food for starving children is being used to feed turtles....

[Two Thumbs]

I don't know what preemptive rights are

but if they never owned the land, they couldn't pass it on to him, he needs to pony the fuck up.

sucks, but that's how property rights work, you have to own it to call it yours and use it for whatever.

His Mormon ancestors had tilled the unforgiving soil since 1887, long before the 1934 Taylor Grazing Act allowed the federal government to seize control

did they own the land?

If they did, and they passed it on to him, he's in the clear, if not, he's a criminal.

 

[Moonglow]

why not let the starving kids graze the land??

 

[WinterBorn]

why not let the starving kids graze the land??

Sure! That is a great plan.

I truly do despise the sensationalistic nonsense that some people add to an argument. The "starving children" bit in the OP is a classic example. It has nothing to do with the actual facts of the story, it is added only to try and make one side appear to be helping save the children, and is nothing more than emotional grandstanding.

If there are starving children in the US, Cliven Bundy's beef is not headed to feed them.

 

[tinydancer]

I'm betting they are going after this man and his cattle to put up more solar energy plants.

The Obama administration agrees. The U.S. Department of Interior has fast-tracked approval of 26 large-scale solar plants on public lands since 2009, including Ivanpah and nine that it cleared in August. Dozens more could rise across the American desert under a just-released Interior plan that allocates 285,000 public acres to 17 solar zones.

Where Tortoises and Solar Power Don't Mix - Businessweek

 

[tinydancer]

And if this situation is truly "just about the tortoise" why are they letting Ivanpah and other solar projects endanger the tortoise?

Hypocrisy thy name is liberal green energy fanatic.

California, uprooting scores of desert tortoises from their burrows, far more than federal wildlife officials had estimated.

The site is prime habitat for gopherus agassizii, the state reptile of California and Nevada. There were once millions of them, but now no more than 100,000 live in their native habitat in the U.S. and Mexico. Both Ivanpah and the tortoise ought to qualify as green icons. The problem is that they can’t coexist.

This inconvenient truth led the Idaho-based Western Watersheds Project, a public lands watchdog, to go to court last year to stop Ivanpah.

It’s now one of a slew of pending lawsuits filed by conservation and Native American groups to halt a half-dozen industrial-scale solar plants planned for public lands in the Mojave.

Where Tortoises and Solar Power Don't Mix - Businessweek

 

[tinydancer]

Now this part highlighted in red is very disturbing. But hey, with this gung ho administration why not trample first amendment rights.

Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval weighed in with a statement Tuesday scolding the Bureau of Land Management:

“Due to the roundup by the BLM, my office has received numerous complaints of BLM misconduct, road closures and other disturbances. I have recently met with state legislators, county officials and concerned citizens to listen to their concerns. I have expressed those concerns directly to the BLM,” Sandoval said.

“Most disturbing to me is the BLM’s establishment of a ‘First Amendment Area’ that tramples upon Nevadans’ fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution.

To that end, I have advised the BLM that such conduct is offensive to me and countless others and that the ‘First Amendment Area’ should be dismantled immediately. No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans. The BLM needs to reconsider its approach to this matter and act accordingly.”

Defiant Nevada rancher faces armed federal agents in escalating confiscation standoff - BizPac Review

 

[nodoginnafight]

I'll agree with Tiny Dancer on one point.
There is no such thing as a "First Amendment Area."
The United States of America is a "First Amendment Area."

But this rancher is nothing but a free-loader and last in a long line of generational welfare recipients.
Pay up or get out.

 

[Katzndogz]

Is it his land? I thought it was federal land that he paid to use to graze his cattle.

In fact, I am pretty sure that this is public land that he is treating as if it were his private property.

could be, haven't had all my coffee yet

His Mormon ancestors had tilled the unforgiving soil since 1887, long before the 1934 Taylor Grazing Act allowed the federal government to seize control,


nope, they took his families land, then charged them to use it.

He paid to use it too. He paid for years, then to get him off, the feds raised the grazing fees so high he couldn't afford to pay it.

No one believes that the cows are eating the forage needed by turtles. The turtles have been sharing that land with cows for 140 years. Now, coincidentally, when the government wants to punish the landowner it has become some kind of problem.

This is a tyranny, pure and simple.

 

[WinterBorn]

could be, haven't had all my coffee yet

His Mormon ancestors had tilled the unforgiving soil since 1887, long before the 1934 Taylor Grazing Act allowed the federal government to seize control,


nope, they took his families land, then charged them to use it.

He paid to use it too. He paid for years, then to get him off, the feds raised the grazing fees so high he couldn't afford to pay it.

No one believes that the cows are eating the forage needed by turtles. The turtles have been sharing that land with cows for 140 years. Now, coincidentally, when the government wants to punish the landowner it has become some kind of problem.

This is a tyranny, pure and simple.

Is there any sort of guarantee that the public lands will always be available for grazing cattle in a commercial operation?

I can find nothing that says his family ever owned the land in question. Even Bundy says it is public land.

And he has run a commercial cattle feeding operation, on public land, for 21 years without paying a dime. He is just pissed because the gravy train has stopped and he will have to pay to feed his cattle like every other rancher in this country.

 

[tinydancer]

What gets me in this is the timing.

They are letting all these solar plants into pristine desert areas because green energy trumps the environment.

But allowing cattle on this land and claiming his cattle are going to cause the "end" of this desert tortoise is complete and utter bullshit.

Spending millions of dollars for this Federal mission to save the tortoise?

Nah, they have a solar plant planned. Dollars to donuts this is why we have this standoff happening now.

 

[WinterBorn]

What gets me in this is the timing.

They are letting all these solar plants into pristine desert areas because green energy trumps the environment.

But allowing cattle on this land and claiming his cattle are going to cause the "end" of this desert tortoise is complete and utter bullshit.

Spending millions of dollars for this Federal mission to save the tortoise?

Nah, they have a solar plant planned. Dollars to donuts this is why we have this standoff happening now.

Since this is public land, why is it a travesty that the land be used to benefit the public?

It sure beats allowing one deadbeat rancher to use our land to feed his commercial cattle operation for free.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Even Bundy admits he owes $300,000. The Feds say it's more like a million, but Bundy admits it's not his land, admits he owes money, but maintains he has a right to soak the taxpayers to subsidize his commercial venture.

Seriously?

They've been free-loading for 127 years AND he has 14 children. Can you believe that - he can't afford to feed his cows without taxpayers' contribution, but he can afford to keep cranking out kids he can't afford? More deadbeats for the rest of us to subsidize?

This welfare cowboy AND his cows should be castrated.

 

[natstew]

eat the turtles....

I have eaten soft shell turtles, Green striped turtles, alligator turtles, loggerhead turtles, and snapping turtles. The soft shelled turtles (cooters) are the best.

Salt, pepper, flour, braize, add onnions, green pepper, celery, cover with water and simmer for two to four hours, or until meat is tender. Spoon over rice and get ready for your tongue to slap your brains out!

Same number of cattle have been grazing on that land for almost two hundred years and all of a sudden the worthless turtle is in danger of starving? Bullshit, they grazed with the buffalo, the deer, and the antelope for thousands of years before the cows were grazing there. This is nothing less than another land grab by the Libtard EPA.

 

[WinterBorn]

eat the turtles....

I have eaten soft shell turtles, Green striped turtles, alligator turtles, loggerhead turtles, and snapping turtles. The soft shelled turtles (cooters) are the best.

Salt, pepper, flour, braize, add onnions, green pepper, celery, cover with water and simmer for two to four hours, or until meat is tender. Spoon over rice and get ready for your tongue to slap your brains out!

Same number of cattle have been grazing on that land for almost two hundred years and all of a sudden the worthless turtle is in danger of starving? Bullshit, they grazed with the buffalo, the deer, and the antelope for thousands of years before the cows were grazing there. This is nothing less than another land grab by the Libtard EPA.

How can it be a land grab when the gov't already owned the land?

And it has been 21 years since Bundy paid grazing fees. It has been 16 years since a federal judge ruled that Bundy must stop grazing his cattle on public lands.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I'll agree with Tiny Dancer on one point.
There is no such thing as a "First Amendment Area."
The United States of America is a "First Amendment Area."

But this rancher is nothing but a free-loader and last in a long line of generational welfare recipients.
Pay up or get out.

you're confusing welfare with not paying all your taxes.

welfare takers remove money from our money bucket
he's not putting all the money he's supposed to in the bucket

he's a criminal, not a free loader, unless you are saying those on welfare are thieves.

 

[WinterBorn]

I'll agree with Tiny Dancer on one point.
There is no such thing as a "First Amendment Area."
The United States of America is a "First Amendment Area."

But this rancher is nothing but a free-loader and last in a long line of generational welfare recipients.
Pay up or get out.

you're confusing welfare with not paying all your taxes.

welfare takers remove money from our money bucket
he's not putting all the money he's supposed to in the bucket

he's a criminal, not a free loader, unless you are saying those on welfare are thieves.

Those on welfare are receiving authorized funds.

Bundy is making money off of beef fed on public lands.

 

[healthmyths]

If Bundy comes up with or some benefactor pays the million... would Bundy still be able to use the land?
NO because the money is not the issue!
His ancestors settled in Southwestern Nevada in the 1880s when only Native Americans were living in the area. They have been living in the region since before the city of Las Vegas was founded in 1905.
A federal judge ordered Bundy’s cattle impounded because he hadn’t paid $300,000 in BLM grazing fees.
Bundy says he paid fees to the county in an arrangement that existed prior to the BLM coming on the scene.

“Grazing has long benefited tortoise populations by churning seeds into soils, keeping predators at a distance and limiting the vegetation overgrowth that feeds wildfires … The environmentalist toadies at the Center for Biological Diversity don’t like ranching and grazing,” the Review Journal charged. “They believe a few hundred cattle will destroy hundreds of thousands of acres of desert. They want the BLM use force to remove Mr. Bundy’s cattle. The roundup will disturb plenty of tortoise habitat, at great public expense, but no matter. BLM officials have spent years in the courts making sure Mr. Bundy has no legal recourse to stop them this time.”
The newspaper suggested the federal government release the land to local control.
The modern day range war hasn’t led to violence yet but the Review Journal had a grim prediction.
“There is great potential for violence,” the editorial noted. “It shouldn’t come to that. We hope it doesn’t.”

Feds Force Family Off 120-Year-Old Ranch To Protect Tortoise | Off The Grid News

 

[JakeStarkey]

hm now thinks children eat turtle food.

 

[KissMy]

The Feds have mismanaged the land causing Global Warming and Desertification. The cattle are the cure.

Reverse Global Warming and Desertification with Livestock
[youtube]vpTHi7O66pI[/youtube]