GOP Seeking to do Away With ATF

[JQPublic1]

It seems to me the last time we heard about the ATF was when they used tanks and poison gas to incinerate about 80 men, women and children in Waco, Texas. As usual the criminal conspiracy known as the mainstream media justified the operation without question even though we wouldn't tolerate such an atrocity in Afghanistan and heads would roll in the Military if such a thing happened. A couple of years before Waco, the ATF tried to intimidate an innocent citizen into being a federal informant. The siege at Ruby Ridge cost the life of Randy Weaver's 12 year old son shot in the back and his wife who was shot in the face by an FBI sniper. Weaver ultimately was awarded a million dollars and the FBI sniper was indicted for manslaughter. The unstated but very real purpose of a federal bureaucracy is to get bigger and more powerful and receive more funding. The ATF is a perfect example of ineffective leadership and an out of control bureaucracy that dragged the FBI down during the 90's. Trump should do away with the agency and streamline federal law enforcement.

The black community probably thought...the chickens had finally come home to roost!

 

[JQPublic1]

So your earlier premise that they do not share information is bogus?

Didn't read the link did ya? Share with the rest of the class what the National Reconnaissance Office would have to do with the "Russian hacking" investigation? Come on, here's your chance to create some new and improved propaganda.

I've got a better idea. Why don't YOU show why you believe the National Reconnaissance Office would NOT have anything to do with the Russian hacking. I did MY job by posting details of how each agency operates. Now it is your time to do a little work. I'll be waiting to see your detailed elucidation .

Obviously you didn't bother to read what they do, their mission is to provide satellite images to other agencies. What would they do, take photos of electrons moving though the wires? Now run along idiot and take your foolish propaganda with you.

I educated you and this is the thanks I get. I read the link and the brief synopses of each agency. I too, noticed the intelligence capabilities of some of the listed agencies were at variance with reports that all of them could have independently concluded that Russia/Putin was behind the hacking scandal. Frankly, though, the news of 17 agencies agreeing on that singular event did not indicate independent validations. Perhaps it was inferred ...but not stated as fact.

But what do you and I know? That the NRO is even listed as an intelligence agency suggests their work entails spatial components that go far beyond rudimentary visual surveillance.. You didn't even consider that the NRO could be instrumental in providing long range audio surveillance through satellites or planes to other intelligence agencies. Is it not a fact, you moron, that the e-mail hacking was done via Internet satellite transmissions ???? Would the NRO not be THE experts able to analyze any electronic fingerprints or tracing data left by the Hackers????

Your typically limited RW worldview dumbs down every forum you assholes congregate in.

Yep and you regressives are the kings of assumptions. Carry on.

At least MY assumptions make sense...yours don't!

 

[JimBowie1958]

In Hollywood the silencer turns the sound into a discreet caugh. In real life the sound is not nearly that quiet.

Mythbusters tackled the question.



With the addition of the silencer the sound of the shot was reduced from standing next to a jet engine levels of hearing damage to about what you would get from a chainsaw.

It isn't silent by any stretch of the imagination. It is not as loud. Hollywood likes to pretend a lot of things. Cop killer bullets have only ever killed cops on the set of the show thanks to special effects. Finding the truth is easy and refusing to do so isn't admirable.

1. How much sound is emitted from a 'silenced' gun depends much on the quality of make of the handgun, the type of silencer and the caliber of the gun. A gun with big tolerances in the action will emit more gas and clang more, tighter tolerance guns make less noise. Silencers with more baffling and that use some kind of grease or jell to catch more noise are more silent. A .22 long rifle is much more quiet than a 45 is when they have suppressors on them, all quality being equal. Of course, the effectiveness of the shot depends a lot more on shot placement and center of body shots are not as likely to be lethal unless you hit a vital organ. The crush stretch cavity formed by a 45 is much much larger than a 22LR, so you can "miss" the vital organ and still shut it down, and also cause shock through internal bleeding.

In this video the slide makes more sound than the firing of the bullet.


2. The effectiveness of using a silencer also depends on the environment in which it is used. In a loud setting, like a thunderstorm or a jack hammer at a construction site, you can mask an unsuppressed gun shot by timing it with thunder or the jack hammer. People are not as likely to notice the sound as a threatening gun shot. Even just a busy street will probably let people dismiss a gun shot as a back fire or kids with fire crackers, etc. But a suppressed gun gives you far more broad range of environments you can shoot in that the sound wont draw attention, especially a silenced 22LR.

3. The Myth Busters did affirm the effectiveness of the suppressor.

4. No crying baby is louder than a helicopter though it may seem so. If they recorded a kid with a set of lungs that strong they should put it in training for the opera, lol..

 

[JimBowie1958]

The black community probably thought...the chickens had finally come home to roost!

Bullshit. The black community does not have a hive mind, so each black person had their own thoughts and reactions.

That racism of yours is peeping out from under your sheets.

 

[JimBowie1958]

At least MY assumptions make sense...yours don't!

Lol, yeah, and WHO does NOT think that, idiot?

 

[JQPublic1]

The black community probably thought...the chickens had finally come home to roost!

Bullshit. The black community does not have a hive mind, so each black person had their own thoughts and reactions.

That racism of yours is peeping out from under your sheets.

I'm talking about those middle classed Christian Blacks united politically as a national voice. That collective voice articulates the interests of all Black folks in this country. When the Branch Davidians were attacked by the ATF, every Black person I spoke to about it reflected upon the past injustices law enforcers have inflicted on them or their neighbors. Indeed, the ATF's behavior a in WACO did reverberate within the Black community as a sign of the chickens coming home to roost.

 

[JQPublic1]

At least MY assumptions make sense...yours don't!

Lol, yeah, and WHO does NOT think that, idiot?

Yeah, but since I am far smarter than you any assumptions I make are usually based in fact. Also, I let it be known when I make assumptions...you appear to assume all the time without ever knowing wtf you're talking about... moron!

 

[SavannahMann]

In Hollywood the silencer turns the sound into a discreet caugh. In real life the sound is not nearly that quiet.

Mythbusters tackled the question.



With the addition of the silencer the sound of the shot was reduced from standing next to a jet engine levels of hearing damage to about what you would get from a chainsaw.

It isn't silent by any stretch of the imagination. It is not as loud. Hollywood likes to pretend a lot of things. Cop killer bullets have only ever killed cops on the set of the show thanks to special effects. Finding the truth is easy and refusing to do so isn't admirable.

1. How much sound is emitted from a 'silenced' gun depends much on the quality of make of the handgun, the type of silencer and the caliber of the gun. A gun with big tolerances in the action will emit more gas and clang more, tighter tolerance guns make less noise. Silencers with more baffling and that use some kind of grease or jell to catch more noise are more silent. A .22 long rifle is much more quiet than a 45 is when they have suppressors on them, all quality being equal. Of course, the effectiveness of the shot depends a lot more on shot placement and center of body shots are not as likely to be lethal unless you hit a vital organ. The crush stretch cavity formed by a 45 is much much larger than a 22LR, so you can "miss" the vital organ and still shut it down, and also cause shock through internal bleeding.

In this video the slide makes more sound than the firing of the bullet.


2. The effectiveness of using a silencer also depends on the environment in which it is used. In a loud setting, like a thunderstorm or a jack hammer at a construction site, you can mask an unsuppressed gun shot by timing it with thunder or the jack hammer. People are not as likely to notice the sound as a threatening gun shot. Even just a busy street will probably let people dismiss a gun shot as a back fire or kids with fire crackers, etc. But a suppressed gun gives you far more broad range of environments you can shoot in that the sound wont draw attention, especially a silenced 22LR.

3. The Myth Busters did affirm the effectiveness of the suppressor.

4. No crying baby is louder than a helicopter though it may seem so. If they recorded a kid with a set of lungs that strong they should put it in training for the opera, lol..

A .22 doesn't make much noise without a silencer. I don't normally wear earplugs when I shoot one. I absolutely do when shooting everything else. Ammunition that breaks the sound barrier makes a crack which is why they sell subsonic ammunition. Even then it isn't silent.

The reality is that anyone can make a silencer. But once you attach it to the pistol you make it much longer. Concealing it becomes much harder. Getting it into action takes longer and you don't gain any barrel length so accurately putting rounds on target is no easier, it is in fact harder. Most silencers obscure the sights on a pistol which means it's that much harder to hit a target.

However I am always on the side of freedom. I might get one of the oil filter adapters. Probably not but it is possible. Where I live there are gunshots heard every day. Folks in the rural parts of Georgia shoot pretty regularly.

My point is that the shot isn't "silent" with a silencer. It just isn't as loud as it is without one.

 

[Johann]

Bad idea. AS long as the ATF has sole enforcement authority, we can limit their funding and control them to an extent.

If they are demolished and their responsibilites absorbed by the DEA/FBI, they'll have access to far greater resources and it would be trivial for a future democratic administration to 'prioritize' 'gun safety enforcement.'

As long as the ATF is a separate, independent agency with the sole authority when it comes to enforcing gun laws, we can keep them on a leash.

 

[Flash]

[

I left the word NOT out in the above paragraph. I meant to say gunfire monitors are NOT meant to PREVENT shootings they just alert cops that a gun has been fired in some area of the city. The time the monitor recorded the shot is invaluable, not only for first responders but also as an excellent investigative tool. And I dare say that cops don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry having access to silencers. At least now they can hear the sniper's shot before it kills them. That gives their surviving partners a chance to locate the killer quicker. With a silencer.... it is harder to detect where the bullets are coming from. ( yeah I know a bullet travels faster than the speed of sound but it sounded good so sue me...heh heh heh)

I understand. Leaving out the word "not" changes what you were trying to say. I occasionally leave out words like that.

I am a NRA certified firearms instructor and a certified range officer. I am around a lot of firearms.

I don't own a suppressor. To me they are not very useful. They only cut down on the noise a little bit. They add a significant amount of weight to the muzzle and tend to cut down on both the accuracy and velocity. They are hard to keep clean and unless you have the right balanced one they can interfere with the cycling of the weapon.

The only one I would consider having is a suppressed .22 for backyard shooting.

The people that really use suppressors in crime are professional criminals that don't abide by any law. The everyday street thug will not use one. I don't think the government should infringe upon the right for me to own one. Of course there are many things in the NFA that I don't like.

By the way, why bother with an expensive suppressor for a committing a crime when you can just put an automobile oil filter on the end of a threaded barrel and get the same results? Crooks know things like that. The laws won't change it.

 

[JQPublic1]

[

I left the word NOT out in the above paragraph. I meant to say gunfire monitors are NOT meant to PREVENT shootings they just alert cops that a gun has been fired in some area of the city. The time the monitor recorded the shot is invaluable, not only for first responders but also as an excellent investigative tool. And I dare say that cops don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry having access to silencers. At least now they can hear the sniper's shot before it kills them. That gives their surviving partners a chance to locate the killer quicker. With a silencer.... it is harder to detect where the bullets are coming from. ( yeah I know a bullet travels faster than the speed of sound but it sounded good so sue me...heh heh heh)

I understand. Leaving out the word "not" changes what you were trying to say. I occasionally leave out words like that.

I am a NRA certified firearms instructor and a certified range officer. I am around a lot of firearms.

I don't own a suppressor. To me they are not very useful. They only cut down on the noise a little bit. They add a significant amount of weight to the muzzle and tend to cut down on both the accuracy and velocity. They are hard to keep clean and unless you have the right balanced one and they can interfere with the cycling of the weapon.

The only one I would consider having is a suppressed .22 for backyard shooting.

The people that really use suppressors in crime are professional criminals that don't abide by any law. The everyday street thug will not use one. I don't think the government should infringe upon the right for me to own one. Of course there are many things in the NFA that I don't like.

By the way, why bother with an expensive suppressor for a committing a crime when you can just put an automobile oil filter on the end of a threaded barrel and get the same results? Crooks know things like that. The laws won't change it.

Great information! I have heard that taping a plastic bottle to the end of a muzzle is cheap and an excellent alternative for close up hit man work..

 

[danielpalos]

The war on drugs is probably one of the most unconstitutional cluster fucks in the history of this country.

What's unconstitutional about making laws against harmful products?

Capitalism can also be harmful; what is unconstitutional about making laws against harmful forms of capitalism, for the poor?

 

[JimBowie1958]

I'm talking about those middle classed Christian Blacks united politically as a national voice. That collective voice articulates the interests of all Black folks in this country.

Again, bullshit.

Who elected them to speak for anyone? No one. Some liberal black preacher says he speaks for the black community and the media runs to hear what he has to say, meanwhile black preachers that oppose gay marriage, higher taxes and want more policing are ignored and denounced as Uncle Toms by the usual left wing Marxists.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yeah, but since I am far smarter than you any assumptions I make are usually based in fact.

roflmao

You illustrate that you lack comprehension about rational thinking, and you dont even realize it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

A .22 doesn't make much noise without a silencer.

Maybe you should watch this video again

The 22LR made some definate noise prior to the use of the suppressor. Huge difference.

The reality is that anyone can make a silencer. But once you attach it to the pistol you make it much longer. Concealing it becomes much harder. Getting it into action takes longer and you don't gain any barrel length so accurately putting rounds on target is no easier, it is in fact harder. Most silencers obscure the sights on a pistol which means it's that much harder to hit a target.

True, but that is why the better suppressors are thin so you can see over the can, and you can also use a lower mounted laser site if the gun has a tactical rail.

However I am always on the side of freedom. I might get one of the oil filter adapters. Probably not but it is possible. Where I live there are gunshots heard every day. Folks in the rural parts of Georgia shoot pretty regularly.

I dont know how effective those things are unless you can match up the caliber to width of the opening for the axial threading of the oil filter.

My point is that the shot isn't "silent" with a silencer. It just isn't as loud as it is without one.

While it is not completely silent, like a whisper, it is much reduced and much more easily camoflaged with other sounds. IT also heavily depends on a multitude of factors as I stated before. Some suppressed handguns can be very silent, while others are just reduced to the sound of a belt smack.

 

[JQPublic1]

I'm talking about those middle classed Christian Blacks united politically as a national voice. That collective voice articulates the interests of all Black folks in this country.

Again, bullshit.

Who elected them to speak for anyone? No one. Some liberal black preacher says he speaks for the black community and the media runs to hear what he has to say, meanwhile black preachers that oppose gay marriage, higher taxes and want more policing are ignored and denounced as Uncle Toms by the usual left wing Marxists.

You've just Proven you are no expert on the Black community. You are rather obtuse as well. A
collective voice is represented by a near solidarity in voting patterns by a group of people with similar interests. You can understand THAT, can't you? RW White males do that too. Just because you call something "bullshit" doesn't mean anything. All it means is that you are ignorant.

 

[JQPublic1]

Yeah, but since I am far smarter than you any assumptions I make are usually based in fact.

roflmao

You illustrate that you lack comprehension about rational thinking, and you dont even realize it.

GUFFAWWW You don't even know the meaning of the words you use, yet you want to be an Internet psychiatrist.