Germany prosecuting NAZIs

[TNHarley]

For some reason, this just randomly popped in my head, and got me wonderin...
The NAZIs ruled Germany. It was their government. It also had the support of their people.
Those soldiers were doing what they were told.
Imagine a internment camp officer deciding not to do it anymore, and tries to flee. The german government would kill them. And now, they are prosecuting them for listening to them?
This just doesnt make sense to me. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[JoeB131]

For some reason, this just randomly popped in my head, and got me wonderin...
The NAZIs ruled Germany. It was their government. It also had the support of their people.
Those soldiers were doing what they were told.
Imagine a internment camp officer deciding not to do it anymore, and tries to flee. The german government would kill them. And now, they are prosecuting them for listening to them?
This just doesnt make sense to me. Maybe I am missing something.

You should probably stop taking drugs, then these things wouldn't radomnly pop into your head.

 

[TNHarley]

You should probably stop taking drugs, then these things wouldn't radomnly pop into your head.

So you dont have a reasonable answer, either. Thanks for nothing, jackass.

 

[TNHarley]

I could see other countries doing it or something. But their own government? That made them do it?

 

[JoeB131]

So you dont have a reasonable answer, either. Thanks for nothing, jackass.

Well, your statement was convoluted, but I guess what you are asking is, should you convict people for only following orders?

Nuremberg put a definitive answer to that, which is why so many Nazis were executed.

You are under no obligation to follow an illegal or immoral order.

So if there was a Nazi who was a camp guard, who carried out the illegal orders, he's still liable.

Not that we are going to prosecute anyone for this at this point, these guys are all past their expiration dates.

 

[ThirdTerm]

West Germany was occupied by the Allies and Nazi war criminals were hunted down by the occupiers. The uncomfortable task was then handed over to German authorities as the Allied occupation of Germany ended. Germany is still obliged to do this as a condition for its independence. Similarly, post-war Japan was occupied by America, which got rid of Japanese right-wing figures from Japanese society.

The hunt for war criminals was accompanied by a campaign to rid German and Austrian politics, industry, media, arts, and the judiciary of Nazis. Former party and SS members were removed from positions of power and influence, and Nazi organisations were abolished.

At the same time, hundreds of thousands of Germans were detained in internment camps while their backgrounds were investigated. There were nine such camps in the British zone, all guarded by British troops.

By late 1946, growing tensions with the Soviet Union, the economic importance of western Germany and a lack of Allied manpower to run the de-nazification effort, saw the campaign wind down. In their zone, the British handed over de-nazification panels to German authorities.

The Army and the occupation of Germany | National Army Museum

Following their victory over Nazi Germany in 1945, the Allies were faced with administering a country in ruins. British soldiers had a leading role in this, helping to hunt war criminals, rebuild industry and help displaced persons.

www.nam.ac.uk

 

[TNHarley]

Well, your statement was convoluted, but I guess what you are asking is, should you convict people for only following orders?

Nuremberg put a definitive answer to that, which is why so many Nazis were executed.

You are under no obligation to follow an illegal or immoral order.

So if there was a Nazi who was a camp guard, who carried out the illegal orders, he's still liable.

Not that we are going to prosecute anyone for this at this point, these guys are all past their expiration dates.

How was it illegal coming from the government who determines what is legal or not?
If I was in the army, I wouldnt go off to fight other peoples wars for them. Or I wouldnt have went to iraq or afghanistan. Because of my morals. And what would have happened to me when i refused to show up for departure?

 

[JoeB131]

How was it illegal coming from the government who determines what is legal or not?
If I was in the army, I wouldnt go off to fight other peoples wars for them. Or I wouldnt have went to iraq or afghanistan. Because of my morals. And what would have happened to me when i refused to show up for departure?

Well, to start with, it's a volunteer military. So you would have signed up to do that when you put your name on the dotted line.

I was in during the Gulf War, which I thought was an awful idea (and the fact we are still mucking around over there 33 years later proves my point.) But I signed an oath to obey the president and the orders of the officers appointed above me.

 

[TNHarley]

Well, to start with, it's a volunteer military. So you would have signed up to do that when you put your name on the dotted line.

I was in during the Gulf War, which I thought was an awful idea (and the fact we are still mucking around over there 33 years later proves my point.) But I signed an oath to obey the president and the orders of the officers appointed above me.

You are straying from your own point. It cant be illegal coming from the government. Morals are subjective.
What if I got drafted for vietnam and i refused? Because of my morals?

 

[JoeB131]

You are straying from your own point. It cant be illegal coming from the government. Morals are subjective.
What if I got drafted for vietnam and i refused? Because of my morals?

You'd have every right to. But there were strictures for doing that. You can claim status as a conscientious objector, for instance.

 

[TNHarley]

You'd have every right to. But there were strictures for doing that. You can claim status as a conscientious objector, for instance.

Yeah, im sure NAZI germany had that lol

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, im sure NAZI germany had that lol

No, they didn't.

Still doesn't excuse the Nazis who followed orders.

Now, all that said, average Germans WERE granted a lot of leeway, which is why some of these guys weren't brought to attention until the 1980's or later. Germany promoted the mythology of the "clean Wehrmacht", where the SS and Nazis were doing all the bad shit, but the Wehrmacht were professional soldiers doing their jobs.

End of the day, I'd rather be killed for doing the right thing than doing the wrong thing.

 

[TNHarley]

Still doesn't excuse the Nazis who followed orders.

Yes, they should have just had the government kill them back then, instead of having them prosecute them now, for listening.

 

[Oddball]

For some reason, this just randomly popped in my head, and got me wonderin...
The NAZIs ruled Germany. It was their government. It also had the support of their people.
Those soldiers were doing what they were told.
Imagine a internment camp officer deciding not to do it anymore, and tries to flee. The german government would kill them. And now, they are prosecuting them for listening to them?
This just doesnt make sense to me. Maybe I am missing something.

Bill of attainder/ex post facto law...Supposed to be illegal here, but not anymore.

 

[TNHarley]

ex post facto law

Bunch of bullshit.
Im not defending those evil people btw. The logic in all this just seems to missing.

 

[Oddball]

Bunch of bullshit.
Im not defending those evil people btw. The logic in all this just seems to missing.

Evil is a rejection of logic.

 

[Litwin]

For some reason, this just randomly popped in my head, and got me wonderin...
The NAZIs ruled Germany. It was their government. It also had the support of their people.
Those soldiers were doing what they were told.
Imagine a internment camp officer deciding not to do it anymore, and tries to flee. The german government would kill them. And now, they are prosecuting them for listening to them?
This just doesnt make sense to me. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[ESay]

Bunch of bullshit.
Im not defending those evil people btw. The logic in all this just seems to missing.

New German authorities (those in post-War period) took obligations on them to persecute people who committed war crimes or those ones who enabled people to do so. It was their obligation to the Allies.

 

[zaangalewa]

For some reason, this just randomly popped in my head, and got me wonderin...
The NAZIs ruled Germany. It was their government. It also had the support of their people.
Those soldiers were doing what they were told.
Imagine a internment camp officer deciding not to do it anymore, and tries to flee. The german government would kill them. And now, they are prosecuting them for listening to them?

Yes - exactly! The "Nazis" - more exact the "Nationalsozialisten" - are wa criminal organisation. And if you have a problem to understand history then seperate Hitler in 56 persons and seperate every of this persons in F,S,H,W (spring, summer, autumn and winter) and try to find out in which way Germany, Austria-Hungaria and Hitler had been traumatized from all the criminal nations of the world including the USA. You will find out that Hitler was the most time of his life a dreamer and loser. This Hitler you seem to know and you try to speak about was born in the trenches of world war 1 - and all "solutions" of world war 1 exploded and are still exploding.

This just doesnt make sense to me. Maybe I am missing something.

First of all you misunderstand the role of the USA and you have an extreme problem with the logic of time. When Hitler was born in 1889 German actors for example gave performances in the USA - not only in standard German but also in German dialects. It was said Germans brought joy to the USA. Parades for example and such things. And what you never asked yourselve is "Why did do the USA 2 times war on Germany although never in history Germany had done anything bad to the USA?"

 

[GLASNOST]

For some reason, this just randomly popped in my head, and got me wonderin...
The NAZIs ruled Germany. It was their government. It also had the support of their people.
Those soldiers were doing what they were told.
Imagine a internment camp officer deciding not to do it anymore, and tries to flee. The german government would kill them. And now, they are prosecuting them for listening to them?
This just doesnt make sense to me.

Well .....

Maybe I am missing something.

Probably. Serving in the German Military didn't make you a Nazi. I was a soldier in the Vietnam War but I didn't agree with Lt. Calley or LB Johnson. In fact, I didn't even want to be there. The population may have supported the German government but not the atrocities committed by it. You know it, I know it, the Germans know it, and those who conducted the Nüremberg trials knew it. That's why some were acquitted.