Game Over For Obama

[TakeAStepBack]

Talking about single payer is useless. It wont pass constitutional review. One of the reasons the Dems didn't push it in th efirst place. The SCOTUS has already ruled that the congress doesn't have the authority under the commerce clause to force Americans to participate in commerce. That's why Obama Tax was just that, a tax.

Single Payer will only come about in the event LOLberals can get a constitutional amendment through allowing it.

Good luck.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The implementation schedule is PART OF THE LAW. Changing the implementation schedule is a violation of the law.

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your link failed to substantiate your erroneous allegation;

implementation schedule is PART OF THE LAW. Changing the implementation schedule is a violation of the law

Thank you for conceding that you were wrong on this point.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Talking about single payer is useless. It wont pass constitutional review. One of the reasons the Dems didn't push it in th efirst place. The SCOTUS has already ruled that the congress doesn't have the authority under the commerce clause to force Americans to participate in commerce. That's why Obama Tax was just that, a tax.

Single Payer will only come about in the event LOLberals can get a constitutional amendment through allowing it.

Good luck.

Please provide credible substantiation for your allegation that single-payer is unconstitutional.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Unlike Katrina, the damage from obamacare is not localized. You can't turn off the TV, eliminate the images, and go out in your own perfect front yard. obamacare is hurting millions of people from one end of the country to the other. If there are 500k people enrolled next month, that 500k of people who lost insurance they liked, now have insurance they don't like, lost their doctors, and the small business provisions will kick in next year making things even worse.

Exactly. With Bush it was Katrina and Iraq. But none of it was beyond a localized hemorrage. The majority of people could completely ignore the situation and it would not affect them.

With Obama Tax, that's not the case at all. You have millions of people from all over the country who are being directly affected in a number of ways:

They were lied to
Theya re losing their insurance
They are paying more to get insurance

And we havent even gotten to the part where certain delayed aspects, such as the employer mandate, take effect.

Obama is toast unless he comes up with a sure fix. Based on his track record and the lying etc...I dont see that happening. Democrats are going to jump ship and let him sink.

Not only that, Obamacare will sink the Dem party and liberalism for many years to come, and thats a good thing for the country.

If the GOP runs on repealing Obamacare they will be running on taking insurance away from tens of millions of Americans. Far more than will be adversely affected by the law.

 

[Kathy58]

Exactly. With Bush it was Katrina and Iraq. But none of it was beyond a localized hemorrage. The majority of people could completely ignore the situation and it would not affect them.

With Obama Tax, that's not the case at all. You have millions of people from all over the country who are being directly affected in a number of ways:

They were lied to
Theya re losing their insurance
They are paying more to get insurance

And we havent even gotten to the part where certain delayed aspects, such as the employer mandate, take effect.

Obama is toast unless he comes up with a sure fix. Based on his track record and the lying etc...I dont see that happening. Democrats are going to jump ship and let him sink.

Not only that, Obamacare will sink the Dem party and liberalism for many years to come, and thats a good thing for the country.

If the GOP runs on repealing Obamacare they will be running on taking insurance away from tens of millions of Americans. Far more than will be adversely affected by the law.

Obamacare is doing that already.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Talking about single payer is useless. It wont pass constitutional review. One of the reasons the Dems didn't push it in th efirst place. The SCOTUS has already ruled that the congress doesn't have the authority under the commerce clause to force Americans to participate in commerce. That's why Obama Tax was just that, a tax.

Single Payer will only come about in the event LOLberals can get a constitutional amendment through allowing it.

Good luck.

Please provide credible substantiation for your allegation that single-payer is unconstitutional.

The only way it goes through is if it's sold as a tax on the American people. A pretty hefty tax. Are LOLberals going to do that? They certainly know the outcome if they did. Thats why they lied about Obamacare not being a tax until it was actually a tax afterall.

I'll rescind the notion that a single payer system wouldn't pass consitutional muster. It probably would if sold as a tax system. So tht means democrats would need to go out and tell voters they are signing up for a massive tax hike to cover the costs of a single payer system. To top that off, after this last sham, voters aren't going to jump on board to anything where government is the manager.

Dems are fucked on this issue unless republicans jump in and splah even more shit on people. Which it looks liek they are eager to do.

 

[clevergirl]

Talking about single payer is useless. It wont pass constitutional review. One of the reasons the Dems didn't push it in th efirst place. The SCOTUS has already ruled that the congress doesn't have the authority under the commerce clause to force Americans to participate in commerce. That's why Obama Tax was just that, a tax.

Single Payer will only come about in the event LOLberals can get a constitutional amendment through allowing it.

Good luck.

Please provide credible substantiation for your allegation that single-payer is unconstitutional.

Universal Healthcare "single payer"- is strangling the EU via unsustainable taxation. The last thing this country needs is single payer healthcare!

As the following quote from an article lays out -the only way through the obamacare debacle is with a good plan to take its place- not merely a repeal.

For the first time ever, some polls are showing a majority of Americans doubting the goal of universal health coverage.

The hazard of the moment is that a compromise “reform” that drops the mandate and attempts to restore the insurance status quo ante could leave us with an unfunded expansion of Medicaid and a badly disrupted private insurance market. Republicans should avoid both the political traps and a new fiscal time bomb by being ready with a serious replacement policy, based on the premium support tax credit ideas that John McCain advocated (poorly) in 2008. While anxious liberals are in dismay, they should recognize that Obamacare may well have achieved its chief purpose of making universal or at least greatly expanded health coverage a fixture of American social policy. The cost to liberalism may prove fatal, however.

Obamacare Will Be Repealed Well In Advance Of The 2014 Elections - Forbes

 

[JakeStarkey]

I corrected that on #6. there would be a cost but it would be tiny compared to what ACA is going to cost us.

on 1 and 2, the legislation could specify that the increase to the premium for pre-existing conditions could not be more than X% of the premium for a healthy person. Lifetime maximums are not a big deal except for a very few people, so I don't see that as a problem.

You're basically just citing provisions that are already in Obamacare.

Yes, and those I listed are the ONLY provisions that are needed. for example, we do not need a real estate sales tax in a healthcare bill. We do not need provisions that mandate that 65 year old women pay for birth control and maternity. We do not need provisions that mandate that 25 year olds pay for senility benefits. We do not need a federal law that tells us what insurance we must buy or be fined.

Then get busy to help reform the bill because the fact remains you can't repeal it.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Talking about single payer is useless. It wont pass constitutional review. One of the reasons the Dems didn't push it in th efirst place. The SCOTUS has already ruled that the congress doesn't have the authority under the commerce clause to force Americans to participate in commerce. That's why Obama Tax was just that, a tax.

Single Payer will only come about in the event LOLberals can get a constitutional amendment through allowing it.

Good luck.

Please provide credible substantiation for your allegation that single-payer is unconstitutional.

The only way it goes through is if it's sold as a tax on the American people. A pretty hefty tax. Are LOLberals going to do that? They certainly know the outcome if they did. Thats why they lied about Obamacare not being a tax until it was actually a tax afterall.

I'll rescind the notion that a single payer system wouldn't pass consitutional muster. It probably would if sold as a tax system. So tht means democrats would need to go out and tell voters they are signing up for a massive tax hike to cover the costs of a single payer system. To top that off, after this last sham, voters aren't going to jump on board to anything where government is the manager.

Dems are fucked on this issue unless republicans jump in and splah even more shit on people. Which it looks liek they are eager to do.

Thank you for conceding that single-payer is constitutional. As far as a tax hike is concerned it is inevitable irrespective of any healthcare issues. But to address the issue of single-payer tax hike under the control of the voters vs incessant uncontrolled HMO profit driven increases it is a no brainer which one the voters would prefer when it is explained in those terms. Doubtless the Tea Party faction will blow smoke and scream at town hall events like ill-behaved children.

 

[clevergirl]

You're basically just citing provisions that are already in Obamacare.

Yes, and those I listed are the ONLY provisions that are needed. for example, we do not need a real estate sales tax in a healthcare bill. We do not need provisions that mandate that 65 year old women pay for birth control and maternity. We do not need provisions that mandate that 25 year olds pay for senility benefits. We do not need a federal law that tells us what insurance we must buy or be fined.

Then get busy to help reform the bill because the fact remains you can't repeal it.

Yes You Can~

https://www.askheritage.org/can-obamacare-be-repealed-in-the-senate/

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Good luck. If you actually think that anyone is going to be in a position any time soon to go out and sell another healthcare related system to voters, I think you're sadly mistaken. Democrat credibility is cu8rrently in the toilet and will remain there for a long time.

And Obamacare wasnt sold as a tax, remember? Politicians arent capable of telling the truth and now that we've just gotten a dose of LOLberal reality on the matter, I dont see single payer coming up at all any time soon. Whether or not HMO costs will outpace the taxation of such a plan.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Talking about single payer is useless. It wont pass constitutional review. One of the reasons the Dems didn't push it in th efirst place. The SCOTUS has already ruled that the congress doesn't have the authority under the commerce clause to force Americans to participate in commerce. That's why Obama Tax was just that, a tax.

Single Payer will only come about in the event LOLberals can get a constitutional amendment through allowing it.

Good luck.

Please provide credible substantiation for your allegation that single-payer is unconstitutional.

Universal Healthcare "single payer"- is strangling the EU via unsustainable taxation. The last thing this country needs is single payer healthcare!

As the following quote from an article lays out -the only way through the obamacare debacle is with a good plan to take its place- not merely a repeal.

For the first time ever, some polls are showing a majority of Americans doubting the goal of universal health coverage.

The hazard of the moment is that a compromise “reform” that drops the mandate and attempts to restore the insurance status quo ante could leave us with an unfunded expansion of Medicaid and a badly disrupted private insurance market. Republicans should avoid both the political traps and a new fiscal time bomb by being ready with a serious replacement policy, based on the premium support tax credit ideas that John McCain advocated (poorly) in 2008. While anxious liberals are in dismay, they should recognize that Obamacare may well have achieved its chief purpose of making universal or at least greatly expanded health coverage a fixture of American social policy. The cost to liberalism may prove fatal, however.

Obamacare Will Be Repealed Well In Advance Of The 2014 Elections - Forbes

Your link failed to substantiate the allegation which has been withdrawn by the original poster.

Furthermore your own link contradicted itself;

Opinion polls for decades have shown a large majority of Americans support the general idea of universal health coverage.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Supporting the general idea is one thing. When hilary tried to roll out hilarycare in 94, it didnt' even come up for a vote. People like a general idea, sure. That can be translated to almost anything. I liek the general idea of a lot of things I would be staunchly against in reality. Because once you start telling people what they have to put into it for it to work, it quickly goes from in the good graces to good riddence.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, and those I listed are the ONLY provisions that are needed. for example, we do not need a real estate sales tax in a healthcare bill. We do not need provisions that mandate that 65 year old women pay for birth control and maternity. We do not need provisions that mandate that 25 year olds pay for senility benefits. We do not need a federal law that tells us what insurance we must buy or be fined.

Then get busy to help reform the bill because the fact remains you can't repeal it.

Yes You Can~

https://www.askheritage.org/can-obamacare-be-repealed-in-the-senate/

No, you can't. Too much time, energy, emotion, $$$, and peoples' lives invested in it. Won't be repealed.

So get cracking on reforming it the way you think it should be.

The program will be here long after you have passed on.

 

[g5000]

There's an undertone of panic in the words of the conservatives here.

"Obama is doomed! HE'S DOOMED I TELL YOU! DOOMED! DOOMED! DOOOOOOMED! MOMMY, MAKE THE MEAN MEAN OBAMA BE DOOMED! WAAAAAAAH!"

So, Obama is doomed yet another time? Golly, we've never heard that before. Must be true this time, because things are totally different from all the other times he was doomed.

So you are saying Obama wil finally, this time, for real get his mojo back, as predicted time and time and time and time again?

 

[clevergirl]

Please provide credible substantiation for your allegation that single-payer is unconstitutional.

The only way it goes through is if it's sold as a tax on the American people. A pretty hefty tax. Are LOLberals going to do that? They certainly know the outcome if they did. Thats why they lied about Obamacare not being a tax until it was actually a tax afterall.

I'll rescind the notion that a single payer system wouldn't pass consitutional muster. It probably would if sold as a tax system. So tht means democrats would need to go out and tell voters they are signing up for a massive tax hike to cover the costs of a single payer system. To top that off, after this last sham, voters aren't going to jump on board to anything where government is the manager.

Dems are fucked on this issue unless republicans jump in and splah even more shit on people. Which it looks liek they are eager to do.

Thank you for conceding that single-payer is constitutional. As far as a tax hike is concerned it is inevitable irrespective of any healthcare issues. But to address the issue of single-payer tax hike under the control of the voters vs incessant uncontrolled HMO profit driven increases it is a no brainer which one the voters would prefer when it is explained in those terms. Doubtless the Tea Party faction will blow smoke and scream at town hall events like ill-behaved children.

Yes, just what we need another entitlement program that the government controls' where waste and fraud can run rampant and the pork can be loaded up on "reform bills". I think NOT.

Other nations with government-dominated healthcare systems offer a preview of the fiscal woes and substandard care that lie ahead thanks to the president’s spendthrift reform plan.

In order to realize some savings, the NHS is raising the threshold at which patients qualify for treatment and lengthening wait times for surgeries determined “non-lifesaving.” The Service is also cutting more than 20,000 NHS jobs over the next two years and shuttering a number of hospitals

Patients are feeling the pain. For decades, they’ve turned over substantial portions of their hard-earned paychecks as taxes — and accepted “free”

health care from the government in return. Only about 11 percent of Britons pay for their care privately.

They’ve foregone cutting-edge medical treatments available in the United States, told by their leaders that these new therapies were no better than the old ones — just more expensive. At least in Britain, they thought, everyone has access to basic health care. That has to be better than the situation in America, where tens of millions of people lack health insurance, right?

Hardly. The British healthcare system may “guarantee” access to care — but that doesn’t mean patients actually receive it.

The Ugly Realities Of Socialized Medicine Are Not Going Away - Forbes

 

[Derideo_Te]

Good luck. If you actually think that anyone is going to be in a position any time soon to go out and sell another healthcare related system to voters, I think you're sadly mistaken. Democrat credibility is cu8rrently in the toilet and will remain there for a long time.

And Obamacare wasnt sold as a tax, remember? Politicians arent capable of telling the truth and now that we've just gotten a dose of LOLberal reality on the matter, I dont see single payer coming up at all any time soon. Whether or not HMO costs will outpace the taxation of such a plan.

The ACA wasn't sold as a tax because it was the conservative Heritage Foundation's alternative to single-payer. It was primarily a mandate that everyone must be insured but it left in place the expensive and unsustainable for profit HMO model for providing healthcare insurance.

The solution doesn't require any "tax increase" either. All it will take is to offer the "public option" which means that instead of giving your money to a for profit HMO and only getting 80 cents worth of healthcare for every dollar you spend you can give it to the government instead and get 95+ cents worth of healthcare for every dollar.

Who isn't going to want more for their money? Who is going to oppose something that simple and effective?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Then get busy to help reform the bill because the fact remains you can't repeal it.

Yes You Can~

https://www.askheritage.org/can-obamacare-be-repealed-in-the-senate/

No, you can't. Too much time, energy, emotion, $$$, and peoples' lives invested in it. Won't be repealed.

So get cracking on reforming it the way you think it should be.

The program will be here long after you have passed on.

Any law can be repealed.

But you idiot liberals seem to think this one can't.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Good luck. If you actually think that anyone is going to be in a position any time soon to go out and sell another healthcare related system to voters, I think you're sadly mistaken. Democrat credibility is cu8rrently in the toilet and will remain there for a long time.

And Obamacare wasnt sold as a tax, remember? Politicians arent capable of telling the truth and now that we've just gotten a dose of LOLberal reality on the matter, I dont see single payer coming up at all any time soon. Whether or not HMO costs will outpace the taxation of such a plan.

The ACA wasn't sold as a tax because it was the conservative Heritage Foundation's alternative to single-payer. It was primarily a mandate that everyone must be insured but it left in place the expensive and unsustainable for profit HMO model for providing healthcare insurance.

The solution doesn't require any "tax increase" either. All it will take is to offer the "public option" which means that instead of giving your money to a for profit HMO and only getting 80 cents worth of healthcare for every dollar you spend you can give it to the government instead and get 95+ cents worth of healthcare for every dollar.

Who isn't going to want more for their money? Who is going to oppose something that simple and effective?

It was upheld by SCOTUS as a tax.

 

[clevergirl]

Then get busy to help reform the bill because the fact remains you can't repeal it.

Yes You Can~

https://www.askheritage.org/can-obamacare-be-repealed-in-the-senate/

No, you can't. Too much time, energy, emotion, $$$, and peoples' lives invested in it. Won't be repealed.

So get cracking on reforming it the way you think it should be.

The program will be here long after you have passed on.

No, Jake, the one certain way to get voters cracking to demand repeal is to take their money in large swaths as Obamacare is created to do. As the article I posted points out; delay and repeal is a very likely scenario we can see being played out over the next two years- So long as the GOP proffers forth a better way going forward- repeal will happen.