Fossil fuel industries have a large quiver full of strategies to lure us away from the truth

[hadit]

Humans, by the combustion of coal and petroleum, have put 1.6 trillion tons of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere and add another 34 billion tonnes each year. Solar panels and battery manufacturers have a VERY long ways to go before catching up with that. If you think the solar panel and battery manufacturers should be punished for their emissions, you must think the fossil fuel indusries deserve mass execution.

That sounds like, "I don't deserve the death penalty because I only killed 15 people while that guy killed 150". The point is that pretending solar panels and batteries are "green" is false.

 

[Crick]

That sounds like, "I don't deserve the death penalty because I only killed 15 people while that guy killed 150". The point is that pretending solar panels and batteries are "green" is false.

Over their lifespan they will supply energy that would have been generated by billions of gallons of fuel. They are green. The GHGs produced during their manufacture are completely trivial. The emphasis on their construction is another pseudo-factoid from the fossil fuel PR people.

 

[hadit]

Over their lifespan they will replace energy that would have been generated by billions of gallons of fuel. They are green. The GHGs produced during their manufacture are completely trivial.

Not so trivial are the massive open pit mines that are needed to provide all the elements needed and the toxic run-off from them. An oil well is a pipe in the ground.

 

[Crick]

Not so trivial are the massive open pit mines that are needed to provide all the elements needed and the toxic run-off from them. An oil well is a pipe in the ground.

Care to guess how many pit mines for coal exist on this planet? Oil shale? And the material getting extracted for batteries can be recycled - it is not consumed and its use does not put GHGs into the atmosphere.

Do you not realize how much you're reaching just to have something negative to say? That's what being a useful idiot is all about.

 

[hadit]

Care to guess how many pit mines for coal exist on this planet? Oil shale?

Those are known quantities and are covered back up when exhausted. Mines for rare earth minerals are new.

And the material getting extracted for batteries can be recycled - it is not consumed and its use does not put GHGs into the atmosphere.

ARE they being recycled, or are they just being dumped into landfills or dropped into the oceans?

Do you not realize how much you're reaching just to have something negative to say? That's what being a useful idiot is all about.

Just pointing out that what is being sold as "green" isn't really all that green.

 

[Crick]

Those are known quantities and are covered back up when exhausted. Mines for rare earth minerals are new.

So, the world has completely stopped burning coal? And if you think every pit mine gets covered back up and that even when they are that the result is ANYTHING like the condition of the undisturbed land, you're dreaming. I presume that rare earth pit mines will be covered back up as often as coal mines and since there will be far, far less of them (since we don't burn burn the mined resources), the impact of generating, transmitting and consuming electricity will be further reduced.

ARE they being recycled, or are they just being dumped into landfills or dropped into the oceans?

Just pointing out that what is being sold as "green" isn't really all that green.

Let me know when you're done playing semantics.

 

[elektra]

Humans, by the combustion of coal and petroleum, have put 1.6 trillion tons of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere and add another 34 billion tonnes each year. Solar panels and battery manufacturers have a VERY long ways to go before catching up with that. If you think the solar panel and battery manufacturers should be punished for their emissions, you must think the fossil fuel indusries deserve mass execution.

Solar pabels and wind turbines burn and conume trillions of lbs if not trillions of tons of natural resources to include fossil fuels.

The Renewable Heavy Industry is the largest polluter in the world. Thee mist inefficient as well

 

[ding]

So, the world has completely stopped burning coal? And if you think every pit mine gets covered back up and that even when they are that the result is ANYTHING like the condition of the undisturbed land, you're dreaming. I presume that rare earth pit mines will be covered back up as often as coal mines and since there will be far, far less of them (since we don't burn burn the mined resources), the impact of generating, transmitting and consuming electricity will be further reduced.

Let me know when you're done playing semantics.

They need to increase lithium mining by 2,000% to replace ICE vehicles. That doesn't include the lithium needed for battery backups for solar and wind. That's probably another 2,000%. Do the fucking math, dumbass.

 

[Crick]

Solar pabels and wind turbines burn and conume trillions of lbs if not trillions of tons of natural resources to include fossil fuels.

The Renewable Heavy Industry is the largest polluter in the world. Thee mist inefficient as well

You are simply lying. You have been for some time now.

 

[elektra]

You are simply lying. You have been for some time now.

Prove it, name one heavy industry producing anything bigger, and in a larger quantity, than the Renewable Heavy Industry producing Wind Turbines and Solar Panels.

 

[Crick]

Prove it, name one heavy industry producing anything bigger, and in a larger quantity, than the Renewable Heavy Industry producing Wind Turbines and Solar Panels.

You stated "Solar pabels(sic) and wind turbines burn and conume(sic) trillions of lbs if not trillions of tons of natural resources to include fossil fuels."

In operation, of course, solar panels consume none and the only petroleum a wind turbine uses during operation would be as a lubricant. Of course, you stated that they consume "natural resources" giving you a lot of leeway. Solar panels and wind turbines are made of various materials of course. But then, so are the turbines and generators and piping required to build a coal, oil or natural gas-fired power plant. But let's talk about the BIG difference. Oil is a natural resource. So is coal and so is natural gas. How much of THAT does a typical power plant use? From the US Energy Information Agency (Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)) we find:

The annual average amounts of coal, natural gas, and petroleum fuels used to generate a kilowatthour (kWh) of electricity by U.S. electric utilities and independent power producers in 2021 were

• Coal–1.12 pounds/kWh
• Natural gas–7.36 cubic feet/kWh
• Petroleum liquids–0.08 gallons/kWh
• Petroleum coke–0.82 pounds/kWh

So, let's take a hypothetical 5 gigawatt (5 million kW) plant. Over the course of a year (8,760 hours) such a plant would use 43,800,000,000 times the hourly rate in the table. So for each of these fuels we get:

49,056,000,000 pounds of coal
322,368,000,000 cubic feet of natural gas
3,504,000,000 gallons of petroleum liquids
35,916,000,000 pounds of petroleum coke

The lives of wind turbines and power plants are roughly the same, so for a span of 25 years, these technologies would consume:

1,226,400,000,000 pounds of coal
8,059,200,000,000 cubic feet of natural gas
87,600,000,000 gallons of petroleum liquids
897,900,000,000 pounds of petroleum coke

But this is only one, 5 GW plant. You said "...largest polluter in the world". So, how much power did the world use in 2021? The EIA says 25,300 TWh. For worldwide resource consumption per your preferred technologies, we need to multiply that last table by a factor of 5,060,000. That gives us:

6,205,584,000,000,000,000 pounds of coal (6 quintillion, 205 quadrillion, 584 trillion pounds of coal)
40,779,552,000,000,000,000 cubic feet of natural gas (40 quintillion, 779 quadrillion, 552 trillion cubic feet of natural gas)
443,256,000,000,000,000 gallons of liquid petroleum (443 quadrillion, 256 trillion gallons of liquid petroleum)
4,543,374,000,000,000,000 pounds of petroleum coke (4 quintillion, 543 quadrillion, 374 trillion pounds of petroleum coke)

So, my calculator says that wind turbines and solar panels are as green as green can be and that you're an ignorant liar.

 

[skookerasbil]

Damn...the OP has no clue how the world works. These climate wankers...how is it even possible to get it wrong so consistently?

Costs in their world...insignificant.

Whoooops

 

[Crick]

Damn...the OP has no clue how the world works. These climate wankers...how is it even possible to get it wrong so consistently?

Costs in their world...insignificant.

Whoooops

Do tell skook. How does the world actually work? Why don't you explain to us why the response of the tobacco industry to medical science's finding that their product caused lung and bladder cancer isn't a likely model for the fossil fuel industry in the wake of the findings of the world's scientists regarding greenhouse gases and AGW? What did I, as a committed "climate wanker" get wrong?

 

[ding]

Do tell skook. How does the world actually work? Why don't you explain to us why the response of the tobacco industry to medical science's finding that their product caused lung and bladder cancer isn't a likely model for the fossil fuel industry in the wake of the findings of the world's scientists regarding greenhouse gases and AGW? What did I, as a committed "climate wanker" get wrong?

That temperature correlates to CO2. That's what you got wrong.

 

[Crick]

That temperature correlates to CO2. That's what you got wrong.

God are you stupid.

 

[elektra]

You stated "Solar pabels(sic) and wind turbines burn and conume(sic) trillions of lbs if not trillions of tons of natural resources to include fossil fuels."

In operation, of course, solar panels consume none and the only petroleum a wind turbine uses during operation would be as a lubricant. Of course, you stated that they consume "natural resources" giving you a lot of leeway. Solar panels and wind turbines are made of various materials of course. But then, so are the turbines and generators and piping required to build a coal, oil or natural gas-fired power plant. But let's talk about the BIG difference. Oil is a natural resource. So is coal and so is natural gas. How much of THAT does a typical power plant use? From the US Energy Information Agency (Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)) we find:

The annual average amounts of coal, natural gas, and petroleum fuels used to generate a kilowatthour (kWh) of electricity by U.S. electric utilities and independent power producers in 2021 were

• Coal–1.12 pounds/kWh
• Natural gas–7.36 cubic feet/kWh
• Petroleum liquids–0.08 gallons/kWh
• Petroleum coke–0.82 pounds/kWh

So, let's take a hypothetical 5 gigawatt (5 million kW) plant. Over the course of a year (8,760 hours) such a plant would use 43,800,000,000 times the hourly rate in the table. So for each of these fuels we get:

49,056,000,000 pounds of coal
322,368,000,000 cubic feet of natural gas
3,504,000,000 gallons of petroleum liquids
35,916,000,000 pounds of petroleum coke

The lives of wind turbines and power plants are roughly the same, so for a span of 25 years, these technologies would consume:

1,226,400,000,000 pounds of coal
8,059,200,000,000 cubic feet of natural gas
87,600,000,000 gallons of petroleum liquids
897,900,000,000 pounds of petroleum coke

But this is only one, 5 GW plant. You said "...largest polluter in the world". So, how much power did the world use in 2021? The EIA says 25,300 TWh. For worldwide resource consumption per your preferred technologies, we need to multiply that last table by a factor of 5,060,000. That gives us:

6,205,584,000,000,000,000 pounds of coal (6 quintillion, 205 quadrillion, 584 trillion pounds of coal)
40,779,552,000,000,000,000 cubic feet of natural gas (40 quintillion, 779 quadrillion, 552 trillion cubic feet of natural gas)
443,256,000,000,000,000 gallons of liquid petroleum (443 quadrillion, 256 trillion gallons of liquid petroleum)
4,543,374,000,000,000,000 pounds of petroleum coke (4 quintillion, 543 quadrillion, 374 trillion pounds of petroleum coke)

So, my calculator says that wind turbines and solar panels are as green as green can be and that you're an ignorant liar.

As I said, there is no larger industry in the world, than the Renewable Heavy Industry.

Name any industry producing more? Thus far, and still counting over 97 billion solar panels have been manufactured by heavy industry utilizing fossil fuels. Those solar panels are then installed on the earth, on farmland, woodland, forests, open fields, protected wilderness. 97 billion solar panels that cover the earth by the square mile. Not one or two square miles, but hundreds of square miles, thousands of square miles.

Fossil fuels, Nuclear energy, does not destroy the earth as does Solar panels.

97 billion solar panels? Average weight of each panel, at least 50 lbs. How much coal and natural gas is consumed building so much that gives us so little in return. How much longer must this manufacturing go on.

Forever. Forever we will be using the Renewable Heavy Industry to manufacture Solar Panels which have the shortest lifespan of any product used to convert energy into electricity.

Solar panels destroy the world, they do not save the world. They pollute forever, for we must never ever stop manufacturing solar panels. A huge win for Wall st. which trades the materials needed for endless manufacturing.

 

[Crick]

As I said, there is no larger industry in the world, than the Renewable Heavy Industry.

Name any industry producing more? Thus far, and still counting over 97 billion solar panels have been manufactured by heavy industry utilizing fossil fuels. Those solar panels are then installed on the earth, on farmland, woodland, forests, open fields, protected wilderness. 97 billion solar panels that cover the earth by the square mile. Not one or two square miles, but hundreds of square miles, thousands of square miles.

Fossil fuels, Nuclear energy, does not destroy the earth as does Solar panels.

97 billion solar panels? Average weight of each panel, at least 50 lbs. How much coal and natural gas is consumed building so much that gives us so little in return. How much longer must this manufacturing go on.

Forever. Forever we will be using the Renewable Heavy Industry to manufacture Solar Panels which have the shortest lifespan of any product used to convert energy into electricity.

Solar panels destroy the world, they do not save the world. They pollute forever, for we must never ever stop manufacturing solar panels. A huge win for Wall st. which trades the materials needed for endless manufacturing.

You need help. You have lost the bubble dude.

 

[ding]

God are you stupid.

^THAT IS A textbook dunning effect statement

Feel free to explain what radiative forcing component was responsible for the previous interglacial cycle being 2C warmer than today with 26 ft higher seas with 120 ppm LESS atmospheric CO2 than today.

 

[elektra]

You need help. You have lost the bubble dude.

Yet, you cant tell us the cost or the size of solar.

The Renewable Heavy Industry has manufactured over 97 billion solar panels. Forever we will be manufacturing billions of solar panels which pollutes and destroys the earth.

Heavy Industry, none bigger than the Renewable Heavy Industry.

 

[Crick]

Yet, you cant tell us the cost or the size of solar.

The Renewable Heavy Industry has manufactured over 97 billion solar panels. Forever we will be manufacturing billions of solar panels which pollutes and destroys the earth.

Heavy Industry, none bigger than the Renewable Heavy Industry.

What is the cost and the size of sticking with coal, oil and natural gas? The fossil fuel industry will have burned quadrillions of tons of their product before its over. Do you think that has no cost?