Forgiveness

[Sky Dancer]

I have forgiven many situations and people. I have this one, biggee to go.

 

[Si modo]

I started the thread because I just came back from a retreat whose theme was gratitude and forgiveness.I'm interested in the topic for many reasons. I have done a fair amount of inner work on trauma healing, but I have this one glitchy place I'm still working on. It's fairly complex.

What made the most sense to me this weekend was the idea that if you aren't yet able to fully forgive someone, then it means you have places inside that still need attending to. Only I can do the attending, I don't expect anything from others.

I started the thread because this is a juicy topic, IMO.

I don't reject anyone's story about what works for them. That doesn't mean that if I don't do what someone else does I don't have the motivation to heal myself. I sense what will work for me is what I learned about this weekend.

It just takes time. It requires patience. I started this thread because I care about the topic, and it's something I haven't mastered myself.

You often choose a harsh interpretation of whatever I post. I'm "stuck on feeling bad", "no different than a drunk", "addictive". It seems like you want to pick fights. You use fighting words.

I don't want to fight with you. One of the skills I'm working on developing is walking away from people who provoke fights. I'm learning to disengage instead of joining.

"Fighting words".

What I find rather fascinating is the quality that some posters have at having little insight.

I do know that I provoke you. Some take challenges to their views as wanting to have a fight. It's an interesting insight into that individual, to say the least.

But, I also find that solutions to personal problems are simple much more often than they aren't. From the standpoint of an outsider to your life, I am telling you my impression of your issue. I have little doubt that you feel hurt by whatever this person did to you. When you are sick and tired of feeling hurt you will stop feeling hurt.

Forgive me (or not) for saying so, but a reasonable conclusion is that you want to feel hurt. I know I would examine why I would choose to stay in a spot where I feel bad.

Then again, I don't particularly like feeling bad.

No, it's not true that I want to feel hurt. It's true that I still feel hurt about some things, and I'm working on taking care of all the places inside that are unwilling to forgive.

You don't know me, or my life. You don't know why the forgiveness in this one case is complicated.

As you say, you are an outsider looking in. Very easy to judge someone. Very hard to do the work I'm doing that you know nothing about. All you do is spin everything I say in the worst way, because you like to provoke and fight.

What I'm learning to do, is not return it.

I understand why you would reject the conclusion that you want to feel hurt.

However, when someone knows the tool to use to fix something, and knows how to use that tool to fix something, it seems reasonable to conclude that they don't want the something to be fixed.

I know I would give that serious consideration. I'm telling you what I would do. I'm also telling you that I prefer not to feel bad.

It's pretty hard for me to spin what I would do. I have a pretty good idea about that topic.

 

[syrenn]

I don't own a baseball bat. I wouldn't use one to harm myself or anyone else.

I didn't say I am better than people who pile on TM. I don't like pile ons and won't participate in a TM one. If you consider that a "holier than thou" statement, so be it. I don't.

Shall we ask FF if you participated in a pile on?

Ask her what you like. I don't like her flame bait threads and I criticise them. She is a snob, big time.

What are you doing here, Syrenn. Trying to help me and FF be friends? I don't think so.

Pointing out that you do participate in pile one...... of which you just claimed you don't.

You also participate in pile on's passive aggressively. If someone says something vile that you would not dare to say yourself..... your thank you is usually always there.

 

[Sky Dancer]

In one way, what your saying is true, Si. It's true there are some places inside of me that are NOT willing to let go.

Instead of criticising, I have to find out what these places still need from me before they are willing to let go.

What you would do, is what you would do.

I have my own process. If you'd prefer I stop talking about it, I will.

 

[Si modo]

TM interacts with each of us. We interact with her. If she interacts with more then one person and more then one person responds...that is not a pile on. That is everyone saying the same damn thing to her...that she is a crazy damn hack loon.

TM gets what she gives out. She calls everyone a liar, they call her a liar back. It rather simple.

Thread after thread after thread in the Flame Zone. It's a pile on.

Then she should learn something dont you think?

Learning capacity is a measure of intelligence, so ..............

 

[syrenn]

Thread after thread after thread in the Flame Zone. It's a pile on.

Then she should learn something dont you think?

Learning capacity is a measure of intelligence, so ..............

 

[Sky Dancer]

Shall we ask FF if you participated in a pile on?

Ask her what you like. I don't like her flame bait threads and I criticise them. She is a snob, big time.

What are you doing here, Syrenn. Trying to help me and FF be friends? I don't think so.

Pointing out that you do participate in pile one...... of which you just claimed you don't.

You also participate in pile on's passive aggressively. If someone says something vile that you would not dare to say yourself..... your thank you is usually always there.

Did I say I was free of flaws? No.

I don't like pile ons. When I see someone unfairly picked on I will speak up about it.

You are free to point out when you think I'm unfairly picking on someone. You LOVE to do that. What's it do for you?

 

[Si modo]

In one way, what your saying is true, Si. It's true there are some places inside of me that are NOT willing to let go.

Instead of criticising, I have to find out what these places still need from me before they are willing to let go.

What you would do, is what you would do.

I have my own process. ....

So, what do you get out of it, Sky? What is the payoff for you in hanging onto that hurt?

You don't have to answer, of course. I hope they are useful questions. If I couldn't find an answer if I asked myself that, I would make a choice.

And, if you have your own process - which is fine, of course - the purpose of this thread is still a mystery to me.

.... If you'd prefer I stop talking about it, I will.

Anyway, , I see you've fallen back into your comfort zone of being victimized.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Thread after thread after thread in the Flame Zone. It's a pile on.

Then she should learn something dont you think?

Learning capacity is a measure of intelligence, so ..............

Since Syrenn thanked you, should I take that as her passive aggressiveness toward TM?

 

[Si modo]

Then she should learn something dont you think?

Learning capacity is a measure of intelligence, so ..............

Since Syrenn thanked you, should I take that as her passive aggressiveness toward TM?

No. Syrenn has been completely transparent and direct in what she thinks of TM. So have I.

 

[Sky Dancer]

In one way, what your saying is true, Si. It's true there are some places inside of me that are NOT willing to let go.

Instead of criticising, I have to find out what these places still need from me before they are willing to let go.

What you would do, is what you would do.

I have my own process. ....

So, what do you get out of it, Sky? What is the payoff for you in hanging onto that hurt?

You don't have to answer, of course. I hope they are useful questions. If I couldn't find an answer if I asked myself that, I would make a choice.

And, if you have your own process - which is fine, of course - the purpose of this thread is still a mystery to me.

.... If you'd prefer I stop talking about it, I will.

Anyway, , I see you've fallen back into your comfort zone of being victimized.

Do you want to discuss this topic of forgiveness respectfully? It doesn't seem that way.

It's not a question of "payoff" for "hanging on to the hurt". That is so old school psychobabble. It doesn't work that way inside.

You have NO idea what it is that I'm working through or why it's complicated. I suggested it may be better for me to not discuss my process, not because I feel "victimized" by you.

It may not be appropriate, that's all.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Learning capacity is a measure of intelligence, so ..............

Since Syrenn thanked you, should I take that as her passive aggressiveness toward TM?

No. Syrenn has been completely transparent and direct in what she thinks of TM. So have I.

I don't think my criticism of FF is veiled in any way. It's blatantly obvious. Nice little tag team the two of you, though.

 

[Sky Dancer]

As regards this topic, I've decided I will no longer comment on my personal forgiveness process. When I've worked it through, I'll come back and tell you all about it.

 

[Si modo]

Since Syrenn thanked you, should I take that as her passive aggressiveness toward TM?

No. Syrenn has been completely transparent and direct in what she thinks of TM. So have I.

I don't think my criticism of FF is veiled in any way. It's blatantly obvious. Nice little tag team the two of you, though.

*whiplash*

OK. I guess we're talking about Foxfyre now, not TM.



Well, I suppose starting a thread about 'dreaming' about beating Foxfyre to death with a baseball bat is about as direct as you can get to saying you want to do the act itself.

Baby steps.

 

[Si modo]

As regards this topic, I've decided I will no longer comment on my personal forgiveness process. When I've worked it through, I'll come back and tell you all about it.

Awww. Poor, poor Sky.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No. Syrenn has been completely transparent and direct in what she thinks of TM. So have I.

I don't think my criticism of FF is veiled in any way. It's blatantly obvious. Nice little tag team the two of you, though.

*whiplash*

OK. I guess we're talking about Foxfyre now, not TM.



Well, I suppose starting a thread about 'dreaming' about beating Foxfyre to death with a baseball bat is about as direct as you can get to saying you want to do the act itself.

Baby steps.

First of all, I never stated that FF was the subject of the dream. A dream has many meanings and none of them are literal.

I don't like FF's threads and posts. I'm very clear on that, and I challenge her view.

I wouldn't ever hit anyone with a baseball bat. I know EXACTLY what the dream means, and it is NOT related to the forum at all.

 

[Sky Dancer]

As regards this topic, I've decided I will no longer comment on my personal forgiveness process. When I've worked it through, I'll come back and tell you all about it.

Awww. Poor, poor Sky.

Oh, I'm so grateful for your caring, Si.

I'm looking forward to coming back when the forgiveness issue is resolved.

You'll have to hang up your Lucy booth for now.

 

[Si modo]

I don't think my criticism of FF is veiled in any way. It's blatantly obvious. Nice little tag team the two of you, though.

*whiplash*

OK. I guess we're talking about Foxfyre now, not TM.



Well, I suppose starting a thread about 'dreaming' about beating Foxfyre to death with a baseball bat is about as direct as you can get to saying you want to do the act itself.

Baby steps.

First of all, I never stated that FF was the subject of the dream. A dream has many meanings and none of them are literal.

I don't like FF's threads and posts. I'm very clear on that, and I challenge her view.

I wouldn't ever hit anyone with a baseball bat. I know EXACTLY what the dream means, and it is NOT related to the forum at all.

Of course you didn't say Foxfyre was the subject of the dream. That would not be passive enough for your aggression. You only went on and on for days about how FF was holier-than-thou, then you posted your infamous dream about wanting to beat a poster to death with a baseball bat and that poster was 'holier-than-thou'.

I know the dream upset you a lot. It upset you, not because you wanted to murder a poster, but because you were frustrated that you couldn't beat her to death, even though you were trying so hard to do so.

Yes, that is disturbing.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Generally, forgiveness involves radically accepting that the unacceptable happened.

I have heard many people here say that some things are unforgivable. I think certain actions are unforgivable, but the people behind the actions can be forgiven.

They are NOT the action.

 

[Si modo]

As regards this topic, I've decided I will no longer comment on my personal forgiveness process. When I've worked it through, I'll come back and tell you all about it.

Awww. Poor, poor Sky.

Oh, I'm so grateful for your caring, Si.

I'm looking forward to coming back when the forgiveness issue is resolved.

You'll have to hang up your Lucy booth for now.

More reason to question your real motivation behind this thread, Sky.

See, I find it interesting that just a day before you started this thread, you told another poster that you were "done with" her. You were quite mad with that poster and seemed quite hurt with that poster.

Then, this amorphous thread popped up.