in the boogaloo. I hit my target every time at the range... well, almost every time.. But that's different. When it counts an Antifa will fall for every bullet I own...Yep..

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm trained for one shot one kill,,and I've never been in the military,,,

That's hunting philosophy. No military unit or law enforcement agency has any such belief. It's not possible.

how so???

 

[Levant]

Ah.., You do know that all officers started the officer ranks at entry level officer ranks before progressing. Very good. Of course, some of us wore stripes before wearing bars. Nice try sport.

You're still an idiot. That's why the gave you a commission before you became a sergeant.

Do believe in 1 shot 1 kill. Started early hunting squirrel on the farm using a .22 with my dad. He didn't believe in wasting ammunition and would not give me more if I was not hitting at times. Other kids fathers had the same training methods. It works.

See.. Now you admit you are a fucking liar. You phrased all your 1 shot 1 kill on your experience teaching marksmanship in the Army.. Now it turns out that your 1 shot 1 kill training was your dad and a .22 rifle shooting squirrels. Seems I already said it was a good hunting philosophy but has nothing at all to do with combat. And your fucking lies that your squad were better marksmen than the snipers so that you didn't have to answer about the 2.7 shot average that the real marksmen have, is just another lie. You've lost all credibility here.

Oh, and you haven't heard me talk about restricting anybody. Ever. Somehow I doubt you have ever been in an infantry platoon or any other type platoon, although you never said you were. Were you aware one of the basic tenets of the trade is to not become decisively engaged, as you cannot be performing your mission of probing forward and on the flanks locating the enemy if you are pinned down, while the main enemy bypasses your position to attack your main body's flanks while you are pinned down by a small enemy force in a superior position during recon operations? Sometimes better to call for immediate suppression HE/Smoke from mortar Platoon or FA to cover your move, maintaining ability to direct fire, lift and shift and let the tanks do the heavy lifting on well planned superior positions. It's a basic Armor thing.
Nobody cares about what you believe. Again, thanks for playing, sport.

Really? There are combat scenarios where you have to pin an attacker? Suppress their firing? There are scenarios where you're firing just to keep them from getting a shot at you? Wow. And I guess those don't count in your 1 shot 1 kill... You only count the bullets that hit the enemy and yield a one-shot stop. The others don't count. Either they didn't hit so you can't possibly be expected to count those. Or the bad guy cheated and moved so he didn't die from one shot... That can't possibly count against you. When, 27 shots later, you finally hit the heart and he falls, that's one shot, one kill - because the fatal show was just a single shot..

And those scenarios where you have to suppress a group of attackers just don't happen in home invasions.. The bad guys all stand there and wait for you to shoot them like sitting ducks. So all those exceptions that mean that you never were in a platoon that had a 1 shot 1 kill average, or even a 10 shot 1 kill average, just don't apply to anyone except you. What a fucking lying, moronic, piece of shit.

 

[Levant]

Never been much of a spray and pray kind of guy. Studied a lot of logistics in advance school. Fairly aware of the point you are trying to make. Not too sure you want civilians putting that kind of ammo expenditure per target against rioters on the streets of DC. As I told somebody else, this ain't Falujah.

You keep talking about study and school. Very telling. So you never actually saw combat and have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

As for being a spray and pray kind of guy, that's more lying bullshit. You follow the tactics and procedures you're trained to follow and ordered to follow. If you were so much smarter than all of the rest of the Army, why aren't you a general in charge of an infantry tactics development group? All they needed was to know your dad and so many friendly lives would be saved, so many enemy lives taken, and billions saved on ammunition. Who'da thunk it.. They just needed you to tell them 1 shot 1 kill... And the lightbulbs in the Pentagon would have gone off so fast that they'd be reporting it from the Space Station.

 

[Levant]

That's hunting philosophy. No military unit or law enforcement agency has any such belief. It's not possible.

how so???

Like I just told White 6 - you can read it for yourself. If it was so simple then why isn't it happening in the Army infantry? Did you just forget to write them a suggestion? Was the Miami shootout 1 shot 1 kill? Was the video I posted earlier in t his thread 1 shot 1 kill where the police were in a shootout not 20 feet from two bad guys, dozens of shots fired between them all, and not a single person hit... 1 shot 1 kill is a TV movie fantasy.

 

[progressive hunter]

That's hunting philosophy. No military unit or law enforcement agency has any such belief. It's not possible.

how so???

Like I just told White 6 - you can read it for yourself. If it was so simple then why isn't it happening in the Army infantry? Did you just forget to write them a suggestion? Was the Miami shootout 1 shot 1 kill? Was the video I posted earlier in t his thread 1 shot 1 kill where the police were in a shootout not 20 feet from two bad guys, dozens of shots fired between them all, and not a single person hit... 1 shot 1 kill is a TV movie fantasy.

my comment was specific that most training is for one shot one kill,,,doesnt mean everybody succeeds at it,,,

 

[Marion Morrison]

here's a short demo of the kind of AR I have.

That's not an AR at all.

 

[Marion Morrison]

And yet you seem to ignore the goons dressed in black hurling bricks.

I did not see that in any of the pics he showed.

Geeze, you're dense. Of course you didn't see bricks being thrown there. The places were protected by people with guns! The bricks are thrown where there are no people with guns.

You know; it just hit me. I know what's driving your feigned idiocy. You actually WANT to see gunfire between people defending their homes and Antifa or protesters. It would serve your political agenda and if it takes a few lives to do it, that's OK. Just like the Democrats, Antifa, and BLM killing and rioting across the country - lives don't matter, not even black ones. All that matters is the agenda - first destroy Trump, next destroy the nation.

It's probably been months since OldLady saw a black at all. Not too many of those in Maine.

 

[westwall]

I'm trained for one shot one kill,,and I've never been in the military,,,

That's hunting philosophy. No military unit or law enforcement agency has any such belief. It's not possible.

how so???

Because deer don't shoot back.

 

[Crepitus]

Facts...

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Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

So, you want to murder people.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm trained for one shot one kill,,and I've never been in the military,,,

That's hunting philosophy. No military unit or law enforcement agency has any such belief. It's not possible.

how so???

Because deer don't shoot back.

wheres the fun in that???

 

[miketx]

Facts...

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View attachment 346685

View attachment 346686

View attachment 346687


Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

So, you want to murder people.

Why am I not surprised?

Because you're a liar. Keep it up, more and more people are seeing what trash you vermin are.

 

[westwall]

That's hunting philosophy. No military unit or law enforcement agency has any such belief. It's not possible.

how so???

Like I just told White 6 - you can read it for yourself. If it was so simple then why isn't it happening in the Army infantry? Did you just forget to write them a suggestion? Was the Miami shootout 1 shot 1 kill? Was the video I posted earlier in t his thread 1 shot 1 kill where the police were in a shootout not 20 feet from two bad guys, dozens of shots fired between them all, and not a single person hit... 1 shot 1 kill is a TV movie fantasy.

my comment was specific that most training is for one shot one kill,,,doesnt mean everybody succeeds at it,,,

And as the real statistics show, even the best in the world need 2.7 shots to do it.

 

[westwall]

Facts...

View attachment 346681

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Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

So, you want to murder people.

Why am I not surprised?

No you lying sack of shit. no one here wants to have to kill anyone. We are just prepared for if your assholes try to murder US.

Moronic twit you are.