First direct observation of carbon dioxide's greenhouse effect at Earth's surface

[Old Rocks]

History of Atmospheric CO2 through geological time (past 550 million years: from Berner, Science, 1997). The parameter RCO2 is defined as the ratio of the mass of CO2in the atmosphere at some time in the past to that at present (with a pre-industrial value of 300 parts per million). The heavier line joining small squares represents the best estimate of past atmospheric CO2 levels based on geochemical modeling and updated to have the effect of land plants on weathering introduced 380 to 350 million years ago. The shaded area encloses the approximate range of error of the modeling based on sensitivity analysis. Vertical bars represent independent estimates of CO2 level based on the study of ancient soils.

The last time there was 4000 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere, longterm, was about 350 million years ago. Quite a bit before the evolution of mammals. Even before the evolution of therapsids. At about 250 million years ago, there was a very large spike in CO2 and CH4, that was the P-T Extinction. Really, Billy Boob, look up things before making a fool of yourself.

And the temperature NEVER ran away...

Wrong.

End-Permian mass extinction the Great Dying Natural History Museum

Causes
A single supercontinent, Pangaea, stretched from pole to pole in the Permian Period. Thishuge landmass created extremely hot, dry conditions across most of the interior. By the Late Permian, global temperatures were thehighest they’d ever been.

The severe conditions meant vast numbers of land and marine species were at risk. And then something happened that tipped them over the edge - one of the biggest volcanic eruptions ever.

Huge volcanic eruptions in Siberia are likely to have been a major trigger of the end-Permian extinction event.

Over the course of about 600,000 years huge volumes of viscous basalt lava poured out across Siberia, covering an area roughly 7 times the size of France.

Massive clouds of gases belched out. The sulphur dioxide caused acid rain and global cooling. But this was only short-term. The temperature increased as the eruptions injected carbon dioxide into the atmosphereand yet more escaped from coal deposits exposed in the surrounding area.

As the oceans warmed, frozen methanelocated in marine sediments may have melted. If so, the release of this potent greenhouse gas could have turned the planet’s temperature upeven more.

As well as being devastating for marine and land plants and animals, Late Permian environmental changes created anoxic conditions in the sea. This lack of oxygen caused additional widespread extinctions because it destroyed food chains.

 

[Billy_Bob]

0.2 w/m2/decade
Assuming an average surface temperature of 15 C = 288K
Plugging into Stefan-Boltzmann Law
P(w/m2)=5.67*10^-8*T^4
Arrives at a temperature increase of 0.037 degrees per decade

Assuming a linear response, that’s only 0.37 degrees per century
Assuming that water vapor feedback TRIPLES the effect, It’s only about 1 degree per century.

But, the earth isn’t average so using the same math:
at -30 C + .2 w/m2/decade = 0.06 degrees/decade
at +30 C + .2 w/m2/decade = 0.032 degrees/decade

I’m good with this result. Embrace it. It debunks the alarmism nicely.

 

[orogenicman]

Please post attribution as to cause of warming... Most of those I work with agree that the cause is the massive polar low and cooling creating instability in the low and weak magnetic fields allowing the atmosphere to expand. This expansion allows faster cooling at high altitudes and temperature imbalance ie;polar jet size and power increase. The resulting collision with the equatorial jet causes massive swings of warm air to be pulled to the cooling Arctic. Its called the earths paradoxical presentation. This is exactly what the Antarctic did 4 years ago and you see what has resulted in the cooling of the southern hemisphere..

This is only the beginning of the cold phase we have just entered..

Erm, most of those you work with? Fry cooks at Denny's are experts in Global Warming? Really?

 

[Old Rocks]

Ah, but remember ol' Billy Boob has a MA in Criminalogy, several other degrees, and is working on his Phd in Atmospheric Physics. LOL.

 

[IanC]

has anyone got a link to the paper yet?

I thought at the current range of CO2 every one part per million would add ~0.015W at the surface. shouldnt they have found 0.3W? is this yet another example of lower than expected results?

 

[mamooth]

Billy still won't say whether he's abandoned his Sky Dragon Slayer buddies. He appears to have done so, given that how he has accepted all the measurements of backradiation here.

Billy, can you confirm that you now agree the Sky Dragon Slayers are all totally wrong about how backradiation not existing? You can't have it both ways, contradicting that crowd here and then running back to PSI or Hockey Schtick whenever it's convenient. They're either right or wrong. If they're right, you shouldn't be accepting anything in this paper. So make a choice and stick with it.

And Billy? The earth doesn't act like a black body radiator, because of that pesky atmosphere with greenhouse gases. As usual, your analysis fails hilariously, since it started with fallacious assumption.

 

[jc456]

History of Atmospheric CO2 through geological time (past 550 million years: from Berner, Science, 1997). The parameter RCO2 is defined as the ratio of the mass of CO2in the atmosphere at some time in the past to that at present (with a pre-industrial value of 300 parts per million). The heavier line joining small squares represents the best estimate of past atmospheric CO2 levels based on geochemical modeling and updated to have the effect of land plants on weathering introduced 380 to 350 million years ago. The shaded area encloses the approximate range of error of the modeling based on sensitivity analysis. Vertical bars represent independent estimates of CO2 level based on the study of ancient soils.

The last time there was 4000 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere, longterm, was about 350 million years ago. Quite a bit before the evolution of mammals. Even before the evolution of therapsids. At about 250 million years ago, there was a very large spike in CO2 and CH4, that was the P-T Extinction. Really, Billy Boob, look up things before making a fool of yourself.

so what? Was it at 4000 because of humans? Obviously no. So any reference today about human influence is not logical, nor is it anything that requires attention anyway since we have 3600 to go to reach previous earth history. I'd prefer to see evidence from an experiment, you know. You ain't got it. Not even the new one addresses temperature. FAIL

 

[jc456]

Billy still won't say whether he's abandoned his Sky Dragon Slayer buddies. He appears to have done so, given that how he has accepted all the measurements of backradiation here.

Billy, can you confirm that you now agree the Sky Dragon Slayers are all totally wrong about how backradiation not existing? You can't have it both ways, contradicting that crowd here and then running back to PSI or Hockey Schtick whenever it's convenient. They're either right or wrong. If they're right, you shouldn't be accepting anything in this paper. So make a choice and stick with it.

And Billy? The earth doesn't act like a black body radiator, because of that pesky atmosphere with greenhouse gases. As usual, your analysis fails hilariously, since it started with fallacious assumption.

it's a shame you can't discuss civilly. The fact that you treat others as you do, only demonstrates a combative nature rather than one for working toward agreement. And you most often post with no data to support your side.

4000 PPM vs 400. Hmmmmm, did you know that?

 

[mamooth]

jc, quit being such a pathetic asskisser. And stop calling for civility, being that makes you look like a hypocrite. If you want civility, there's an easy way to get it. Start acting civil. You get back the treatment you give.

Now, since Billy is so reluctant to answer, I'll make it even simpler for him. Billy, answer this simple question with a simple "yes" or "no".

Does backradiation exist?

 

[jc456]

jc, quit being such a pathetic asskisser. And stop calling for civility, being that makes you look like a hypocrite. If you want civility, there's an easy way to get it. Start acting civil. You get back the treatment you give.

Now, since Billy is so reluctant to answer, I'll make it even simpler for him. Billy, answer this simple question with a simple "yes" or "no".

Does backradiation exist?

asskisser? Trying to move something along makes me an asskisser. Wow. I was trying to move the thread along since it was stale with the name calling. Your post wasn't necessary in its context to the subject.

 

[mamooth]

jc, since you claim so badly to want to discuss the science, then do so. Answer the question, without any of your usual deflections.

Does backradiation exist? Yes or no.

 

[mamooth]

If you want Billy to run from a thread at top speed, you simply have to ask him a simple question about the science.

Billy, does backradiation exist? Yes or no.

(I never expected jc to answer that question, as he won't make of move until he can get Billy to tell him how he should answer.)

 

[Billy_Bob]

If you want Billy to run from a thread at top speed, you simply have to ask him a simple question about the science.

Billy, does backradiation exist? Yes or no.

(I never expected jc to answer that question, as he won't make of move until he can get Billy to tell him how he should answer.)

Someone who hasn't a clue about black body radiative process is trying to tell me how it works... Moron...

 

[mamooth]

Billy, stop evading and answer the question.

Does backradiation exist? Yes or no.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Please post attribution as to cause of warming... Most of those I work with agree that the cause is the massive polar low and cooling creating instability in the low and weak magnetic fields allowing the atmosphere to expand. This expansion allows faster cooling at high altitudes and temperature imbalance ie;polar jet size and power increase. The resulting collision with the equatorial jet causes massive swings of warm air to be pulled to the cooling Arctic. Its called the earths paradoxical presentation. This is exactly what the Antarctic did 4 years ago and you see what has resulted in the cooling of the southern hemisphere..

This is only the beginning of the cold phase we have just entered..

Erm, most of those you work with? Fry cooks at Denny's are experts in Global Warming? Really?

Nice ADhom... but you haven't addressed the math or the science...

 

[Billy_Bob]

Billy, stop evading and answer the question.

Does backradiation exist? Yes or no.

Your version of it? Or the scientific version of blackbody emittence?

 

[orogenicman]

Please post attribution as to cause of warming... Most of those I work with agree that the cause is the massive polar low and cooling creating instability in the low and weak magnetic fields allowing the atmosphere to expand. This expansion allows faster cooling at high altitudes and temperature imbalance ie;polar jet size and power increase. The resulting collision with the equatorial jet causes massive swings of warm air to be pulled to the cooling Arctic. Its called the earths paradoxical presentation. This is exactly what the Antarctic did 4 years ago and you see what has resulted in the cooling of the southern hemisphere..

This is only the beginning of the cold phase we have just entered..

Erm, most of those you work with? Fry cooks at Denny's are experts in Global Warming? Really?

Nice ADhom... but you haven't addressed the math or the science...

What makes you think they need addressing? If you believe they are flawed, why haven't you addressed them?

 

[mamooth]

Your version of it? Or the scientific version of blackbody emittence?

The scientific version, which has always been exactly the same as my version

All matter emits IR radiation. Therefore, the atmosphere emits such radiation. Therefore, a good deal of that IR radiation returns to the earth's surface and is called "backradiation".

Now, according to you, does that backradiation exist? Yes or no.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Your version of it? Or the scientific version of blackbody emittence?

The scientific version, which has always been exactly the same as my version

All matter emits IR radiation. Therefore, the atmosphere emits such radiation. Therefore, a good deal of that IR radiation returns to the earth's surface and is called "backradiation".

Now, according to you, does that backradiation exist? Yes or no.

Less than 30% of re-emitted radiation impacts the earths surface. Of that only 1.5% is actually absorbed as the matter it strikes does not absorb in that wavelength. The Oceans do not absorb any of it due to its properties. Backradaiton is a figment of alarmist imagination..

 

[mamooth]

Less than 30% of re-emitted radiation impacts the earths surface. Of that only 1.5% is actually absorbed as the matter it strikes does not absorb in that wavelength. The Oceans do not absorb any of it due to its properties.

So, you're crazily violating conservation of energy. According to you, the energy of the backradiation hits the earth or oceans, and then simply vanishes into Billy's mystery dimension.

Backradaiton is a figment of alarmist imagination..

Your cult pseudoscience is profoundly stupid. It's not even worth laughing at.

Why do you keep bothering the grownups? A dim sixth grader is better at science than you. Even the other deniers are embarrassed by how stupid you are.