For those that may prefer a Socialist country

[struth]

haha homes require material and labor to build…money.

Yeah? We have millions of vacant homes and apartments in this country. We could very easily house everyone. If society determines that it wants its government to recognize everyone's right to, at least, basic housing, and to provide housing to everyone who needs it, then that's what would happen. If you already have a home, then even though you have a right to housing, you don't have to move into that housing. You just keep the home you already have. In a socialist society, no one would be homeless.

Homelessness is more costly for society than simply housing everyone who needs housing.

Rights are not something govt provides its people.

The people who create the government to enforce contracts and protect rights, are the ones who determine what everyone's rights are. In our society, we have rights, and those rights are determined by the people who live in this society. It's that simple, but unfortunately, you just don't get it.

Socialist govts can take away housing, food etc from their people and have and do..

It wouldn't be a socialist government if it did that, it would be a capitalist-run government hehehehe. Don't pay your property taxes this year and you'll find out quickly who actually owns your home. They'll kick you out of "your house". Any government can abuse its power, be it socialist or run by capitalists. So your point is moot. The fact is that, in socialism, people have the right to food, housing, healthcare, education, and employment. You're less likely to lose your house in a socialist society, that in a capitalist one, where you need to pay a landlord, a bank, or even the government money, to stay in your home. That doesn't happen in socialism.

A right is not something govt provides you

that’s your problem

 

[Red Front]

A right is not something govt provides you

that’s your problem

You continue to say "Government doesn't", but that's a straw man. I'm not saying "government" gives me rights, but rather the community that created the government. Human beings form a community and a government to enforce contracts, laws and protect people's rights.

Do you have a right to own property in our country? Who gave you that right? The community. The government protects your right to use that land or home. If someone shows up with their friends, armed with machine guns, that doesn't give them the right to take your home away from you. You can call the government (the police) and they will send a SWAT team to protect your right to remain in that home. The thugs with the machine guns would get arrested or killed.

The community determines what the rights of its members are, and the government protects our rights.

 

[struth]

You continue to say "Government doesn't", but that's a straw man. I'm not saying "government" gives me rights, but rather the community that created the government. Human beings form a community and a government to enforce contracts, laws and protect people's rights.

Do you have a right to own property in our country? Who gave you that right? The community. The government protects your right to use that land or home. If someone shows up with their friends, armed with machine guns, that doesn't give them the right to take your home away from you. You can call the government (the police) and they will send a SWAT team to protect your right to remain in that home. The thugs with the machine guns would get arrested or killed.

The community determines what the rights of its members are, and the government protects our rights.

your rights don't come from other people either. If your community wants to make sure the homeless have shelter that's a great thing, mine has.....we have homeless shelters, numerous people, including myself donate my time, and money to help feed them etc.

That's not socialism.

That's actually a product of capitalism.

 

[Red Front]

your rights don't come from other people either. If your community wants to make sure the homeless have shelter that's a great thing, mine has.....we have homeless shelters, numerous people, including myself donate my time, and money to help feed them etc.

That's not socialism.

That's actually a product of capitalism.

Society determines whether its members have a right to housing or not.

Homeless shelters aren't housing, and that's why so many homeless people refuse to sleep in one. I work with the homeless and I know how dismal conditions are in those shelters. People are packed like sardines in a room, where you're getting coughed on by people with TB and there's noise, violence, drugs, bedbugs, and cockroaches. You can hardly get a good night's sleep in a shelter, undermining a person's ability to get back on their feet. Most people would rather sleep outside, than in a homeless shelter and that's one of the reasons we have so many homeless people.

The most cost-effective solution to homelessness is to simply house them in their own studio apartments (efficiencies). Families would be housed in one or two-bedroom apartment units. There they could receive the services that they need to get their lives back in order.

If society doesn't determine what the rights of its members are, then who or what does?

 

[struth]

Society determines whether its members have a right to housing or not.

Homeless shelters aren't housing, and that's why so many homeless people refuse to sleep in one. I work with the homeless and I know how dismal conditions are in those shelters. People are packed like sardines in a room, where you're getting coughed on by people with TB and there's noise, violence, drugs, bedbugs, and cockroaches. You can hardly get a good night's sleep in a shelter, undermining a person's ability to get back on their feet. Most people would rather sleep outside, than in a shelter and that's one of the reasons we have so many homeless people.

The most cost-effective solution to homelessness is to simply house them in their own studio apartments or apartments. There they could receive the services that they need to get their lives back in order.

Is society doesn't determine what the rights of its members are, then who or what does?

We have a right to housing in this country....a right however is not something that others provide you.

hahah of course a homeless shelter is housing...without it many would be on the street. I know many homless people that sleep in them.....if someone doesn't want to take advantage of free housing...then that's on them. They have the right to be homeless.....just as much as they have a right to go get housing.

As far as studio apartments, sure....my community often helps people, and even puts them in temporay housing as well....again that's not socialism.

You confuse a right, with a privledge....a right is not something that's provided for you....if it's provided for you it can be taken away...your right to housing can't be taken away in this country...you have an absolute right to go get it.

 

[Red Front]

We have a right to housing in this country....a right however is not something that others provide you.

hahah of course a homeless shelter is housing...without it many would be on the street. I know many homless people that sleep in them.....if someone doesn't want to take advantage of free housing...then that's on them. They have the right to be homeless.....just as much as they have a right to go get housing.

As far as studio apartments, sure....my community often helps people, and even puts them in temporay housing as well....again that's not socialism.

You confuse a right, with a privledge....a right is not something that's provided for you....if it's provided for you it can be taken away...your right to housing can't be taken away in this country...you have an absolute right to go get it.

We have a right to housing in this country....a right however is not something that others provide you.

So who or what provides you with your rights in our country?

hahah of course a homeless shelter is housing...without it many would be on the street. I know many homless people that sleep in them.....if someone doesn't want to take advantage of free housing...then that's on them.

According to you and some of the homeless that sign for a bed in a homeless shelter, that's housing. But for most rational, reasonable people, a shelter isn't "housing".

They have the right to be homeless.....just as much as they have a right to go get housing.

Who or what determines that they have a right to be homeless and to get housing? Who or what determines what constitutes housing? If a person is homeless, they need to eat, sleep, urinate and defecate. Can they satisfy their human needs, in front of your home, on the sidewalk? Can they urinate and defecate on the public sidewalk, in front of your home or business? Can they pitch a tent in the public park in front of your home or business and fill the place with infected needles, use drugs, and piss and shit everywhere? Is that your idea of a civilized society? Who or what gives us our rights?

As far as studio apartments, sure....my community often helps people, and even puts them in temporay housing as well....again that's not socialism.

It's a course of action or policy that socialists would apply. If you don't wan't to call that "socialism", that's fine. That's what socialists would do, because in socialism, housing is a right, that has to be satisfied, and homelessness (people sleeping out in the street or in public parks, because they don't have a home) is illegal. We don't allow homelessness in socialist societies. Everyone has their own place to live.

You confuse a right, with a privledge....a right is not something that's provided for you....if it's provided for you it can be taken away...your right to housing can't be taken away in this country...you have an absolute right to go get it.

If a person is homeless, they don't have the resources to "go get it", hence they're out in the street. Society determines what our rights or "privileges" are and yes, just as a community can create and grant rights and privileges, it can take them away. But since most people in society have a personal interest in the community protecting their rights, they're unlikely to support the violation of other people's rights and legitimate privileges. In a democracy the majority rule and determine what the laws of the land are, including what everyone's rights and legitimate privileges are.

Now answer the question. Where do you get your rights from, if not from the community?

 

[struth]

We have a right to housing in this country....a right however is not something that others provide you.

So who or what provides you with your rights in our country?

hahah of course a homeless shelter is housing...without it many would be on the street. I know many homless people that sleep in them.....if someone doesn't want to take advantage of free housing...then that's on them.

According to you and some of the homeless that sign for a bed in a homeless shelter, that's housing. But for most rational, reasonable people, a shelter isn't "housing".

They have the right to be homeless.....just as much as they have a right to go get housing.

Who or what determines that they have a right to be homeless and to get housing? Who or what determines what constitutes housing? If a person is homeless, they need to eat, sleep, urinate and defecate. Can they satisfy their human needs, in front of your home, on the sidewalk? Can they urinate and defecate on the public sidewalk, in front of your home or business? Can they pitch a tent in the public park in front of your home or business and fill the place with infected needles, use drugs, and piss and shit everywhere? Is that your idea of a civilized society? Who or what gives us our rights?

As far as studio apartments, sure....my community often helps people, and even puts them in temporay housing as well....again that's not socialism.

It's a course of action or policy that socialists would apply. If you don't wan't to call that "socialism", that's fine. That's what socialists would do, because in socialism, housing is a right, that has to be satisfied, and homelessness (people sleeping out in the street or in public parks, because they don't have a home) is illegal. We don't allow homelessness in socialist societies. Everyone has their own place to live.

You confuse a right, with a privledge....a right is not something that's provided for you....if it's provided for you it can be taken away...your right to housing can't be taken away in this country...you have an absolute right to go get it.

If a person is homeless, they don't have the resources to "go get it", hence they're out in the street. Society determines what our rights or "privileges" are and yes, just as a community can create and grant rights and privileges, it can take them away. But since most people in society have a personal interest in the community protecting their rights, they're unlikely to support the violation of other people's rights and legitimate privileges. In a democracy the majority rule and determine what the laws of the land are, including what everyone's rights and legitimate privileges are.

Now answer the question. Where do you get your rights from, if not from the community?

nobody provides us with our rights...they are ours...individually.....I have a right to a home, doesn't mean that the Govt provides it...I have a right to bear arms, doesnt mean someone provides me with it.

 

[Red Front]

nobody provides us with our rights...they are ours...individually.....I have a right to a home, doesn't mean that the Govt provides it...I have a right to bear arms, doesnt mean someone provides me with it.

Really? Who or what determined what your rights are? You're not making any sense.

 

[struth]

Really? Who or what determined what your rights are? You're not making any sense.

what doesn't make sense? A right is something that legally can't be denied, such as your right to go get a home.....a privledge is something that can be denied legally....so when Govt is providing you with a home, they can take that home away from you.....that's your socialist utopia.

In our society, you have the right to go get that home....Govt didn't provide you that right, and they can't legally deny you that. We believe that rights are given to us at birth, it's part of what makes humans free

 

[Red Front]

what doesn't make sense? A right is something that legally can't be denied, such as your right to go get a home.....a privledge is something that can be denied legally....so when Govt is providing you with a home, they can take that home away from you.....that's your socialist utopia.

In our society, you have the right to go get that home....Govt didn't provide you that right, and they can't legally deny you that. We believe that rights are given to us at birth, it's part of what makes humans free

"WE BELIEVE" that people are born with rights. OK so the "WE" there is the community and that's why people have rights. It's that simple. WE believe that people are born with the right to be housed and not be homeless. Being housed for socialists isn't a homeless shelter, but actual housing. Capitalism is a destructive dystopia, and socialism is scientific and better, not perfect or utopian. Dissengeious capitalist apologists claim socialists want to create a perfect society, but no we don't. We just want a better society than what we have now. Better, not perfect. Humans will never be absolutely perfect.

WE socialists believe that the government is simply an administrative, management tool, allowing us to organize and manage our large-scale projects and civil affairs. Government In collaboration with worker-run factories and productive enterprises organize production, including the construction of housing. In a socialist society, the construction of housing can be planned and executed in several ways, meeting the housing needs of everyone in society.

A modern, high-tech socialist society can be very generous and grant its members many different options for housing. Some people might opt to live on a small plot of land, in a house, with a garden. Others might opt to live in a condo, with a boat slip. Others might be less picky and are satisfied with an apartment in a major city, with quick access to all of the resources and benefits a large urban environment provides. In a modern, high-tech socialist society, people would have a right to food, housing, healthcare, an education, and employment, in the sense that they don't have to pay for it, as they do under capitalism.

 

[struth]

"WE BELIEVE" that people are born with rights. OK so the "WE" there is the community and that's why people have rights. It's that simple. WE believe that people are born with the right to be housed and not be homeless. Being housed for socialists isn't a homeless shelter, but actual housing. Capitalism is a destructive dystopia, and socialism is scientific and better, not perfect or utopian. Dissengeious capitalist apologists claim socialists want to create a perfect society, but no we don't. We just want a better society than what we have now. Better, not perfect. Humans will never be absolutely perfect.

WE socialists believe that the government is simply an administrative, management tool, allowing us to organize and manage our large-scale projects and civil affairs. Government In collaboration with worker-run factories and productive enterprises organize production, including the construction of housing. In a socialist society, the construction of housing can be planned and executed in several ways, meeting the housing needs of everyone in society.

A modern, high-tech socialist society can be very generous and grant its members many different options for housing. Some people might opt to live on a small plot of land, in a house, with a garden. Others might opt to live in a condo, with a boat slip. Others might be less picky and are satisfied with an apartment in a major city, with quick access to all of the resources and benefits a large urban environment provides. In a modern, high-tech socialist society, people would have a right to food, housing, healthcare, an education, and employment, in the sense that they don't have to pay for it, as they do under capitalism.

people have a right to be homeless. your community can build homes and volunteer to house the homeless go for it

that’s very much what capitalism supports

socialism is a form of govt….when you start sayijng it has to provide homes for people it can also take them away…that’s the difference between a right and a privledge

 

[Red Front]

people have a right to be homeless. your community can build homes and volunteer to house the homeless go for it

that’s very much what capitalism supports

socialism is a form of govt….when you start sayijng it has to provide homes for people it can also take them away…that’s the difference between a right and a privledge

Under a capitalist-run government and economy, it can also take it away, so you're not making any sense.

The only reason no one can legally take away your home is thanks to the government enforcing the law. Without a government, you wouldn't have the official documents to prove the property is yours and not mine. We need the government to protect our rights and enforce the law. Under a capitalist system, you have to pay taxes and follow zoning laws and other rules, if not the government will take your home. So again, you're not making any sense.

 

[struth]

Under a capitalist-run government and economy, it can also take it away, so you're not making any sense.

The only reason no one can legally take away your home is thanks to the government enforcing the law. Without a government, you wouldn't have the official documents to prove the property is yours and not mine. We need the government to protect our rights and enforce the law. Under a capitalist system, you have to pay taxes and follow zoning laws and other rules, if not the government will take your home. So again, you're not making any sense.

no they can’t take away your right to shelter

the bottom line is as a social tt you don’t believe you are born free…that’s what socialism is all about. You belong to the state

 

[Red Front]

no they can’t take away your right to shelter

the bottom line is as a social tt you don’t believe you are born free…that’s what socialism is all about. You belong to the state

There are certain municipalities that recognize a person's right to emergency shelter in a publicly run homeless shelter, but most cities in this country don't have city-run emergency shelters. In a socialist society, you have the right to actual housing, and the government under the authority of the public, provides you with housing. It's more cost-effective to house the homeless than to pack them like wild animals in shelters or abandon them out in the street.

What is a social "tt"?

What do you mean by "born free"? You were born under the authority of your parents and the society you were born into. Under capitalism most people are wage slaves, renting their lives to a capitalist master, for eight, ten, or even sixteen hours daily (tens of millions of Americans work two full-time jobs). Most Americans spend most of their waking hours in a workplace run by a totalitarian system, so again, like always, you're not making any sense.

 

[struth]

There are certain municipalities that recognize a person's right to emergency shelter in a publicly run homeless shelter, but most cities in this country don't have city-run emergency shelters. In a socialist society, you have the right to actual housing, and the government under the authority of the public, provides you with housing. It's more cost-effective to house the homeless than to pack them like wild animals in shelters or abandon them out in the street.

What is a social "tt"?

What do you mean by "born free"? You were born under the authority of your parents and the society you were born into. Under capitalism most people are wage slaves, renting their lives to a capitalist master, for eight, ten, or even sixteen hours daily (tens of millions of Americans work two full-time jobs). Most Americans spend most of their waking hours in a workplace run by a totalitarian system, so again, like always, you're not making any sense.

you don’t have a right…what your talking about is a privilege. Because it can be taken away by the govt.

you think it’s a right because you don’t believe you were born free and are dependent on your govt.

in socialist societies you have no rights, you aren’t free…you can’t even own your own labor

 

[Red Front]

you don’t have a right…what your talking about is a privilege. Because it can be taken away by the govt.

you think it’s a right because you don’t believe you were born free and are dependent on your govt.

in socialist societies you have no rights, you aren’t free…you can’t even own your own labor

So you believe that human beings are born with "rights", independently of any human sentiment, belief. etc? What is the source of your rights, that supposedly can't be taken away from the community or its government? On what or whose authority do you have any rights?

No one is born free, everyone is born dependent on someone else, whether it's one's parents or a society. Freedom means different things to different people. It's a very vague and subjective term.

All human beings receive their rights from a community comprised of human beings. Humans create rights, it doesn't grow on trees or come down from the clouds. Under capitalism, your employer owns your labor and what it produces. So you're quite confused.

 

[struth]

So you believe that human beings are born with "rights", independently of any human sentiment, belief. etc? What is the source of your rights, that supposedly can't be taken away from the community or its government? On what or whose authority do you have any rights?

No one is born free, everyone is born dependent on someone else, whether it's one's parents or a society. Freedom means different things to different people. It's a very vague and subjective term.

All human beings receive their rights from a community comprised of human beings. Humans create rights, it doesn't grow on trees or come down from the clouds. Under capitalism, your employer owns your labor and what it produces. So you're quite confused.

yes they are born free. Rights don’t come from govt

 

[Red Front]

yes they are born free. Rights don’t come from govt

If our rights don't come from a human community, then from where do our rights come from? What is the source of your rights? Here, I'll ask you again. What is the source of these rights that you were supposedly born with?

 

[struth]

If our rights don't come from a human community, then from where do our rights come from? What is the source of your rights? Here, I'll ask you again. What is the source of these rights that you were supposedly born with?

to…the individual you are born with them

got freedom doesnkr come from govt

actually that’s not freedom at all

 

[Red Front]

to…the individual you are born with them

got freedom doesnkr come from govt

actually that’s not freedom at all

Were you born holding a piece of paper in your tiny baby hand, listing all of the "rights" you were born with? How did you learn about all of these rights that you were supposedly born with? What are these rights that you are born with, independent of a community? Where are they written? On a mountain in the clouds somewhere?