Glenn Beck and Ron Paul - Traitors?

[Avatar4321]

Yes, and so is Fux News, Rush Limpballs and the GOP.

So why do we feel the need to refer to each other as traitors? Are we so paranoid of each other that we can't see each other as fellow Americans?

The republicans stated goal is to make Obama a failure. That's as anti-American as it gets.

When his success equals the destruction of the Republic, why would we want him to succeed?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Who does the government spy on?


Our enemies


Therefore, OUR government considers it's citizens to be it's enemies.


Snowden went about doing the right thing the wrong way, probably b/c he didn't know what to do.

So, of course, the old guard calls him a traitor, mostly b/c they could end up in chains themselves if this was ever really investigated.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Yes, and so is Fux News, Rush Limpballs and the GOP.

So why do we feel the need to refer to each other as traitors? Are we so paranoid of each other that we can't see each other as fellow Americans?

The republicans stated goal is to make Obama a failure. That's as anti-American as it gets.

obama is not the country


my god, I actually had to explain that

 

[Darkwind]

When both the left and the right are against you en mass on such a position and agree with each other, you can be sure you're in the ethically and morally sound camp.

No, they are not traitors, and exposing government in committing crimes is not treason. That's logic on its head. Only a Statist could think such nonsense up and run with it.

Exposing government wrong-doing is not traitorous.

Giving away our government strategies and abilities to enemies is.

Snowden is a fucking traitor.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Two things first Snowden needs to come back here and defend his actions in a court room and let that determine his guilt or innocence second stating your opinion about Snowden either for or against him does not make one a traitor.

In other words, he needs to come back to the U.S., have no chance to actually defend himself, and end up in a hole like Bradley Manning. Yeah, what a great idea that would be.

Our criminal justice system is not perfect - but it is as good as there is on the planet. If you firmly believe you are in the right, why run and hide? Does he lack the courage of his convictions? Or is he just pooing his pants because his 15 minutes of fame blew up in his face?

Blew up in his face? He's currently free of imprisonment in Russia, able to speak his mind and defend himself against the nonsensical claims of the administration, and has generated numerous awards for himself and the journalists reporting on his leaks. He could do worse.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

When both the left and the right are against you en mass on such a position and agree with each other, you can be sure you're in the ethically and morally sound camp.

No, they are not traitors, and exposing government in committing crimes is not treason. That's logic on its head. Only a Statist could think such nonsense up and run with it.

Exposing government wrong-doing is not traitorous.

Giving away our government strategies and abilities to enemies is.

Snowden is a fucking traitor.

I didn't realize the American people and foreign governments like Germany were considered enemies.

 

[Darkwind]

When both the left and the right are against you en mass on such a position and agree with each other, you can be sure you're in the ethically and morally sound camp.

No, they are not traitors, and exposing government in committing crimes is not treason. That's logic on its head. Only a Statist could think such nonsense up and run with it.

Exposing government wrong-doing is not traitorous.

Giving away our government strategies and abilities to enemies is.

Snowden is a fucking traitor.

I didn't realize the American people and foreign governments like Germany were considered enemies.

You didn't realize the information was released to the entire world and yet you are commenting on this?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Exposing government wrong-doing is not traitorous.

Giving away our government strategies and abilities to enemies is.

Snowden is a fucking traitor.

I didn't realize the American people and foreign governments like Germany were considered enemies.

You didn't realize the information was released to the entire world and yet you are commenting on this?

I think it's you who missed something there, not me.

 

[nodoginnafight]

In other words, he needs to come back to the U.S., have no chance to actually defend himself, and end up in a hole like Bradley Manning. Yeah, what a great idea that would be.

Our criminal justice system is not perfect - but it is as good as there is on the planet. If you firmly believe you are in the right, why run and hide? Does he lack the courage of his convictions? Or is he just pooing his pants because his 15 minutes of fame blew up in his face?

Blew up in his face? He's currently free of imprisonment in Russia, able to speak his mind and defend himself against the nonsensical claims of the administration, and has generated numerous awards for himself and the journalists reporting on his leaks. He could do worse.

Yeah, I lay awake at night wistfully fantasizing about being "free of imprisonment in Russia."

And he had to scramble his butt off to get even THAT much. Wonder what's going to happen to him when Russia gets done with all the shiny new toys he brought them? Think Snowden might be wondering about that too?

The kid may or may not have had the best interests of America in mind when he did what he did. The best you can say of him is that he didn't plan things out very well and he wound up handing over a lot more than he intended to share with his new Russian buddies.

But I'm not in favor of trial by media.

So let him come home and face trial so we can get the whole story.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Our criminal justice system is not perfect - but it is as good as there is on the planet. If you firmly believe you are in the right, why run and hide? Does he lack the courage of his convictions? Or is he just pooing his pants because his 15 minutes of fame blew up in his face?

Blew up in his face? He's currently free of imprisonment in Russia, able to speak his mind and defend himself against the nonsensical claims of the administration, and has generated numerous awards for himself and the journalists reporting on his leaks. He could do worse.

Yeah, I lay awake at night wistfully fantasizing about being "free of imprisonment in Russia."

And he had to scramble his butt of to get even THAT much. Wonder what's going to happen to him when Russia gets done with all the shiny new toys he brought them? Think Snowden might be wondering about that too?

The kid may or may not have had the best interests of America in mind when he did what he did. The best you can say of him is that he didn't plan things out very well and he wound up handing over a lot more than he intended to share with his new Russian buddies.

But I'm not in favor of trial by media.

So let him come home and face trial so we can get the whole story.

Still making up unproven nonsense about him giving information to the Russians are we?

 

[Darkwind]

I didn't realize the American people and foreign governments like Germany were considered enemies.

You didn't realize the information was released to the entire world and yet you are commenting on this?

I think it's you who missed something there, not me.

Does the whole world have the classified information?

Do our enemies?

There are ways to do things properly without endangering your country to you enemies.

I've missed nothing. I won't destroy the whole of the country to get back at a few agencies in the government. I call that cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Its idiotic.

The man is a fucking traitor and if he catches one between the eyes, I'll drink a toast to the shooter.

 

[bripat9643]

You didn't realize the information was released to the entire world and yet you are commenting on this?

I think it's you who missed something there, not me.

Does the whole world have the classified information?

Do our enemies?

There are ways to do things properly without endangering your country to you enemies.

I've missed nothing. I won't destroy the whole of the country to get back at a few agencies in the government. I call that cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Its idiotic.

The man is a fucking traitor and if he catches one between the eyes, I'll drink a toast to the shooter.

How is it done "properly" without going to prison?

 

[Pennywise]

Snowden revealed information more disturbing than anything I can recall in my lifetime. The fact that he is on the run is testament to the truth of his message and the danger he has put himself in. He should never return to the US. There will be no fair hearing, no public discourse.

I can't believe anyone with a brain would support this no limits data mining, other than the pigs in DC.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Blew up in his face? He's currently free of imprisonment in Russia, able to speak his mind and defend himself against the nonsensical claims of the administration, and has generated numerous awards for himself and the journalists reporting on his leaks. He could do worse.

Yeah, I lay awake at night wistfully fantasizing about being "free of imprisonment in Russia."

And he had to scramble his butt of to get even THAT much. Wonder what's going to happen to him when Russia gets done with all the shiny new toys he brought them? Think Snowden might be wondering about that too?

The kid may or may not have had the best interests of America in mind when he did what he did. The best you can say of him is that he didn't plan things out very well and he wound up handing over a lot more than he intended to share with his new Russian buddies.

But I'm not in favor of trial by media.

So let him come home and face trial so we can get the whole story.

Still making up unproven nonsense about him giving information to the Russians are we?

He carried his laptops with him to Russia.

Are you suggesting some unproven nonsense about the Russians never taking a peak?

Seriously?

But hey, we can argue our opinions on the probabilities until we're blue in the face. Doesn't mean a thing.

So let's get him home and on the witness stand so we can find out?

What's wrong with that?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You didn't realize the information was released to the entire world and yet you are commenting on this?

I think it's you who missed something there, not me.

Does the whole world have the classified information?

Do our enemies?

There are ways to do things properly without endangering your country to you enemies.

I've missed nothing. I won't destroy the whole of the country to get back at a few agencies in the government. I call that cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Its idiotic.

The man is a fucking traitor and if he catches one between the eyes, I'll drink a toast to the shooter.

You seem to have a lot of fears about the people of the country and our supposed allies. The fact that you insinuate that he exposed them to get back at them says it all. You come off lie a paranoid schizo, dude. OMG the enemy now knows that the US government is spying on them! WE ARE DOOMED.


Total hysterical nonsense.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You didn't realize the information was released to the entire world and yet you are commenting on this?

I think it's you who missed something there, not me.

Does the whole world have the classified information?

Do our enemies?

There are ways to do things properly without endangering your country to you enemies.

I've missed nothing. I won't destroy the whole of the country to get back at a few agencies in the government. I call that cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Its idiotic.

The man is a fucking traitor and if he catches one between the eyes, I'll drink a toast to the shooter.

Your murder fantasies notwithstanding, does it matter if our "enemies" know that the U.S. government is spying on American citizens, foreign governments, and foreign populations? Not really. It does, however, matter that those people now know that they're being spied upon, and that's what the government is really upset about. Terrorists know it's likely they're being spied on in this fashion, but what nobody knew was the scope of the spying. Talk of harming national security is the reflexive response of government officials caught with their hands in the cookie jar because they have no real legs to stand on.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nah, Glenn etc are not traitors and neither is Snowden.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I think it's you who missed something there, not me.

Does the whole world have the classified information?

Do our enemies?

There are ways to do things properly without endangering your country to you enemies.

I've missed nothing. I won't destroy the whole of the country to get back at a few agencies in the government. I call that cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Its idiotic.

The man is a fucking traitor and if he catches one between the eyes, I'll drink a toast to the shooter.

How is it done "properly" without going to prison?

He's supposed to report his concerns to the people committing the crimes. They'll surely reform themselves.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yeah, I lay awake at night wistfully fantasizing about being "free of imprisonment in Russia."

And he had to scramble his butt of to get even THAT much. Wonder what's going to happen to him when Russia gets done with all the shiny new toys he brought them? Think Snowden might be wondering about that too?

The kid may or may not have had the best interests of America in mind when he did what he did. The best you can say of him is that he didn't plan things out very well and he wound up handing over a lot more than he intended to share with his new Russian buddies.

But I'm not in favor of trial by media.

So let him come home and face trial so we can get the whole story.

Still making up unproven nonsense about him giving information to the Russians are we?

He carried his laptops with him to Russia.

Are you suggesting some unproven nonsense about the Russians never taking a peak?

Seriously?

But hey, we can argue our opinions on the probabilities until we're blue in the face. Doesn't mean a thing.

So let's get him home and on the witness stand so we can find out?

What's wrong with that?

Prove that he brought that information with him to Russia.

What exactly would we find out with Snowden on the witness stand? Nothing. He wouldn't take the witness stand. He'd simply be imprisoned immediately and inevitably accept some plea deal to reduce his punishment and never actually get a chance to speak out about anything. Now, however, he can speak out immediately.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Still making up unproven nonsense about him giving information to the Russians are we?

He carried his laptops with him to Russia.

Are you suggesting some unproven nonsense about the Russians never taking a peak?

Seriously?

But hey, we can argue our opinions on the probabilities until we're blue in the face. Doesn't mean a thing.

So let's get him home and on the witness stand so we can find out?

What's wrong with that?

Prove that he brought that information with him to Russia.

What exactly would we find out with Snowden on the witness stand? Nothing. He wouldn't take the witness stand. He'd simply be imprisoned immediately and inevitably accept some plea deal to reduce his punishment and never actually get a chance to speak out about anything. Now, however, he can speak out immediately.

OK - let's get him and his laptops into a court and we can prove or disprove the allegations.

You are free to fantasize about what may or may not happen and what may or may not be proven.

I favor facts and evidence to fantasy ... so let's get this trial under way.