Freedom of Religion? Christian Artists Face Jail Time For Not Making Same-Sex Wedding Invitations

[NYcarbineer]

The Constitution doesn't protect human sacrifice no matter how religious someone might claim it is.

That's the starting point. Do you dispute it?

Dispute what, that you pulled some WILD, WAY OUT strawman to derail the serious conversation? Other than the extinct Mayans, can you name any American church that believes in human sacrifice? (And please provide a link, not just pull something out of a random orifice.)

The Aztec religion required human sacrifice. It was IN FACT a religion. According to you, if that religion were to come back, the Constitution would protect human sacrifice as one of its practices.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

However any law that is contradictory to the United States Constitution is itself illegal. The United States Constitution provides for the Freedom of Religion and the 'exercise thereof'.

If these people, as NYC pointed out, were discriminating due to color -which is not supported biblically, then there would be a case. In this case, religious teachings and faith/beliefs are supported biblically.

Again:

The United States Supreme Court ruled in Employment Division v. Smith (1990) that a person may not defy neutral laws of general applicability, such as public accommodation laws, as an expression of religious belief. "To permit this," wrote Justice Scalia, "would make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself." He wrote that neutral laws of general applicability do not have to meet the standard of strict scrutiny, because such a requirement would create "a private right to ignore generally applicable laws".

 

[Skull Pilot]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

However any law that is contradictory to the United States Constitution is itself illegal. The United States Constitution provides for the Freedom of Religion and the 'exercise thereof'.

Where in the bible does it say one cannot print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

Their business is NOT a religion

 

[martybegan]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

You want an all white church, you can probably have it. What you can't have is an all white place of business.

if the business is non-essential, non time sensitive, and easily obtainable elsewhere, why not?

 

[martybegan]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

The question is does public accommodation automatically override the 1st amendment. If so, well, welcome to tyranny land, if not, one has to set the bar to where the government has to fix the situation using the least imposing method possible.

 

[martybegan]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

However any law that is contradictory to the United States Constitution is itself illegal. The United States Constitution provides for the Freedom of Religion and the 'exercise thereof'.

Where in the bible does it say one cannot print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

Their business is NOT a religion

One does not give up constitutional rights because one wants to sell something.

 

[TheDude]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

The "swing" left LGBT are a VERY nasty group. Next thing they'll do is sue if you don't open your pretend-o-pussy to them.

 

[easyt65]

Where in the bible does it say one cannot print words on a piece of paper for gay people? Their business is NOT a religion

The bible states homosexuality is a sin, and the bible states Christians should not partake in, support, or encourage sinning. Obeying the teachings of their faith is exercising the freedom of their religion. Exercising their freedom affects how they do business.

Try passing a law outlawing Muslim women covering their heads or forbidding Muslims from using prayer rugs or Muslim store owners from stooping what they are doing while working to suddenly pray and see how that goes. No such demand would even be thought of no less imposed on Muslims.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

The question is does public accommodation automatically override the 1st amendment. If so, well, welcome to tyranny land, if not, one has to set the bar to where the government has to fix the situation using the least imposing method possible.

How does printing words on a piece of paper constitute denying a person the right to practice his religion. Those people can go to church all they want and do whatever they do there. Printing something does not stop them from doing any of that.

And by judging other people these so called christians are disobeying a tenet of the magic sky man's instruction book

Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.



and please tell me where in the bible it says one can't print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

 

[easyt65]

Again, lets say the country swings more liberal in years to come and suddenly pedophilia, bestiality, or necrophilia become legal....are liberals going to threaten Americans who do not want to engage, facilitate / enable / such activities if those engaging in these things declare they are offended by that refusal based on religious beliefs?!

 

[martybegan]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

However any law that is contradictory to the United States Constitution is itself illegal. The United States Constitution provides for the Freedom of Religion and the 'exercise thereof'.

If these people, as NYC pointed out, were discriminating due to color -which is not supported biblically, then there would be a case. In this case, religious teachings and faith/beliefs are supported biblically.

Again:

The United States Supreme Court ruled in Employment Division v. Smith (1990) that a person may not defy neutral laws of general applicability, such as public accommodation laws, as an expression of religious belief. "To permit this," wrote Justice Scalia, "would make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself." He wrote that neutral laws of general applicability do not have to meet the standard of strict scrutiny, because such a requirement would create "a private right to ignore generally applicable laws".

And that led to revised state laws to accommodate peyote use, and a Federal law meant to protect religious actions.

And bringing up the netural laws things in interesting, but not applicable because these PA laws in question are NOT neutral, they only protect certain protected classes.
for them to be neutral EVERYONE would have to be protected, so things like political opinion would have to be protected as well.

 

[easyt65]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

The question is does public accommodation automatically override the 1st amendment. If so, well, welcome to tyranny land, if not, one has to set the bar to where the government has to fix the situation using the least imposing method possible.

How does printing words on a piece of paper constitute denying a person the right to practice his religion. Those people can go to church all they want and do whatever they do there. Printing something does not stop them from doing any of that.

And by judging other people these so called christians are disobeying a tenet of the magic sky man's instruction book

Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.



and please tell me where in the bible it says one can't print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

Way to 'cherry-pick' scripture....

 

[Skull Pilot]

Where in the bible does it say one cannot print words on a piece of paper for gay people? Their business is NOT a religion

The bible states homosexuality is a sin, and the bible states Christians should not partake in, support, or encourage sinning. Obeying the teachings of their faith is exercising the freedom of their religion. Exercising their freedom affects how they do business.

Try passing a law outlawing Muslim women covering their heads or forbidding Muslims from using prayer rugs or Muslim store owners from stooping what they are doing while working to suddenly pray and see how that goes. No such demand would even be thought of no less imposed on Muslims.

The bible states that all kinds of things are sins so do these so called christians dent business to divorced people getting married a second time? Do they deny service to people who have had premarital sex? Who take the lord's name in vain? Who covet thy neighbors wife?

Or are christians allowed to pick and choose what sinners to persecute?

 

[martybegan]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

The question is does public accommodation automatically override the 1st amendment. If so, well, welcome to tyranny land, if not, one has to set the bar to where the government has to fix the situation using the least imposing method possible.

How does printing words on a piece of paper constitute denying a person the right to practice his religion. Those people can go to church all they want and do whatever they do there. Printing something does not stop them from doing any of that.

And by judging other people these so called christians are disobeying a tenet of the magic sky man's instruction book

Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.



and please tell me where in the bible it says one can't print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

1. Who are you or I to judge how a person practices their religion?

2. See # 1.

As long as it isn't 1) government discriminating or 2) said discrimination impacting interstate commerce (at the federal level) or involving a needed, time sensitive service good, or if going to another provider would be unreasonably burdensome, why should people be forced to do things they don't want to do?

 

[hazlnut]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

We need to stop allowing homophobes to claim "Christianity" as a defense.

It's sickening that people misuse scripture and create their own perverted doctrine as a way to justify their own fears and insecurities.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

The question is does public accommodation automatically override the 1st amendment. If so, well, welcome to tyranny land, if not, one has to set the bar to where the government has to fix the situation using the least imposing method possible.

How does printing words on a piece of paper constitute denying a person the right to practice his religion. Those people can go to church all they want and do whatever they do there. Printing something does not stop them from doing any of that.

And by judging other people these so called christians are disobeying a tenet of the magic sky man's instruction book

Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.



and please tell me where in the bible it says one can't print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

Way to 'cherry-pick' scripture....

these so called christian are doing the same thing

I'll bet you 100 bucks these so called christians have no problem printing wedding invitations for divorcees and second marriages or for people who have had sex out of wedlock

 

[martybegan]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

We need to stop allowing homophobes to claim "Christianity" as a defense.

It's sickening that people misuse scripture and create their own perverted doctrine as a way to justify their own fears and insecurities.

Kind of like how progressive twats such as yourself need to eliminate any form of conservative or libertarian thought?

 

[easyt65]

The bible states that all kinds of things are sins so do these so called christians dent business to divorced people getting married a second time?

Being a Christian isn't like joining one huge fraternity where everyone has to believe the exact same thing - to expect all people to do so is ludicrous. The Constitution states 'freedom of religion - not any specific one - and the exercise thereof - not the exercise of any ONE agreed upon religious belief.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Public accommodation laws clearly state that a person cannot be discriminated against because of race religion or sexual orientation.
If you want to run a business you have to obey the law.

The question is does public accommodation automatically override the 1st amendment. If so, well, welcome to tyranny land, if not, one has to set the bar to where the government has to fix the situation using the least imposing method possible.

How does printing words on a piece of paper constitute denying a person the right to practice his religion. Those people can go to church all they want and do whatever they do there. Printing something does not stop them from doing any of that.

And by judging other people these so called christians are disobeying a tenet of the magic sky man's instruction book

Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.



and please tell me where in the bible it says one can't print words on a piece of paper for gay people?

1. Who are you or I to judge how a person practices their religion?

2. See # 1.

As long as it isn't 1) government discriminating or 2) said discrimination impacting interstate commerce (at the federal level) or involving a needed, time sensitive service good, or if going to another provider would be unreasonably burdensome, why should people be forced to do things they don't want to do?

I'm not judging. I am asking what is sinful about printing words on a piece of paper? And where is that covered in the bible?
And if these people will print words for adulterers or murderers or divorced people why not gay people

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that shit

 

[TheDude]

How does printing words on a piece of paper constitute denying a person the right to practice his religion. I suppose you'd have difficulty understanding something as simple as this if you're a proponent for LGBT decay.

Those people can go to church all they want and do whatever they do there. Printing something does not stop them from doing any of that. I suppose you'd have difficulty understanding something as simple as this if you're a proponent for LGBT decay.

And by judging other people these so called christians are disobeying a tenet of the magic sky man's instruction book. I see, so it's your way or the highway. They should participate because you say so.

Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. I see, so if you don't participate then you're judging. Thus we can conclude Christians must participate in anything you want them to. If they don't bend over for you we can conclude they're hypocrites and sinners.

and please tell me where in the bible it says one can't print words on a piece of paper for gay people? Please tell me where in the bible does it state you must not open your male quasi-puss for a leftist on demand?